Sobriety (off topic or not)?


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mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 12, 2010 - 10:41pm PT
Largo, Glad you joined in. I respect your opinion. Do you agree with most that addiction/alcoholism is a "disease"? Is there anyone in this room who thinks differently? Climbers opinions preferred. Just seeking knowledge.
To Hankster and the others fighting your fight, hang in there.

Boulder climber
Feb 13, 2010 - 12:03am PT
it is a disease,

they have isolated the gene i believe,

it takes about 6 months for the mind and body to get semi stable,

then another 6 months after that to feel half way normal.

your whole body changes, your metabolism is based on sugar from alcohol.

beer has nutrients, it is far better to stick to beer if you must drink,

the enzymes in the liver get all whacked, so you change from a liquid diet, to a normal diet,

alcohol is a poison, just like gasoline or chemo.

so you are literally drinking poison to catch a buzz, think about how primitive that is,
but we have wine snobs who think they are so cool, because it's just wine,
ok, whatever.

it ruins every kind of tissue in your body, which means All the organs,

and your brain of course.

so your thinking, and your body go thru slow changes when you quit.

you may notice a huge energy boost after you quit, most 30 day types drive everybody nuts with all that energy, it makes you seem crazy to the AA types, but you mellow out after about month 3 or 4.

at 6 months, you get a little attitude going, you think your joe cool sh#t cause you got it dicked, and you are gonna let everybody know about how good you are, and how bad booze is, blah blah blah.

but after about a year, you start to forget the issue entirely, and just learn to relax and smoke a big honkin bowl, and eat a whole box of cocoa puffs. because you can.

they have this hungry, angry lonely, tired thing also.

but that does not make since to me, because HALT is a way of life for most of us,

we get tired, so we sleep, we get hungry, so we eat.

but we have to get tired and hungry first, so screw that logic.

the way you deal with HALT is to be aware you are dealing with HALT, and just "as is" it.

that is borrowed from the church of seizmology,

they have a concept that says as soon as you identify something, you "as is" it.

after you as is something, it disappears from the mind.

so you "as is" being tired, or lonely, and it goes away.

this way you never have to freak out because you feel yourself in HALT mode.

you say, ok, i'm in danger mode, what?

get it?

and stay home if you feel the need to blow it.

one guy from santa cruz went out after 20 years, first time drunk,
and he killed someone with his car,

so from your living room to life in prison, all in 1 hour.

CYA, cover your ass , if you are a member of "The Club."

a 3,000 dollar fine will buy a ton of cab rides.

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 13, 2010 - 06:13am PT
Sprock - I apologize for my STFU remark. I wasn't getting where you were coming from. It seemed to me you were saying "You're pissing about alcohol? Damned Babies!" and suggesting something like 'alcohol addiction is to narcotics and kittens are to gigantic mountain lion type animals from back in the dinosaur ere. With wings."

Which would be helpful, no doubt, if people here are kicking heroin.

Anyway - again, I am sorry I misunderstood your effort. You definitely have some good suggestions about that toolkit.

Mountain Dog - The toolkit is being built by you already. It's not something only available through the rehab process. In the toolkit are all the suggestions people are writing here, and that you are hearing from other sources. All the experiences you have that are helping you build your life without drinking. This Supertopo thread is part of your toolkit!

If you have the days clean, no need for rehab at this point. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and finding your way. Not everyone gets clean through rehab(I didn't).

But, if you do find yourself relapsed, or relapsing, and the ways you have been trying don't seem to be doing it, then trying a rehab might be a good idea. They are good in that they have a medical facility to assist in the physical detox portion of the program, and then give you a buffer zone to live in while you get a start. That can be really helpful for someone who would otherwise be just feel too close to easy access of a slip. And they teach you some of the stuff you're learning about here and in your meetings and other places.

When I was first getting sober, I was a little jealous of some of the ones who'd come from rehabs. Some of them made it sound like a sleepaway camp, fer chrissakes! All the care and attention from others....I wanted that!

hahaha - I know that's not really the case, and I couldn't have afforded a rehab anyway, and I also didn't need it. But the rhabs can be a good choice for people. My mom did a couple, and they really were helpful, since she was going to be cast right back in the thick of things the moment she got out.(A family dependent on her, a serious dysfunctional dynamic in the family, and a family with no understanding as to what she was going through). And her rehabs weren't the cushy places I was imagining that I had missed out on....


Trad climber
Left Hand, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 13, 2010 - 08:22am PT
Largo, "30 day speed wobbles" is a great way to put it. You think as soon as you quit drinking everything is gonna just become great. What really happens is you get sober enough to realize what a total dick you were at Christmas and what a fool you made of yourself at Thanksgiving etc etc.

Thanks for the support and advice y'all. Largo I'll call you soon.


Trad climber
Feb 13, 2010 - 08:59am PT
Hank, you are a great athlete and a funny guy. I've seen firsthand how booze can destroy all that. I quit drinking some years ago, and man it feels so good to get up in the morning, or to rope up feeling super stoked and fresh! I can finally look at a bottle of beer or booze and see it for what it is, pure f*#king poison. Realize that and keep looking to the future. Hang in there bro, you are getting it done one day at a time.

Social climber
Oryay Ommamay
Feb 13, 2010 - 09:05am PT

"What really happens is you get sober enough to realize what a total dick you were at Christmas and what a fool you made of yourself at Thanksgiving"...

Trust me...

those memories will grow on you more and more as you get your head screwed on better...

