Sobriety (off topic or not)?


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Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 10, 2014 - 07:41pm PT

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 23, 2014 - 08:37am PT
at the edge of the vagina,
where pink fades to punk;
where reality rises from the ashes of lust;
at the threshold between arid and dank climes,

i see the same line.
the one that separates my drunk warrior from his sober coward.

and now i'm dragging myself down the coarse course of life,
"off the white dashed line,
along the black, windswept road" (mother hips.)

excessive clarity is a clown
and i'm the core of his act;
the line of his punch;
the butt of his jokes.

i got absolute control over every
life-aspect that surrenders to me.

marriage? secure.
jobs? bomber.
lifestyle? free and just-shy-of-easy.
parenting? improving.

so i'll plow this path for the time being.
upholding my chin, while peers admire my strides;

i and my progress are the subject of
dinner-time conversations all about my town.

my gaze though, the one that i cast upon
those parents of the play-yard children;
the one that is not recently hung-over;
the one that reports my adoration of struggle,
is cantilevered beyond my eyes
and some secrets comprise the back span
of that gaze - holding it up for the time
being as it is subject to life-loads.

and those little secrets i'm building every day.
and everything present is temporary.
everything that is, enjoys the blessing of entropy.

might is in my future.
and i'll be pleasantly lost once again in pink landscapes
for an extended duration
as i undo the current overload of
of poise and well being.

sobriety, for me,
is nothing more than a bridge between freedoms.
but the bridge is a plank,
cantilevered, like my stare;
bolted down in my past,
and in my future ends over an attractive abyss.

another nickname

Social climber
Yazoo Ms
Jul 23, 2014 - 09:27am PT
"The success rate of AA is between 5 and 10 percent."

"But it's harmful to the 90 percent who don't do well. And it's harmful for several important reasons. One of them is that everyone believes that AA is the right treatment. AA is never wrong, according to AA. If you fail in AA, it's you that's failed."

--Dr. Lance Dodes, Harvard Medical School

The large majority of people who stop drinking do so without AA or medical help. If AA works for you then fine, but as a contrarian, I resent its self-proclaimed dominance and tendency toward self-righteousness.


Jul 23, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
Stastically, about 5% of people who quit drinking once never drink again.

Of the rest, about a third will stop after a few tries, a third will have some success but never really stop, and the remainder will fail miserably for the rest of their lives.

AA is close to a century old. It works for some folks, not at all for many others. It begs for a more scientifically proven alternative - AA has zero science behind it. Relying on peer pressure to keep the demons at bay can a be a spotty proposition. A small number of people who are very close can make a difference - but a whole bunch of AA buddies who really aren't that close?

The 'make amends' step can be a disaster for those on the other end. That girlfriend from a decade ago? Newsflash: She really doesn't want to hear from you. The 'higher power' thing turns an increasingly larger non-religious population off before they even get in the door, even if many AA meetings are not actually religious at all.

Knowledge that does not falsely create an US v THEM construct (Drunks v normies, blah blah) can offer less isolating, more proven approaches. Rational Emotive Therapy (recognizing triggers to relapse and acting accordingly), Choice Theory, and developing a life plan (to fill the hole of not drinking) can be particularly effective none pharmaceutical methods for getting off high center.

Early public education with regards to detecting a propensity for addiction early in life is not nearly as robust or ubiquitous as it should be, and that's a shame.

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 23, 2014 - 12:56pm PT
"The success rate of AA is between 5 and 10 percent."

Not many people climb, either.....

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jul 23, 2014 - 01:34pm PT
The first step - whether it is 12 step or a different path - is the most critical. Life is never a success only journey. I think this thread was meant to be supportive. Perhpas intentions are good. I'd rather see additional insight offered than merely criticizing one path that was not 100% effective the first time. When it comes to physical addiction, there isn't a 100% effective path for all. Add to the possible solution set.
Jebus H Bomz

Peavine Basecamp
Jul 23, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
I'm not an AA guy, but does that success rate take into account the not insignificant number of people who are court ordered to attend meetings?

That's still a fair percentage of presumably committed alcoholics who will not be on the roads, in the ER, in the jails.... Not that I don't believe this subject should be examined with a critical eye, and more developments in line with Tvash's notions.

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 23, 2014 - 05:29pm PT
I'm not an AA guy either, but I think it's a mistake to disregard it because it's no an absolute success. Nothing is gaurantied, ever! But AA works for a lot of people and has something to offer, everybody. It offers a useful group of insights and alternate perspectives. Anyone struggling with anything can pick up some ideas from it.

I think people get in trouble when they expect it to automatically take care of them. It won't. Whether it works for you or not, it's YOU that has to make the decision to make a change. It can however, offer a support group of people struggling with a similar decision. It can help in other ways as well.

For many people, it's a big part of their recovery effort. It helps them find what they need to find inside themselves to make the change. Just because most people need to find more to complete the mosaic that they need is not a good reason to harsh on something that is a useful "step" for so many.
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