Sobriety (off topic or not)?

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Hankster

Trad climber
Left Hand, CO
Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 12, 2010 - 01:36pm PT
Tomorrow night, good lord willing and the creek don't rise, I'll be at a month. I did 2 years and 2 months with no problems, until I relapsed. F*#k has it been hard this time around.

I'm the Hankster, I'm supposed to climb sick sh#t and the hit the pub and get faced for ever. At 40 years old, this style is just not that glamorous anymore. All the cool pictures on the Taco have everyone holding a beer. I can't be one of them and it kills me.

I've been climbing hard for 27 years and drinking was always apart of the scene, when did it all change? No DUI's, No job loss, just shame at unacceptable behavior. F*#k.

I'm going to pick up my chip Sunday morning for 1 month, it just feels so empty somehow. I mean, once you get to 1 month, who friggin cares? Not looking for sympathy, it's my deal. I just needed to get this off my back.

Now back to politics and religion!

Caylor
nutjob

Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
Feb 12, 2010 - 01:42pm PT
Hank, you've already proven that you are a fear-fighting monster on rock and jumping off of rocks, buildings, etc....

Now you're taking it to the next level and facing that primal fear of letting go of an identity that has helped you survive in the past (or at least it seemed like it helped) but now it doesn't serve your needs. Keep charging. You'll win as long as you keep getting up when you fall down!

Everyone who thinks you are cool because you fit a certain image is not your friend. They won't be there for you when you are old and unglamorous and in need. You have the chance now to find out who your real friends are, and appreciate them for who and what they are. Consider the best part of your life still ahead of you. The part where you can authentically connect to people around you without wearing a mask, where your sense of self is a rock-solid anchor based on what is inside of you, and not blowing in the wind of people's whimsical adorations. Thus speaketh nutjob, internet mask-wearer learning every day how to have less of a mask in real life.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Feb 12, 2010 - 01:45pm PT
Hang in there Hank, it's worth it.

I really like the fancy coins that you can buy for yourself.

I figured, hey I'm saving a few hundred a month on booze, why not treat myself to a 22 dollar coin?


bmacd

Trad climber
Beautiful BC
Feb 12, 2010 - 01:47pm PT
Booze is for animals ...

Evolution includes forgiving oneself.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Feb 12, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
Someone (maybe BVB? Not sure) a while back posted a note similar to yours, but said that one upside of the whole deal was that after a relatively short time off the sauce, his climbing improved significantly.

Sexual appetite and performance supposedly increase as well. But we'll wait to hear from you on that one.

Take it a day at a time, and hang in there.
apogee

climber
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:01pm PT
My wife is a therapist in a substance treatment facility at a nearby hospital, and has witnessed and experienced first hand the challenges you are facing. The physical impacts of alcohol are tough, but perhaps the hardest part is the re-establishing of one's identity without alchohol, and dealing with constant social challenges of being around people you have known for years while being sober, and without alcohol as common denominator.

Best of luck to you, Hank- you are on a most difficult path, but you are sure to have the skills and strength to navigate it.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:01pm PT
booze is not the glue of climbing and base, find that other thing that is the glue for you, and that will be your focus.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:04pm PT
at this point in my life: father of two sweet young lassies, workafukin-holic, sporadic nomad, bill payer, home maker,
and just generally confused,

booze gets me from point a to infinity in manner just skewed.

and i like it.

at 35 im holdin up well thus far.
skandanavian genes god bless them!

good luck with your trip hank.
Park Rat

Social climber
CA, UT,CT,FL
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:05pm PT
Hank,

Warren Harding did not want to be an alcoholic, he felt powerless to stop drinking.

Late in life he said.

"Mommas, don’t let your babies grow up to be winos."

You can make it, hang in there! There is a lot of support here.

All my best to you.

Susie
nature

climber
Tucson, AZ
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:05pm PT
IF you say it sucks then it does. So don't say it sucks and it won't.
JuanDeFuca

Big Wall climber
Peenemunde
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:07pm PT
Good Luck Caylor. I have seen so many lives destroyed by Alcohol. You are on the right path and I will pray for you.

Juan
Dirka

Trad climber
SF
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:09pm PT
You can do it hank! Just focus on the reasons for quiteing and forget about all the rest. Proud of you thus far.
TKingsbury

Trad climber
MT
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:09pm PT
You post some very cool pictures Hank, as well as very interesting thoughts.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:10pm PT
It's not true that the cool photos show people with beer/alcohol in their hands. Go back and look again. Show yourself that such photos are rare. Much more photos showing fun without beer/alcohol in hand.

Congrats on the one month. It's something to be proud of.

I think you look way damn cool without the beer.
tarek

climber
berkeley
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:11pm PT
Hank, your post made me think of what Kevin Fosburg wrote here once in reference to Walt Shipley (not in ref to alcohol). It's one of the few things I've read on ST that I've kept in mind:

"There is another challenge though that I'm sure Walt would not hesitate to affirm if he were around, the challenge of coming down from that ineffable space and living our lives in a way that is of use to those we love. I think it's possible to use the kind of brave passion Walt so uniquely embodied and bring it to bear on our daily lives in a creative non-self-destructive way."

best of luck, and great work so far. I see the destructiveness of alcohol all the time in my work.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:13pm PT
I have heard people say that their relapse really f*#ked with what some refer to as "the gift of sobriety."

I think it's possibly because the first time one gets sober, it can be like a real rollercoaster ride, amazing, frightening, if nothing else - intense. I remember at 90 days feeling as if I was LIVING on a tightrope; that was how precariously in balance my sober life was.... And of course, one day at a time that experience continues.

So long as you don't pick up.

From hearing what others who have gotten sober a second, third or however many times, it seems like the thing they had in common was an awareness that all the sh#t is right there, around the corner, waiting. One drink away. On stinking drink. And you're back at square one. F*#k.

And that takes some of the shine off that whole One Day At a Time idea.


Well - I don't know what to say. I did have a 1-year period of not drinking just before I moved to New York. But it wasn't a "sobriety" thing. I had stopped drinking, but didn't know anything else, hadn't gotten "the gift". So when I started drinking again, it wasn't any issue to me.

Then I got sober, and it has stuck. So far. I have heard enough people in your boat to know I had best do what I can to try to keep it up. I don't have much discipline....and it's not hard for me to imagine how dismal the outlook might be bouncing back and forth, or just staying drinking.

One thing to consider is that, in that time of sobriety that you had, you may not have "turned the corner" and seen what your life may be with real sobriety as a foundation. If that is the case, you CAN make that happen. The way to do that is through service. The coffee commitment, reaching out to the newcomer, early to the meeting and setting up the chairs. All that crap. There's a secret that gets shown in the service crap; sort of like an AA secret handshake. Nobody will tell you what this is - so don't bother asking. But you will know it when it happens...

Along with service, the suggestions I can make would be:
 Keep a good eye on what the hell it looks like to be drunk and what happens to drunks - because you AIN'T DRUNK RIGHT NOW and you want to stay that way. Go along with others to some of those institutions meetings(jails, mental hospitals, homeless shelters).
 To share at meetings about the "one month; no one cares after that" feeling.
 Go up to the "I'm so and so and this is my first meeting" people at each meeting. Stick out your hand and welcome them. They're scared, pissed off, confused, all sorts of things. And you know how they feel. They will appreciate your kindness. Even if it's just a gruff "Hey, welcome. Keep coming back. Do you have a meeting book yet?"
 Make the 90 Days a worthwhile goal to go for. Here in NY a person can qualify after 90 days. DAMNED RIGHT it is fun to make people listen to your blather(instead of having to listen to theirs!).

Dude - everything we searched for in drinking is there, available for us through the sacrifice of that very substance. And as corny or "f*#k you and your shiny sobriety, happiegrrrl" as it may sound, I absolutely promise you that this is the truth.

It's there - just down the road. Just ahead, around some corners. Sometimes a lot of corners...but it is there. I absolutely promise you this. But you have to keep walking TOWARD the light.

And while you're walking, hold the lantern up so the poor suckers behind you can see the path. They need your help.
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:24pm PT
Hank, I do not know you, but I do know what ails you. I dare you to seek the small phrase and story in the literature that speaks of focus. Specifically on the problem and solution. Ask when you arrive early(hint), and then not only read it, live it and great things can result. I would also put a little time in listening to the one who knows where it is right off the top of their head.

Been there, done that. Man it was such a long time ago. Wouldn't change a thing either. It'll pass, just like it always does.

Bob
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 12, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
my scandanavian gremlins got no complaints yet.
i still wrestle saplings outta the ground bare handed (6" tall or less).

my heart, though, is issuing unfamiliar sounds... something about questioning
whether those nectars are medicinal, or fluid illness.

i got no answers here. the whispers between your ears are not mine.
that's why we all dance so funny.
luggi

Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
Feb 12, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
Caylor...we all have our demons in all different forms...probs for recognizing it...and dealing with it. There are a lot of people that don't have the courage to do what you are doing, the easy sh^t is climbing. Life is too short to live it looking through the bottom of the bottle. Post anytime when you feel that urge.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 12, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
If your tempted to take that first drink, call me immediately, day or night. That's all you have to do for the moment - avoid that first drink. And go to meetings.

JL
Jingy

Social climber
Nowhere
Feb 12, 2010 - 03:26pm PT
here's to hoping for the best outcome for Hankster...

It's a daily thing.. just remember to live in the moment, but also that you have a future that inclues many good times to be had with friends on and off the rock, and family.

Good luck.... one day at a time
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 12, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
hank,
re-reading your original post, you are telling tale of the evolution of your's self.
from my account, this is a quite dynamic existence. things that made sense before, utterly befuddle me today.

and i know that i cant begin to expect what will fill my gob and heart tomorrow. its a great journey, for all the change.

it sounds like your soul is just ready to move on. don't look back and hold those times with envy. that sucks. you got tomorrow to look forward to - and all of its enjoyable wobbles.

let today be the threshold between the past and... yep.
Tea

Trad climber
Behind the Zion Curtain
Feb 12, 2010 - 03:47pm PT
hang tough Hank! You can do it!

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 12, 2010 - 03:50pm PT
Hang in there, Hank. Good luck and God bless!
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Feb 12, 2010 - 03:56pm PT
One of the greatest gifts in my life was someone else's sobriety.

As much as I ever hold anyone in my athiest prayers, I notice when one of you 'topians who has posted about getting sober posts something...anything. I see you here, and I'm hoping that you're able to make sobriety work out for yourselves in this crazy community where so many of our friends can't or won't make the change even when the party sucks more than it doesn't.

It might seem like no one cares that you're sober after a month, but it's probably a very rare bird for whom that is actually true.

Internet love to you.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Feb 12, 2010 - 04:06pm PT
Good luck bro. Stay strong!
PP

Trad climber
SF,CA
Feb 12, 2010 - 04:14pm PT
good work Hank ! I made it through 1 night last night and was really excited. I knew I was going to sleep better feel better in the morning and basically get off on the right foot. hoping to make it through two nights but being friday night could be harder but it would be nice to get the weekend off to a good start rather than a mild hangover. It is becoming clearer to me that even minor amounts of booze make it alot harder to do the things I really want to do with my life.
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 12, 2010 - 05:35pm PT
Hankster thank you so much for this thread! I have been contemplating starting a thread called "Climber As Alcoholic/Addict" On topic indeed. We all know them and some of us are them. I personally have been fighting hard but losing the battle right now. I just went out again after 7 days beer and pot free. My best is 60 days.
I can really relate to your situation. Same age and lifestyle. Witch is why I feel like such an outsider at meetings. I've never met one of our "tribe" at one. It's hard to picture myself at a campfire in Camp 4 or Hidden Valley without a beer and pipe. Or any place else for that matter. These things have always been a part of my chosen "counterculture" lifestyle which climbing used to fit into so well. Now the stuff that gave life richness is crushing me.
Being agnostic is not making it any easier. What are your thoughts on prayer? Should I go through the motions even if I'm a skeptic?
Chief

climber
Feb 12, 2010 - 05:47pm PT
Way to go Hank!

I never met a beer I didn't like and have lived by Benjamin Franklin's axiom,"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
It does get a bit old after a decade or two though and you can find yourself way downhill on a slippery slope if you're not careful.
First thirty days are the toughest and you're in there man.
Best, hang in there.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 12, 2010 - 05:51pm PT
tis the golden depths of debauchery:

an all knight binge lands you kneeling at the edge of your daughters' bed, beholding the best beauty, that is a sleeping child.

the youngest, makalu, wakes slightly sharing her eyes with you. when she sees dad near, she smiles and says, i love you daddy.

the resulting headwind is so perfectly sweet, that you cannot face it.

you turn and leave the room.
...
i steal the last bowl of alphabet cereal. with rice milk this morning.
i rearange the letters so that my first spoonful reads, "chi"
when that fails to revive my verve,
i tilt another meaty beer saluting the wayward path.
...
we don't need no stinking heaven. we conduct our song just fine in hell.
...
i am too sad to look at this world with klean eyes.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 12, 2010 - 07:41pm PT
Good Luck on Day Two, PP.

Mountain Dog - I have a friend who came to AA about a month after me. He was Atheist, and of course the Higher Power thing was a conundrum for him.

Luckily, he was also desperate.....

As the literature says, "a God of YOUR understanding."

My friend, Adam, found a little plastic piggy on the sidewalk. It was some sort of trinket, probably from a gumball machine. Well - he slung a little string around that pig and made him into a key ring or something. And the pig was his Higher Power.

It was one part facetiousness, another part desperation(as already mentioned), and mixed with a little willingness to give it a shot. He'd friggin' tried everything else he could come up with already.

It worked for him. Worked quite well. He's 13 plus years sober now, and though he's switched to being Agnostic, he doesn't feel he compromised his ideals in any way having that Higher Power Piggy.

Others have chosen trees, dollar bills, and any number of totems to be their HP.



Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 12, 2010 - 08:28pm PT
booze is the poor man's heroin,

if you really want to feel sorry for yourself, get into the Big H.

then do 5 years in the big house.

beer? give me a break, will ya?

you guys are gettin all heavy over too much beer?

c'mon man, quit yankin my chain.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Feb 12, 2010 - 08:30pm PT
DrSprock, the new rokjox?
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 12, 2010 - 08:31pm PT
naw, just bs as usual, can't you tell?

if you don't know me by now...

hows that somg go?
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 12, 2010 - 08:34pm PT
if you want to read about someone with a Real problem,

not to make you feel wimpy or anything, you must read this:

http://www.prestonhubbard.com/My%20Story.htm
Robb

Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
Feb 12, 2010 - 08:46pm PT
Hankster,
I'll stay dry if you will. Remember every day we stay sober, it makes us stronger.
Hang tough bro,
Robb


PS: If it gets really bad, shoot me an email.
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 12, 2010 - 08:48pm PT
Sprock don't be a dick. We all react to different chemicals in our own way, and we all have our personal favorites. Many a hard man has been brought down by alcohol. I keep thinking of an old friend, the late Ralliegh Collins. He wasn't a junkie, he drank. To much sex brought Tiger Woods down.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 12, 2010 - 09:30pm PT
Dr. Sprock - I mean this in the nicest possible way, but STFU.

Fogarty

climber
BITD
Feb 12, 2010 - 09:53pm PT
Hank, Congratulations on your sobrity, I have 42 days, this is the longest for me since I was maybe sixteen. Best of luck to all of us on this journey.

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 12, 2010 - 09:58pm PT
ok, alright, your right, it's all relative,

and no sympathy is a bad way to treat addicts.

that link story is too long anyway.

i detect that i need a more mainstream post, here we go:

poor sprock, pour sprock a drink,

AA is great, but only 1 out of 37 addicts will die sober.

those are really bad odds.

so, the program is not perfect.

it tends to leave one with a constant craving that has to be supressed.

that is why the real dicks are people with 20 or more years sober.

they have been fighting their own demon for 20 years, and it is still there,

me? i use the substitution technique, frowned upon by AA, but it works for me,

is that ok with you cyber heads that i do not know from Adam?

who is now dead, the last of the Bonanza cast, who was also a meth head?

just kiddin...


if that post is not mamby pamby enuff, let me know and i can dumb it down into a mother teresa type routine.

phillygoat

climber
portland,
Feb 12, 2010 - 10:04pm PT
Hank, I can't pretend to know you or your struggles, but my IMPRESSION of your skillz, badass-ness, wit, nature, kindness- has ZERO to do with drinking!

I wish you the best and thank you for these threads. They really help me to check in on my own habits and demons (I'm flirting with abstinence).
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Feb 12, 2010 - 10:21pm PT
seven days off the sauce for me.

i'm right there w/you brother.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 12, 2010 - 10:27pm PT
just a hint, stay away from NA beer, it does have alcohol in it,

and it messes up your kidneys worse than regular beer.

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 12, 2010 - 10:28pm PT
hankster, i've got four months this coming monday. it feels great.

you know what to do. stick it.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 12, 2010 - 10:45pm PT
and have a backup plan ready.

what if you run over somebody by accident tomorrow.

what will prevent you from running to the liquor store?

sobriety can be fragile, so beef it up a little and be ready.

mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 12, 2010 - 11:07pm PT
Sprock, Why do you persist to be an agitator and troll. I am open to cynicism but I want it to be productive. Most of your comments are irrelevant and moronic.

I know their are real climbers on this forum with insight on this issue. Please give us food for thought. I'm not looking for Big Book talk but your real feelings.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 12, 2010 - 11:18pm PT
the best thing to read in the big book are the stories in the back.

the deal is, sh#t happens all the time,

and if something happens while you are trying to kick, it can set you right back on your ass.

so all that work, all those meetings, down the drain.

and every stinkin time i relapse, i seem to really blow it,

this is because the tolerance is not there, but the desire is ten fold.

so, the most important time in your life, as far as sobriety is concerned, is that moment where you can make it, or break it.

so, just understand that you are going to be tested, perhaps in a rather rude way, so if you are barely hangin, you need to beef up your support,

that way, you avoid the excess baggage that you do not want to claim.




pip the dog

Mountain climber
planet dogboy
Feb 12, 2010 - 11:19pm PT
good on you, caylor. 30 days sober is the best anyone has ever done in 30 days.

stay with it, great one. one pitch at a time.

^,,^ (michael)
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 12, 2010 - 11:31pm PT
ok, if youve been to just 1 meeting
you heard the opening,

"cunning, baffling..."

and all that dr bill crap from the 50's.

well, that wasn't good enuff for me, being the scientific type.

so, i started to figure out what he was talikng about,

it is a big puzzle, and many of the pieces are missing,

but a few ones that i Think i have figured out>,

the reason you are not to have one drop is because if you do,

the subconcious makes a map of that event, the pleasure, the taste, all the sensations from the libations.

now, you forget that they are still there, and then, one day,
you happen to stimulate that memory, from some outside source that you might not even bee aware of, and the next thing you know, you are running to the store.

this memory could be a week old, it could be 20 years old, but it is still there.
maybe a whole bunch of them are still there.
so you have to keep your guard up and do some self analysis as to what type of stimilus-response mechanisms you are up against,
and not giving in to them,

the way to do this is to try and recount all the times you had a fond memory of drinking, and separate all those files into a directory where they will not bother the part of the brain that is dealing with daily survival.

then, you try and think of ways that these memories could be triggered, maybe a waft of beer goes by your nose,
maybe you see a girl that looks just like the one you got lucky with in the bar,
all this stuff is working, but you are not aware of it.
so just realizing this mechanism is there is a big part of beating the alcohol trap.

so baffling?

not really. just a simple subconcious stim/resp mech.
been there for years.


another thing to watch out for is what electrical geeks call positive feedback.

this is a self perpetuating circuit where a small part of the output signal is applied to the input of the circuit, in such a way (in phase) that it causes more amplification.
this cycle repeats itself until you have oscillation, or feedback.

alcohol has the same circuit already built in,

as soon as you pick up the bottle again, your good judgment is the first thing that gets wiped from the brain cells.

so any chance you had of quitting, well, the Devil has made sure that it was the first thing to go, along with moderation.

this is another really good reason to never have "just one."

because once you start that feedback loop circuit in your brain, you may as well check into the hospital and save yourself the 6 months of torture.

so all this demon alcohol crap really has a logical explanation,

nothing is worse than trying to deal with a problem you do not understand,it just makes it that much tougher.

so i figure if you know whats really going on, you are ahead of the curve a bit,
enjoimx

Big Wall climber
SLO Cal
Feb 12, 2010 - 11:55pm PT
If nothing else will keep you sober, this will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZmDWltBziM&NR=1
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Feb 13, 2010 - 12:03am PT
Tami,

Torpor
Now there's a word you don't see in use much...Well Done!
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 13, 2010 - 12:49am PT
Sprock, Your last two posts were more useful to me. Your being more realistic. I want to know more about how the mind works in regards to addiction. I've heard a few people in meetings mention a "toolkit" that helps them deal with the "cunning and baffling" compulsion and obsession. I think they got their "toolkit" in rehab but I don't want to go there.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 13, 2010 - 01:06am PT
It helps to remember that drinking is only a symptom of "alcholism." Once you quite drinking, you have to address why you were drinking in the first place, and that always involves a "cunning and baffling" cosmos of psychological, physical and spiritual challenges.

Let's keep the good energy going for Hank. Those 30-day speed wobbles can get pretty intense.

JL
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 13, 2010 - 01:41am PT
Largo, Glad you joined in. I respect your opinion. Do you agree with most that addiction/alcoholism is a "disease"? Is there anyone in this room who thinks differently? Climbers opinions preferred. Just seeking knowledge.
To Hankster and the others fighting your fight, hang in there.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 13, 2010 - 03:03am PT
it is a disease,

they have isolated the gene i believe,

it takes about 6 months for the mind and body to get semi stable,

then another 6 months after that to feel half way normal.

your whole body changes, your metabolism is based on sugar from alcohol.

beer has nutrients, it is far better to stick to beer if you must drink,

the enzymes in the liver get all whacked, so you change from a liquid diet, to a normal diet,

alcohol is a poison, just like gasoline or chemo.

so you are literally drinking poison to catch a buzz, think about how primitive that is,
but we have wine snobs who think they are so cool, because it's just wine,
ok, whatever.


it ruins every kind of tissue in your body, which means All the organs,

and your brain of course.

so your thinking, and your body go thru slow changes when you quit.

you may notice a huge energy boost after you quit, most 30 day types drive everybody nuts with all that energy, it makes you seem crazy to the AA types, but you mellow out after about month 3 or 4.

at 6 months, you get a little attitude going, you think your joe cool sh#t cause you got it dicked, and you are gonna let everybody know about how good you are, and how bad booze is, blah blah blah.

but after about a year, you start to forget the issue entirely, and just learn to relax and smoke a big honkin bowl, and eat a whole box of cocoa puffs. because you can.


they have this hungry, angry lonely, tired thing also.

but that does not make since to me, because HALT is a way of life for most of us,

we get tired, so we sleep, we get hungry, so we eat.

but we have to get tired and hungry first, so screw that logic.

the way you deal with HALT is to be aware you are dealing with HALT, and just "as is" it.

that is borrowed from the church of seizmology,

they have a concept that says as soon as you identify something, you "as is" it.

after you as is something, it disappears from the mind.

so you "as is" being tired, or lonely, and it goes away.

this way you never have to freak out because you feel yourself in HALT mode.

you say, ok, i'm in danger mode,....so what?

get it?


and stay home if you feel the need to blow it.

one guy from santa cruz went out after 20 years, first time drunk,
and he killed someone with his car,

so from your living room to life in prison, all in 1 hour.

CYA, cover your ass , if you are a member of "The Club."

a 3,000 dollar fine will buy a ton of cab rides.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 13, 2010 - 09:13am PT
Sprock - I apologize for my STFU remark. I wasn't getting where you were coming from. It seemed to me you were saying "You're pissing about alcohol? Damned Babies!" and suggesting something like 'alcohol addiction is to narcotics and kittens are to gigantic mountain lion type animals from back in the dinosaur ere. With wings."

Which would be helpful, no doubt, if people here are kicking heroin.

Anyway - again, I am sorry I misunderstood your effort. You definitely have some good suggestions about that toolkit.

Mountain Dog - The toolkit is being built by you already. It's not something only available through the rehab process. In the toolkit are all the suggestions people are writing here, and that you are hearing from other sources. All the experiences you have that are helping you build your life without drinking. This Supertopo thread is part of your toolkit!

If you have the days clean, no need for rehab at this point. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and finding your way. Not everyone gets clean through rehab(I didn't).

But, if you do find yourself relapsed, or relapsing, and the ways you have been trying don't seem to be doing it, then trying a rehab might be a good idea. They are good in that they have a medical facility to assist in the physical detox portion of the program, and then give you a buffer zone to live in while you get a start. That can be really helpful for someone who would otherwise be just feel too close to easy access of a slip. And they teach you some of the stuff you're learning about here and in your meetings and other places.

When I was first getting sober, I was a little jealous of some of the ones who'd come from rehabs. Some of them made it sound like a sleepaway camp, fer chrissakes! All the care and attention from others....I wanted that!

hahaha - I know that's not really the case, and I couldn't have afforded a rehab anyway, and I also didn't need it. But the rhabs can be a good choice for people. My mom did a couple, and they really were helpful, since she was going to be cast right back in the thick of things the moment she got out.(A family dependent on her, a serious dysfunctional dynamic in the family, and a family with no understanding as to what she was going through). And her rehabs weren't the cushy places I was imagining that I had missed out on....


Studly

Trad climber
WA
Feb 13, 2010 - 11:59am PT
Hank, you are a great athlete and a funny guy. I've seen firsthand how booze can destroy all that. I quit drinking some years ago, and man it feels so good to get up in the morning, or to rope up feeling super stoked and fresh! I can finally look at a bottle of beer or booze and see it for what it is, pure f*#king poison. Realize that and keep looking to the future. Hang in there bro, you are getting it done one day at a time.
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Feb 13, 2010 - 12:08pm PT
Sobriety is never off topic. Ever.

Don't drink, go to meetings, get/call a local sponsor. Call Largo. Learn to appreciate the smell of rank coffee in church basements.

Just cos you climbed and jumped the sick shiz, then hit the pub while you were a drinking alcoholic, doesn't mean you can't climb and jump sick shiz and then go to a meeting as a sober alcoholic. Been there, done that, got the chips and medallions. Join the circle, dude.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 13, 2010 - 12:43pm PT
i realize and enjoy the dangers.

i wanna sprint toward that threshold, beyond which i'm wayward,
and then reel back and laugh.

cause i've the control, discipline and glee to tiptoe upon that edge and smirk as bits of my soul crumble and fall among the void.

its that peeling of the soul that i thrive around.

im on that edge folks. having guiness upon harps. pluckin the strings of sorrow.

so, cheer.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 13, 2010 - 12:58pm PT
happigirl, no need to apologize, i expect a lot more flack than i get around here,

these clinics nowadays, they have valium, and seconal, and qualudes, well, maybe not ludes, but they have a whole ton of stuff they can give you so you don't start shaking like my ex girl.

never seen a body shake so much, for so long, really disgusting,

poor ol Preston had to kick the big H while in a jail cell, no fun.

my dad used to get hospitalized on a weekly basis,

back then, believe it or not, el camino hospital stuck a jack daniels IV in his arm, because that was the way they did it back then.

yeah, booze is a social drink, thats why it's legal.

weed makes you shack up by yourself and surf the net, so it is not considered socially exceptable.

that is why we are surrounded by booze, on every street corner, in every grocery store, gas station, everywhere you look, beer!

which is cool if your a drinker,

AA is the only church i trust nowadays, nice people who want to help,

but the coffee does suck,

\

the most important thing to remember:

It's not your fault!

please believe that,

making ammends is cool, but half the people you abuse know whats going on, so don't sweat the drunken holidays too bad,

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 13, 2010 - 01:38pm PT
you wanna hear a funny one, we were in our drunk class, and the black teacher, who was an ex heron addict, (black folks always pronounce it heron for some strange reason,)
anyway, the teacher asks "what are some of the properties of alcohol?"

and one of the guys says "social lubricant."

and poor ol derek, rest his soul, says "please don't talk about sex in this class..."

i guess you had to be there,
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 13, 2010 - 02:00pm PT
Twisted crank said: "Join the circle, dude."

