Sobriety (off topic or not)?


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Feb 12, 2010 - 10:04pm PT
Hank, I can't pretend to know you or your struggles, but my IMPRESSION of your skillz, badass-ness, wit, nature, kindness- has ZERO to do with drinking!

I wish you the best and thank you for these threads. They really help me to check in on my own habits and demons (I'm flirting with abstinence).

Trad climber
electric lady land
Feb 12, 2010 - 10:21pm PT
seven days off the sauce for me.

i'm right there w/you brother.

Boulder climber
Feb 12, 2010 - 10:27pm PT
just a hint, stay away from NA beer, it does have alcohol in it,

and it messes up your kidneys worse than regular beer.


Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 12, 2010 - 10:28pm PT
hankster, i've got four months this coming monday. it feels great.

you know what to do. stick it.

Boulder climber
Feb 12, 2010 - 10:45pm PT
and have a backup plan ready.

what if you run over somebody by accident tomorrow.

what will prevent you from running to the liquor store?

sobriety can be fragile, so beef it up a little and be ready.

mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 12, 2010 - 11:07pm PT
Sprock, Why do you persist to be an agitator and troll. I am open to cynicism but I want it to be productive. Most of your comments are irrelevant and moronic.

I know their are real climbers on this forum with insight on this issue. Please give us food for thought. I'm not looking for Big Book talk but your real feelings.

Boulder climber
Feb 12, 2010 - 11:18pm PT
the best thing to read in the big book are the stories in the back.

the deal is, sh#t happens all the time,

and if something happens while you are trying to kick, it can set you right back on your ass.

so all that work, all those meetings, down the drain.

and every stinkin time i relapse, i seem to really blow it,

this is because the tolerance is not there, but the desire is ten fold.

so, the most important time in your life, as far as sobriety is concerned, is that moment where you can make it, or break it.

so, just understand that you are going to be tested, perhaps in a rather rude way, so if you are barely hangin, you need to beef up your support,

that way, you avoid the excess baggage that you do not want to claim.

pip the dog

Mountain climber
planet dogboy
Feb 12, 2010 - 11:19pm PT
good on you, caylor. 30 days sober is the best anyone has ever done in 30 days.

stay with it, great one. one pitch at a time.

^,,^ (michael)

Boulder climber
Feb 12, 2010 - 11:31pm PT
ok, if youve been to just 1 meeting
you heard the opening,

"cunning, baffling..."

and all that dr bill crap from the 50's.

well, that wasn't good enuff for me, being the scientific type.

so, i started to figure out what he was talikng about,

it is a big puzzle, and many of the pieces are missing,

but a few ones that i Think i have figured out>,

the reason you are not to have one drop is because if you do,

the subconcious makes a map of that event, the pleasure, the taste, all the sensations from the libations.

now, you forget that they are still there, and then, one day,
you happen to stimulate that memory, from some outside source that you might not even bee aware of, and the next thing you know, you are running to the store.

this memory could be a week old, it could be 20 years old, but it is still there.
maybe a whole bunch of them are still there.
so you have to keep your guard up and do some self analysis as to what type of stimilus-response mechanisms you are up against,
and not giving in to them,

the way to do this is to try and recount all the times you had a fond memory of drinking, and separate all those files into a directory where they will not bother the part of the brain that is dealing with daily survival.

then, you try and think of ways that these memories could be triggered, maybe a waft of beer goes by your nose,
maybe you see a girl that looks just like the one you got lucky with in the bar,
all this stuff is working, but you are not aware of it.
so just realizing this mechanism is there is a big part of beating the alcohol trap.

so baffling?

not really. just a simple subconcious stim/resp mech.
been there for years.

another thing to watch out for is what electrical geeks call positive feedback.

this is a self perpetuating circuit where a small part of the output signal is applied to the input of the circuit, in such a way (in phase) that it causes more amplification.
this cycle repeats itself until you have oscillation, or feedback.

alcohol has the same circuit already built in,

as soon as you pick up the bottle again, your good judgment is the first thing that gets wiped from the brain cells.

so any chance you had of quitting, well, the Devil has made sure that it was the first thing to go, along with moderation.

this is another really good reason to never have "just one."

because once you start that feedback loop circuit in your brain, you may as well check into the hospital and save yourself the 6 months of torture.

so all this demon alcohol crap really has a logical explanation,

nothing is worse than trying to deal with a problem you do not understand,it just makes it that much tougher.

so i figure if you know whats really going on, you are ahead of the curve a bit,

Big Wall climber
Feb 12, 2010 - 11:55pm PT
If nothing else will keep you sober, this will.