Just DON'T let it drive you to DRINK...


And like Dr Sprock points out...

In time, perhaps you can BURN ONE and NOT go full bore back into the BOOZING WORLD...

I quit BOOZING over 16 years ago and manage to keep total control on the BURNING...

Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Feb 13, 2010 - 09:08am PT
Sobriety is never off topic. Ever.

Don't drink, go to meetings, get/call a local sponsor. Call Largo. Learn to appreciate the smell of rank coffee in church basements.

Just cos you climbed and jumped the sick shiz, then hit the pub while you were a drinking alcoholic, doesn't mean you can't climb and jump sick shiz and then go to a meeting as a sober alcoholic. Been there, done that, got the chips and medallions. Join the circle, dude.

The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Feb 13, 2010 - 09:40am PT
Now there's a word you don't see in use much...Well Done!"

Whaddaya mean? I have been calling this place Stupor Torpor for years and I want credit for coming up with the name.

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 13, 2010 - 09:43am PT
i realize and enjoy the dangers.

i wanna sprint toward that threshold, beyond which i'm wayward,
and then reel back and laugh.

cause i've the control, discipline and glee to tiptoe upon that edge and smirk as bits of my soul crumble and fall among the void.

its that peeling of the soul that i thrive around.

im on that edge folks. having guiness upon harps. pluckin the strings of sorrow.

so, cheer.

Boulder climber
Feb 13, 2010 - 09:58am PT
happigirl, no need to apologize, i expect a lot more flack than i get around here,

these clinics nowadays, they have valium, and seconal, and qualudes, well, maybe not ludes, but they have a whole ton of stuff they can give you so you don't start shaking like my ex girl.

never seen a body shake so much, for so long, really disgusting,

poor ol Preston had to kick the big H while in a jail cell, no fun.

my dad used to get hospitalized on a weekly basis,

back then, believe it or not, el camino hospital stuck a jack daniels IV in his arm, because that was the way they did it back then.

yeah, booze is a social drink, thats why it's legal.

weed makes you shack up by yourself and surf the net, so it is not considered socially exceptable.

that is why we are surrounded by booze, on every street corner, in every grocery store, gas station, everywhere you look, beer!

which is cool if your a drinker,

AA is the only church i trust nowadays, nice people who want to help,

but the coffee does suck,


the most important thing to remember:

It's not your fault!

please believe that,

making ammends is cool, but half the people you abuse know whats going on, so don't sweat the drunken holidays too bad,


Boulder climber
Feb 13, 2010 - 10:38am PT
you wanna hear a funny one, we were in our drunk class, and the black teacher, who was an ex heron addict, (black folks always pronounce it heron for some strange reason,)
anyway, the teacher asks "what are some of the properties of alcohol?"

and one of the guys says "social lubricant."

and poor ol derek, rest his soul, says "please don't talk about sex in this class..."

i guess you had to be there,

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 13, 2010 - 11:00am PT
Twisted crank said: "Join the circle, dude."

I can remember, years ago, when I had about two months and I was all skiddish and after a meeting I was running for my car and an old timer came up to me and said, "Don't leave us now." Those words saved me, I swear to God.

So, yeah. Join the circle.

mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 13, 2010 - 11:20am PT
To hear most of you guys stick up for AA helps give me some hope. I've never been into joining clubs or groups. Always felt like and wanted to stay an outsider. A do it yourselfer.
Now, I don't think I can solo this climb. It's good to know I have some peers out there to relate to.

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 13, 2010 - 11:21am PT
a while back this old-timer lady pulled me aside and told me "you don't have to do this alone."

took me a while to take that to heart, but today it serves me well.

Feb 13, 2010 - 11:24am PT
AA always stood for Attitude Adjustment.
Just for Today!

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 13, 2010 - 11:26am PT
the undeniable struggle though...

reality, at times, should be averted. as too much off it is stiffling.

how do you sober folk sidestep the poke in the ribs?

Mountain climber
GOP Convention
Feb 13, 2010 - 12:03pm PT
Saw the movie "Crazy Heart" last night, I really feel for those of you with a problem, please work hard to get healthy.

The evil one
Ricardo Cabeza

All Over.
Feb 13, 2010 - 03:06pm PT
Hank, thanks for bringing this up.

I, too, suffer from alcoholism.

I start, I stop. It all goes back and forth.

I don't post while under the influence as a matter of principle, but alcohol has ruined my life.
I feel helpless, beat down, and it kills me.

I was once a happy, fun loving person.

Now, I teach skiing and drink at night.

I feel confused,scared and stuck in a cycle I don't enjoy.

AA doesn't seem like the answer for me, but I'm running out of options, self control went out the window a while back.

Thanks for speaking about this, you're not alone.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Feb 13, 2010 - 04:39pm PT
Ricardo Cabeza.........

Hey Brandon,

I have no solutions but if you feel caught in a cycle, try to change the routine. This may allow some room for objectivity.

You don't have to "be" what's going on. You can change how you identify your self without feeling shame or failure. Email me if you'd like, I have big ears.


Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Feb 13, 2010 - 04:41pm PT
AA doesn't seem like the answer for me, but I'm running out of options, self control went out the window a while back.

There are LOTS of people who struggle with AA. More of them than the ones who take to it right off.
As they say, take what you need and leave the rest. It may not be a perfect system, but it has improved millions of lives in the last 60+ years. Not a doubt in my mind.
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