I can remember, years ago, when I had about two months and I was all skiddish and after a meeting I was running for my car and an old timer came up to me and said, "Don't leave us now." Those words saved me, I swear to God.

So, yeah. Join the circle.

JL
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 13, 2010 - 02:20pm PT
To hear most of you guys stick up for AA helps give me some hope. I've never been into joining clubs or groups. Always felt like and wanted to stay an outsider. A do it yourselfer.
Now, I don't think I can solo this climb. It's good to know I have some peers out there to relate to.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 13, 2010 - 02:21pm PT
a while back this old-timer lady pulled me aside and told me "you don't have to do this alone."

took me a while to take that to heart, but today it serves me well.
Chief

climber
Feb 13, 2010 - 02:24pm PT
AA always stood for Attitude Adjustment.
Just for Today!
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 13, 2010 - 02:26pm PT
the undeniable struggle though...

reality, at times, should be averted. as too much off it is stiffling.

so,
how do you sober folk sidestep the poke in the ribs?
Ricardo Cabeza

climber
All Over.
Feb 13, 2010 - 06:06pm PT
Hank, thanks for bringing this up.

I, too, suffer from alcoholism.

I start, I stop. It all goes back and forth.

I don't post while under the influence as a matter of principle, but alcohol has ruined my life.
I feel helpless, beat down, and it kills me.

I was once a happy, fun loving person.

Now, I teach skiing and drink at night.

I feel confused,scared and stuck in a cycle I don't enjoy.

AA doesn't seem like the answer for me, but I'm running out of options, self control went out the window a while back.

Thanks for speaking about this, you're not alone.

Best,
Brandon-
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Feb 13, 2010 - 07:41pm PT
AA doesn't seem like the answer for me, but I'm running out of options, self control went out the window a while back.

Ricardo,
There are LOTS of people who struggle with AA. More of them than the ones who take to it right off.
As they say, take what you need and leave the rest. It may not be a perfect system, but it has improved millions of lives in the last 60+ years. Not a doubt in my mind.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 13, 2010 - 07:56pm PT
Brandon - AA can be a tough nut for some people, and for some it just doesn't do it. Some have talked about another program called Rational Recovery; I admit I know nothing about that one though.

Some have done a stint in rehab, and through their own efforts afterward, stayed clean.

Some have had their doctors prescribe...I forget the name of that drug. It makes you feel like CA-RAP if you have a drink. I have never used it but know someone who did.... He says "yep, you feel like sh#t." Unfortunately for him, not shitty enough. He drank while on it. Antibuse! That's the drug.



"so,
how do you sober folk sidestep the poke in the ribs?"



Do you mean, avoid feeling the pain, embarrassment, discomfort, humiliation and all those other icky things that happen in daily living?

If yes.... I sidestep them through other processes that aren't good for me - oversleeping and eating sugary foods, mostly. Or I lash out in anger. That isn't good either for me, since I feel crappy afterward.

Some people sidestep with other things. Just cause one doesn't drink doesn't mean they don't still do some pretty sketchy stuff. I've known sober people who were still stealing, sex addicts, raging angry mofo's....

But - the better way is to step back front and center, instead of side-stepping. Feel the pain, humiliation, anger, upset, whatever. Adter all, for me that goes along with getting all the life stuff I have gotten from being sober.

Actually....I am a few days away from getting to experience something potentially really big for me. Well, a step in that direction, anyway. Something that, if I wondered what was one of the things I thought I would never get in life, this would be the one at the top of that list. The fears that this is going to be a poke in the side so painful I want to shrivel up and die are great. I am actually sort of scared.

But I am using those tools I learned through AA, and each time I catch myself going "down a bad line" in my mind, I stop, and go over the facts that I do know. And I tell myself to trust. And be present for this.

I may get an awful poke in the side. But I also may get something else; something much nicer. Without risking the pain, that wouldn't be possible.
willie!!!!!

Ice climber
honolulu, hawaii
Feb 13, 2010 - 10:57pm PT
Hankster - You've got a couple years on me, and I can see we are different in many ways, but I'm right there with ya on the drink.

Alcohol has been a HUGE player in my life. I've never been a down-and-out gutter drunk. Quite the opposite. I've accomplished a lot and made a name for myself in my career and hobbies. Which really amazes me because I am fully alcohol's bitch. I've hit rock bottom twice and done 3 years sober once and 2 years sober the other. Right now I'm fighting (or not) for my life again.

The hardest part for me is that my entire limited social life revolves around getting shitty. All my friends are fellow barfly lushes. It's what we do. It's fun a lot of the time! I'm a big part of an amazing music scene. But the youthfullness I always relied on to get me to the hill the next morning is fading.

The funny thing is that during those five years of sobriety, I did 3 times as much awesome sh#t than during my drunk life.

I'm gonna quit again soon. I have to. I'm looking forward to the awesome hallucinations on night 2-5 and also dropping right back to my fighting weight in 3 weeks.

Congrats on a month. That's a hell of a long ways, as you know.

Put the energy you're killing into something rad.

Neil said we're all like setting suns. Setting suns are awesome. Just shortlived. It's all been written about and studied forever. But here we are, eh? Pretty real.


I'll end this with the Slobberbone on my mind today. I hiked 3 times at the pass. Good day. Still gotta quit again soon. Time for more manic sober antics.



Get Gone Again - Slobberbone


I'm so sick of writing songs about screwin up
No matter how much I fall down, it seems it's never enough
No matter how much good luck throws itself my way
I find some way to ruin it and out again the next day

Road rash and run down
Wrinkled from the rain
The song in my heart makes just one sound
And I sing along just the same
I wonder how long I'll hang around before I go insane
Before I break down
And get gone again

Put myself on trial again for crimes I could not see
My naked aggression was picked up on a charge of indecentcy
And I remember how I felt when first it exposed itself to me
And I pray for forgiveness and a sympathetic jury

Road rash and run down
Wrinkled from the rain
the song in my heart makes just one sound
And I sing along just the same
I wonder how long I'll hang around before I go insane
Before I break down
And get gone again

And it makes no difference what you thought you came here for
Any plans that you might've had
Are swept right out the door
And it makes no difference how hard you think you've tried
When you'll find out in the end its just...
It's just a lie

There's been girls that loved me, I cheated on them
With a woman named whiskey and gin, her best friend
But their affections flow like liquid to a thousand other men
Who will trade lovin for liquor, salvation for sin

Road rash and run down
Wrinkled from the rain
The song in my heart makes just one sound
And I sing along just the same
I wonder how long I'll hang around before I go insane
Before I break down,
And get gone again
And get gone again......
dipper

climber
Feb 13, 2010 - 11:57pm PT
This thread is likely the most significant thread on ST in years.

In no way denigrating all the brilliant posts by Jello, Ed H. (Frank S. thread a true gem), Doug R., Guido, Karl and more.

Watching all the drunk posting (mine included) that has gone on here for years, reading of those that lost the battles with the bottle, the depression and all manner of other hurdles, I vote this thread stay on the front page non-stop.

So many people here have lived on adrenaline for so long as climbers or skiers or base jumpers, living without that euphoric jolt can be damn hard.

Hank, I wish you all the best. Thanks for asking for help. You have all that i can give.

The same to all the rest soldiering on, whether you know you are soldiering or not.

Cinclus mexicanus - That bird that swims
willie!!!!!

Ice climber
honolulu, hawaii
Feb 14, 2010 - 12:13am PT
And to top it off (sorry), the other 90% of the world wishes they had our problems, right?!? WTF.

Anyways, keep up the good work, man. I'll be joining you soon.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 14, 2010 - 12:22am PT
Second Chances

I can’t let it go, the picture I keep of myself
in ruin, living alone, some wretched town
where friendship is based on just being around.
And I drink there a lot, stare at the walls until
the buzzing of flies becomes the silence I drown in.
Outside, children bad-mouth my life with songs
their parents told them to sing. One showers
my roof with stones knowing I’m afraid
to step out and tell him to stop. Another yells,
“You can’t get a woman, old man. You don’t get a thing.”

My wife, a beautiful woman, is fixing lunch.
She doesn’t know I dream these things. She thinks
I’m fine. People respect me. Oh, she knows, all right,
I’ve seen grim times. But these days my poems
appear everywhere. Fan mail comes. I fly east
on a profitable reading tour. Once in a while
a young girl offers herself. My wife knows that, too.
And she knows my happiness with her is far more
than I ever expected. Three years ago, I wouldn’t
have given a dime for my chances at life.

What she doesn’t know is now and then
a vagabond knocks on the door. I go answer
and he says, “Come back, baby. You’ll find
a million poems deep in your destitute soul.”
And I say, “Go away. Don’t ever come back.”
But I watch him walk, always downhill toward
the school yard where children are playing “ghost,”
a game where, according to the rules, you take
another child’s name in your mind but pretend
you’re still you while others guess your new name.


willie!!!!!

Ice climber
honolulu, hawaii
Feb 14, 2010 - 12:54am PT
BVB - you will be one of my mental inspirations this time around. Thanks.
pocoloco1

Social climber
The Chihuahua Desert
Feb 14, 2010 - 12:59am PT
bvb, great stuff. your pen?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 14, 2010 - 02:00am PT
i wish. that's richard hugo.
em kn0t

Trad climber
isle of wyde
Feb 14, 2010 - 03:15am PT
hank,

keep on, one day at time

regarding the higher power / belief conundrum, a good book:
"One Breath at a Time - Buddhism and the Twelve Steps" by Kevin Griffin

namaste, and may the higher power be with you, whatever that may be

Floridaputz

Trad climber
Oakland Park Florida
Feb 14, 2010 - 10:18am PT
regret will be replaced with joy !
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 14, 2010 - 12:28pm PT
What's the worst part about knott drinking?




When you wake up in the morning, that's as good as yer gonna feel all day...

And there's something to be said for that!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 14, 2010 - 12:31pm PT
That's not true.... Especially if you have a cold and are all stuffed up from laying down all night. Or wake up from a nightmare. Or something.


But I suppose - if going up from awful is to be seen as a positive, then....I stick with Door Number One, Bob.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 14, 2010 - 12:37pm PT
Hmmm. I take breaks from alcohol every week - from a day or two to a few days.
I ALWAYS feel better on the mornings when I have knott had any booze the day before,
whether a single beer or several shots of high-grade tequila. When I take breaks spanning
a month or more, I consistently feel much better every morning - day after day after day...
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Feb 14, 2010 - 01:03pm PT
LEB is back and once again an important and meaningful thread takes a nose dive.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 14, 2010 - 01:35pm PT
it used to be a social tool for me. it accompanied and accented my playfull strides.

as a parent, it has now become vitality in a can.

all week long i grind for a paycheck.

evenings i spin barbies in dance. i usually play ken.

weekends i seal the leaks in the homestead and play more dolls and watch dance performances etc.

but i do not get out amongst them mountains. hence i pour some of them 'mountains' into my gob and feel happier for it.

for now, beer is vitality in a can.

i like the flavor too. and my smile widens. and my eyes brighten. temporarily at least.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 14, 2010 - 01:46pm PT
Last night a gorgeous woman came up and introduced herself to me. Unfortunately, I was too sloshed to speak coherently.

So "vitality in a can" - it was most certainly KNOTT.

Reminded me of that saying that goes something like:

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool

-than to open your mouth and remove all doubt...
quartziteflight

climber
Who knows?
Feb 14, 2010 - 01:56pm PT


Hang in there Hankster!


And your right not drinkn is boring as hog piss!





I do find it interesting that we posion our bodies in the name of having a good time..
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Feb 14, 2010 - 02:27pm PT
Willie,
Good to see you join in.
Remember those 5.12 moves getting past the liquor store.....

Norwegian,

You've joined in a lot, but not sure if you're trying to encourage Hank or justify your own scene, or what??
David Knopp

Trad climber
CA
Feb 14, 2010 - 02:38pm PT
hank-i don't know a damn thing about sobriety, but i wish all the best, and ultimate success. You are a great person, have succeeded at many things, and you can succeed at one more. Think of your pugs, they can surely help-they'll love more attention more walks and they will always be there to smile back at you.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 14, 2010 - 03:28pm PT
im just sorting, survival. along with Hank and the others.

i offer my two bits when i save them up.
its selfish spew really.
im laying out my plight on your picnic blanket.
i did encourage hank along on his quiet quest for clarity and poise.

i guess also by spilling my beans into the pot,
the group soup will be so spiced.

nothing of substance here, survival. im all fluff.

hey,,
you got any beer in that picnic basket?
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Feb 14, 2010 - 03:54pm PT
HA! I always enjoy your stuff Norwegian, no matter what you're trying to say!
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Feb 14, 2010 - 07:12pm PT
I appreciate what Largo says about addressing the underlying issues that create the need to numb with alcohol. The curse can actually be a great blessing in giving a person the push to look and heal within, while others might simply bury their issues and live dumb.

Every human, in growing up blindly, raised by parents who they saw as God but who were just humans....we all have twists in our psyche that need healing.

Keep on the path to knowing your self and finding forgiveness for yourself, from yourself and everyone else. Become undivided and whole and enjoy real Life.

Peace

Karl
enjoimx

Big Wall climber
SLO Cal
Feb 14, 2010 - 08:43pm PT
I am pretty much done drinking. Its become a problem. It sucks seeing all the pictures of older people drinking and knowing they are still having a good time and keeping their sh*t together. Thats not me, I cant do that. If I drink , things will go bad. I will waste money and have nothing to show for it. I dont want to be the last person to leave the party.

I went to a art/music festival last night and didnt drink. It was a first, and really hard. I didnt crave any ciggarettes for once which was awesome.

It was interesting watching all the people dance, me being sober, them being sucking down drink and sucking in smoke. I was still able to dance and enjoy myself.

It was really cool driving through a surprise DUI checkpoint in downtown Hollywood, and being completely sober, smiling at the officer and saying "Nothing to drink tonight sir" Haha!
yedi

Trad climber
Stanwood,wa
Feb 14, 2010 - 10:15pm PT
As my good friends would tell me in early sobriety and I still say it" don't drink, go to meetings, ask for help". It took me quite a while to understand but it truly is just one day at a time, sometimes 1 hour or 1 minute, especially when i am feeling that compulsion.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 14, 2010 - 10:32pm PT
some rise.

some fall.

some climb.

to get to terrapin.

counting stars by candle light.
all are dim but ONE is bright.

spiral light of venus shining first and shining best.

oh from the northwest corner, of a brand new crescent moon,


hey now!
sometimes magic needs an ill medium thru which to pass.

look at:
morrison. hendrix. cobain. kerouac.

magicians of thought. if they turned their back on the dark side, i'd be less complete.

i just don't know folks. poisons have their place, to better an ill society i guess.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 14, 2010 - 10:36pm PT
Yay for you, enjoimx!

I remember my first time sober at a party where drinking and smoking pot was going on. I was only about 30 days sober at the time, but was there with a friend who knew my situation and was a non-alcoholic. (I still should NOT have been there!).

But yeah - it was pretty cool, NOT having to drink to be part of the scene. Who'd have known!?


The other funny first was my first time going to the Orient for work after I quit drinking. I was REALLY actually surprised that the majority of people on voard weren't drinking alcohol. At all! That was NOT how I had remembered it being. I thought a good number of people did, and of those, a good munber got sloshed just like I did!

Before, the flight was always TOTALLY about getting sloshed. It was like " I have 12 WHOLE HOURS that I don't have any responsibility whatsoever..." I drank a lot of wine on those trips. One time, I kept asking for refills and the flight attendant got so disgusted he said "Here, take the bottle" and thrust it in my face.

I had 3 quick-in-succession thoughts. 1) "Oh, this is embarrassing." 2)"Thank God I don't have to keep buzzing you, you little twerp." and 3)"Hey, the bottle is only just over half full!"



mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 14, 2010 - 10:47pm PT
enjoimx, That is a good report. Going to places were alcohol is present (almost everywhere in my world) will continue to be interesting. Plus, just the mental association of so many cool people, places, and activities where I imbibed is another problem. Music and literature also set off my warning signs/cravings. What an order!
It seems that somehow we must reinvent ourselves. But I don't want to be the guy in the meeting for the rest of my life, or a monk.
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 14, 2010 - 11:26pm PT
Norwegian, I hear the chants of those shamans so strong. Thier music flows within me from the beginning. But I seek true freedom.
I feel like I need a ritual cleansing of sorts to start anew. The meetings don't have the power and rehab is out of the question. Maybe a sober Big Wall. Will that take me High enough?
Bill Mc Kirgan

Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Feb 15, 2010 - 12:13am PT
I don't know you Hank, but I want you to know that I admire your courage and wish for you all the strength you can muster to achieve your goals. The strength is within you, and it is also reinforced by family, friends, and even strangers, who can light the way for you.
willie!!!!!

Ice climber
honolulu, hawaii
Feb 15, 2010 - 12:32am PT
Lighter, less broke, and not in jail for sure!

I hear ya, man. Stick with it.
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Feb 15, 2010 - 12:40am PT
Hankster, If I were you, but I'm not. I would put #3 at #1.
If you gave vows to a Higher Power when you were married, and meant it, you can use that to your advantage. And the people in your life now mean more than old dead guys or your appearance. But I am still a drunk bachelor.



willie!!!!!

Ice climber
honolulu, hawaii
Feb 15, 2010 - 12:54am PT
Fatty -

No offense, but maybe this thread could be just for people who know what it's like.

Go have a glass of wine and make out with a hot chick or something.

Same with LEB and her waxing pharmacutical bs.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 15, 2010 - 04:01am PT
Norwegian a plagiarist?

Say it ain't so!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 15, 2010 - 08:47am PT
exposed!

shite i was hoping to slip those lyrics by and claim them as my own.

how could you t*r?

all my credibility is gone. im just a puppet echoing the real masters.

shite. where can i turn now? how will i limp thru the moments before me?

sorry hardman. sorry that i built myself up so galiantly in yours eyes and then crumbled.

nothing is real with me. nothing lasts. nothing really began.

nothing is the anatomical sum of the great and vast unknown!

google that t*r and report your findings gal.

edit: tr as far as i could tell (hell if im watching) you had a pretty drama free return! why break that beautiful trend by pokin me in the ribs? with that shot. it wasn't cheap, as i didn't credit the boys. but gerry is goddam standing right next to his discourse.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Feb 15, 2010 - 09:59am PT
Hank,
It is a very bold act to acknowledge your problem so openly. Add me to the long list of those pulling for you.
Rick
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 15, 2010 - 10:28am PT
I hear you, Hankster, on the dead relatives thing.

Saw my grandmother living prone on the couch at 5 years old, when we went for a family vacation to visit. Three days travel - she would have known we were coming - and she was barely coherent, on the couch. Able to get up only to pour herself a drink(if her husband wasn't there to get it for her).

Watched what alcoholism did for my mom for many, many years, and began to see symptoms of the same within my self.

Brother died, technically from drowning. But I know it was the alcohol. He was ice fishing, on a lake with underground streams. He knew the lake had these currents. The ice was less than one inch thick.


Alcohol, for those of us who are addicted in whatever form that takes, is a harsh master.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Feb 15, 2010 - 11:32am PT
Carpe Diem.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 15, 2010 - 11:39am PT
Norwegian - LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mPO0VYtD3w

(3rd verse)
You say : "'Ere thrice the sun done salutation to the dawn"
And you claim these words as your own
But I've read well, and I've heard them said
A hundred times (maybe less, maybe more)
If you must write prose/poems
The words you use should be your own
Don't plagiarise or take "on loan"
'Cause there's always someone, somewhere
With a big nose, who knows
And who trips you up and laughs
When you fall
Who'll trip you up and laugh
When you fall
Porkchop_express

Trad climber
Currently in San Diego
Feb 15, 2010 - 12:11pm PT
Hey Hank,

Keep hanging in there. I dont know you personally but what I have known and seen of you, I admire, and this just adds to that feeling. It is not easy to be open about problems, especially ones without a simple, pat solution.

I am diabetic and I can't drink--well I could if I really wanted to gamble with the insulin and whatnot, but for all practical purposes, I can't. I too, often feel like I the odd man out when everyone is either drinking beer or talking about it...

I know that starting over after a rough spell is hard, but one way or the other, time marches on so you can either feel bad about the mistakes or just accept that you have to try again, just like when you are working a hard climb.

Keep at it, you have a lot of support here!

Steve

Evel

Trad climber
Slartibartfasts Newest Fjiord
Feb 15, 2010 - 02:33pm PT
Go Hank! You can do whatever you want to do. But I guess you already know that. Make it happen!
I'm hurtin . . .

Ice climber
midwest
Feb 15, 2010 - 04:17pm PT
Lot's of advice, that's for sure. I haven't read it all but some's good, some's not.

For me, it got to the point where the last good thing in my life was going to be the price for the next drink. Climbing and my love for it were long gone. I wanted the sense of ease and comfort that came from drinking, but at the end I wasn't even getting that.

Sober (and happy about it) for over 11 years now. And at 55 climbing as hard as ever, and loving it more.

Problem couldn't be solved by any human power. AA and the 12 Steps did it for me.

Good luck
Rone
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Feb 16, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
Good luck Hankster,
you made me think what I am doing too.
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Apr 19, 2010 - 10:01pm PT
I was asked tonight to speak at an AA meeting for the fourth time in a week, all to different crowds and because I recently announced my 5 month anniversary of sobriety.

I mentioned that a couple of on-line climbers threads helped me through the holidays and early 2010. Really, there were several months when I would check in here for hope and strength, and everyone who responded helped me in that regard.

I hope I was able to pass on that positive energy to those that had to sit through my ramblings tonight, and recently.

Thanks to everyone who gave me courage to do the right thing. Without hearing from those of you who share a common passion with me, I am sure this would have taken longer than it already has.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 19, 2010 - 10:07pm PT
Way to go, Edge.

JL
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Apr 19, 2010 - 10:37pm PT
Thanks, guys!

I think this is a great thread to keep on the front page.

It took me 25 years to realize that what I was experiencing was not uncommon, in fact it was de rigeur for climbers. Unfortunately, not all of us are hard wired the same, and threads like this can be invaluable.

Again, thanks to those of you who posted. I count every one of you as my virtual sponsors.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Apr 19, 2010 - 10:42pm PT
Congratulations Edge. :)
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Apr 19, 2010 - 10:45pm PT
Congrats, Edge. I'm proud of all of y'all that chose not to drink (or do whatever was causing you trouble) today and didn't. :-)
Michelle

Social climber
The sucking black hole that is Tuolumne County
Apr 20, 2010 - 01:09am PT
wow, best thread in a long time.

best thing I heard at a meeting I keep thinking about lately.. "ya, we say keep coming back, but maybe YOU should try staying.."

so much is more clear now.
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Apr 20, 2010 - 03:09am PT
hankster, you are still the life of a party, with or without booze. you'll always be the lycra clad, comp pimping, girl pimping, rad tradster that i've grown affectionate for. hoping to come out to boulder this summer. maybe we
get together for some sandbagging. ciao, steve
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Apr 20, 2010 - 03:37am PT
Way to go Edge. I'm coming up on 60 days myself. This thread is what gave me the impetus to commit. It certainly helps to have like minded souls (climbers) in your support group. Thanks to you all.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 20, 2010 - 07:43am PT
Hankster, I hope you are still hanging in there! The first 6 months were brutal for me, the first year was hard but it has gotten progressivly easier.. coming up on 4 years now. Never went to a meeting though I do seem to enjoy talking about it with other ex drunks..

A few tricks that help me.

Recognise the times when you are vulnerable. For me its right after climbing. still on the adrenalin high and hungy and thirsty as hell. Sometimes just chugging some water gets me over that instant urge. Food also helps in those moments. the body craves sugar from all those years boozing.. If its geting me real bad i have an ice cream.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Apr 20, 2010 - 08:08am PT
Ah - the sugar thing. So true. I know it is for me, anyway.

I recall a day a few years ago when I was hanging with a few friends at Split Rock(a local swimming hole at the Gunks). There was a PAT-TEE going on that day. Home made booze being passed from picnicker to picniker. Pot in the air. Laughter, fun, silly drunk men telling tales of daring do... and it was a hot, summer day.

I was never comfortable being in groups before I got sober. Until I had my 3rd or so drink - then, I would feel what I called "the wash," a feeling very much like when the aspirin kicks in and the headache I took it for evaporated. An visceral feeling of my body relaxing, and a wondering of just what on earth I had been so uptight over... But, in getting sober and doing service commitments, I learned that "others" aren't so bad after all, and so that day should have been not a big deal, even with all the drinking going on.

For whatever reason, I began to feel uncomfortable. Maybe it was the drinking, but more likely it was a combination of all sorts of stuff going on there. One of the people I was with told me there was a girl actually taking guys on, one by one. A person I'd hung out with on a climbing trip in JTree came over - obnoxiously drunk - and began tearing into me for remaining friends with someone who had done them wrong. The other person I was with, who had broken up with her BF several months ago, had run into him there and they were making doe eyes at each other(she had told me she would be uncomfortable if ever running into him...what a surprise she wasn't - hahahah). And I suddenly began to feel like that woman unto an island herself.

I had my Nalgene of lukewarm water and I can tell you - when I got thirsty, that just was NOT doing it.

I began to be more agitated and decided I had better take a walk and regroup. I went to the van, thinking I would get some crackers, cheese and fruit to bring back and share. Thinking that I was feeling "left out," and the sharing would help(ummm...drunks generally are only interested if you're sharing booze, FYI. Or maybe sex, I suppose. Cheese? Crackers? No - haha).

Anyway, as I rummaged through the cooler, I came upon the jug of orange juice I had. icy cold, and delicious, I slugged a big amount of it.

Immediately, I felt better. IMMEDIATELY!


The triggers were probably definitely there(a sense of separateness/loneliness has always been the sticking point for me, and one of the probable reasons I drank). But it was a hot summer day and I was drinking plain water. Not even chilled water. I wasn't taking care of myself at all. Here I was, at what was tantamount to a party, and I had nothing to imbibe with. I was white-knuckling it.....

The quick dose of sugar brought my body back into some sort of regulation that was amiss, and I brought the orange juice back to the swimming area with me, filled another Nalgene, and felt a LOT better.




Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 20, 2010 - 08:59am PT
I've been eating a lot of chocolate...
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 20, 2010 - 10:20am PT
high end chocolate shop? on 4/20?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Redlands
Apr 20, 2010 - 11:54am PT
Going on about a month now. First time I've stopped drinking for more than a week in 17 years, been a regular, daily drinker for about 20 years. Wicked sugar cravings still, after a month, mostly at night. But I definitely feel better.

Now I'm getting on a plane this afternoon to go back east for a funeral. There will be more liquor around that I can imagine and a huge wake. Not looking forward to this "test".
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Apr 20, 2010 - 11:57am PT
Good luck Elcap. That situation does sound to be quite the test (on many levels). Hang tough!
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Apr 20, 2010 - 12:02pm PT
Stay strong, Elcap. Once everyone else gets good and liquored up, and you can observe with a clear mind, you will find new inspiration and reasons to not drink.

Make sure you have someone you can call if you need support.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 20, 2010 - 12:11pm PT
Go to a meeting in the morning. There are meetings everywhere, and plenty at 7 or 7:30. Like Edge said, have a number you can call. Remember the "insanity of that first drink." Then hand it over.

JL
Tattooed 1

Trad climber
Sebastopol, Ca
Apr 20, 2010 - 01:12pm PT
My dad had a 8 to 12 beer a day habit for most of my life. I'm 45 he is 63. He quit last year when he had a massive heart attack. Low potassium bought on by his alcohol abuse played a large part in that. At first the rest of the family quit drinking around him at all just to remove that temptation. Now a year later he says he doesn't feel the need for a drink. "Sure it would be nice but I don't need it". The heart attack sucked but it probably saved his life.
Tim
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Apr 20, 2010 - 02:10pm PT
Alcohol can kill you spiritually, physically and mentally. But, like Largo said "its a symptom" However quiting alcohol and drugs was the hardest thing I have ever done. No actually it was staying quit.

I have an addictive personality, I am an escape artist. I need help on a daily basis and I get that help by relying on a higher power. I grounded my self in AA for the first several years. I needed to know that other people just like me were out there. Battling with the same emotions and loss.

Only another alcoholic/addict can truly know whats going on for another addict/alcoholic. We understand. Unless you've been there you don't know. There is a ton of support, but my ego gets in the way of my path. My brain tells me all kinds of nonsense.

The 12 steps were adopted from a myriad of principles designed to teach you to live with acceptance, trust in a higher power and to feel good about your self through helping others. Hankster I don't know about the first two but I know that by reaching out you have helped countless others.

For a community where drinking is so prevalent; sobriety is an obvious topic. I applaud your courage to share this with us and to face your demons daily. Don't give up, there is nothing that drink can make better.
H
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 20, 2010 - 10:21pm PT
Ya got to have a back up plan for those times that are going to be tempting. Super hard day at wok or super crazy climbing day it's ok to treat yourself to an ice cream. But even then you may need to pound a gatorade or even just a bunch of water when you hit the parking lot to get you through that time when your friends are digging into the beers..

For the first year or so It was pretty hard. Hollidays, etc. were tough. 4 years in and its pretty easy. I play music in bars with people drinking all arround me and I am totally ok 99% of the time. Now and then the rat askes to be fed and you just have to be strong.....
Mimi

climber
Apr 20, 2010 - 10:36pm PT
This may have been pointed out already. Key treatment for recovering alcoholics is to provide fave sweets. The candy replaces the sugar source from the alcohol and helps stem the craving. One thing about taking a break that I share with friends; why be forced to have to quit doing something you really enjoy? Don't let it become such a problem that you would consider quitting. What a bummer that is. Large doses of chocolate for example.

Other than that, it's like breaking any other habit. Just do it! God bless!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 20, 2010 - 11:53pm PT
Elcapyo, think of the climbs you want to do and reflect how you said you feel
better.
Rocky Road is good, too!
Michelle

Social climber
The sucking black hole that is Tuolumne County
Apr 21, 2010 - 01:28am PT
oh god I hate this struggle. early sobriety blows. its been 24 hours on this road again. 4-20 is a good birthday though. great meeting tonite too!

happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Apr 21, 2010 - 07:42am PT
mimi - Not sure if you were talking about alcohol or sweets in your last post but, generally, being "forced" to quit drinking doesn't work.

What force?
 Being put in prison? There's a whole underground railroad of suppliers - you can get anything you want.
 Getting a prescription of Antabuse? I've listened to plenty of people who drank throughout when on that. Felt like crap, but drank nonetheless.


Threats of leaving/actual leaving from the loves of people's lives, killing another person in a drunken blackout, lost jobs, homelessness, a myriad of lows most people could never imagine dropping to - these things simply do not act as forces that make a person quit.

Some people want, desperately, to quit. And yet, they can't. It's not due to a lack of will-power. Addiction is funny that way. It's a real monster.


Congratulations, Michelle - Agreed, a good birthday!
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Apr 21, 2010 - 10:20am PT
I'm going to a meeting tonight. Just cuz
Mimi

climber
Apr 21, 2010 - 10:29am PT
happie, by force, I mean pressure from family, friends, peers, a doctor, etc. Doing anything that can ruin your health so much that you are compelled to quit is pretty radical. Look at what climbing does to the body. LOL!

Moderation is the key but I guess that's the problem with some people, they can't moderate the activity.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Apr 21, 2010 - 11:48am PT
Hank? Hello?

Where U Iz brother?
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 21, 2010 - 05:31pm PT
You can't force someone to be sober. They need to want to be sober. if you really want it you can do it!
WBraun

climber
Apr 21, 2010 - 05:48pm PT
"You can't force someone to be sober."

Everyone eventually becomes forced to be sober.

In the end you are forced whether like it or not ......

There's no escape.
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Apr 21, 2010 - 06:44pm PT
We have a relative who literaly drank himself to death.

You can't force sobriety on anyone, only when they choose to change will they be capable of changing. There is no 100% effective sobriety method, because many folks are forced into rehab and haven't bought into it. Thus when they leave they go right back to their bad habbits.

Hank, I hope you're doing well.

Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Apr 21, 2010 - 07:38pm PT
death is sobering, eh Werner?

i see that only as reckless forecasting, built upon wobbly cliches.

by pissing on the mystery and concluding it ahead of time, you slam shut the doors and windows of your horizon.

mine? they are open and both foul and pleasant breezes squeeze their way between my clinched will.

storms penetrate. as does warming sunshine.

through those openings i see more and more mystery. ever beyond. ever beckoning....

i've escaped.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Apr 21, 2010 - 07:48pm PT
Today I'm holding my sister's hand as she waits to hear about her husband's medical tests. He is 50. If he is lucky, he just has cirrhosis. If he isn't lucky, she is definitely raising the kids alone. Absolutely started with drinking. His biggest regret is that he did this to himself.

So take great pride in each day that you take care of yourself and don't leave a mess for someone else. Hope that you have accumulated a more months since your first post.
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Apr 22, 2010 - 10:55am PT
To all of you struggling to get the early sobriety out of the way, let me say again, no matter how bad it seems now, it does get better, keep at it.

Mimi, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, so please don't. This disease, yes disease, kills.

And a last, and sad note. I have been waiting all week to find out when the funeral services will be for a lifelong friend will be. The family is so distraught from his drug related murder, they have decided no service is the best thing. It is all over the media here, and speculation as to motives, gangs, drugs, and the whole ugly mess is everywhere. This is a small community with none of these problems the norm. No room for the grieving or sorrow. He and I spent the last years of my using together almost every day, and night. My sobriety didn't end our friendship, but in order to remain diligent in my path, I had to walk a different road. I will miss him greatly.

The main thing I would hope you can glean from this is that he and I were the same, only I got lucky. Out of all the people we did our thing with, only three others and myself remain on this planet. And we will talk about it when we see each other next, most likely at a meeting. Hmmmm.

Bob

Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Apr 24, 2010 - 12:16am PT
Good thoughts for everyone who's working on this tonight.
Prezwoodz

climber
Anchorage
Apr 24, 2010 - 01:05am PT
Those times when people go out drinking and wasted after climbing drives me nuts. There useless most of the next day and I am still gunning to go hit something new. . I for one don't think its cool in anyway, could be because ive never drank in my life but to me its a waste of time. I give you a double thumbs up for giving it up for something greater. Those times spent in pubs could be better spent climbing something or on the wall.

Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Apr 24, 2010 - 01:33am PT
4 months-17 days
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 24, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
This may have been pointed out already. Key treatment for recovering alcoholics is to provide fave sweets. The candy replaces the sugar source from the alcohol and helps stem the craving. One thing about taking a break that I share with friends; why be forced to have to quit doing something you really enjoy? Don't let it become such a problem that you would consider quitting. What a bummer that is. Large doses of chocolate for example.

Other than that, it's like breaking any other habit. Just do it! God bless!
-


This might be okay advice for getting past the initial craving for alcohol, but that's just a small part (the symptom) of an alcoholic. A program addresses the underlying malady that triggers the drinking in the first place. The reason that people need to keep going to meetings is that the alcoholism is a permanent condition. Yo only get a one day reprieve.

JL
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Redlands
May 1, 2010 - 08:20pm PT
Flying back home to SoCal tomorrow after burying my only grandpa. Still sober. I don't really know how to deal with people repeatedly offering me drinks after being told I'd quit.

"Hey, you want a beer"
"No thanks, I don't drink anymore"
Five minutes later, same person...
"Hey, you want a beer?"
"Hey, are you f*#king deaf? I don't drink anymore"

Sugar cravings are basically gone, so I got that goin' for me.


Mimi

climber
May 1, 2010 - 08:28pm PT
Yes, the sugar supply is one part of the early physical side of things. Good counseling and support are mandatory along with the will and desire to improve your own wellbeing.

Sorry about grandpa.
Chief

climber
May 1, 2010 - 08:29pm PT
Thanks to Hank and everyone who's had the courage to share here.
It's an inspiration to many, myself included.
Best to all.

Edit; To those who haven't seen it, check out Michael Keaton's performance in "Clean and Sober". There's also a reality TV show, "Sober House" that shows no one's immune from the ravages of an addictive lifestyle and that the very things that drive people to apparent success are also their ultimate undoing.
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
May 2, 2010 - 01:02pm PT
Sorry about you Grandpa. Hardest part of life.

Congrats if your still sober though to all, but especially Hank and ECIYA.

Side jaunt if I may. I am heading to the valley next week for a month plus of festivities, is there an active meeting in the valley? When and where? Just asking.

Bob
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
May 2, 2010 - 01:49pm PT
Glad to hear, Elc. When are you headed back to the valley?
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jun 22, 2010 - 10:04am PT
the south threshold of my fortitude co-boundaries the north end of a searing ailment.

mere inconveniences plucking at my life twine.
a sorrowful tune ensues.
my soul dances to the sad ditty,
and then limps home to enjoy the comraderie of lonliness.

a splinter in my toe,
becomes an arrow in my bow.
with poor aim but rich hope,
i fire the dart at the devil all about.

a lapse in his laughter as he falls dead to the floor,
though he rises again in mock praise of jesus.
quartziteflight

climber
Who knows?
Jun 22, 2010 - 10:22am PT
Here's a question for yall who've quit drinking. I quit drinking for a while just for hell of it. Did you find life boring as sh8t after stopping?
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Jun 22, 2010 - 10:44am PT
Hi Bob I am a little late on the draw. I guess you in the Valley by now. They have meeting there just check the newsletter they hand you when you come in the gate.

Wow Norwegian that was awesome.

Quartzite, my life became very full after I changed a lot of my habits and went to a lot of meetings. I started climbing which rapidly became my new addiction. I filled my life with healthier things. Sorry your board, but that is a much better problem then where alcohol can take you.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 22, 2010 - 10:45am PT
Sharp end= not boring. Get after it.
Les

Trad climber
Bahston
Jun 22, 2010 - 10:59am PT
amazing thread. with advice from climbing luminaries such as Largo, Steve Schneider and Ward Smith, to name just a few. based on Ward's post, I would say there's something to this amorphous "climbing community" thing. have a few friends who've gone the way of sobriety, and I recall one telling me, after I told him that it was about time and that I was really happy for him, that I was one of the few people to actually say that to him. he said it meant a lot to him. best wishes for all of you out there who struggle with this demon.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Jun 22, 2010 - 12:42pm PT
Sharp end= not boring. Get after it.


Love that post.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jun 22, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
Hank, people are pulling for you.

My sister's husband has had surgery and is getting further treatment. They are hopeful. Yes, his alcoholism injured to his liver. His subsequent sobirety is the only reason he isn't already in the ground.

Reviewing this thread, it appears that there are quite a few people who no longer indulge or who do not overindulge. I'm no world class climber, and I don't have a long list of folks clamoring to climb with me. I do have a list of folks I won't go climbing with - I don't want to come to a ledge and find them indulging, and I don't want a late start on Sunday cuase they are too hungover to get up. When I tie in with someone, I need to be able to really trust them. I'll pass on party boy. I'll tie in with a man or woman who has a clear head and focus.
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Jun 22, 2010 - 01:29pm PT
Sober exactly 18 years as of one hour ago.

Funny how insidious this disease is that I can remember the exact second I put down that last drink.
BrianH

Trad climber
santa fe
Jun 22, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
I started climbing when I was 33. I started drinking long before that and smoking even earlier. Lying in bed recently, recovering from surgery; I started planning a year long road trip to realize a 15 year dream of getting my ass up some big ol'mountains.

I can't do it if I continue to drink and smoke. Youthful vigor is giving way to something else and the booze and the smoke have become very hurtful.

Thanks for all the truths here.

quartziteflight

climber
Who knows?
Jun 22, 2010 - 02:19pm PT
Sharp end= not boring. Get after it.


Love that post.


The sharp end doesnt get boring, thats for sure! Neither does ripping downhill on a mtnbike at the edge of total catastrophe! There is a bit of letdown after that much stimulation!

Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jun 22, 2010 - 02:22pm PT
and what do you do when you digger that mtn bike and sit idle for 6 months while watching your collar bone heal.

a seranade? or a seranac.
rrrADAM

climber
LBMF
Jun 22, 2010 - 02:25pm PT
Good on you brutha...

I've been Clean and Sober (same thing) for over 21 years now (Oct 23, 1988), and was a homeless drug addict prior to finding recovery. Although I'm more a friend of Jimmy K's than I am of Bill W's, if you know what I mean.

Recovery, for me, is a journy mainly of self-awareness and finding out who I really am, which is dynamic not static, so I'll never reach an end.
Stevee B

Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
Jun 22, 2010 - 03:49pm PT
Been a friend of Bill for 20+ years now, climbing & skiing all over the planet. It's tough somedays on longer expeditions when my tentmates are smoking the ganj 6x day in the tent during a storm, but I've also met some of the best alpine partners, also in the program. One of my kayak guides in Peru was in the program - I noticed when I saw his spanish "daily reflections" book. I found much needed support in the middle of a hard time at a meeting in Kathmandu, Nepal. It's a great adventure and the best life I've ever known. Keep it up, the best is yet to be.
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Jun 22, 2010 - 06:30pm PT
Went to AA 30 years ago and told myself "I'm not like these people!" and continued to drink.

Went to AA 20 years ago and said, "Yeah, I drink, but I can stop for weeks at a time. I can't really be an alcoholic." and continued to drink.

Went to AA 10 years ago and said "Yeah, I'm an alcoholic, but so what. Give me another drink and eff off."

Last year I went to an AA meeting and said "I'm an alcoholic and I want what you have." Since then I've struggled mightily, with several weeks of sobriety here and there. I think its finally working and I've got 40 days today.

I used to drink heavily and go climbing, which is generally frowned upon, so most of my climbing adventures over the last couple of decades have been solo while inebriated. Smart eh? Yeah, I am very sick. Now that I'm sobering up I find soloing all the time is a lonely existence. I'm ready to start climbing with other people. Any recovering alcoholics here in So Cal looking for a partner?
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Jun 22, 2010 - 06:33pm PT
Great post AM.

Hang in there bro.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 22, 2010 - 06:52pm PT
There's a two year long step study at a local church. What a gift. Great to work a program. Death without it.

JL
Plaidman

Trad climber
West Slope of Rocky Butte, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jun 22, 2010 - 07:55pm PT
This July it will be 25 yrs. clean and sober. It certainly has been worth the ride. Hang in there it gets interesting.

Plaidman
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Jun 22, 2010 - 10:09pm PT
My birthday is July too. 7/27/87. I wasn't climbing then and am really glad because it filled the hole that drugs and alcohol left. Now my sobriety/serenity is more balanced with a high power I have developed by going to meeting and climbing. I really needed focus (still do sometimes) and climbing really helped with that.

Hang in there Anxious Melancholy. Your in for a hell of a journey. Glad you kept coming back until it stuck. Every time I log on to this topic I wonder how Hank is doing. If he knows what he started. Hope he's OK.
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Jun 22, 2010 - 10:27pm PT
AM. Hang in there, it has been worth every inch, and what a ride too.
When I am around the valley, I will tie in with ya.

Bob
rrrADAM

climber
LBMF
Jun 23, 2010 - 07:27am PT
AM... Jump into the Fellowship with both feet. Get lots of numbers, AND USE THEM. [Especially when new] If you are hanging out with people who have a couple of years, and you tell them you want to get loaded, they will tell you "it will pass"... If you are hanging out with people that get loaded and you tell them that you want to get loaded, they will likely tell you "they know where to score", or, "they are holding".

It really is about what you DO, not what you want... We act our way into good thinking, we do not think our way into good acting.


As a friend of mine used to always say:
"You can go to a lot of meetings and make it easy, some and make it hard, or none and make it impossible."
After 19 1/2 years of always going to meetings, he stopped going to any, and within a year was strung out on the streets.


IMHO, I cannot stress the importance of the "Fellowship" in our recovery... Where people know our name, and notice when we aren't there [they'll call], or we are 'off balance' a bit, and ask what's up. Coming late, leaving early, arms crossed and quiet, isn't a "part of"... They won't notice if we aren't there, and won't call, if they don't know us. To me, my "network" is some of my closest friends, and they are family.
Sunshinesmile

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 23, 2010 - 11:37am PT
My mom was an Alcoholic and a single parent. I was an only child who didn't understand what was going on or how it affected my life. She is now sober for more then 7 years. Now I actually love my mom for who she is instead of just because she is my mom and I have to. We have a healthy respectful relationship now and I enjoy being around her. Still working on the personal issues of being raised by an alcoholic but I am getting better every day.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jun 23, 2010 - 12:38pm PT
you stare at the ground with your jaw cupped in your hands.
next to you stands a beverage, who slowly releases her carbon in quaint little bubble bursts.

life as you've spent it has torn you to shreds.
dry mouth, slight headache. wretched breath.
no tears where tears should be.

the wind blows and the dust stirs, but you don't care.
your journey is thru.
and you never did achieve beyond.

a blink clears the sting from your eyes.

i reach for my glass and place its contents within me.

willful sorrow, why?
because i am very human.
Stevee B

Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
Jun 24, 2010 - 02:13pm PT
AM, congrats on 40 days, that's a big deal. Ditto what so many others have said. If you came to the rooms and looked around and said "This is f'n LAME!", you are not alone. There are times I still think it's lame, or that if I jump in with both feet I'll become an automaton or brainwashed or lose all my free time. It's always turned out the opposite - when I get active and sacrifice time for meetings/sponsees/service etc. I end up with my free will intact, more productive free time, and a more positive outlook. And most of all, the complete removal of the obsession to drink. I just hope I never forget this stuff I'm typing right now, because I seem to forget it a lot, haha.
Hah what a cool place to have a little impromptu online meeting - Supertopo! hysterical!

nevahpopsoff

Boulder climber
the woods
Jun 24, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
oh, boy....
life as you've spent it has torn you to shreds.
dry mouth, slight headache. wretched breath.
no tears where tears should be
Blitzo

Social climber
Earth
Aug 14, 2010 - 07:32pm PT
I haven't done any drugs or booze for months and I feel so good that I want to grt high!
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Aug 19, 2010 - 09:44am PT
i love beer.
i also love good health and well-being.

can a person manage these two loves, responsibly?
is it IMPOSSIBLE for everyone, or just for those of certain constitution?

i've existed nearly as long as i can remember.
thus i'm mostly proven.

and since i probably am, and surely open, life will process thru me: a confluence of joys and sorrows.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Aug 26, 2010 - 11:59am PT
Congratulations!
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Aug 26, 2010 - 01:57pm PT
Excellent! Way To GO!!

What a great feeling...104 days today.

I was asked recently how I'm doing this.
I am honest with myself and others.
I have a desire to stop the madness.
in the early weeks, I kept coming back, even after a day or two of drinking.
I believe in progress, not perfection.
I talk to people who care and understand, people who are also sober alcoholics.
I accept the fact that it's not all about me.
I'm willing to accept that the world and the powers in it are much greater than mine, and am humbled by the knowledge.

i like the way i feel, like the people i meet, feel a part of a wonderful and much healthier community, and don't pick up that first drink...no matter what.
The journey has just begun..........
What a great feeling!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 26, 2010 - 02:16pm PT
Hang in there.

I'm somewhere in the 5 month range (I don't count the days) coming off about a bottle of wine/ 3 or 4 pint per night habit for about 15 yrs. And I feel much better. Sugar cravings were awful for about 6 weeks, now I don't crave booze or sugar. And I find myself with about $75-$100 extra $$ per month, so that's a nice bonus.



Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 26, 2010 - 02:21pm PT
Keep coming back. Easy does it. Don't think too much. Get a sponsor immediately. Work the steps. Be of service. And most of all, take contrary action - that's the key, for it's only possible once you have a plug in with a higher power.

JL
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Aug 26, 2010 - 04:10pm PT

Cool that this thread came back to the top.

Guess what? TODAY is my 14th year anniversary!
Gene

Social climber
Aug 26, 2010 - 04:12pm PT
Much respect, Happie!

Getting closer........ I have real bad coping abilities.

g
Daphne

Trad climber
Mill Valley, CA
Aug 26, 2010 - 05:12pm PT
Happy Birthday, Happie!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 27, 2010 - 12:39am PT
4 years yesterday, 8-25-06

No meetings, did it on my own but I do like to talk with other recovered boozers... I still crave sugar but feel super strong on the no drinking thing. Ice cream is my big splurge...

Hope the Hankster is doing ok.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 27, 2010 - 12:50am PT
My best friend is my former GF who is the only persson i know who dosent drink but was never an alchoholic.. she is just a health nut/picky eater. reads the lables on all her food etc. She has maybe a dozen glasses of wine a year and has never been on a bender in the 12+ years that i know her so she is not BSing me about her reasons for not drinking. I know I sure as heck wouldn't be able to have just a single half glass of wine..

Anyways she gives me crap for drinking Ginger Ale when I go out to bars to play music because soda is bad for me. can't you just drink plain water! like me. Ya da ya.etc. I finaly got pissed last week and said, your not a fecking alchoholic like me. I like somting fizzy and sweet to sip on when I am in a bar. It helps keep me out of troubble...

Sometimes I get drunk in my dreams and then I get all freaked out thinking that I have totally blown it.. I wake up super fast and freaked out and am relieved to find that it was just a dream....
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Oct 16, 2010 - 11:10pm PT
illness is a vibrant pigment of a decorated life,
without which one's hue tends toward gray.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 16, 2010 - 11:27pm PT
But a touch of Gray, suits you, weeg.


Way to go, trad 'n happy!
Yeah, what about that Hankster?
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Oct 17, 2010 - 12:36am PT
Thanks to Hank for this thread and to everybody willing to share their experiences. It really helps. Hope Hank's hanging in there. As they say in those rooms, the door opens both ways and you can come back any time.

Gratefully,

PB
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Oct 17, 2010 - 01:29pm PT
I always liked this AA one liner.

"If it doesn't work for you, your misery will be refunded to you in full."
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Oct 19, 2010 - 07:36pm PT
Hankster rears his head, SWEET!

Good to hear you're doing well man, keep it up!
mooser

Trad climber
seattle
Oct 19, 2010 - 08:05pm PT
Hankster, we've never met, but I have to tell you how stoked I am to see you resurface, and I'm really happy to hear of your personal "day at a time" journey.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 19, 2010 - 09:14pm PT
Good to hear and congrats, Hankster!

What does an arborist in Boulder do in the winter (besides climb ice and go to Indian creek)?

murcy

climber
sanfrancisco
Dec 23, 2010 - 10:21pm PT
propers
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Dec 23, 2010 - 11:11pm PT

That's great, Hank!!!!
Happy Holidays!!!!
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Dec 23, 2010 - 11:14pm PT
Just heard a speaker talk about "forgivness."

I have some work to do, but I'll do it sober if you please.

JL
S.Leeper

Sport climber
Austin, Texas
Dec 23, 2010 - 11:17pm PT
Awesome job, Hank!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 23, 2010 - 11:19pm PT
way to go, man. i'm back to working on a month. it feels good. i've lost a few battles, but i know in my heart i'm gonna win the war!
chez

Social climber
chicago ill
Dec 23, 2010 - 11:21pm PT
Largo,
What does that mean? Did you fall off, forgive yourself and get back on?
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Dec 23, 2010 - 11:30pm PT
Way to go Hankster! I'm about a month behind ya and all I can say is "WOW, what a journey!" Glad ya posted up and let me know that you're being successful. Like others here, I care. Your success helps fuel mine. Just as this thread has resurrected, so too has my faith and hope. Keep it real Bro.
TD
Disaster Master

Social climber
Born in So-Cal, left my soul in far Nor-Cal.
Dec 23, 2010 - 11:39pm PT
Continued best wishes to all who struggle with the bottle.

At times I have been an every day or so drinker. At other times I have been a dedicated pub fly, with an engraved mug and regular seat at the bar.

THanks to resolve and a good woman, I got down to a couple daily beers.

Now after an on and off tappering off, I am on week 2 sans beer.

whenever I am wanting to drink I tell myself "It would only last a half hour or so. What a rip off." Silly trick, but it helps.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Dec 23, 2010 - 11:43pm PT
Staying clean through the holidays can be tough. Just hang with the right crowd and stay out of slippery places. 25 yrs last July 5th. Happy Holidays.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 24, 2010 - 01:38am PT
Yeah,you're right, it doesn't work that way... But, on the other hand...just 2?
Paul Martzen

Trad climber
Fresno
Dec 24, 2010 - 11:58am PT
So Hank, and others, tell us about some of the things that you are experiencing now, changes in your perceptions and feelings and awareness, that you are able to experience now that that you have been sober for this long. Things that you were not aware of and could not experience when you were drinking. What are some of the things that you like about your life when you are sober?

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 24, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
9 months, give or take. Plenty of hanging out with people who are drinking...first month was pretty rough, after that maybe one real bad craving.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 24, 2010 - 02:55pm PT
9 months today.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 24, 2010 - 03:15pm PT
No problem! No program, either. Just not drinking.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Dec 24, 2010 - 03:55pm PT
YaY for sober holidaze!!!

What I have found, once I got a bit down the road in recovery, was that I can have the exact type of fun I was seeking through drinking, without taking a drop!