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Feb 13, 2010 - 12:03am PT

Now there's a word you don't see in use much...Well Done!
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 13, 2010 - 12:49am PT
Sprock, Your last two posts were more useful to me. Your being more realistic. I want to know more about how the mind works in regards to addiction. I've heard a few people in meetings mention a "toolkit" that helps them deal with the "cunning and baffling" compulsion and obsession. I think they got their "toolkit" in rehab but I don't want to go there.

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 13, 2010 - 01:06am PT
It helps to remember that drinking is only a symptom of "alcholism." Once you quite drinking, you have to address why you were drinking in the first place, and that always involves a "cunning and baffling" cosmos of psychological, physical and spiritual challenges.

Let's keep the good energy going for Hank. Those 30-day speed wobbles can get pretty intense.

mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 13, 2010 - 01:41am PT
Largo, Glad you joined in. I respect your opinion. Do you agree with most that addiction/alcoholism is a "disease"? Is there anyone in this room who thinks differently? Climbers opinions preferred. Just seeking knowledge.
To Hankster and the others fighting your fight, hang in there.

Boulder climber
Feb 13, 2010 - 03:03am PT
it is a disease,

they have isolated the gene i believe,

it takes about 6 months for the mind and body to get semi stable,

then another 6 months after that to feel half way normal.

your whole body changes, your metabolism is based on sugar from alcohol.

beer has nutrients, it is far better to stick to beer if you must drink,

the enzymes in the liver get all whacked, so you change from a liquid diet, to a normal diet,

alcohol is a poison, just like gasoline or chemo.

so you are literally drinking poison to catch a buzz, think about how primitive that is,
but we have wine snobs who think they are so cool, because it's just wine,
ok, whatever.

it ruins every kind of tissue in your body, which means All the organs,

and your brain of course.

so your thinking, and your body go thru slow changes when you quit.

you may notice a huge energy boost after you quit, most 30 day types drive everybody nuts with all that energy, it makes you seem crazy to the AA types, but you mellow out after about month 3 or 4.

at 6 months, you get a little attitude going, you think your joe cool sh#t cause you got it dicked, and you are gonna let everybody know about how good you are, and how bad booze is, blah blah blah.

but after about a year, you start to forget the issue entirely, and just learn to relax and smoke a big honkin bowl, and eat a whole box of cocoa puffs. because you can.

they have this hungry, angry lonely, tired thing also.

but that does not make since to me, because HALT is a way of life for most of us,

we get tired, so we sleep, we get hungry, so we eat.

but we have to get tired and hungry first, so screw that logic.

the way you deal with HALT is to be aware you are dealing with HALT, and just "as is" it.

that is borrowed from the church of seizmology,

they have a concept that says as soon as you identify something, you "as is" it.

after you as is something, it disappears from the mind.

so you "as is" being tired, or lonely, and it goes away.

this way you never have to freak out because you feel yourself in HALT mode.

you say, ok, i'm in danger mode, what?

get it?

and stay home if you feel the need to blow it.

one guy from santa cruz went out after 20 years, first time drunk,
and he killed someone with his car,

so from your living room to life in prison, all in 1 hour.

CYA, cover your ass , if you are a member of "The Club."

a 3,000 dollar fine will buy a ton of cab rides.

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 13, 2010 - 09:13am PT
Sprock - I apologize for my STFU remark. I wasn't getting where you were coming from. It seemed to me you were saying "You're pissing about alcohol? Damned Babies!" and suggesting something like 'alcohol addiction is to narcotics and kittens are to gigantic mountain lion type animals from back in the dinosaur ere. With wings."

Which would be helpful, no doubt, if people here are kicking heroin.

Anyway - again, I am sorry I misunderstood your effort. You definitely have some good suggestions about that toolkit.

Mountain Dog - The toolkit is being built by you already. It's not something only available through the rehab process. In the toolkit are all the suggestions people are writing here, and that you are hearing from other sources. All the experiences you have that are helping you build your life without drinking. This Supertopo thread is part of your toolkit!

If you have the days clean, no need for rehab at this point. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and finding your way. Not everyone gets clean through rehab(I didn't).

But, if you do find yourself relapsed, or relapsing, and the ways you have been trying don't seem to be doing it, then trying a rehab might be a good idea. They are good in that they have a medical facility to assist in the physical detox portion of the program, and then give you a buffer zone to live in while you get a start. That can be really helpful for someone who would otherwise be just feel too close to easy access of a slip. And they teach you some of the stuff you're learning about here and in your meetings and other places.

When I was first getting sober, I was a little jealous of some of the ones who'd come from rehabs. Some of them made it sound like a sleepaway camp, fer chrissakes! All the care and attention from others....I wanted that!

hahaha - I know that's not really the case, and I couldn't have afforded a rehab anyway, and I also didn't need it. But the rhabs can be a good choice for people. My mom did a couple, and they really were helpful, since she was going to be cast right back in the thick of things the moment she got out.(A family dependent on her, a serious dysfunctional dynamic in the family, and a family with no understanding as to what she was going through). And her rehabs weren't the cushy places I was imagining that I had missed out on....


Trad climber
Feb 13, 2010 - 11:59am PT
Hank, you are a great athlete and a funny guy. I've seen firsthand how booze can destroy all that. I quit drinking some years ago, and man it feels so good to get up in the morning, or to rope up feeling super stoked and fresh! I can finally look at a bottle of beer or booze and see it for what it is, pure f*#king poison. Realize that and keep looking to the future. Hang in there bro, you are getting it done one day at a time.

Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Feb 13, 2010 - 12:08pm PT
Sobriety is never off topic. Ever.

Don't drink, go to meetings, get/call a local sponsor. Call Largo. Learn to appreciate the smell of rank coffee in church basements.

Just cos you climbed and jumped the sick shiz, then hit the pub while you were a drinking alcoholic, doesn't mean you can't climb and jump sick shiz and then go to a meeting as a sober alcoholic. Been there, done that, got the chips and medallions. Join the circle, dude.

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 13, 2010 - 12:43pm PT
i realize and enjoy the dangers.

i wanna sprint toward that threshold, beyond which i'm wayward,
and then reel back and laugh.

cause i've the control, discipline and glee to tiptoe upon that edge and smirk as bits of my soul crumble and fall among the void.

its that peeling of the soul that i thrive around.

im on that edge folks. having guiness upon harps. pluckin the strings of sorrow.

so, cheer.

Boulder climber
Feb 13, 2010 - 12:58pm PT
happigirl, no need to apologize, i expect a lot more flack than i get around here,

these clinics nowadays, they have valium, and seconal, and qualudes, well, maybe not ludes, but they have a whole ton of stuff they can give you so you don't start shaking like my ex girl.

never seen a body shake so much, for so long, really disgusting,

poor ol Preston had to kick the big H while in a jail cell, no fun.

my dad used to get hospitalized on a weekly basis,

back then, believe it or not, el camino hospital stuck a jack daniels IV in his arm, because that was the way they did it back then.

yeah, booze is a social drink, thats why it's legal.

weed makes you shack up by yourself and surf the net, so it is not considered socially exceptable.

that is why we are surrounded by booze, on every street corner, in every grocery store, gas station, everywhere you look, beer!

which is cool if your a drinker,

AA is the only church i trust nowadays, nice people who want to help,

but the coffee does suck,


the most important thing to remember:

It's not your fault!

please believe that,

making ammends is cool, but half the people you abuse know whats going on, so don't sweat the drunken holidays too bad,

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