Not at first, mind you. I was terrified to be in social situations and I have at least one friend who I bailed out on because I could not show up to their event, so afraid of the sensations. It was BRUTAL, for me, to be in a social situation with more that 1 or 2 other people, before I was sober and in the first couple years of sobriety.

The thing that helped me, and continues to, was doing service. I used it as a cape to masquearde behind at first. Service - at the group level and even beyond - is one hell of a crutch to prop oneself up. It gave me the feeling of like..."It's okay(for me to be here). I'm with the band."

In doing that service - and gawd was I awkward at first - I did begin to have the experiences that helped me to learn how to interact with others. Strange as it may seem - for some of us, it is like we really did not get that software installed into our operating system.

At any rate - the holidays can be truly difficult times, for alchies, sober alchies, and even(gasp!) regular folks! Things that can help:
 Bookend Stressful situations - Have a trusted person you call before heading in, who is waiting to hear back from you after you've left(and can be there for an emergency call during, if needed).
 EAT beforehand - do NOT go to a party hungry. Who knows what ca-rap they may or may not be serving, or how l,ong they will keep you waiting before placing one teensy tray of cheese and crackers out for the hungry masses.
 Have something to drink! Non-alcoholic, of course(and remember - non-alcoholic beer is for non-alcoholics!). At a party - plain tap water just sometimes does NOT cut it. Even adding a slice of citrus will help, but if you like, bring some juice to mix with a carbonated water for a nice cocktail. Cranberry and orange juice is actually great, and doesn't even NEED the vodka!!! It's not that we DON'T drink - we don't drink booze! So if your host asks if you'd like a drink, say "Please - a cranberry/seltzer if you have it!" But don't count on friends who are not used to serving non-booze at parties to have something for you - BYO! They may also be uncomfortable asking if they can get you something to drink.... Don't be afraid to serve yourself.
 Remember - you're sobriety is Just For Today. If you get antsy, remind yourself that Just for Today, you can stay away from that drink. If you still want it tomorrow; it's there waiting for you....



Happy Sober Holidays to All!



snakefoot

climber
cali
Dec 24, 2010 - 04:03pm PT
keep on it.
so fun to hang with you at the DZ where your lady is having a blast playing in the squirrel suit
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Dec 24, 2010 - 04:06pm PT
Ran into Hank and his wife at the gym a couple of weeks ago. They look awesome. It was truly a holiday gift to see them together, healthy and happy. Thanks for that Hank!
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Dec 24, 2010 - 04:10pm PT
Largo,
What does that mean? Did you fall off, forgive yourself and get back on?
-----


Nope, I didn't go out. I can't. My main problem was drugs, and I put those down before my first daughter was born, and she's 22 (took two tries to quit the sauce, however, before I had the "realization at depth" that I simply could not drink - at all.) Unfortunately, I'm a genuine addict/drunk, so if I go out, I'm hosed. So one day at a time . . .

And three cheers to Hank and Bob and everyone else counting months or days.

Happy Holidays, amigos!

John
bmacd

Trad climber
100% Canadian
Dec 24, 2010 - 04:28pm PT
116 days
pyrosis

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Dec 24, 2010 - 04:47pm PT
Much respect to everyone walking this road: Hank, BVB, Largo, Jaybro, and all the others. Your stories and the desire to better yourselves is an inspiration to me. Thank you for what you have shared here.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Dec 24, 2010 - 05:15pm PT
My ultimate respect for those who are actually CONFRONTING the problem in their lives, and are not in denial (not the river in Africa, either!)

For those actually old enough to remember Pogo Possum,: "We have met the enemy, and he is US." This held true for many of my family members who were W.W. II veterans, and they were heavy boozers.

So...cheers, Hankster, even though we haven't ever met. For your very strongest support group, go look in a mirror while you are sober.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Dec 24, 2010 - 07:55pm PT
Hank, Largo, Jaybro, bmacd,

Way to go guys, thanks for sharing.
Someone told me the other day they heard I was "on the wagon".
Hell of a thing to say to a wagon burner.
A wagon is just a vehicle from one drunk to another.
Just had more than my share for a while.

Best of the holiday season to all.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Dec 24, 2010 - 10:26pm PT
bmacd and Jaybro congrats. Merry Christmas!!!
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Dec 24, 2010 - 10:30pm PT
I have to chime in here, alcoholism is a touchy topic for me, this is my own personal story.

I checked in to AA at 29 after trying and failing to stay sober on my own several times. I am 31 now and it has been almost two years for me since I took my last drink. I spent about 10 years from my late teens to my late twenties getting hammered as often as possible. It started out innocently enough, but by the time I was twenty five I knew I was developing a problem. It took four more years of being consistently drunk six nights a week to really start to come to terms with what was going on. I thought I was quite young for AA (not really, they have teenagers from time to time) but looking back, swallowing my pride and going and stopping was the hardest and the best thing I ever did for myself.

Sobriety is really difficult. Staying away from a drink when you are an alcoholic or have alcoholic tendencies is a far more fundamentally difficult task in every way than trying to hold your alcohol "like a man" and I have infinitesimal respect for anyone who tries it, even if they fail a few times at first. I wear my two year badge (one more month) with a lot of pride, my life has improved in innumerable ways.

My trick is simple, I work part-time in a local hospital in the Intensive Care Unit (on my way to becoming a nurse). Of course intensive care is, well, intensive care, for really sick people, many of whom are young and in their last days of a life cut short by end-stage chronic or acute disease. Some are alcoholics. Almost no one dieing from a condition related to alcoholism dies peacefully, and death from chronic liver failure or any other innumerable conditions linked to alcoholism is one of the worst with prolonged conscious suffering. Its a really sad, and far too common sight to see where I work, and I thank god every day I was able to get sober.

So anyway, to everyone on this thread fighting this fight, stay strong and be proud.

-Patrick
marv

Mountain climber
Bay Area
Dec 24, 2010 - 10:35pm PT
hey Pat, thanks for sharing your experience. I don't know you, but I know friends whose lives were and are wrecked from drinking. Hang in there. I'm pulling for you. I hope it works out.
TYeary

Social climber
State of decay
Dec 24, 2010 - 11:07pm PT
Hank, you got a huge support net here. The bad news is you got to do the hard lead by yourself. I was out with Largo, Dwight and friends one evening a while back, and while we tossed back Black and Tans, John had a diet coke. I could tell he was mildly uncomforatble, but he was tough. You can do this, Bro. You are one tough SOB.
While we have never met, we are brothers in arms.
TY
PS, Merry Christmas!
jtlocal

Trad climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 25, 2010 - 12:01am PT
Hank, just know that you never have to do it alone.
I've been clean and sober since 3-21-01. Best years of my life.
Pray often.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 25, 2010 - 12:27am PT
I committed the dreadful faux pas of offering Largo a beer at the FaceLift a year ago. Just being sociable, not knowing any better, thinking it was polite to offer speakers something to drink. He was quite nice about it, and ended up with orange juice in one of the FaceLift glasses.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Dec 25, 2010 - 02:46am PT
. I was out with Largo, Dwight and friends one evening a while back, and while we tossed back Black and Tans, John had a diet coke. I could tell he was mildly uncomforatble, but he was tough.
----


I was mildly uncomfortable but it had nothing to with folks drinking around me. It doesn't bother me at all and I have no more temptation to drink than I have to jump off the visor on Half Dome - which would amount to the same thing. My compulsion to drink is over, but I know it can come back if I don't work a program. But it's a falacy that all of us lushes just sit around pining over the drink we cannot have. I rarely if ever even think about drinking. It got real bad for me at the end, including drinking in the morning and even when I woke up at night. I'd wake up thinking about the next drink. Can't go back there, ever.

JL
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Dec 25, 2010 - 11:29am PT
Totally with you Largo. I got tired of paying consequences. I tried to quit without working a program and all it did was get me to a point where mentally the bottom dropped out. Literally had a psychic break. Scared the hell out of me. I ended up in the hospital. I worked the program to get that psychic rearrangement. It's been 25 yrs now. I don't miss it either. I never want to go back. EVER!! It is God that stands between me and that drink. I just don't do anything stupid like take that first drink and do the next right thing. I am at peace with myself and the world. I try not to take myself to seriously and am my own best friend. I even laugh at my own jokes. Merry Christmas!
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Dec 25, 2010 - 12:24pm PT
Sobriety needs you.


Damn. I wish I could drink Diet Cokes like Largo. I love the flavor but I'd be up all night twitching.

A tumbler with a bubbling water and a twist and I look like I'm sucking down a gin and tonic or some such. Makes me look sophisticated. Plus it lets me yuck it up with those around me who can drink like normal people. Those normal people fcukers can drink half a beer and leave the half empty bottle on the bar. What's up with that?
Robb

Social climber
The other "Magic City on the Plains"
Dec 25, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
Good thread-very practical and close to home for many of us here. In the event that any of you need further convinsing to quit we buried my older brother this year (cancer). This was due directly to his relapse (w/ alcohol and then smoking) after he had been sober for many years. Quit now-don't look back.
A day at a time guys, one day at a time.
Robb
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Dec 25, 2010 - 02:24pm PT
"Those normal people fcukers can drink half a beer and leave the half empty bottle on the bar. What's up with that?"

It's not normal.....












































....for us alcoholics!




I'm so grateful that, like some above, the desire to have a drink has been eliminated. In 14 years, 4 months, I have never had so much as a glimmer.

Drunk dreams, where I realize(in the dream) that I have been drinking/smoking pot all along and for some reason hadn't made the connection that I was not sober - I'[ve sure had those. I remember the awful feelings I had waking up the first time, at maybe 6 months clean. What a relief to go over - painstakingly - in my morning-befuddled head, to account for my last several hours and come up....clean. But they sure are confusing dreams when you're in the middle of them!

I'm also grateful, as also mentioned above, that I don't believe I am immune to a relapse, and that one *intentional drink can(and probably will) deposit me right where I left off(well, worse, actually, since I had a profession that would support me, even in drinking, when I quit. Not so, today - my life DEPENDS on sobriety!

* I highlight the word "intentional" because it is sometimes an issue that comes up for those new to sober living. Having someone hand you, accidentally or on purpose, a drink with alcohol - taking a sip, or even a few drinks, and realizing "GAHHHH! Booze!" and putting it down is NOT a relapse. Having the realization, and continuing to drink it... unfortunately has been the mode of relapse to many. Unfair perhaps, but there it is. The lucky ones will wake up soon after and make a new run for life without the alcohol. So many are unlucky, though, and the suffering continues.


Happy HOlidays Everyone - Remember to HAVE FUN - and Keep It Clean!
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Dec 25, 2010 - 08:28pm PT
i got clean hands.
you see.
my mind though, is incredibly dirty.

for my twisted and incredulous realities
iron out the straight road as prescribed by my sister's religions
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Dec 25, 2010 - 09:50pm PT
This is a tricky time of year for some folk. My partner drinks and my son really drinks and smokes. But I am powerless over alcohol not just mine but others too. My hat is off to anyone working with it. All the best to all of us doing something about a life threatening problem.

Jaybro, right-on for putting it out there. Let me know if I can be there for you. Looks like we have even more in common than I thought. Happy and sober holidays.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Dec 25, 2010 - 10:52pm PT
Thanks for all the profiles in courage, here.

My friends, I hope the very best for you as the days grow longer and sunnier, one day at a time.

Rick
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Dec 26, 2010 - 01:18am PT
Those normal people fcukers can drink half a beer and leave the half empty bottle on the bar. What's up with that?

No, it's really f&%#ed up! I can't leave half of anything on a counter. Snickers bar or bag a chips. If it's open, it needs to be gone. Working on that one too. That's what made me such a good drunk. I was a human garbage can. If it got me f@#$ed up I would indulged to the nth degree. If I didn't get something to stand in the gap for me, I would have been screwed. I thank my God every day for a new lease on life. I ain't so religious, just tapped the great spirit of the universe. It works good, so I don't question much anymore.

Drunk dreams,

Had a few of those too. Really scary. But the worst one I had recently wasn't about drinking. After getting blown off The Nose this fall I dreamt that I left The Valley and left all my gear on purpose. I arrived home and was explaining to my wife where all my gear was. I woke up in the middle of that shaking. It really freaked me out.
joe boy

Trad climber
california
Dec 28, 2010 - 09:58am PT
I like this thread, I've been sober for 11 years. Wake up every morning, thanking my higher power for another morning not wanting a drink
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Dec 28, 2010 - 11:30am PT
I had a drunk and climbing dream last night. Scary shiz thinking I actually would have once thought the dream might have been a real adventure for the ages.

I woke up grateful and looking forward to the 8-12" of new snow forecast for the local hill and looking forward to the local crags melting and the MTB trails drying out.
Mark Not-circlehead

climber
Martinez, CA
Dec 28, 2010 - 12:58pm PT
This coming April will be my 11th year of sobriety (and almost two years of not smoking).

When I was living in and hanging around the valley in the early 90's, I spent more time at the deli than i did climbing.....alll because of booze.

These days i dream of what I could do if i had that kind of time available to me again. I kick myself now for squandering it.

For those recently sober: Keep it up, no matter what you have to do. It definitly gets easier, and life gets better!!
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Dec 28, 2010 - 01:13pm PT
Great thread here. Congradulations to all who weathered the holiday, sober.

I turned 26 on the 20th of this month, and at 51 years young, it is all too important to stay that way. Awoke this morning a blank slate, did my 11th work, and so far so good. What a life, some climbing this morning with my regular free partner, and be of service when the opportunity arises.

I was able to call my prospective partner for an upcoming winter walling trip, and be totaly honest with him. If he cannot follow any faster, that it just isn't a good idea to procede. That and the fact that Zion is so wet, still. I was so looking forward to a couple of nice lines too.

My wife and son played a pretty funny joke on my eldest daughter, concerning my sobriety, she has never seen me drunk, and cannot fathom me doing anything to jepordize my sobriety. With "medical Marijuana" such the rage here, they were able to convince her that her "Dad" was out in the garage medicating, all legal and all. I was smoking a roll yer own ciggarette, so the photo they tested just convinced her more. She actually got really pissed off that her brother was able to partake with dad, before she did. The youngest daughter laughed and discredited the scam on my oldest daughters Facebook today though. Too bad, I have been laughing about it for two days now. I know, that's over the sick sense of humor line, but hey, there is a step for that, too.

I hope those seeking relief find their way.

Burly Bob
Johnny K.

Mountain climber
Southern,California
Jan 23, 2011 - 11:46am PT
Congrats Hank!Keep it strong!
Bequita

climber
Feb 24, 2011 - 10:32am PT
Nice work Hankster, keep it up!!
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 24, 2011 - 11:40am PT
BANG! Good work.
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Feb 24, 2011 - 12:03pm PT
Nice Hankster, keep it up!

Burly Bob
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Feb 24, 2011 - 12:06pm PT
Good luck, Hank, I'm rooting for you.
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Feb 24, 2011 - 12:52pm PT
Nice job, Hank! I hit eight months next Tuesday.
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Feb 24, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
Good deal Edge, keep it going.


Burly Bob
A-Train

climber
Feb 24, 2011 - 02:28pm PT
Be strong Hank! I respect you not because you climb hard and drink but because you climb hard and face your fears in the process. Well, here you are again, facing fear. You're a master at it, you can do it.

Just remember, breath deep and ignore your mind when it talks to you. That is advice I got on meditation but it applies to climbing hard run outs or staying sober.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Feb 24, 2011 - 02:42pm PT
Excellent....
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 24, 2011 - 02:44pm PT
Happy, Joyous, and Free!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 24, 2011 - 02:52pm PT
11 months over here boss. Have been climbing about 2-3 letter grades harder since dropping the booze anchor. Stronger now at 38 than anytime since I was about 25.
Gal

Trad climber
a semi lucid consciousness
Feb 24, 2011 - 03:49pm PT
I admire you all very much. Good work on something that's tough. Much respect!!!!!
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
SoCal
Feb 24, 2011 - 04:14pm PT
Good work man. Climbing out of that hole is way hard and you're sending it.

Life is good with so much to do and so many opportunities.
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Feb 24, 2011 - 04:22pm PT
Good job, Hank!

A little over 22 years clean and sober for me... Oct 23, 1988.

Was a homeless drug addict the day before that.
enjoimx

Trad climber
Kirkwood, CA
Feb 27, 2011 - 05:05am PT
Wow one month exactly today. Last drink I had was combined with a bunch of dayquill for a cold I had. Just an excuse to get f'ed up, and I got pretty sick from the acetomenophen. It was just another pathetic last straw that made me realize I need to stop. I havent smoked pot in about a year. Last hit I took I felt totally f'ed up, tripping, anxious, and insecure. What is the point? I need to find out what is real and stop trying to alter reality with drugs and alcohol.

I almost drank tonight, but decided to have a protein shake instead.

Strong effort people

John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Feb 27, 2011 - 05:25am PT
Hang tough enjoimx.. How is the powder up there in heaven/kirkwood?
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Feb 27, 2011 - 05:27am PT
hey there say, hankster.... wow, i missed the "counting" to succeess...

god bless....
:)


may your joys be extra special, this year, for successes...
:)
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 27, 2011 - 01:30pm PT
Way to go, enjoimx! You had the drink signal and chose to imbibe in a non-alcoholic drink. SMART! I recall once when I was at a picnic spot and many were drinking and seemed to be having a REALLY good time(I later found out someone had brought along and shared mushrooms and they all were NOT just drunk....hahahah).

It was very hot out, and I just had my Nalgene of water along. I started to feel "left out"(and this was at 10 years sober!) and the drink signal went off - one of the few times ever since I got sober.

I recall having the thought "I wish I had something besides f'ing water." And then I remembered I had some orange juice in the cooler of my van. I went and got it, and also a snack of crackers and cheese I could also share with others(I was feeling "apart" as I said).

One drink of the juice and the drink urge evaporated. One round of offering snacks and I was no longer apart!

Maybe no big deal to "regular" folks, but for an alcoholic, this was a pretty amazing experience to have.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 23, 2011 - 10:07pm PT
Since it came up...... One year today.
Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Mar 23, 2011 - 10:12pm PT
It will be 16 months on the 4th.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Mar 23, 2011 - 11:00pm PT
Congratulations on 11 months, Hankster! Woot!!!!


And HAPPY 1 Year Birthday/Anniversary Jaybro!
jtlocal

Trad climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 24, 2011 - 12:04am PT
Congrats Hankster! I just celebrated 10 years on Monday. What a blessing.
giegs

climber
Tardistan
Mar 24, 2011 - 12:07am PT
Did any of you go from wanting to drink all the time to not really having much interest in it without the internal struggle? Happened to me recently. Like a switch. Weird but good.
Daphne

Trad climber
Mill Valley, CA
Mar 24, 2011 - 02:01am PT
Yay Jay!
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Mar 24, 2011 - 02:19am PT
Keep on keeping yourselves healthy. I love you, Jaybro. For real. Congratulations. :-)
FrankZappa

Trad climber
80' from the Hankster
Mar 24, 2011 - 10:33am PT
We love it when the Hankster is sporting his "Wolf Eyes"!!!
Good work, Man!
Bequita

climber
Mar 24, 2011 - 10:40am PT
Way to go Hankster!!
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Mar 24, 2011 - 12:12pm PT
3 months in just a couple of days.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Mar 24, 2011 - 12:31pm PT
Will do, thanks. You to, ya know.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Mar 24, 2011 - 02:30pm PT
You give me hope about my boy.....
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Mar 24, 2011 - 03:25pm PT
highly overrated!!!!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 24, 2011 - 05:30pm PT
Totally cool hankster! It gets easier. I am almost to my 5 year mark and it is super easy these days. It was pretty hard for the first year. Getting past the urge to celibrate at the one year mark is a hurdle. I don't have any of those fancy chips as i did it on my own...

Been working 50hr construction weeks and can't imagin how tough that would be if I was drinking....
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 24, 2011 - 05:39pm PT
Way to go Mark!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Mar 24, 2011 - 10:55pm PT
Silver - It's you who knows what's up with your drinking, and if it is an issue(well, maybe some close friends and family might also have an idea). It isn't about how much, or how often, a person drinks. It's about how the drinking affects their life.

Congratulations to all the sobriety in this thread. And best wishes for strength and hope for those still struggling.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Mar 25, 2011 - 02:58am PT
Go to meetings; be of service; work the steps always; have a sponsor; have a life.

Nice work, Hank. And everyone.

JL
enjoimx

Trad climber
Kirkwood, CA
Mar 26, 2011 - 11:05pm PT
2 months tonight. I feel great but definately miss the party. Still working on finding ways to get that natural high.
Chris2

Trad climber
Mar 26, 2011 - 11:12pm PT
If the Twelve Step “thing” doesn’t work for you:
http://www.moderation.org/
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Mar 26, 2011 - 11:17pm PT
enjoi, don't worry, it will come in time, when it's supposed to.

Use a support system, follow it. Get a solid support group around you, get a sponsor and work the steps. BREATHE. :)

I just hit 11 years on Feb. 14th. Couldn't be happier. But I couldn't have done it if I hadn't given up and decided I needed help.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Mar 26, 2011 - 11:18pm PT
Really impressed that so many of you can stay sober and still stay in this community.

Those of us who came up in the sixties and seventies also grew up with the idea that climbing was about being a mix of Lord Byron and Mike Hammer. even tougher to quit when the culture valorizes excess.

Props
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 26, 2011 - 11:53pm PT
One Year today.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Mar 26, 2011 - 11:55pm PT
Keep up the good work Hankster, Mark and everyone else out there choosing the alternative lifestyle. I'm coming up on six months on my sabbatical.
Not making any promises and enjoying life a lot more these days.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 26, 2011 - 11:56pm PT
I struggle with my alcoholism, and realize that it hurts, and doesn't help a damn thing. Still, I like to drink...on occasion. Try to take off days inbetween, and that helps keep it under control.

Stay strong you all!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 27, 2011 - 12:02am PT
Awright ECIYA I knew it was pretty soon around now.
Truthdweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 27, 2011 - 02:36am PT
Good ol' twelve steps...where you stop drinking like a drunk, yet still act like one. This may not apply to you but are you sick and tired of being "sick and tired" yet Hank...anyone?
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 27, 2011 - 12:33pm PT
Saw a special on the tube, think it was dateline? about the shila who started that moderation movement. They had to report their consumption at the meetings as part of the program. Naturaly she started lieing to herself and everyone else. Oh yea, i'm sticking to 2 beers a day.... 2 40oz bombers that is ;) She ended up blacking out at the wheel and killing a little girl...

Folks who actually have a real problem are just kidding themselfs if they think that they can make moderation work long term.....
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Mar 27, 2011 - 12:58pm PT
The thing is, tradmanclimbs, that alcoholism is a killer disease. In more ways than one, unfortunately. I, too, don't suggest moderation.

But.

For someone who cannot stomach the AA way(which, ironically, really IS the easier, softer way), at least the Moderation option is something.

Going hardcore AA is not a guarantee either. I know a guy who was "so" sober - a fun, interesting, kind, Big Book thumping BASTION OF SOBRIETY(yes, a BURT BRONSON, but with humility and no misogyny). He had 14 years, and seemed so solid. Got a girlfriend, got dumped, and within 2 weeks he was drunk and in meetings completely out of control. On crack, too. The pain of living had been too much for him, and he slipped.

He DID keep attending meetings. At each one, he was wailing "Help. I can't stop." We did what we could. In the end, who knows why some stupid little thing - an act of kindness, a kick in the ass, a hand-holding as they go to the ER wanting to detox - makes the difference for some. One gives what they can.

And sometimes all that and more, much more, is to no avail. That guy stopped coming to meetings about a month later. I never heard anything more about him.

People dis AA, mainly due to what is perceived as the religious aspect of it. I was lucky to get sober in NYC, where there were SO many groups, meetings, alkies of all stripes to choose from. If "religion" was a problem, it was easily avoided. But in smaller areas, the options are really limited. Unfortunately, some of the religious types really believe that their perception of the program IS the answer. As the Big Book says(about another topic) "They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way." (well, maybe reborn, in some case....).

As well, some people getting sober "see" religious zealotry in AA meetings when the truth is.... it's really more in their heads. They are still sick and suffering(another AA phrase). Some make it through this period, and come to realize they were scared, resisting, and just stuck in some thinking that was not helping. They see that they do NOT need to have a God that is based on some formalized religion, and are able to proceed.

Others just don't make it through that archway.

And even someone seemingly following the AA way with all the Steps, Service and pageantry is NO guarantee.... If the person has a secret(some are closeted doing prescription painkillers, or some other stress-inducing behavior, such as embezzling from work, sex addiction, or whatever), years later the wall can come crumbling down.

It TRULY is ONE DAY AT A TIME with recovery.





Happy One year and ONE DAY ElCapInYoAzz!!!!!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 27, 2011 - 02:58pm PT
Again. I did not do meetings. If they work for you that is great! I also did not substitute pot, pills or caffine, etc. I do feel cured and don't need anyone to tell me that I am not. I also know pretty darn clearly that I would Not be able to drink in moderation for any length of time so I am cured as long as I stay cured and stay away from the sauce.

After 23 years working in bars and restaruntes I can tell you with 100% certanty that moderation will not work for any serious drunk. End of story.

Little sobriety test for serious climbers/drinkers.

Quit drinking Saturday evening after climbing. Stay 100% sober all week. No weed, no pills, no nothing other than caffine or nicotine if you are addicted to those. Make big climbing plans for next weekend. Set your reward beer date for after climbing next Sat. If you can climb hard and good Sat after a whole week of sobriety, drink one or 2 pints (beer not pints of wiggy) and wake up rareing to hike 2 hrs in on Sunday with a full multi pitch first ascent pack (drill, 2 batterys, 4ft prybar, hammer, bolts,pins, aiders, doubble trad rack to 5", 2 ropes, etc, etc then you most likly have your drinking under control.
If that week of sobriety followed by good hard climbing on sat and a known get out of jail free card for Sat night lures you into a bender sat evening and you wake up sunday feeling like you got dragged by a truck for 2 miles and slept it off in the middle of the road to the point that you change your back country FA plans to roadside cragging for sunday. You just might have a drinking problem.........

If you can't get through that first sunday without the sauce you definatly have a drinking problem.. If you fail at any time durring that week you got that drinking problem... If you make it through sat and sunday of the next weekend and get salior drunk sunday night instead if sat night you still have that drinking problem but you do have some mean willpower to make it that extra day.

If you make it through the weekend of hard climbing following the sober week with just a few beers and a great time, go to work monday with a sharp mind feeling battered and bruised from the workout instead of the celibration then chances are pretty good that moderation is not a problem for you...
Chris2

Trad climber
Mar 28, 2011 - 02:06pm PT
tradmanclimbs any reliable links to that horrendous story of the woman in a moderation program who drank, blacked out and killed a little girl?

You seem to be saying something like this would never happen, to an individual participating in AA?

“Naturaly she started lieing to herself and everyone else.” And people don’t lie in AA programs?

I have discussed moderation management around AA followers before; it is interesting to see how angry they get.
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Mar 28, 2011 - 04:14pm PT
got 9 months and relapsed...but back on it again and am at 6 weeks. Gonna keep at it until it sticks.

And Truthdweller, I find your not so veiled comment insulting. Not sure what AA interactions you've had, but many of these "drunks" who have tread this path before me are far from still "acting like one."
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 28, 2011 - 04:21pm PT
Chris. I am not in AA never have been. All I know about those guys is that they smoke a boatload of cigeretts. I quit drinking on my own. If you can drink in moderation more power to you. Heck if I could I would. Thing is though for folks who have a real problem it is probobly not possible..

That show i watched was either on Dateline or maybe the Biography channle. Pretty shure that the woman featured actually started the moderation movement?
Mark Not-circlehead

climber
Martinez, CA
Mar 28, 2011 - 04:34pm PT
For most, it's an all or nothing deal. You are either drinking, or you're not......If moderation works for some, good for them.

I think the danger is in having someone who know they are out of control, and they need help, gravitate towards moderation because it's seems easier, or less painful. I think it would be thousands of times harder (if your anything like me....).

Keep doing whatever works, day by day, until the acuteness of the disease is not as prevalent, and you will have taken the first step in recovery.

It will be 11 years for me in a little less than a month (April 24th). It's not easy, but it's alot easier now...

Congrats to anyone else who has more than a day under their belt.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 28, 2011 - 04:50pm PT
Heck i think moderation would be pretty darn easy. If they let you drink 2 beers a day just buy BIG beers :) Seriously sounds sketchy takeing someone with a real problem and giveing them the opertunity to get sucked into the big lie.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 28, 2011 - 05:15pm PT
I suppose one thing you could try if you want to give moderation a shot is to just drink Heineken Light. That crap is so weak--I think it's weaker than the 3.2 they sell in Colo.
If you drink enough of it you may get a little beer buzz but mostly just gives a headache.
Gene

climber
Mar 30, 2011 - 09:41am PT
Five days!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 30, 2011 - 10:16am PT
We're with you, Gene!
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 30, 2011 - 02:03pm PT
Another option to AA is Rational Recovery: https://rational.org/index.php?id=1 More of an atheists approach to the problem.

This alcoholism is a serious business, it killed my mother when I was 18, has killed several other friends over the years, recently killed a former girlfriend, and I've got 3 friends whose prospects are not great at the moment.

On the other hand, if I were to count 'em up, I've probably lost more friends to climbing.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 30, 2011 - 02:11pm PT
How do you count climbers who drink a lot and off themselves?

There are also 12 step books from buddhist, athest and other perspectives.

Offwhite (below) that's the kind of thing I was thinking of, I guess they're all, more complex...
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 30, 2011 - 02:24pm PT
Jaybro, I guess I'd count Raleigh as an alcohol casualty rather than climbing related, though I understand it was rather more complex than that.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 30, 2011 - 02:53pm PT
It's allways complicated but the bottom line is that the booze never makes it easier.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 30, 2011 - 02:55pm PT
Agreed!
bergbryce

Mountain climber
Oakland
Mar 30, 2011 - 03:02pm PT
I know many more aa'ers who are non-smokers than who do smoke. Many people quit smoking after drinking, it kind of goes with the territory.
For the record, AA is non-denominational and has many agnostic and atheist members.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 30, 2011 - 03:36pm PT
AA has helped an awful lot of people, and I know a number of them make it work despite the theistic incompatibility. I'd personally have an issue with that "higher power" bit, though I know someone who insisted the second to last pitch of Hoppy's Favorite, the 5.9 traverse where the glass was so clean your EB's would squeak, was his "higher power." Folks like me need to know there are other options that can lead to the same place.

Frankly, I'm nothing but impressed by all of you finding ways to control your addictions or lend support to those on that path. I find this thread really inspirational, and when I need a little pick me up to counter the foul taste of internet squabbling I'll go back and start reading this thread again as a reminder that online communities can be positive and supportive and make real differences in people's lives. Thumbs up all around.
Michelle

Social climber
HVRP
Mar 30, 2011 - 03:38pm PT
I didn't all of this thread as I dont have the time right now. However, I had 9 months of sobriety until a couple weeks ago when life hit the fan. of course, I was going through intense therapy, most of it inpatient (thanks VA, you RULE). All kinds of things changed all at once for me, got word I never have to work again and get paid for it, which sounds cool except for the fact that I dont know how to do that.. I got a bitchen apt in Menlo Park and a bunch of neat toys. all kinds of great stuff. then some really bad stuff, ie got dumped by a dude, started even more intense therapy. It all adds up. looking at the abosulte value of stressers above or below "ok", my numbers were getting high. anyways, still sober today. I didn't lose all of the time I had over the years (my friends can attest to my numerous attempts). So I keep trying to plug along. Its tough though, especially lately. anyways, thats my 2 cents

good luck to all
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 30, 2011 - 03:53pm PT
Interestingly enough one of the seeds that planted the bug in my brain to quit drinking was an article that I read on RC.com that may have been linked from a UK climbing site by a climber who was on a kidny / liver ? machine from drinking. He chronicled how the mix of post climbing adrenalin and alcohol was so addicting and how he went from have a few pints on the weekends to being a full time drunk. I could relate to a lot of his experiences.. Especialy the ones where he had to abstain while on expidition in muslam countrys but always had that next drink on his mind. While not required to quit for any religious or work reasons every time I ever took a week or to off to try and give the filters a rest I thought about that next drink a lot!

The message was pretty clear. this could be you hooked up to a machine w/ no heLTH ins racking up bills to dump on the family and dying a horrible slow death. Stomach ulcers and acid reflex also worried me a lot as I experienced both regularly.

Shortly after reading that article I ran into a friend who is a great climber and notorious drunk. Offered him a beer and he said, No thanks, haven't had one in 6 months.. I was like wow! that planted the 2nd seed. If this guy can do and look so healthy then I can do it. Took about a week for the seeds to sprout and suddenly I wanted to quit. Was Not easy but I did it.

Not sure if it is possible to quit if you don't want to? I think you have to come to a place in your life where you really have had enough and you want the change.



Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 30, 2011 - 04:59pm PT
So I keep trying to plug along.

That's all anyone can do Michelle, good work and good luck!
blackfly

climber
Mar 31, 2011 - 02:51am PT
3 years for me and counting.

All that can really be said is that there is a solution for those of us that want it and are willing to do the work. I want it, and I have it. I have no desire to pick up a drink and my obsession has been lifted. The hole in my being, the one that makes me feel different from every other person, is gone. If you are truly alcoholic, you know exactly what I mean when I talk about being different, and how alcohol makes you feel normal.

If you want it and don't know how to get it, pm me and we can talk.





I would also like to add that if you have a smartphone, there is a great app called "AA to go". It is a series of speaker tapes. The app costs $5, but there are over 200 tapes to download and listen to. If you live in a small town like I do where sometimes it's hard to hear the message, this app is for you. I have no affiliation, just love for this application because it has enlightened and inspired me daily.
Michelle

Social climber
Menlo
Apr 1, 2011 - 09:16pm PT
you know, I've noticed a real trend towards sobriety among my contemporaries. still a few left in the bottle, but there is hope for them too.

"normies" I just canNOT comprehend you people..
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 1, 2011 - 10:30pm PT
The message was pretty clear. this could be you hooked up to a machine w/ no heLTH ins racking up bills to dump on the family and dying a horrible slow death. Stomach ulcers and acid reflex also worried me a lot as I experienced both regularly.

When you're dead you're dead, no one can collect.
if you have assets at your death, the debts will be subtracted before anything is disbursed to your legatees, but, that's a little different from saying bills are "dumped" on anyone.

Actually if you die with bills greatly exceeding your assets, you've sort of won.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Apr 1, 2011 - 10:50pm PT
Well....that's one way to look at it. But what of the person hooked up to the machines, still in the body, as bills pile up, creditors call the family, and such?

The body is quite incredible - Like an old Timex, it often takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Death by alcohol itself is usually a very slow, and painful process - even before the liver failure, brain damage and/or mental illness kick in.

That imagery got Tradman to quite - yay for that! There are plenty of people in similar situations. Yay for them!


I also quit, for about a year, after one not even particularly bad drunk. In that year I got my sorry ass out of small town Nowheresville and became a designer in New York City. For me, though, I picked up one night, new in the city, and uncomfortable at a party with my new room mate. It took another few years to realize I was back in an alcoholic state.

When I got sober in AA, I realized that I had been believeing I was sober for something like 5 years. I had somehow *forgotten* to count all those nights of a few drinks here and there(they were drunk nights, not just a single glass of wine type mights).

Funny, how the mind works....



The good news for me is that earlier this week I had probably THE worst day, emotionally, I have had in years, and I got through it. I am actually still recovering from it now 4 days later - still very emotionally tired, and with some painful awarenesses that I am not sure how to address. But it simply did NOT occur to me to drink during that time.

If I pick up, then I lose anyway. I am fully cognizant of that. Without picking up, I have a chance.

For that, I am grateful.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 2, 2011 - 10:18am PT
I got through the loss of a parent without drinking as well as a personal emotional low blow that was an 11 on the ricter scale. drinking because of bad event is just an excuse to drink. It Never makes it better. Drinking NEVER brings the loved one back or changes the circumstances in any good way. The only circumstances that change by drinking are your own and it is ALWAYS for the worst. At the very least you wake up minus the mony you spent drinking...

I am so lucky these days i did not even think about drinking when mom died even though I have family so clueless that they still offer me drinks...
Gene

climber
Apr 4, 2011 - 12:18pm PT
10 alcohol free days. Digging it!

g
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Apr 4, 2011 - 12:20pm PT
Good work, Gene.

Three months for me on the 1st!
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 4, 2011 - 03:51pm PT
Nice job Gene. I went all day Sunday without a drink. First time in a long time. Woot! Not joking here either. I said no and it stuck. There was wine in the sauce for the steaks, but I didn't taste it and there was no alcohol. Didn't use much anyway, steaks that taste that good should just be lightly salted and "Hank'ed" down.


"Hank" shown below, no relation to the person who started this thread, we got the dog from a rescue shelter and he came with the name:

xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Apr 4, 2011 - 03:59pm PT
Go Gene Go. Good for you. Time to send soon also?

Burly Bob
Gene

climber
Apr 4, 2011 - 04:04pm PT
Burly Bob - First steps first.

Thanks all!
g
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Apr 4, 2011 - 04:06pm PT
I think it finally happened this weekend, and I am gonna give up beer. I have only drank a couple beers a month for the last couple years, but REALLY wanted one on saturday. Cracked open a Sierra Nevada and it tasted like sh#t. Hell, sh#t tastes better than that foamy swill. F$%#!

Enjoyed a glass of Wild Turkey 101 after the bad beer experience. Followed by finishing off a bottle of Jack Daniels. Went to the store and bought a bottle of Jim Beam sunday and can't wait. Beer f*#king blows, I am done with that sh#t.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 4, 2011 - 04:18pm PT
Well, at least you know what you don't like...
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 4, 2011 - 04:25pm PT
Enjoyed a glass of Wild Turkey 101 after the bad beer experience. Followed by finishing off a bottle of Jack Daniels. Went to the store and bought a bottle of Jim Beam sunday and can't wait. Beer f*#king blows, I am done with that sh#t.

Obvious troll, no real whiskey drinker would drank those crap brands (JD used to be drinkable until they started watering it down).
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Apr 4, 2011 - 04:28pm PT
Sweet Atchafawhatever, did you know they have I.V. vodka in hospitals? You wont have to worry about the beer.

-Patrick
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Apr 4, 2011 - 05:02pm PT
Congrats to you guys that are just starting. Keep with it - it's going to get better and worse, but in the end it's going to be amazing.

One piece of advice that I will share with you that helped me a lot, is to identify and recognize your "triggers."

Triggers are excuses that you use to pick up. They can be certain times, i.e. "When I get home from work on Friday I always have a beer."

Triggers are usually situational though, you drink when you're in a bar, you drink when you get dumped, you drink when you feel insecure etc.

Sitting down and listing your triggers will help you recognize them for what they are, and hopefully assist you in avoiding them. Remember the simple rule: if you don't pick up the first drink then it's impossible to get drunk.

Keep up the great work!
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Apr 4, 2011 - 05:06pm PT
Blahblah, no troll. I love Wild Turkey and the others. Yea, I include Maker's Mark, Knob Creek, and many others in the line-up. Your opinion is important, so what say you on good whiskey brands???? And none of that single malt horse-shit please. I like real american whiskey for my no carb diet.
Mimi

climber
Apr 4, 2011 - 05:08pm PT
Actually if you die with bills greatly exceeding your assets, you've sort of won. blahblah

Gee thanks for that irresponsible attitude.
Gene

climber
Apr 4, 2011 - 05:20pm PT
A former drunk, Chris Mullin, is going into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Way to go #17, the ultimate gym rat.

g
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 4, 2011 - 05:30pm PT
vegas climber. if you know when the triggers are gonna be there then a glass of ice water does the trick. Its all about haveing a cold drink in your hand at those moments.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 4, 2011 - 06:08pm PT
Blahblah, no troll. I love Wild Turkey and the others. Yea, I include Maker's Mark, Knob Creek, and many others in the line-up. Your opinion is important, so what say you on good whiskey brands???? And none of that single malt horse-shit please. I like real american whiskey for my no carb diet.

Ummm, you kind of pre-busted me, I like scotch, preferably single malts. I liked (and still like) blends like Dewar's (or Walker Black or better for a treat) over ice with a splash of soda, but after getting into some single malts recently, they're just . . . better.
But if you've tried good Scotch and still prefer bourbon, more power to you.

For those of you who are better off without drinking (and that potentially includes EVERYONE who drinks more than very occasionally), good luck!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 4, 2011 - 06:33pm PT
Ocasionaly when folks act like total asses it reminds us why we don't drink.......
perswig

climber
Apr 23, 2011 - 07:21am PT
^^That just happened!

Strong work, all of you.
Dale
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 23, 2011 - 07:55am PT
Yee ha! Killerdeal. It gets easier from here. 1st year is the hardest!
Good job man.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Apr 23, 2011 - 06:50pm PT
Way to go Hank!

Keep on working your program and doing whats working for you!

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 23, 2011 - 06:58pm PT
This is a banner time to be sober.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Apr 23, 2011 - 07:38pm PT
Congratulations Hankster and everyone else trying the alternative lifestyle.
Passed the six month mark a while back, it went pretty quick, hard to hate.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 23, 2011 - 10:52pm PT
Congratulations on one year sober!
Captain...or Skully

climber
Dude, I totally got this.
Apr 24, 2011 - 12:07am PT
Know your strength. Right on, Hank.
Then just be who you are.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
May 17, 2011 - 04:08pm PT
just for hell's sake,
im pushing a sober needle,
6 months long.

i started my clarity quest on easter,
as i bon-fired the ridge above sugarloaf,
dodging rain swells in wee caves.

i stashed a few beers way up,
beneath some rocks.

i'll retrieve them, and mine welcome confusion on hallow's eve.

honestly, though,
the more i study genuine reality,
the more i yearn for animated mental wanderings.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
May 17, 2011 - 04:21pm PT
i stashed a few beers way up,
beneath some rocks.

i'll retrieve them, and mine welcome confusion on hallow's eve.

Do not retrieve them. Leave them to the elements or whoever finds them. You do not need them anymore.

Focus on what is important.



Edit:

just for hell's sake,
im pushing a sober needle,
6 months long.

Makes my day to hear this. Congratulations.
marv

Mountain climber
Bay Area
May 17, 2011 - 09:43pm PT
how does one know if he drinks too much?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 17, 2011 - 10:59pm PT
When the thunderbird is driving you..
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
May 17, 2011 - 11:02pm PT
Congratulations to all the major victories here - every one of them is MAJOR!
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
May 18, 2011 - 10:41am PT
Hank, Jorge & Joanne Urioste would love to see you while they are in town. Try to make it to their show at Neptunes this Thursday night.
Ian Gill

Big Wall climber
Redding, CA
May 25, 2011 - 12:33am PT

Hank - as a fellow recovering alcoholic, I applaud you for jumping right back in after a relapse! I can tell you, every day you go without a drink, you're a winner!! Period! I was an extremely tough learner - took 3 rehabs and a few relapses, but i always went right back.

I, too, used to revel in being able to climb big walls, and still soak up the whiskey, beer, foul jug wine, and anything else I could get my hands on! After all, wasn't that all part of being a Valley "hard man"???

It just plain stopped working for me, and being told what I did during a blackout was appalling! The demoralization was so bad at times, I just plain wanted to die! What a waste that would've been! And how could I do that to my son, who I love more than anything on this earth?? CRAZY!!!!

Now, I wouldn't trade this life for anything! AND, after apparently beating stage 3 colon cancer to boot, I'm going back up the Captain next spring for the first time in MANY years, and I can't wait! LIFE rocks!
enjoimx

Trad climber
Kirkwood, CA
May 30, 2011 - 12:56am PT
4 months on the 26th and I topped out on the Nose to celebrate.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
May 30, 2011 - 01:15am PT
Way to go Enj! It would take me four months just to top out on the Nose... :-(

Keep working at it, don't ever stop :)
Ian Gill

Big Wall climber
Redding, CA
May 30, 2011 - 01:48am PT
That's all you had in 2 weeks? And I'm being serious!! A bottle of vodka a day would be more like it in my case. I do know I never woke up one day and said, hey I think I'd like to try alcoholism - how bad could it be?

F**K me, never again..............

Ive got NO problem with those who can drink normally, but unfortunately that's not me...............

Edit: And climbing with the shakes is BAD news!
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
May 30, 2011 - 05:18pm PT
Good choice Silver!

Hope it works out for you. If you're ready to be done, then you will be. Program works if you work it - kitschy but true.

The fact is that, for whatever reason, no one who works the steps, and keeps reworking them on a daily basis, goes back to drinking. It does work, if you're willing to follw the program exactly.

Get a sponsor, and take it a day at a time.

And to the other comment....I started climbing after I quit drinking. But thinking back to how bad I used to feel in the mornings, I can't even imagine how bad it would be trying to climb with the shakes.
Ian Gill

Big Wall climber
Redding, CA
May 30, 2011 - 07:02pm PT
Yeah, self-sponsorship (with no program) never did quite work out. But I just couldn't ask for help, it was too foreign to me. Believe me, I paid the price - badly!

Finally found out that the program DOES WORK! And life just gets more amazing! Total freedom now - what a concept - and I COULDN'T have done it alone!!!

;-)

Edit:And I never meant to imply that 3 bottles of booze and a case of beer in 2 weeks was not a lot - it is. I just finally had to ask myself those tough questions, like "Do normal drinkers drink like this?"

Like Vegas said, if you're ready to be done, then you will be.
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
May 31, 2011 - 12:59pm PT
The Process

"This program has become a part of me.... I understand more clearly the things that are happening in my life today I no longer fight the process."
Basic Text, p. 162

In active addiction, things happened seemingly without rhyme or reason. We just "did things"; often without knowing why or what the results would be. Life had little value or meaning.

The Twelve Step process gives meaning to our lives; in working the steps, we come to accept both the dark and the bright sides of ourselves. We strip away the denial that kept us from comprehending addiction's affect on us. We honestly examine ourselves, picking out the patterns in our thoughts, our feelings, and our behavior We gain humility and perspective by fully disclosing ourselves to another human being. In seeking to have our shortcomings removed, we develop a working appreciation of our own powerlessness and the strength provided by a Power greater than we are. With our enhanced understanding of ourselves, we gain greater insight into and acceptance of others.

The Twelve Steps are the key to a process we call "life": In working the steps, they become a part of us—and we become a part of the life around us. Our world is no longer meaningless; we understand more about what happens in our lives today. We no longer fight the process. Today, in working the steps, we live it.

Just for today: Life is a process; the Twelve Steps are the key. Today, I will use the steps to participate in that process, understanding and enjoying myself and my recovery.





Rationalizing away our recovery

"As a result of the Twelve Steps, I'm not able to hold on to old ways of deceiving myself."
Basic Text, pg. 176

We all rationalize. Sometimes we know we are rationalizing, admit we are rationalizing, yet continue to behave according to our rationalizations! Recovery can become very painful when we decide that, for one reason or another, the simple principals of the program don't apply to us.

With the help of our sponsors and others in NA we can begin to look at the excuse we use for our behavior. Do we find that some principals just don't apply to us? Do we believe that we know more that everyone else in Narcotics Anonymous, even those who have been clean for many years? What makes us think that we're so special

There is no doubt, we can successfully rationalize our way through part of our recovery. But, eventually, we must squarely face the truth and start acting accordingly. The principals in the Twelve Steps guide us to a new life in recovery. There is little room for rationalization there.

Just for today: I cannot work the steps and also continue deceiving myself. I will examine my thinking for rationalizations, reveal them to my sponsor, and be rid of them.




Copyright NA World Services, Inc

rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Jun 1, 2011 - 07:47am PT
Ian is right.

I like analogies, so...

(Analogy only, as I'm an atheist, but I do have an HP of my understanding)
Think of it like what many Christians believe gets them into Heaven... It isn't just going to church a few times a month, but actually accepting and living that lifestyle. Making the teachings and practices part of one's life. Just going to church a few times a month, doesn't get them anything.

Same thing with recovery... You gotta jump in with both feet, as it doesn't work by osmosis.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 1, 2011 - 08:03am PT
Good move and good luck Silver!

There are a lot of ways to do this. Figure out what works for you. The structure and camaradrie in AA etc is appealing and helpful to the majority, but don't get daunted by programs.

As an atheist, non joiner, that route was just not gonna work for me! I took it on as a discipline, like when I quit eating red meat back in '82; I knew I had the ability to make sobriety second nature. I also had key sober friends with whom I spent most of my time and were large in my life when I quit.

If it's for you, and you want it,you can do it. And you'll save money, Silver. Important. Because on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November, '12 you're gonna owe me 100 clams!
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Jun 1, 2011 - 12:50pm PT
Eleven months today!

I can honestly say that I have not even remotely desired a drink in the last 10 1/2 months, and do not miss alcohol at all.
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Jun 1, 2011 - 01:07pm PT
Good on you, brutha!


~A
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jun 1, 2011 - 01:36pm PT
"It does work, if you're willing to follw the program exactly. "

That's a pretty sure bet there!

But the good news is that one can stay sober without absolutes too; I'm an example, 14 years and some months. August 26th will be my 15th year anniversary(Most likely, I should say. If I can get through what I've experienced this last year and not even THINK about wanting a drink, I feel pretty good about my sobriety. Of course, that doesn't protect me from a relapse, I'm well aware.).

I was horrible as a sponsee in early sobriety(first 5 years - hell I probably still would be a dismal sponsee). I was a little better as a sponsor but never all that comfortable in the dynamic.

I still have some amends to make, and don't honestly feel any great need to make them.

I made twice to three times weekly meetings my first 5 years, and went through a period of a few years where I went nearly every day. But....last meeting I attended was on my road trip this last December, and before that, December 25th 2009.

Yet, I still consider myself an AA'er. Sometimes I feel a little unhappy that I'm not there in the rooms for that person who just walked in and is trying to get sober, but - I am here, 12th Step-Ready, when anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help. I practice the(se) principals in all my affairs.

Do I RECOMMEND someone not follow the AA program to the best of their ability? Nope. But as they say - "Take what you want, and leave the rest," and "It's progress, not perfection."


Happy Day Sober to all those who have given it up!
Roman

Trad climber
Bostonia
Jun 13, 2011 - 12:29pm PT
Day one after a four year relapse. Thank you all for your posts. I read this thread often and I'm finally going to take the plunge again.
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Jun 13, 2011 - 12:31pm PT
Good for you, Roman! Stick with it, it's worth it.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 13, 2011 - 01:30pm PT
I think the key here is what you hear all along - you gotta WORK the program. I can get passive and not work the steps and then I'm in a dry drunk and start right back with alcoholic behavior - in a heartbeat. I have to actively be around those who are sober and working a solid program or I'm cooked. And I can't sponsor myself.

JL
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jun 13, 2011 - 06:13pm PT
Welcome back, Roman!

One day at a time. It gets easier as time goes on. Go a minute at a time for now if you have to - start small and work up.

JL, thanks for the sponsor reminder. I haven't talked to mine in a while, and that comment made me realize it's time to get together for coffee and get caught up.


xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Jun 13, 2011 - 06:33pm PT
Welcome back Roman, glad a little chatter can help someone. And thanks to all posters, reminding me to stay connected, and lastly, congrats to all who are celebrating time, enjoy.

Burly Bob
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Jul 1, 2011 - 10:24am PT
One year clean and sober today!

Coincidentally, this is also the same day I celebrate 50 trips around the Sun...
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Jul 1, 2011 - 10:37am PT
Congratulations Edge!
Nice condition to arrive at 50 in.
Keep up the good work.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 1, 2011 - 10:42am PT
Happy birthdays, Edge!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jul 1, 2011 - 09:42pm PT
happy sober birthday and regular one!

post #421! 420 was before my time, but BITD I sure smoked a lot - an oz every 3 days(from 14 years old to 21....)
nevahpopsoff

Boulder climber
the woods
Jul 1, 2011 - 11:16pm PT
yo, edggie-poo, good on ya!!!!!!!!!!!!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jul 21, 2011 - 04:31pm PT
This morning while having coffee, a familiar feeling came over me. A sense of sadness, loss, malaise...

I knew within moments exactly what was going on. It's nearing the end of July, and for the last several years this period of time always brings me sensations of "low."

In about one more month I'll be celebrating my 15th year sober anniversary, but the month before I got sober was my "bottom," and though it was cake compared to what many have suffered before taking that first step towards sobriety, it was a period of confusion, loneliness, and escalating risk in behaviors.

I respect this period of time, and don't fight the "reminder" feelings that come up. But I have to take care to stay on the right side of the drink. It's important for me to acknowledge my "ghost of Christmas past"(as the Big Book says: we do not regret the past, nor wish to shut the door on it) but at the same time to be conscious that that IS the past. That I was fortunate in not succumbing further to the disease, and that I have a new way to live now. One which has shown me a wonderful life, filled with interesting experiences, insights and people.

Though each year the anniversary phase of of my bottom comes at different points, it is usually about a month in duration. Countdown to my anniversary of 8/26 seems to have begun - one day at a time. I choose to celebrate today, send best wishes to all those walking the sober path, and extend the hand of AA, by proxy, to anyone wishing to take the first step. Welcome to sobriety!

Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jul 21, 2011 - 04:51pm PT
Hope your friend heeded your advice.

Happy - remember, but please don't let the "self-talk" obsess on the negative. Wishing you all the best.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jul 26, 2011 - 05:58pm PT
Cool Deal Edge! Aug 25th will be my 5th. Some ass hat at work handed me a beer today. they just don't get it... Its not like I am not thursty as hell after a 10hr construction shift. Don't really need that crap but don't want to make a stink and stand out more than i already do......
Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Jul 26, 2011 - 09:33pm PT
It is the social part I found I missed most. Now I just stop after work and drink an Odouls or two and that's all I need. I no longer want to alter my state of mind, I just want to hang out. I had four at Curry last week and drove back to camp without being paranoid :-) Life is good.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Aug 5, 2011 - 12:27am PT
ah hell i've been undrunk for four months now,
it's been not heaven, though its not been difficult,

clarity is like a sunk ship,
and i yearn, yearn for sideways travel
and i think i might attain a sway at the phish show in south shore next week....
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 5, 2011 - 10:55am PT
Well, waddaya know! Good for you, I guess Norwegian(since most people don't do "undrunk" if it's akin to something like an "I haven't touched broccoli on 4 months!" thing.


I'm in the countdown to 15 years sober. The 26th is the day, and so that is 3 weeks from now. I am cognizant each day, during this time, of the last month of my drinking life. It is a weird time, each year, as I pass through this almost required state. It's not intentional; it just occurs. The anniversary of my bottom.
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Aug 5, 2011 - 11:05am PT
what a god awful roller coaster! i'm sober for a few months, go to meetings, then I drink and its off to the races...no meetings, cloudy mind, body racked with the after effects of too much alcohol, and tortured with thoughts that my whole life is nothing but an absolute f**k up.

back to my meetings again this week, and went to the Dr and got a prescription for antabuse. one minute of strength to pop the pill sees me through 23 hrs and 59 minutes of weakness.....
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 5, 2011 - 11:09am PT
Good luck, anxious melancholy. I know of plenty who have had it like you. There IS hope, so long as you keep coming back. My thoughts are with you today.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Aug 5, 2011 - 09:14pm PT
Welcome back, anxious.

Just keep at it until it sticks. I hope the meds help. Remember to get a sponsor as soon as you can, try to find one who has a similar past if you can.

Try to find the triggers that make you pick up, and avoid them like the plague.

Happi, I'm so pleased to see your sobriety date coming up soon! You're an inspiration for me. Thank you!
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Aug 5, 2011 - 10:21pm PT
Wow. Just read every damn post. Good on you guys, keep it up, eh?
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 25, 2011 - 06:31pm PT
Today is the 15th year anniversary of my last day hungover.

Yesterday was the anniversary of my last drink.

Tomorrow, August 26th, will be the 15th year anniversary of my first day sober.

It's pretty likely that I will make it. I've been one of the lucky ones for whom the desire to drink was actually lifted. Even in my darkest moments, so far, the thought of a drink to deal with is has not been an attractive proposition, and rarely even one that comes to mind.



YAY!!!!

Gene

climber
Aug 25, 2011 - 06:34pm PT
Major respect, HG!
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Aug 25, 2011 - 06:57pm PT
Let the sun shine in.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Aug 25, 2011 - 07:03pm PT
i want to die a lonely and wretched soul,
curled up against some pointy rocks somewhere.
alone with the silence and spectacular view
of my mountains.

not adorned with medals, or tattoo's.
with nothing in the bank and ragged shoes on my feet.

i wanna lead a foul life, respectable only to those
whom must receive my candor.

for now i am sober, because the health and well-being
of my children and wife benefit from my clean breath.

one day i'll again be the only soul in my boat
and then i'll aim for the roughest seas with my case of scotch.
nevahpopsoff

Boulder climber
the woods
Aug 25, 2011 - 07:25pm PT
dude, that's dark.....
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Aug 25, 2011 - 07:34pm PT
Happie...your post brought a tear to my eye. Congratulations.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Aug 25, 2011 - 08:11pm PT
Way to go Happie!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 25, 2011 - 09:07pm PT
I was just about to search for this thread and supprise! It's on the front page. Today is my 5th Bday.. I forgot all about it untill about an hour ago. been super busy with work and a forced demo/reno of my bathroom. Havent had a functionig shower in 3 weeks. Good thing I have a pond handy.. Had a dream last night that I was drinking. Those dreams scare me pretty bad untill i wake up and everything is ok.. Must have subconciously known that today was the day.. Its a bit anti climatic as actually sobered up in June of 2006 but had 2.25 beers on august 25th of that same year so I have to wait the extra 6 weeks to be official every year...

Good job happy and everyone else that has made the leap....
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 25, 2011 - 09:19pm PT
Thanks Hankster!
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Aug 25, 2011 - 09:48pm PT
hank that is not poetry,
that comes straight from my owner's manual.

my scripture, he.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 26, 2011 - 12:01am PT
In about one more month I'll be celebrating my 15th year sober anniversary

asdf. i'm back at square one with 15 days. wtf.
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Aug 26, 2011 - 12:16am PT
Don't let it sweat you BVB.. It took at least 4 tries for me until sobriety finally took. I say 4 tries because I don't remember exactly how many times I quit, before it took. Those years are sort of a fog. I didn't do AA, so I don't have any reminders. I just remember going back to drinking a bunch of times before I had finally had enough.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Aug 26, 2011 - 06:19am PT
Tradman, grats on the bday! Way to go!

Bvb, man, it's all good. The important thing is that you're back. Just keep at it, sometimes it takes a while, that's all. You can do it!

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 26, 2011 - 07:03am PT
I did it on my own. no meetings. The first six weeks is the hardest. the first six months is hard, the one year thing is hard but after that it gets progressivly easier....
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Aug 26, 2011 - 08:09am PT
I'd agree with that timeline, Trad.

After a year things got way easier for me. I very rarely have bad days anymore...like maybe once a year. I'm thankful for that.

I went to meetings for a while, but I had a hard time dealing with the drama and hypocrisy that crops up in a lot of places.

I still work a version of the program on my own, and I know they are there if I need them. And I still have numbers of active people in recovery I can call at anytime if needed. Having that lifeline available is good insurance, for me at least.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 26, 2011 - 09:44am PT
Happy fifteen, Happie!
And happy eleven to another taco who might read this.
Beautiful day I'm going for a run!
Linda Jarit

climber
ca
Aug 26, 2011 - 11:53am PT
Thanks Jay : )
Actually, two more days to 11....pretty sure I'll make it!!!
Congrats Happie on your 15 years - that's awesome! To you too bvb-you're not starting from square one, we all carry all of our experiences with us. Stay with it, it gets easier.

Blessings to all.

-L
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 26, 2011 - 12:21pm PT
BVB - You're the most important person on the thread today. 15 days IS FIFTEEN DAYS! Do NOT focus on the slips, keep your mind on today. You are clean alive. Today you have a chance. Take that chance and stay sober to see what miracles may be in the pipeline down the road. You're in my thoughts - my hand is in yours and hanging on today. FYI - I will be out west again this winter. and look forward to maybe getting together again with you!


Tradmanclimbs - Congratulations of 5 years! Yay for you!


And so far, so good, today. I am in the sewing room, making chalkbags. I feel good.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 26, 2011 - 12:22pm PT
Well Linda, I knew I was close...

Spectacular run this morning, extended Turtle Rock Trail in Vedauwo, 5 fingers.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Aug 26, 2011 - 12:43pm PT
Great stuff everyone.

Weege, dude I love your strange and beautiful writings.
But I gotta say that I think alone in the pointy stones might not be the best way to go.

Maybe in something warm and cozy, surrounded by the embrace of your children, proud to have helped raise such a fine man.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 26, 2011 - 10:28pm PT
Happie. hope you had a great day!
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Sep 1, 2011 - 06:04pm PT
I’d just like to give big props to those of you who are battling with this demon, and pray and hope you stay the path.

It’s with a heavy heart I write about the loss of my youngest son’s godmother. She was a very good woman, who had a tough life she was the oldest of 13 siblings and acted as their mother due to her mothers ailments, was put in a concentration camp by US forces during WWII (to “protect” Alaska natives from the Japanese) her husband was tragically killed in a construction accident and she had to raise a teenage son alone, not to mention facing prejudice as an Alaskan native. Unfortunately the last few years she found her way back into the bottle.

Monday afternoon her son talked to her on the phone and could tell she’d been drinking. Early in the evening a neighbor stopped by and found her passed out and not breathing. She was revived by paramedics, rushed to the hospital and put on life support. We visited her Tuesday night and were told she had brain damage from the unknown time spent w/o breathing, but the extent of the damage was unknown. She was taken off life support yesterday and passed away last night.

That’s no way for anyone to end to their life, and no matter how alone you feel, or how much pain, there are others out there that care about you, even if they don’t show it.

I was pondering how we as a society can look from the outside and casually dismiss someone as just another drunk. I never thought of her that way, but I know I’ve been guilty of seeing our homeless population in that light. Everybody has a story, parents, possibly children, siblings, friends, they aren’t just a nameless faceless drunk. And you know what, those little old ladies, they need the same love, attention, comfort and companionship as our spouses, significant others and children. As a reminder, be compassionate and reach out to your family and friends that face this same battle. My wife and I are left feeling that if we’d been more involved in her life perhaps she wouldn’t have fallen off the wagon.

So don’t put off visiting with mom, day, grandma or grandpa while you have the chance.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Sep 1, 2011 - 06:31pm PT
"My wife and I are left feeling that if we’d been more involved in her life perhaps she wouldn’t have fallen off the wagon."

Please don't let that feeling take you down. As you probably know, people who have others involved in their lives in great depths still succumb to alcoholism, and people whose loved ones have thrown them out for good stay sober. This sort of thing just is not a factor as to who stays sober and who doesn't. Unfortunately it sometimes seems like a dice roll as to who makes it through a day sober and who picks up a drink. As the Big Book says, the disease is "cunning, baffling, and powerful."

I am sorry for your heartbreak.

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 1, 2011 - 08:17pm PT
Hoh man Tolman!Condolences to your family and all in her life.
Don't knock yourself out, nobody can do everything, nor should they try to.

That is a very good point you made and something important for all of us to take from this.
We/They're all somebody and somebody's!
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Sep 2, 2011 - 08:10am PT
though ailment is often up-stirred,
sometimes the mental breezes must blow.
they must.

it is sad, though it is not sad.
some hearts float thru life.
some have to be drug through life.

the women of paul's acquantance
is a warrior spirit now, in my opinion.
she wrote her here-life story to the best of her ability.
wobbles, and bumps and glories and prides and shames and sorrows.

all these, in her script, glided up and down and across days,
with magnificent pen strokes.

i cast no ill-judgement upon her, and i wish her well in her next quest,
as she'll have borne into her the knowledges gained everywhere's.

live well. live ill.
life lives thru itself.
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Sep 2, 2011 - 09:46am PT
I quit drinking.



About 9 hours ago.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 3, 2011 - 07:17am PT
Love your people as much as you love your pets.

Be as nice to stray people as you would to a stray doggie..
Asiajack

climber
Lots but mostly in Asia
Sep 12, 2011 - 08:14pm PT
Hankster and all--

Thanks for the amazing post. I was up on and off all night reading the entire thing, which was not too hard as I am insomniatic after coming off a long one. As before, and before, and before, ad infinitum.

I think I am serious this time. I have always climbed rocks to get to the rock top, but think I have finally reached the opposite. I cannot do it anymore. Hearing these stories, and many from people I've never met but have great respect for (previously on the rock but now in an entirely new light), is truly inspiring. I am not sure why I didn't find this thread earlier, but I am usually on rc or summit post or mountain project. I had heard some heavy hitters use supertopo but it took this thread to convince me :)

We spent the summer in the US which made things easier (though not without painful episodes!) for me due to the clean air, the driving (DUI is a strong disincentive..), and the proximity to nature. Just got back to the urban hellhole I have called home for many of the past years, was good for a week or so, decided for who knows what non-reason to go for post gym climbing beers, end up losing my beater bike and missing our planned excursion to some remote islands to put up some routes, getting in a single half-drunken gym session instead. The post about wasted years in Yosemite-- I could write volumes on this.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is OSAT (http://www.osat.org/); which seems like a very good idea to me. I am hoping to do something like this here as I grew up with AA (my Mom) and have resisted it despite the probable decades I have needed something like that (I recall smoky meetings, bad coffee, religious delerium, and more than anything shame at my Mom). I have always and increasingly tried to use climbing, or skiing, or mountain biking, as a way to temper my demons and when I do it right it works. If there is anyone out here who is interested in this, please let me know!!!

Wish me luck and Hankster and others-- please keep counting the days and months and years (when you posted that one I was truly moved as I have never gotten much beyond a month) and for Happiegirl decades. I think most climbers are competitive in their own ways by nature, and this post for me can be a YDS/V grade (or maybe NCCS as we are trying to go long!) and I will check it often, both in times of joy and in those of trouble. Keep up the beautiful ascent!!!

Studly

Trad climber
WA
Sep 12, 2011 - 08:33pm PT
Kudos and a salute to those who make the effort to be sober. It is worth it, life is good.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Sep 12, 2011 - 10:02pm PT
rockjox the universe continues to wobble and wallow and sway and stray
despite your six pack input.

i know cause i always get motion sick,
though im often in a motionless state.

it takes a lotto my nerve just to f*#kin blink.

dry eyes support know sorrow.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 12, 2011 - 10:22pm PT
Rox FOAD

Talking about our drinking is therapy for us. for whatever reason it seems to help.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Oct 7, 2011 - 12:07am PT
the weed harvest is in so i am back off the bottle.

too much vitamin depletion and seratonin uptake can be limited,

now pass the bong and don't give me a hard time about substitution,

ozzy has a new book out on the 11"th, called

"Trust Me, I am Doctor Ozzy"

Trust Me, I'm Dr. Ozzy: Advice from Rock's Ultimate Survivor (shortened to "Trust Me, I'm Dr. Ozzy") is the upcoming autobiography of Ozzy Osbourne,[1] vocalist of Black Sabbath and solo singer. It is the sequal to his 2010 release I Am Ozzy, the book chronicles his drug abuse and survival stories about 40 years of Ozzy's drug and alcohol abuse.[2][3][4] The book was co-written by Chris Ayres, because of Osbourne's dyslexia.


Trusty Rusty

Social climber
Tahoe area
Oct 7, 2011 - 12:37am PT
Best to each of you on the path. . .to yourself. If you find it, the urge to medicate evaporates, if you don't, it never leaves. Bill and the Dr. got hold of something real, fact is most everyone could use a waltz through the steps over one malady or another. Good job, keep it simple and laugh, there's battles ahead for all.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Oct 10, 2011 - 03:30pm PT
One year today on the extended sabbatical, no beer, no hootch.
It went by shockingly quick but then again, that's life after fifty.
Thanks to the Hankster and others who make this thread a helpful place to check in for a reminder and some inspiration.
Best wishes.

PB
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Oct 10, 2011 - 03:40pm PT
Way to go Chief! Happy birthday!

Thanks for the inspiration. This has been one of my toughest weeks in all of my sobriety, and I needed that boost. Keep at it!
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Oct 16, 2011 - 10:51am PT
hay thanks, hank.

i comin up on my six month monument,
and jus' now the dawn was showing me her breasts,
i always git a liddle 'cited when she does that so here comes
a lapse of all intelligable thought,

dawn finds me dragging myself thru some uncomfortable moment.

a little liquor and life becomes a slide, the passage thru eased of greased, but all moments become downhill and the momentum gathers among itself and no longer is you driving but instead your riding your decline as all the faces you once knew and loved speed by on the periphery of your once wicked vision and they all wear lost hope on their faces cause they knew you could have been but they also knew that you didn't know how though it was a beaufiful effort, yours. galiant and defiant,
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Oct 16, 2011 - 10:58am PT
Love this thread. Everyone here is just awesome.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Oct 16, 2011 - 11:14am PT
Funny I was just thinking about this thread this morning.

Fell off the wagon, or intentionally climbed down from it. Now comes the job of climbing back on it.

Here goes......

Day 1.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 16, 2011 - 11:23am PT
Good Job Chief!

Norweigan, Did yhou read naked luch too mANY times?

You do have serious creative mind. Should put some of your words to music. If you do not already play buy a cheap gituar and stART learning..... i did not start playing untill my mid 30's

Old Dawgs can leARn new tricks....
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Oct 18, 2011 - 09:23pm PT
Rox FOAD
Harsh!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 18, 2011 - 09:36pm PT
Anyone who gives a recovering alcoholic or drug adict crap for being on the wagon is a complete loser. That was not harsh at all just richly deserved.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Oct 18, 2011 - 10:02pm PT
I've heard it said that the wagon is just a vehicle from one drunk to another and that never is a long time.
I've also been called a wagon burner.
It's good to mark a calendar and measure time spent trying to live differently, sometimes it's a great motivator. At the same time, it doesn't tell the whole story and in some cases doesn't amount to a real improvement.
We each have to find our own way and few of us get anywhere worthwhile without falling now and then. The important thing is to get up again and keep climbing.
Best to all.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Oct 22, 2011 - 08:13am PT
4 days shy of 6 months sober,
i came out of the fog.

i showed a friend around the leap,
climbing a few of the classics.

all day i lugged my daughters pink camelback up routes,
my partner wondering of my mental module.

within the pink i carried a secret, actual 96 ounces of mobile wobble.

last route of the day, atop main wall as the sun is completing its summit walkoff,

i open the backpack and pull 2 tall boys out and raise a summit cheer with my friend.
as i had two more tall beers, i offered them to another team of friends that were summitting a route on central wall. they declined so we's drank up.

my six months sober was a good journey, as all journeys are.
i sorted thru my relationship with the alcohol drug.
and now i better understand it.

im not one for absolutes. nevers and forevers make little sense to me.
life must be allowed its own course, me riding shotgun,
for fvch if im driving this dream!

i can drink and i can still live onward.
conducting a silent life, pitted with screams of insanity.

i wish that all of us accept our way and give up on rewriting the future while dreaming of the past.

cheers. sorrows. and everything elses, too.


"....everybody prayin and drinkin that wine
i can tell the queen of diamonds by the way she shines
come to daddy on the inside straight,
well I got no chance of losin this time..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWBpUy87lFs
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Nov 5, 2011 - 08:15am PT
I went in the Liqour store a few days ago to buy my boss a hippy beer in one of those big bottles for his Bday. it mad me physicaly ill to be in there. Heart was pounding, adrenilin was surgeung and I felt sick to my stomach. Made it through intact and sober but it was freaky...
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Nov 5, 2011 - 08:29am PT
aint it crazy how conditionable we are.
we got emotional memory,
physical memory,
and (some) mental memory.

all this memory and i sturggle with today
because yesterday is still boss,
and i enter tomorrow cloaked in
three past lives,


so i try to outwit my physiology.
i coached my psyche toward a habit of no liquor.
6 months i kept outta of the can.
my self adjusted to this new environment
and began to employ other (f*#ked up) mechanisms
at my navigation thru.

i got a poor diet.
i shouveled the coffee at my head.
my sleep cycle dried, and its edges curled in.

but i never reached for a beer.
now im free to drink again,
but i got no urge to.
so i don't.
now i gotta fix that other shite,
but who knows she's controlling my ship.

are you da wind?
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Nov 5, 2011 - 09:23am PT
Glad you made it out with only the beer for your boss, tradmanclimbs!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Nov 20, 2011 - 07:23pm PT
Pre-holidaze bump!

This is the start of the triple threat to sobriety: Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years.

These holidays can be trying for anyone, but for the person struggling with alcohol it can be a particularly difficult time. Some are lonely, spending the time by themselves; others would rather do that! But instead they have obligations to meet which are tough to cope with.

Let's be here and stick together, for those who can use the support(that would be all of us!) during these next few weeks.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Nov 20, 2011 - 07:36pm PT
anyone want to simul-dream?
i can trail cause i never fall from dreams,
no matter how desperate the become.

you lead cause my dream navigation skills lack,
i couldn't tell you how many
unplanned bivies i've endured,
stuck in a dream for weeks,
months, forevers.

it'll be cool to summit with whomever
joins me.

you got the dream rack?
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Nov 20, 2011 - 07:45pm PT
Dang! I'm going to be a year in about six weeks! I miss it sometimes, that good ol feeling of tipping a nice beer up to your lips. Although, don't miss wanting the fourth beer after having the third...
wack-N-dangle

Gym climber
the ground up
Nov 20, 2011 - 07:48pm PT
Weegee,

From your surf/turf photo, it looked like you did fine solo. I haven't done one step of alpine, let alone 12. Still, if you are looking for some backup, there surely are some sponsored climbers here. To your (not your's) dream summit, one step or day at a time.

cheers!!!

It looks like coming down can be the hard part. fek
wack-N-dangle

Gym climber
the ground up
Nov 20, 2011 - 07:57pm PT
Hankster posting when I try to link the fek thread. Kismet alert, where is the braun? Oh yeah, note to self, ground fertile mind.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Nov 21, 2011 - 12:59am PT
Weegie, with that clip and quote choice, 'Loser', were you being ironic? Or asking for help?
laughingman

Ice climber
Seattle WA
Nov 21, 2011 - 01:05am PT
Had a guide once (super chill chilean dude) who told me he once CUI (climbed under the influence).
Apparently at high altitude (he was in the andes at 19,000+ feet) it is much easier to get drunk. After summiting he and his partner split a bottle of wine. The affects of the booze became apparent quickly.

good times
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Nov 21, 2011 - 02:06am PT
yeah don't sell out just becuase of some stupid holiday.

the reason they invented thanksgiving is because man is a jive ass turkey,

so don't let the turkeys at the table get on your wick.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Nov 21, 2011 - 03:01am PT
Right now, getting in shape and crushing my old warm-ups is WAY more desireable and obsessive and important and vital to me than getting loaded and silencing the committee of H8'ers in my head who keep trying to convince me I'm a f*#k up.

F*#K THEM. I've got a sprained ankle and a buncha gobi's that are far more satisfying than any 25-year-old single malt I've drained in the last 5 years. The sw0le train is leaving the station, and I'm in the cabin highballin' the motherf*#k.

This is a good thing. Where's my pull-up bar?!
mcreel

climber
Barcelona
Nov 21, 2011 - 03:43am PT
I'm at about the 3.5 year mark now. It took me about 5 years of off and on to finally make it work. One thing I remember when trying to quit was the fear that life always sober would be a little boring or without color. That's not true at all, after finally sobering up I found a lot of satisfactions in things that I was just never getting around to when I was drinking.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Nov 21, 2011 - 05:43am PT
Good job Mark! the one year is a bit tricky but hang in there is keeps getting easier as time goes by...
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Nov 21, 2011 - 05:54am PT
hey jaybro,
im always goofing here.
for the being time i need no assistance
keeping on track.

i know where to go if i need help:
out my front door, left turn to the front range.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Nov 21, 2011 - 01:22pm PT
I know you are, just checking.

Always waiting for your verse.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Nov 25, 2011 - 02:39pm PT
Day after Turkey Day...anyone working off what they hope will be their last hangover?

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Nov 25, 2011 - 02:51pm PT
made it thru T day,

next stop - xmas

then new years

49 ers playing christmas eve , life is semi cool.

remember, you can take Salem out of the country but...














you can't take the country out of Salem.



oh crap, i got post # 502.

watch your back.

the cops have no power unless you do something wrong.

keep them powerless.



happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 24, 2011 - 04:02pm PT
Brandon Bump(inside Taco joke)!



xmas eve - Be careful out there! Some suggestions for the newly sober(even if today is day 1, hour 1, minute 1)

If you will be around alcohol or people who cause stress(good or bad!):
 Be sure to eat - do NOT go to a party thinking you can hold off. Better to have food in you than to get there and have to fight the line for what ends up being a bowl full of chips and the dregs of some too-long-sitting dip!

 Have some sweets stashed, in case you have cravings. A couple bite-sized candy bars or an apple can do wonders to stop the craving in it's tracks.

 keep your non-alcoholic drink safely in sight. Don't put it down and come back. Like luggage in an airport, all little plastic cups look the same...

 when someone asks if you'll have a drink, the correct answer may be "Yes, thank you! Do you have cranberry and seltzer?" A "drink" doesn't have to mean there is booze involved!

 If you have a sober friend or two - have their numbers handy. Sneak a "Oh my f-ing god I cannot take another second of this" call in the bathroom if it gets difficult to stay straight.

 To destress if the party is getting to be too much - You can always offer to give the dog a walk if you need to get out. Harried hosts will really appreciate that, as they probably know damned well Fido needs it, but cannot seem to get the time to do it. OR just go for a walk around the block! "Getting fresh air is COMPLETELY acceptable. If you need a rationale, you can say you are feeling drowsy and want to perk up.

 It is OK to walk away. You have to know when to hold up, fold up, walk away - RUN. If everyone is getting plowed, get the hell out of dodge. You would be surprised how wonderful a piece of hot apple pie ala mode at the diner on a holiday can be. As they say in AA - the miracle can be found at the bottom of the coffee cup. They often refer to the ones at AA, or the diner with other AA's after a meeting, but I have the feeling it can be found at the bottom of the coffee cup that was poured by the waitress at the diner, working the holiday and maybe REALLY gald to have YOUR company....

 AA IS there for you. You don't have to take it whole hog to take advantage. You can use it in a pinch. You can just "check a meeting out, just this once." You can even go to online meetings! Link: http://www.aaonline.net/


Best Wishes for a day Sober - Today - to all!


tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 24, 2011 - 04:14pm PT
thanks for the bump happie!

If the craveings get too much go for the ice cream! serously a big part of the craveing is your body is used to a lot of sugar from the booze so ice cream works like a charm :)
T2

climber
Cardiff by the sea
Dec 24, 2011 - 04:29pm PT
Seven years sober for me today.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 24, 2011 - 04:32pm PT
WOOT!

Both for 7 year annivirthday (I'm bicoastal, CA'ian AA's have birtdhays, east coasters anniversarys - hahaha)

And for ICE CREAM! mmmmmm
kc

Trad climber
the cats
Dec 25, 2011 - 12:42am PT
Did we lose Brandon?

Hang in there, buddy.
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Dec 25, 2011 - 11:13am PT
Just celebrated 27 years on the 20th, by working hard all day. Wahooo.
Burly Bob
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Dec 25, 2011 - 12:07pm PT
Just returned from an AA Meditation meeting. Great to be sober.

Congrats to all my bros and sisters out there working the steps! W/out you I'm hosed.

JL
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Dec 25, 2011 - 12:10pm PT
Yay, T2! :-)
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 25, 2011 - 12:36pm PT
Made it. Whew. SO wanted to get loaded.
T2

climber
Cardiff by the sea
Dec 25, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
Thanks Mellisa and Happiegrrrl :)

Nice work bvb I know the felling brother.
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Dec 25, 2011 - 12:56pm PT
XMas is always one of my toughest times.

I'm so grateful for sobriety today, here's to being sober tomorrow!

Thanks for the experience, strength and hope of others on this thread, some of whom may be heroes, but are really just alcoholics like me, who are just working to stay clean as well.

In six months it'll be 20 years for me. Who woulda thunk it?

There's some good sobriety here!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 25, 2011 - 07:10pm PT
Coming home from a wonderful christmas with my sister and her inlaws I got to see two exteems. On one end A great family dynamic on a dairy farm where most everyone except gramps has their act pretty well together and everyone has a safe place to live. On the other end of the spectrum I stopped for gas driveing home and around the corner on the sidewalk of a closed store was a shitfaced homeless person smokeing a cigerete with nothing but a few plastic bags, a radio and a dirty blanket. It is full blown winter. Temps were in the teens and snowing. I bought him a cup of coffe mixed with hot cocco, and a cheeseburger. I also gave him my bag of christmas cookies.

There but for the grace of god go I.....
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 25, 2011 - 07:21pm PT
I;m sitting in the JT Saloon right now - drinking COFFEE!

I am so grateful to be one of the lucky ones. I haven't had any real craving for a drink since I went from saying(at meetings) "I'm Terrie and I'm an alcoholic, but I'm not sure I'm ready to quit yet" to "I'm Terrie and I'm an alcoholic." That was somewhere in the first 3 weeks, but I have no idea when! hahah

In these years, it has only occurred to me "I could drink" when I am hurting with a broken heart(and right now it is pretty hurting), but I have been aware that it is with a sort of an "And THEN they'll see!" mindset. Thank the Universe that my mind is clear enough to know....they won't see. They won't even think about it. I'll be back drinking, and they'll still be gone.


Still, I am aware - it is one day at a time, and all it takes is momentary lapse and - the drink is down and I'm no longer sober.

Best wishes for all those living a sober life, and also a spiritual hand outreached for those who are ready to put down the drink. We are here; join us!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 25, 2011 - 08:08pm PT
You guys are awesome.

Thanks all for the kind and insightful words.

Christmas can be rough, it is for me this year.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 25, 2011 - 11:05pm PT
Lois - You are very welcome to use any of the stories about myself which I put out, and I don't care if you include my name(Terrie - there are probably a few other Terrie's in the world - hahaha).

That is the 12th Step, working through me, and without my input. It came to me at some point in sobriety, via meditations, that this being of help to others by proxy could be considered the "anonymous" in AA. A pretty cool way to view it. I can tell you this - from being in NYC AA, with it's many visitors the world over, and some fairly high-profile individuals in the rooms, there are many - many - people who have made great positive impact in this world who are recovering alcoholics.

People whose lives have been in the gutter, who have done things they were terribly ashamed of, people who others had written off as hopeless, useless, dangerous - who have gone on to be highly productive, respected individuals in society. They are able to do so because they are sober - yet most people have absolutely no inkling that Such and Such *great person* spends time sitting in a room listening to people counting days...




Back to the thread - the tough times aren't over, for those struggling through the holidays. The day after xmas can be very difficult for many. Maybe got into a scrape at the family get-together, again. Maybe didn't show up as they had said they would. Maybe did show up and the stress of the get-together has them bouncing off the walls, in need of relief(a drink, or a dozen of them).

We are here for those people, in this thread, in the rooms of AA, on the streets in some anonymous person they don't even know. Reach you hand out, and we will take hold.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 1, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
5th sober new year for me.............
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jan 1, 2012 - 02:12pm PT
One year and one day for me!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 1, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
Good for you, Mark!
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 1, 2012 - 02:24pm PT
Whether one day or 30 years, everyone of you are really awesome. This thread continues to give to all of us. Thanks
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 1, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
Me too! Last night was really not any temptation - since I was in the van drinking tea by 6pm...

It was only because some people came by and started a fire that I crawled out of my...shell... and made it to about 8pm!


I do have to admit that, for the first time in my life, I am glad the holiday season is passed. I am having real difficulty with something in my life, and it is impacting many other facets of my life by proxy. Still, my sobriety is the key to survival. If I slip, I am doomed.



Lat week, I did have someone try to get me to drink from a glass of some concoction that seemed home made. They were acting as if it was nectar from the Gods. I asked what it was, believing this person knew I was a sober, and they said "Just try it! It's great!" When I asked "Does it have booze it it?" They said "Oh come on - try it!"

I was figuring it must be that Mon Avie stuff people go on about. It looked like a dark juice of some kind. Finally, I said "You DO remember I am in recovery, right?" and they said "That's not my problem."

It turned out it was some sort of alcohol that had been somehow enhanced after purchase. The person claimed, after the fact, that they had forgotten I was sober. But..... it was a pretty bizarre experience. I don't believe they forgot, from the way they acted. And I was in a pretty precarious emotional place, which they knew. I found it extremely disrespectful, but I guess people who don't have a problem with alcohol aren't always fully cognizant of just how dangerous a substance it is for those of us who do.

Believe me - I am a much more attractive person without the drunk. I may not be the most easy-going or comfortable in social settings, but when I was drinking, I was a loud-mouthed, know-it-all, snob.

Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 1, 2012 - 04:56pm PT
No hangover on Jan. 1. Go figure . . .

A one day reprieve. Every day.

JL
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 1, 2012 - 05:01pm PT
Cheers!
Gene

climber
Jan 1, 2012 - 05:03pm PT
happiegrrrl,

Very Happie New Year to you!

g
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Jan 1, 2012 - 05:21pm PT
I admire the courage of all those posting here. Happy new year and continued success: one day at a time.

Rick
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 1, 2012 - 05:28pm PT
Pleased as punch (or herbal tea, or OJ and perrier, or whatever) that I didn't get loaded last night. Today is a good day.
cmcc

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jan 1, 2012 - 07:21pm PT
6 months... don't think about it as much anymore.
Just spent time with family and am sure thankful to not have those twisted conversations saying things I usually regret.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Jan 1, 2012 - 09:34pm PT
quiet, safe and warm at home new years eve, listening to the police scanner, people already on probation for dui being pulled over, sad,

2 fights in one evening at the local bar, bunch of drunken idiots, cops inside the bar hauling people away, i was drinkin 7 up and shootin 8 ball going "glad it ain't me!"
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jan 27, 2012 - 05:23pm PT
new years eve i was thousands of miles away
from home,

unseeing. unthinking. unbelieveing.

always though, was i acting.
out my movie.

titled,
your life.
not mine.

cause i understand little,
though i gather that bliss is fleeting
and it is when you attempt to cage elation
that it becomes
a disease.

i allow sorrow it's rightful passage thru.
sometimes im high with a durable smile.

some booze encourages a lightness within.
some reality encourages torture within.

booze rips me apart then
sews me agether togain.

reality chokes me till im blue
then blows sweet resussitation into.

i believe in god.
he kills one of my children.

i defile god and shite down her neck
and i wear myself around my own neck.

everybody needs something
that can take away the pain.

even pain takes away the pain.
nature

climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
Jan 27, 2012 - 05:31pm PT
I'm not going permanently sober but.... I started a full body cleanse and a liver cleanse at the same time 9 days ago. The liver cleanse is based in chinese medicine. let's just say that it's fairly clear that my liver was rather polluted (considering what happened over the hollidaze that's no surprise).
I'll leave the personal details out of this. hah!

Last night I was in a weakened state. not sure why. I pondered the one beer that is kicking around my fridge. never really tempted but...

six more days of the cleanse. I continue to do better in terms of beating myself up on beer.

I feel pretty dam good right now. getting all sorts of things done at night when a few beers might otherwise shut down productivity.

so it goes...
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 27, 2012 - 06:07pm PT
Twenty-Two months yesterday.

Still crave a cold beer a lot of times, but willpower is pretty strong. Have had a couple handles of liquor rolling around my car floorboard for a few weeks now (holiday gifts that haven't found their recipients yet), but that doesn't even interest me.

Just matched my all time best bouldering grade last night, at 39. So that alone is pretty strong motivation to stay off it.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jan 27, 2012 - 11:00pm PT
Peace.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Feb 15, 2012 - 01:14am PT
12 years today. Man, the time has flown by.

Very thankful to have been given a second chance at life. There have been some damned hard times in sobriety, and a lot of good ones too.

Today I have a good job, a wonderful fiancee, and a ton of outdoor gear that I use constantly. Climbing and being outside has been a big part of my recovery.

I am finally FEELING stable, the last three years have really opened my eyes about myself and life in general.

It works if you work it, all. One day at a time, and sometimes one minute at a time. But if you don't pick up that first drink, you will never get drunk again. Make it simple, and keep it simple.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 15, 2012 - 05:04am PT
and a little humor does not hurt,

listen to these freaks,

Jim Backus and Friend

Delicious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFqZhadwvG0
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 19, 2012 - 07:42pm PT
I am struggling.

Please, sober friends, please post to this thread and give me something to keep me occupied.

Am I in danger of drinking? I do not think I am. My thinking is very clear that one drink will take me so far from where I am supposed to be going that I would probably never get back on track.

But that doesn't mean I will not drink. It only takes a second to slip, and there are many seconds in a day, an hour, a minute.


I want to get these feelings out of me - I do not want to feel them. I do not want to "get over" the pain I am in, and try again. Again. I am tired,so very tired, of dusting myself off and picking myself up, and trying again. I am so tired of being told "it will happen," "stop trying," "you should try..." "you should be grateful," "so many people would trade for your life..."


OH F*#K.

pain, pain, pain.....




There is a meeting in Yucca Valley at 6pm. I am heading over there now and will feed Teddy and walk him when I get there.


Please don't ask what it is - it is a broken heart that should have gone through the pain a long time ago and just could not bear to do it.


Please tell me about YOUR story. Pleas tell me how it was back when you were drinking. Please tell me about the glory and gore of early sobriety. tell me funny drunken stories that are only funny to us drunks. Do not, please, tell me about how you found love only because you are sober. I have been sober 16 years, and I still have not had my first sober kiss. To tell me "it will happen" is like slapping me n the face, and I can't right now, smile politely when I hear it.







Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Feb 19, 2012 - 08:02pm PT
Physical activity helps me even things out Terrie. Today I started 326 inverted sit ups below my ytd quota. Right now I'm 71 in, 255 to go. I'd hurl for sure if i started boozing now. Going on 2yrs sober next month, blowing that would be worse.

Go to the meeting, I'd go with you if I was there, even though I don't do that generally. Stay occupied, maybe go for a short run tomorrow. I find it looks better in the morning.
Good luck!




Rox, even for you, that was a new low.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 19, 2012 - 08:49pm PT
holy crow, 326 inverted sit ups a day at age 71 (I think thats what he said)


no wonder you can climb off widths!

Haha - stumbled into the wrong thread I guess.




I am at the AA meeting and others are staring to show up.

Really - I DO NOT need to hear a WORD about relationships right now. It is very painful. What would be helpful - really - REALLY - is people talking about THEMSELVES and not me. What I need - really - is a hug. And the closest I am going to get that today is from some stranger after this meeting.


Off I go to.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 19, 2012 - 09:01pm PT
happie, one thing is absolutly a certainty. getting drunk or high never makes the lost love fall back in love with you. It just makes you feel like sh#t and do stupid self destructive things... that is my story and i am sticking too it. BTDT too many times...
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 19, 2012 - 11:11pm PT
I see that the comment I thought was from another thread was in response to Jaybro's advice - oops. I guess I wasn't paying as close attention as I should have been. Thanks Jaybro, for the advice.

You are likely right - I need to keep my mind occupied. One thing I have always allowed myself was plenty of alone time, because I feel I need it. But I realize right now that in my alone time, I also tend to live inside that same fantasy world I did as a child. Most people would say one should "sit and feel the feelings," but maybe right now that's not what is good for me.

Callie - I did see your post before, and I am sorry if my words made you take it out. I know you mean well and you are one person who I can actually stomach hearing those sorts of things from, because I know that you worked hard to get where you are,

Lois - You are so off base I wouldn't know where to start. I am connected. I see and talk with people every single day. And no, it is not a menopause thing(though I am probably getting into perimenopause). It is a lifelong string that I have worked on. It is not about something that is happening "today" or this month or year. It is a continuum of something that has been with me since probably about 8 years old, if not earlier. It's just that - after 40 f*#king years - how in the hell can I tell myself - again, to pick up and dust off? I know that I have to do that, and the thought sickens me because I am pret-ty sure I am just gonna get the smackdown again.




I did go to the meeting. I had to. It was okay, and it did help. If nothing else, it means I will be staying awake longer tonight and thus not waking up, as I usually do, at 2 in the morning, and having that consciousness that I do at that time.



Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 19, 2012 - 11:23pm PT
Service. And Al-anon. That will really calm your nervous system.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 19, 2012 - 11:57pm PT
No, Lois. It is that I get to a stage where I can allow myself to be vulnerable, to risk trusting someone else, to risk asking for and/or accepting love. It is like the Universe says "You need to trust. Go on. Try it....." And then I timidly find a way to do it and when I do, Smack. It is almost as if the Universe is going "Wow. She fell for it again!"


I am going to go to sleep now. Tomorrow is another day.


nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Feb 20, 2012 - 12:12am PT
Happie, so sorry to know you are struggling....

I hope tomorrow is the start of better days...

yep, stay busy, and help someone out in need...

it puts the focus elsewhere.


sweet dreams....

take care...

xo
nita...
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 20, 2012 - 06:36am PT
Get rid of those pills. Bad juju.. If they are perscription for pain BFD, get rid of em anyways and live with the pain. its better than getting hooked on meds.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 20, 2012 - 07:34am PT
im gonna drink today,
i drink everyday.
drinking is the way,
the truth and the lie.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 20, 2012 - 10:53am PT
im gonna drink today,
i drink everyday.
drinking is the way,
the truth and the lie.



(sober variation, inspired by....)
im gonna live today
not drink the day away
drinking was the way I missed
the truth behind the lie


I have a question for those who come to this thread and wax poetic on active alcoholism. What is it that you are trying to tell us - the ones who have been there, done that?

Get rid of those pills. Bad juju.. If they are perscription for pain BFD, get rid of em anyways and live with the pain. its better than getting hooked on meds.


I am assuming that is for someone else, but just in case(since all I am thinking about right now is me, me, me....) I don't take pills. I don't drink, smoke, take prescription or non-scrip drugs, cut myself, starve myself, barf up the pain through food, pick up people for casual sex. Hell - I don't even cut people off in traffic anymore.


Lois - I know you are trying to assist me, but it is almost comical. I know I have been vague as to the exact nature of my issue, but I can tell you it is NOT that I have been sleeping with someone and gave away the goods prematurely. By the way - did you see the post(s) I made where I said I did NOT want "relationship advice?"



Last night was uncomfortable, but I made it out alive. I had wanted to go to see the Cactus Pricks at the JT Saloon. I knew at least Todd would be there. And I like their music. And I go to the Saloon several times a week, sit with a coffee and work online for hours, without even thinking anything like "Hey - there's booze in this place. And I could have some." Or "Gee, those people are drinking; wish I could." Pretty much the only thoughts, alcohol-related, I have in that place is when a red-nose drained dear man starts talking to me with a slushy accent, and I think something like "You have zero chance, dude." Or compassion for their drunkeness, mixed with gratitude those days are in the past for me.(At least they are up to now.)

I decided it would be a risk not worth taking, to go inside last night, even though I was pretty sure the chances were low I would drink. The chances were low, but it was not a sure bet.

Today I will go to a Woman's AA meeting a lady told me about last night.

This segment of my life is not an easy row for me to hoe. It is - without doubt - the most pain I have ever felt in my life. And I have had this pain for about 2 years, unable to get past it. I do not, in honesty, believe that even if I am somehow able to surmount whatever it is that brings me to this place, time and time again, that it won't come back and smack me with a new variation.

I think there is something inside me that is damaged beyond repair. Like my vans rust. It ain't gonna go away. But the van still runs, even with the rust.

Drive on.










Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 20, 2012 - 11:12am PT
What's up with the disappearing posts?

Wishing you well, Happi.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 20, 2012 - 12:32pm PT
happie,
why?
that's easy...

insanity sounds better outloud.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 20, 2012 - 12:45pm PT
please,
sorry if my insanity crowds
yours sanity,

all mental states should
be allowed their intercourse
for in weaving together
our imagined existences

we tailor time's suitors.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 20, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
This thread has been LEBotomized™.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 20, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
This thread has been LEBotomized™.

I love how she makes her random appearances. This particular intrusion is so archetypal -- how she continues to offer up her offensive, um, "insights" to Happi with total disregard for Happi's repeated requests -- both explicit and implied -- to stfu. LEB is a textbook example of her kind. Her posts revolve primarily around her pathological need to talk about herself.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 20, 2012 - 02:55pm PT
Lois - I know you are trying to assist me, but it is almost comical. I know I have been vague as to the exact nature of my issue, but I can tell you it is NOT that I have been sleeping with someone and gave away the goods prematurely. By the way - did you see the post(s) I made where I said I did NOT want "relationship advice?"
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 20, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
Thanks for all these posts. I have only read a few since my past post, as I need to go to that meeting in a bit. I will come back later on though.

Coz - I hear you. But one thing I do NOT want to do is drink line a normal person again! I gt a belly laugh outa that one. Thanks for the smile. I saw my grandmother die from alcoholic, living on the ocuch and getting up only for a drink. I saw what it did to my mother - made her so unable to cope with others she could not make a phone call to a service company. I saw myself in that continuum, and what would be in store for me. The ghosts of Drinking Past, present, Future.... I am like Scrooge. I GOT reborn. I GOT a second chance at life. How many people - REALLY - get a second chance to live life over??? Drinking is the sacrifice asked for from the universe for that new life.

It is a good deal.


Norwegian - Carry on!


Roxjox....
come up and I'll introduce you to my guys and you can begin to relearn how to push that limit a little without killing yourself or becoming a lush
No, but thanks anyway. (oy veh)

Lois - I did NOT get knocked on my ass by some guy in the romance dept.... For crying out loud. Stop already. I am not you. While this issue DOES contain a guy, a guy that I love very much, he did not treat me poorly. He was not a romantic partner. And he is NOT an as#@&%e(and I am not in denial on that, as some would probably feel).

Nita - Thank you for your kind words.


Well - I need to get going. This is all helping me, everyone. I just need a little safety net right now. Thank you for being here.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 20, 2012 - 06:47pm PT
LEB, This is an important thread for recovering alchoholics.. you don't belong here, you do not help. leave or keep it down to a dull roar please. thank you.
Nick
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 20, 2012 - 07:09pm PT
Not half as alarmed as she is about the things you are posting, dumbf*#k. Was there anything at all ambiguous about her last request to you? I've been in way, way deeper trouble than anyone else posting to this thread -- at least, among those who are still alive -- and if I had to endure your asinine observations about my life I would have been far less polite than Happi was in asking you to please leave. You are a seriously damaged individual, LEB, if you simply cannot leave her alone here.

Since we all know that you are simply and utterly physically incapable of not responding in this thread, would you please direct whatever reply your uncontrollable fingers are going to make to me? And leave others alone, as they have asked?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 20, 2012 - 07:24pm PT
I would be more than happy to take a back seat to anyone able to offer anything therapeutic to her.

For the moment, she has made it clear that she feels that would be anyone but you.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 20, 2012 - 07:39pm PT
LEB take to annother thread please.. this one is for us recovering drunks.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Feb 20, 2012 - 07:40pm PT
yes, delete the LEB account, it's an unwelcome irritant

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 20, 2012 - 07:44pm PT
We'll save a cup of coffee for you, Rox!
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Feb 20, 2012 - 07:53pm PT
hey there, say, happiegrrl.... sorry imissed something here...

hope you are feeling betterm through all of this situations...

god bless, you are in my prayers,
:)
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 20, 2012 - 07:55pm PT
Rox, are you a member of AA? Aspiring alcoholics? I know I certainly used to be;)
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 20, 2012 - 08:03pm PT
OH STOP - EVERYONE!

We'll all be posting drunk together by the end of the day if we don't (AA) practice our principals.

Lois- This thread has evolved as a place where alcoholics come to help others alcoholics. That is why I am here. I need my alcoholic buddies on this. Even the drinking ones. It's like they are the disruptive ones in the back of an AA meeting, reeking of liquor, and when they ask if anyone is counting days, stand up and announce they have like 2 hours *sober*....hahahah

I don't want to be rude to you, Lois, but clinical "therapeutics" are not what I came here for. You are a lay person, and so that might seem strange to you. But I can tell you it is the fact.

And this thread is not about me. It just happens that I am the current one in pain. You can not know this, but there are a LOT of lurkers, people struggling, who read this thread and find solace in it.

Because of your combatitive style, when attacked, some people who may be MUCH more dire straits than me, might be having a negative reaction. I beg you - lurk if you will, but ssssshhhh. Leave the bulk of the posting to the drunks.

I'm going to be okay - so long as I keep connected. This thread is one of those connections, but if it is derailed into sh#t, it will become useless, and not just to me. It would be very painful for me to feel it was my troubles that got this thread turned into sh#t.


As for drinking - My risk is nearly nonexistent right now(I can never be totally safe, of course). Two AA meetings under my belt, and the help from some in this thread, and I feel like the pain, difficult as it is, is tolerable. But I have a ways to go. This is deep-seated stuff, and I am as if walking down a very long tunnel right now.

But I am walking. I am not curled up in a dark corner of the tunnel wailing. That may happened tonight, when I wake up at 3am. That is what happened last night. I had so many dreams that were just HORRIBLE that related to what I am going through. To me, that is a sure sign that I am not "making it up," this trouble.

But the meetings, and people here, helped and will be helpful.





On an aside, or back to topic actually, the Woman's meeting I went to today, in Yucca Valley was REALLY good. What an amazing difference from the one the night before.

Last night the majority of people had just a few months of sobriety, and halfway through the meeting, a woman with "more time" than most the rest came in loudly hauling a guy half her age....who, shared that he had a few hours sober... There were two couples in the meeting, who were hugging each other on and off during the meeting. Sorta odd.


Today there was a good 20 women of all ages, and from 30 days sober to one who was a kid during prohibition! Many really sober women in the group, with strong, healthy emotional sobriety. Phew!




Ian Gill

Big Wall climber
Redding, CA
Feb 20, 2012 - 08:20pm PT
Happie - I don't know you, as I don't post regularly on the taco. But in 8 days, I'll have 15 months sober. As I was ever the rebel, it took me @ 18 years of in and out, with each relapse worse than the last. I was once sober for 6 1/2 years, with no AA and no program. So of course my mind told me I was okay, I mean, I must have been, because look how long I made it! That was the beginning of the end - picking up again. "Normies" have no comprehension, nor should they, of the absolute hell and demoralization us alcoholics go thru, or have been thru. I truly wanted to just off myself.

So it was only with total surrender to the program that I found total strength again. I feel your pain in your words - and in my experience, a number of long time sobriety (like yourself)AA friends I know have gone through the same thing you're feeling - after many years of sobriety. That's when you get back to the basics, they say, and it passes.

Every day you don't drink you're a winner!!

And remember that today is the most important day in your life, because it's the only day you've got.

Largo had great advice earlier - SERVICE. Service helped me save my ass. And more importantly, it got me out of my own head. I don't know about you, but my alcoholic mind is my worst enemy - if I let it be!

S**t happens in sobriety, as you're all too aware of. But at least I don't feel any desire to drink about it any more. Just keep it up, girl, suit up and show up - you're stronger than you know!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 20, 2012 - 08:37pm PT
THANKS Ian!
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 20, 2012 - 08:48pm PT
they just found out that alcohol contains iridium and cobalt isotopes,

just another reason to avoid the poison,

make that cop in the rear view mirror a loser instead of you,
save money, be happy,


Ian Gill

Big Wall climber
Redding, CA
Feb 20, 2012 - 09:12pm PT
You can not know this, but there are a LOT of lurkers, people struggling, who read this thread and find solace in it.

RIGHT ON! This is so true. I actually posted to this thread probably around 400 posts ago. But as someone who has recently beaten cancer, AND alcohol (so far, you know how that goes - I guess I SHOULD say "has no desire to take a drink today"), at age 53, I've decided I've been given this 2nd (and 3rd, and 4th..) chance at life again, and I'm going to celebrate by soloing a route on El Cap this spring. I haven't been on El Cap in 26 years and have never soloed - but one of the posters on this thread is teaching me ALL the tips and tricks for old farts like myself.

But I digress.....

The point I was gonna make is that I was REALLY comforted to see this post on the taco, and to know there were so many other climbers just like me. You know how you can walk into a new meeting where you don't know ANYONE, but still feel comfortable and at ease? It was the same when I found this post! Cuz dammit, I need it! LOL!
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Feb 20, 2012 - 09:19pm PT
the tears and the smiles,
the wealth and the freedoms,
the health and the disease,
they all roll recklessless down
the mountains that are mine life.

i've not one regret for any of my decisions.
many of them have been horrible.
i would not change one thing or else
that one thing changed would rob me of me.

im complete.
toxins. vegetables. sex.
mastrabation. love. emotional disasters.
im everything i've ever been.
and that is fine with me.

i've headaches. and vomitting.
i've debts. and enemies.
i've scars. and memories.

these all are exactly of me.

many more await.
i'll stumble and fall.
i'll rise and stride once more.

for ever as ever understands itself.
when i accept a reality and attempt to
preserve it; when i achieve grace and
wellness;
when i determine who i am,
and stop letting i fall thru me,
it is then that i'm dead.

though i may be walking,
and climbing and astonishing,
and flowing, and beautiful
upon all of the doctors charts,

im still just a void where
i once was.

gawdamn disease malcontents me and mine,
but im better than jesus in that i arise,
again and again and again
from dead.

i'll see tomorrow tomorrow,
though i know not what it'll be,
i'll meet it with myself
and all's my offenses and defenses.


im a father and
a husband
and a provider

to all of these love's im accountable.
i'll also balance my own soul's excesses.
and we'll all smile and frown
and have a real life party.

damn,
the moment just overflowed and
now i've made a potent mess,
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Feb 20, 2012 - 10:13pm PT
Haapi,

Don't know you, but know you well. If you know what I mean. When the squirrel cage gets running, help someone else. As stated above, service. It is what saves my butt almost daily. That and staying connected via the 11th.

I am on the road, and only get a meeting a month on average. Sorry you are on tough times, I was shaky for the last month, until I was able to go home and recenter. Just stay plugged in and do the next indicated thing. If you do not know what that is, keep posting, and the others will surely point it out for you.

No room for our egos in sobriety, gotta let go, and let . You know.

What ever pains you today, can and probably will make you stronger out the back end.

And congrats to all the milestones posted since I last posted, you guys deserve all the happiness available to you.


Burly Bob
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Feb 21, 2012 - 12:37pm PT
Just haven't been able to stick with the program. Sober up for a few days, weeks, months, then slip right back to sucking suds. Go to lots of meetings, then a few meeting, work some steps, then falter. Think i just might need to check myself in and take a break from my day to day routine, seems like I've tried many other alternatives, except this one. Any suggestions for a rehab house in the San Diego area that still allows you to work your day job?
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 21, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
Anxious Meloncholy - The local AA Intergroup can probably advise you on the options in your area. Here's the info:

San Diego Central Office
7075 Mission Gorge Road, Suite B
San Diego, CA 92120
(619) 265-8762
(24 hours a day)
Office Hours: Mo-Sat
9am-5pm

http://aasandiego.org/


Just wondering - and it's none of my business, so feel free to ignore - but is there s reason you would want to still be at the work during this time for yourself, and not get into a full-time rehab? This may be something to discuss with the people at you intergroup(I can see why you may not want to publicly on the internet here).

If, for example, it is a concern over losing income, find out if the law requires the company continue your pay - as sick leave, disability or some other measure. If it is that you run your own company and a month away would totally kill it - there may still be a way to keep things going, if you have assistants who can be trusted. Sometimes, when we are in it, we can't see our options clearly.

Plenty of people DO find a way through, using the halfway places. It may be just the ticket for you! But man, oh man, how I WISH I had taken that month in a rehab - just for the break from the pressure! At times in early sobriety, I have waxed philosophic that I wished I would relapse now that I knew how much a rehab in-house was like, from hearing others tell about their time there - hahaha.


Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Feb 21, 2012 - 02:07pm PT
Rox you gotta learn to stop after the first couple sentences
bergbryce

Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Feb 21, 2012 - 02:22pm PT
If you've got nothing to offer to people struggling with drinking, you need to get out of this thread.

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 21, 2012 - 02:26pm PT
If you've got nothing to offer to people struggling with drinking, you need to get out of this thread.

+1.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 21, 2012 - 02:32pm PT
If you've got nothing to offer to people struggling with drinking, you need to get out of this thread.

+2.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 21, 2012 - 02:34pm PT
if you see somebody in a dangerous position because of booze,

ie: your best friend looks like death warmed over but you give them tough love and they die, this is not a good outcome for either of you,

move in with somebody if you have to, whatever it takes to save their life, because you will miss them for the rest of your life,

sunday sermon over now have some coffee and read the funnies.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Feb 21, 2012 - 02:35pm PT
Gotta agree with the two posts above. +3
Gal

Trad climber
a semi lucid consciousness
Feb 21, 2012 - 02:40pm PT
And +4.
Gene

climber
Feb 21, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
If you've got nothing to offer to people struggling with drinking, you need to get out of this thread.

+5

A fine idea, indeed, even though Rokjox’s posts reinforce the benefits of sobriety, self control and empathy (EDIT) all of which I lack on occasion.

g
Ian Gill

Big Wall climber
Redding, CA
Feb 21, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
+6! Find another thread rather than opining moronically about something you know nothing about.
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Feb 21, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
+7

_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Feb 21, 2012 - 02:56pm PT
If you've got nothing to offer to people struggling with drinking, you need to get out of this thread.

+8 (at least) to bergbryce's comment.

I mostly say nothing on threads of this kind, as I don't have much to say. That doesn't mean I'm not thinking of those who need support, for whatever reason - illness, family/friends, death, addiction, accidents.
Ian Gill

Big Wall climber
Redding, CA
Feb 21, 2012 - 03:39pm PT

If this thread helps just ONE struggling alcoholic to seek help and RE-GAIN their dignity (Rox's moronic and ill-informed remarks notwithstanding), then this thread is a success. One person helping another can work miracles and save lives...that's what it's all about.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Feb 21, 2012 - 03:58pm PT
damn! i should go to the doctor! twice in one day i liked Rokjox's post! i got some tequila at home....
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 21, 2012 - 05:26pm PT
Rox, people like you just make it that much easier to stay sober... Figuer you for an Ahole sober and a complete train wreck of an ahole drinking ;)
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Feb 21, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
Thinking of you Happie and Teddy


+++++(whatever it is now)


Susan
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 21, 2012 - 09:27pm PT
About what you said, I quote it below Rox. I agree with most of it, as it fits me to a T. I can control it...I think. However, not everyone is like that. Some can't do it under their own under any circumstances and few things are worse than alcoholism. Once you have sunk into that hole it's a damn hard dig to get out, some never do. We can and should do everything we can to help any and all, and not generalize about people we've never met.

Regards.


Roxjox said in response to :
If you've got nothing to offer to people struggling with drinking, you need to get out of this thread.
:
"Feb 21, 2012 - 11:50am PT


I got something. Stop whining, stop focusing on drink, stop feeling so superiour to the other drunks. You ain't beat the villian if everyday you are still fighting the battles.


One of the many problems with AA is the insistance that there is no cure, no time when you are free of the problem. That you cannot do it alone, that you must have "a higher power" to lean on. Its a club that once you get beat-in you can't possibly leave. Remember, every group is differenet, you can get whatever strokes you think you need from somebody, but they are always trading your need for theirs. The people that feed on AA, that feed on being better than you, more sober than you. Don't tell me they don't exist, they are everywhere.

AA provides a perfect place for upmanship games, they constantly preach that there is no way to do it yourself, its EXPLICIT in the course, there is no choice but AA or continuing on a downhill sprint. And that is their biggest self serving lie.



I got lots for these guys. I got everything except pity or sympathy.

And that is what ever so many dry drunks feed on. The power of the coin.


Its worse than the Boy Scouts, everything has to feed the addiction, there is always another coin. I understand that feeding the addiction with alcohol is bad. I also think feeding the addiction with yap and pride and endless games is bad, its STILL feeding the addiction.



If you can't accept that, consider your motivations. I got as much reason/cause/concern to post as anybody, I ain't no virgin to drugs. But I refuse to see my life as bounded by addiction on all sides. I CHOOSE to drink, sometimes I CHOOSE to drink to excess. each and every one of us CHOOSES and putting that CHOICE as being the fault of the booze is a feel good lie ever so many make, with the endless support of AA. The one thing every AA meeting seems to have is a strong grip on eternity, on NEVER letting a person think it OVER because of THEIR decision, not that of the "higher power" or the flunky in charge of passing out the cookies.

You want to play that game, thats fine, as long as its explicit its a game.




Men are strong enough on their own to make the decisions they need, and if they are not, they should stop blaming forces exteriour to themselves.


I have had to place people in rehab, even once pretty much against their will, though with the help of a judge. But I never sentenced them to a lifetime of talking about it, endless meetings with other drunks and associations with people who are not especially desirious.

I really disagree with a lot of what AA stands for. It's a con club whose first goal is to perpetuate itself and its individual power structures.


And Yes, perhaps not EVERY AA meeting is that way. But ever so many are, its a damn FRANCHISE for Chirsts sake, and power and influence follow when you are dealing with people who are in a weakened state of self-respect. AA is destructive of self relieance and self respect, they teach that you can do nothing by yourself, you NEED that higher power, that mentor, and the meetings to achieve the stated ends.

I say you need nobody but yourself and a hard look with a firm resolve. That Alcholism is NOT a lifetime sentence brought on as a curse from beyond your control.

And fact is, there ARE other groups than AA, there ARE other philosophys and there ARE people who have the ability to even go back to drinking without destroying everything they gained. And that ability can be trained and improved upon.

There ARE other, perfectly functioning and perfectly successful methods and groups and techniques, and that "once a drunk, always a drunk" is NOT the last word in treatment. Those who most promote the AA screed do the most damage to personal inititive, to personal dignity and the personal knowledge that your life is your own to control.





So a climbing website is no good for LEB to blather on about off topic sh#t, but its a FINE place for YOU guys to clutter up with completely OT threads?

I see no reason to support an AA chapter on ST.


Is that enough for you?

DOESN'T MATTER! I am finished. "

Many of the folks I climb with both drink and smoke to excess. If I can ever be of any assistance to any of them, I want to be open to that possibility. And not just by sparking the bong for them cause I happen to have a lighter or cracking open a beer.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 22, 2012 - 09:01am PT
I have had a couple of not so good moments at AA meetings (open meetings) that I take Jennie to (and perhaps maybe I need).

Okay, primarily just one bad moment personally, because I opened my mouth at the wrong time (I didn't know the rules). Jennie got up and left, pissed off at the way I was treated by the chair and several others. I tried convincing her that it was really my fault, that I ignorantly and inadvertently stepped out of line (nothing great, just speaking out of turn. Hey, I didn't know the rules. Mea Culpa). We have not been back since, though we will search out another group.

Jennie, who is an attractive woman (other have said it) gets turned off by some of the 'creeps', yes creeps may be the correct word, who try hitting on her and other vulnerable women in the group/meeting, so she avoids the meetings. At first I thought that was an excuse, but several discussions with other women confirms that there are guys who go to meetings just to try and hit on women. Sad, isn't it.

As for me, being an atheist, the Higher Power thing and God is problematical, but as mentioned already on this thread, choose your own God to guide you.
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Feb 22, 2012 - 10:41am PT
The HP concept really is problematical for us devoute athiests. Thankfully, in my reading of the program at least, there is nothing attaches a recovering alcoholic's HP to anything like a god, or a God, particularly as it relates to any of the commercial religions. The HP thing is part of the system of paradoxes that AA exposes as part of its program of recovery.
YoungGun

climber
North
Feb 22, 2012 - 10:56am PT
Uh, they still used The Lord's Prayer to close the meetings I attended, which seemed pretty religious to me...
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 22, 2012 - 11:02am PT
Jennie, who is an attractive woman (other have said it) gets turned off by some of the 'creeps', yes creeps may be the correct word, who try hitting on her and other vulnerable women in the group/meeting, so she avoids the meetings. At first I thought that was an excuse, but several discussions with other women confirms that there are guys who go to meetings just to try and hit on women. Sad, isn't it.

In NYC AA, there was a very ugly, often said jokingly with a wink, phrase: "Get her on her back before she's on here feet." It's also "jokingly" referred to as 13th Stepping.

Patrick - Jennie can go to Women's meetings and the creepy guy factor is eliminated. If she won't go - I'll be blunt - it is an excuse. Being afraid is one thing, but that can be gotten through, and usually after the one try the fear is banished. Refusal outright is another matter.

Are you, as her SO, going to your own program? If not, I will suggest looking into Al-Anon.


There is no way to avoid creepy guys in AA, just as there is no way to avoid creepy women. Just like in the greater world. AA is simply a microcosm which has a bit of a built-in buffer zone.

There is a guideline in AA - No changes with the first year. Most people consider that the "stay away from the n00bs" clause. But sexuality and loneliness are very powerful needs. It happens.

The healthy women in an AA group usually DO try to foster the new women, and protect them. Whether that new woman will allow themselves to be taken under their wing is another story. Many women grew up trading sex for a desire for love, or a belief that their body was the only thing another would see of value in them. It is a difficult chain to break.

I wish the men of AA were a little more "fostering" on the other men... But unfortunately, it is not the newbie guys who are doing the 13yj stepping. Often it is the ones with plenty of time. Another AA slogan - Some are sicker than others.

happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 22, 2012 - 11:23am PT
Thankfully, in my reading of the program at least, there is nothing attaches a recovering alcoholic's HP to anything like a god, or a God, particularly as it relates to any of the commercial religions.

My aetheist friend who came in 6 months after me used a little plastic pig charm as his HP.

I came in with the old "God is a man, who sits on a white cloud and is very loving" was what I had when I got sober. You'd think I had it made in the HP department! I had no problem with the "talking to HP" part and did it every day.

In those conversations, I came to a place where that version of God no longer applied. In fact my version of God as an "person-like" entity no longer applied. Well! WTF? I came in with a God of my understanding and at 6 years that god was smashed into oblivion!

After some time, I have come to believe we are all one entity, and that we are what is "god." Talk about a paradoxical conundrum of what it means to be powerless! If I am god, and so are you, and so is the grains of sand we walk on...

Yet, I can still remain sober. It is A OK if your understanding of God is that there is no God! THAT is your understanding. Allow THAT belief to be your HP. Allow that thought form to guide you. It will work.



As for a lot of meetings using the xian prayers, yeah...I wish these groups would...get with the program - hahah. It's been clear from a long way back that the religiosity of a group was a hindrance to some who come there for help.

I was lucky to have NYC AA. There were a few groups that still used those formal prayers, but they were few and if someone new was looking for meetings, and had voiced issue about such things, they were warned DON'T go to...such and such meeting!"

I'm in JT now, and there have been some "Amen's" exclaimed at points in a meeting. I am pretty open and it irks me! I can see how it would peeve someone who takes issue with the religious concept. All I can suggest is to "take what you need and leave the rest." Those people who say you have got to take AA whole hog, all or nothing, our way or the highway?"

That saying I mentioned in earlier post about Some are sicker than others? It doesn't just pertain to sexual predators. Go ahead and smugly know they are limited in this insistence. Be....patient...with those people. Don't try to argue with them. They LIKE it! Just smile, and say "Thanks."(Add the "but no thanks in your head"). If you have a sponsor that wants you to get on your knees and pray and you'd prefer getting on your knees and giving a BJ to - I don't know - Dick Cheney? - over praying? GET A DIFFERENT SPONSOR!

By the way - you won't get kicked out of AA for not having a sponsor. I stalled, resisted and was pretty much a bad sponsee whenever I DID have one. Some were easier to deal with than others. Some I got some help from, but in the end, the relationships did not last. I was also a pretty HORRIBLE sponsor, and only did it when people asked me to. Or at least I thought I was horrible. Too much effort to go into right now, but apparently I wasn't as bad as I thought.

Would I sponsor someone now? Hell no! Well, okay. Maybe if someone asked, I would try. Of course I would do it. Universe? Don't you DARE put such a person in my path today- hahahah

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 22, 2012 - 04:20pm PT
Yeah Happi, once you understand that god can be god with a little "g" or God with a capital "G" you're good to go. But I had no problem with that. To me God is just an easy refernce word to describe...oh, I'm not even going there.

But one thng is for sure: I could never possibly hope to anthropomorphize God. I mean, c'mon.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 22, 2012 - 04:57pm PT
Hi Happie, actually Jen does/did "enjoy" her meetings with the group in Dun Laoghaire. When she want back (I tagged along, and let others know, and they were okay with it, I think) after her long hospital stay and several months at home, some who knew her from before greeted her. I have been to oh, about seven meetings with her, and for the most part she is willing to go (but never participates, that is, speaks up, but she is shy by nature... and an abusive father did not do much for her self-esteem).


Yes, they do end with the Lord's Prayer, but hey, this is Catholic Ireland. I would just stand there not saying a word (I was raised a Catholic in California, altar boy and all... and no, I was never abused by a priest, as I would have kicked his balls in, just like kicking Mother Superior - Sister Gregory - in the knee after she slapped me, from then on, it was public school - my mom told the sisters, "never touch my children, I can deal with them"). Getting kicked out of St Mary's (Walnut Creek) was the best thing that happened to me, academically and otherwise.

Anyway, there are a number of other AA groups around, we'll just have to "feel' them out to see what suits the best. I am going to look into this Rational Recovery program though.


As an aside (blowing my own horn), when I was in fifth and sixth grade, I would get the weddings and whatever Sunday masses I wanted, beating out seventh and eight graders (no I was not pleasing the priests, I was that good). Early morning Sunday masses were a drag and funerals as well. But at weddings, the groom and the bride's father would slip you money. Sweet. In fact, when I was nine, I wanted to be the first American Pope, at ten an astronaut. Always reaching for the heavens.

Then one day in the sacristy, Father Cosgrave caught me drinking some "Holy" wine. He threatened to turn me upside down to use as a mop (I was the only kid in school with long hair, circa 1967 or a bit later), but I reminded him that he would have to answer to my mom if he did. End of my altar boy career.

PS when I say tagged along, Jennie is fine most of the time (say 95%+) but she does need supervision in public - be it me or another person - as one never knows when an episode will hit and she can get confused, disoriented, and agitated. I wish I could give her more freedom (she thinks the electric gates at the front of the yard are a prison), but I am just as much a prisoner - being her full-time carer - as she is, and while she may or may not recognize this, others do. It ain't easy, in fact, the toughest most challenging thing I have ever done. But she is worth it. She has a great heart and a great soul, shame about the alcohol illness.

At the end of a secluded cul-de-sac we have a huge yard - front, back and side - with views of Dublin Bay from several rooms. I am trying to interest her in flower arranging (she wants to teach disadvantaged children from the inner city ballet for free - it won't happen, certainly not in the near future, BTW Jen has her honours in ballet from the Royal Academy of Dance in London, eons ago, until her knees gave out - hey I didn't kick them, I only do that to nuns, heh heh) to keep her busy. I have had top quality greenhouses and sheds put in. But still, those electric gates makes her feel like a prisoner, but they are there for her safety. However, she just doesn't get it, but that is Korsakoff's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korsakoff's_syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernicke-Korsakoff_syndrome


[[[EDIT
NB: from wikipedia "By the time amnesia and psychosis have occurred, complete recovery is extremely unlikely.[citation needed]"

I'll prove that wrong. Jennie may never be 100% again as far as certain neurological issues are concerned, but I'll do my best to get her independent. (However, to quote all, ALL, of her doctors at hospital and GPs, " there may be some residual neurological issues").

Yeah, and the human brain is stronger than we think it is. I'll find a way to address those "neurological issues".]]]


It ain't easy, but I shall persevere.

Gosh damn alcohol - and other substance - abuse. And abusive fathers (I'll stop there).

EDIT

One good thing, and I am making it a daily (weather permitted) goal, is good granite is a five-minute walk from my front door. Now in the past Jen has accompanied me while I boulder, though she gets nervous when I free solo easy climbs.

But what I have learned, is that she is much, much happier and healthier when she gets out (from 'Langdale Prison', where I am both warden and lowly porter). She'll just have to cuddle up with a good read while I climb. Dalkey Quarry is a lovely place, and she (I hope) will not have the tendency to wander (abscond as John the PHN puts it. "Isn't that a bit harsh John, absconds? It makes her sound like she is in prison". Says John: "Oh, it must be an Irish expression").

All in all, we have it better than much, much of the world does. I am on the rocks tomorrow, as the weather is "supposed" to be dry.

Chin up everybody. Patrick

PS Langdale is the name of our house. We have Langdale House (small bungalow), Langdale Farm (sizable for a good plot of land), Langdale Studios (ah,not yet), Langdale Flowers (hmm, getting there), and of course, Langdale Prison.


One More EDIT
Jaysus, I hope I am not sounding like somebody who wants this thread to be Me, Me, Me. I am just relating my experiences, perhaps a long-winded.

Is alcoholism a disease, not by the strictest of definitions. But it is certainly an illness, albeit not an easy one to tackle, there are no magic pills. Patience, understanding, (frustration to boot), belief, love, and desire. Those are very important ingredients to the road to recovery. I have learned that, I hope.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 22, 2012 - 07:40pm PT
Locker and others, pertaining to:

Borrowed this from Patrick...

GOOD info!!!...



"The World Health Organization (WHO) came out with a report towards the end of last year. It looked at 30 substances that are abused. It had two categories: the first, the harm the substance does to an individual, and secondly the harm to society.

Alcohol came in number one in both categories. (Magic mushroom came in 30th and marijuana at 29, in both categories)."

From PaddyBoy (me)... (and no, that is not an avatar I have used before, just for this post)

I'll try to get a link to that report, it shouldn't be difficult, as I am on WHO's press contacts (whoooppeeee for me, ha ha).

But as you and others have mentioned before, moderation is a key, but unfortunately, it seems, not for those already "hooked". Man I have seen how tough it is. To be honest, I get mixed emotions on this issue. I... I think I will comment further, later.

Yours

Patrick
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Feb 22, 2012 - 07:47pm PT
Is there room in this thread for an aspiring booze quitter?

One of these days. I wish it were yesterday but sadly, I'm drinking a glass of wine.

Sometimes you hit the end of your rope and realize that change is imminent.

It's enacting the change that seems to be an issue.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 22, 2012 - 08:02pm PT
Brandon, When you really want to quit you will be able to.. you just have to be in the place where You Want to give up the booze... Its not easy then but it is possible...
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 22, 2012 - 08:06pm PT
I'd been wondering, Brandon, but figured it the 1/1/12 date had stuck, we'd have heard about it.

Best of luck to you. As you can see, this thread has some really good people in it who care and have good information(and they're not all AA'ers).
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
nevada city, California
Feb 22, 2012 - 08:11pm PT
^^Brandon, i know that fealing man, i was there for a while. finally took seeing my dad get a dui at age 60and nearly kill himself in the accident. i had already stopped the liquor, which was my real problem, but was still drinking beer, and admittedly way more than i ever did before i stopped the liquor. what it really comes down to, in my opinion, is an individuals complete honest and absolute desire to stop. i was fortunate enough to catch myslf at a young enough age that i could do it myself; for some, i think outside help becomes mandatory. best of luck.

edit: funny, I noticed this thread before i finally quit completely and seeing all the people here and it beeing just even more motivation to finally kick the habit. now, 5+ months sober checking back in i feel the need to contribute in the hope that perhaps it might make a slight difference for someone else out there.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Feb 22, 2012 - 08:26pm PT
Brandon--I would say start a new thread if you want and see what traction it gets, if you're someone who enjoys drinking including some binges now and then, also sees some real or at least potential related problems, isn't necessarily committed to becoming a teetotaler, and want to discuss those issues.

Or maybe I misunderstand you and you're committed to 100% teetotaler, which is what I think this thread is about. Good luck either way.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 22, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
Ahmmm, booze is booze is booze. Jennie sometimes says she no longer for years drinks bottles of vodka, but until her recent illness, she'd drink a lot of white wine. I have tried to convince her that alcohol, alcohol, is alcohol. Beer, spirits, wine etc, it is in the units one drinks (and at what rate and time frame).

But yet, sometimes, Jennie thinks it is better to drink wine than spirits. Hey, go past a certain point with either, and it does not matter on a physiologically level.

Now let me finish this last glass and I will preach no longer. (Okay, inappropriate pun. But one must lighten up at times.)
bergbryce

Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Feb 22, 2012 - 08:37pm PT
The lord's prayer thing grated me too but then I realized it was a stupid thing to get bent out of shape over. I let that $hit go and focused on the positive. Problem solved.
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Feb 22, 2012 - 08:52pm PT
It wasn't the lords prayer that rankled me. It was the hand holding in a circle while reciting it. At first is violated my sense of space and reminded me of nursery school.

20 years and how many, many meetings later in various corners of the world and I know now that it's not something to get my Willy in a Wonka over.


Then again, there was the time I was at a meeting in Butte Montana where there was only one other person and he was missing one arm. WTFO.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Feb 27, 2012 - 11:38pm PT
going to give a half-ass effort at not drinking until April. Odds are not in my favor, but I'm going to pretend that maybe I can do it, and perhaps I will
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 27, 2012 - 11:50pm PT
How do you go about doing it half-assed? Isn't there some saying from Karate Kid or somewhere, where the sensei tells him "There is no half-ass. Only ass or no ass." Or something like that... :)
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 28, 2012 - 12:00am PT
You're thinking of what Yoda told Luke in the second Star Wars movie, when he was getting his Jedi training.

Hope this helps!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 28, 2012 - 12:06am PT
There you have it, MS. Yoda would want you to go full ass forward!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Feb 28, 2012 - 09:06am PT
"do or not do, there is no try"
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 28, 2012 - 10:10am PT
Not even try to be funny???
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Feb 28, 2012 - 10:17am PT
I'm not really comfortable with master Yoda's words in this context.

Rather, have full resolve in whatever you undertake, but don't base your selfworth on mere results, and always have a joke handy!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 28, 2012 - 10:33am PT
I think the half assed approach can work in a sense.

If you pull it off, then great, you probably didn't have a big problem in the first place. And if you don't pull it off, the failed attempt may be the wakeup call that opens your eyes to your dependency.

I didn't stop because I was an out of control drunk, or stayed drunk all day, or even drank to drunkeness. It wasn't affecting my work, family, or friends. I stopped because I finally realized I was dependent on it for a variety of things.
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Creek, Ideeho
Feb 28, 2012 - 10:38am PT
On the bus or off the bus.
Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Feb 28, 2012 - 10:48am PT
2 Years, 3 months:-)
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Feb 28, 2012 - 01:03pm PT
Congrats, Mr. Brown.

There are a thousand reason why a program is not for you. There is just one reason to join a program. Reclaim your life. Draw strength from each other and whatever other sources you find it.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 28, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
El cap. usually pisses me off pretty good when people tell me that because I quit without a program that I did not have a real problem. My thoughts on that are FU a hole WTF do you know about my fckin problems. just maybe i have enough willpower to pull off amazeing accomplisments sometimes despite the odds being stacked against me. I felt that way about leading the last gent, getting my 4th dan and quitting drinking...
Quitting drinking was one of the hardest things I have ever done..

I know you were not speaking directly to me but a heads up that those kinds of statements judgeing the validity of other folks problems are fckin lame.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 28, 2012 - 05:15pm PT
Tradman, I think you're reading what you want to hear, rather than what I wrote.

Like you, I also did not use any kind of program. I'm not a "joiner" in general, and have strong will power when I am convinced I want to do something. The closest I came to a support group was reading this thread and talking briefly with one of the posters therein when I first quit (he had also just stopped).

My point was that "half assed" to me means that the poster doesn't really care that much about the outcome. Has nothing to do with programs, whether AA or otherwise. But trying and failing, whether with a program or without, may be the wakeup call that makes the person recognize their dependence and WANT to change.

If you can really make a half-assed attempt to quit where you don't really want to quit, and it sticks, then yeah I don't think there was a real dependence there in the first place. If that pisses you off, so be it, but that's your problem, not mine. It sounds like you wanted to quit and worked hard at it, which is far from "half assed".
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 28, 2012 - 05:33pm PT
Sorry, i thought you were bundeling folks who try to quit without a program into your half assed catagory.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 1, 2012 - 11:17am PT
a little emotional engineering,

when your culture guarantees a high quality of life, it is left up to you to tamper with that quality, bringing it down to a level that encourages the survival and creative instincts that
our evolutionary ancestors instilled within us. i chose addictions. never do i compromise my morals, those stay with me thru and thru. my illness begets a search for health. whenever i enjoy a sustained run of good health, my existence becomes complacent. im practicing voluntary illness with the goal of conditioning myself with a bounce-back resolve that i surely will need someday when those involuntary illnesses find me.

romping in the mountains sometimes destroys our quality of life, in that our survival is
threatened, our comfort is compromised, and our fear is ignited. with these struggles, we find reserves or invent reserves that return us to the easy chair.

i can overcome anything. hardship is a playground with bullies in centerfield, hot chicks behind the backstop, and bags of weed stuffed into vacant shoes on the free side of the fence.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 5, 2012 - 06:50pm PT
The two year mark slipped right by me. Two years, 10 days.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 5, 2012 - 07:12pm PT
Happy 2 and 10 El Cap!

Norwegian - May you be one of the lucky ones who either goes life through without damage to self and/or family, friends, health and/or mental stance, or one who is able to step to the side when the clues become too obvious. There will always be plenty to carry the drunken torch forward. (I have also found that the ones who do get sober tend to be the best of the best drunks...).
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 5, 2012 - 07:18pm PT
Good job El cap!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 5, 2012 - 07:54pm PT
Convrat! & Me too El cap 2 years and however many days ago the 24 of march was.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Apr 5, 2012 - 08:56pm PT
My mom gave me her chip when she drank after she went to rehab.

I still have it.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Apr 5, 2012 - 09:02pm PT
26 years. Don't miss drinking or all that other crap. Sometimes it makes people uncomfortable so I don't make a big deal out of it. Been sober long enough not to judge others. And I know I can't save anyone. I really don't think I should get a pat on the back for deciding to do something about my drinking before it KILLED ME!!!! Self preservation was my motivation and that I was tired of all the consequences.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Apr 5, 2012 - 09:15pm PT
negative 6 months,
chronologically.

positive giants
emotionally.
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Apr 5, 2012 - 09:50pm PT
I had to make the decision to take my brother off the respirator after he drank himself to the edge of death. He told me right up to the end that you can't wreck your liver drinking only beer.

I still drink, but I'm beginning to wonder.

What's scary and scaring me is that he had almost no symptoms until it was way too late.




Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Apr 5, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
wonder is a great state at your brink.
only dreams and imagination in front of you.
only reality behind you.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 5, 2012 - 09:05am PT
How is everyone doing? I feel pretty darn good! Clean and sober fot almost six years now. Right arround this time in may of 2006 I started my journy into sobriety.. Did not actually get completly clean untill august of that year but may was the start...
pb

Sport climber
Redlands Ca
May 5, 2012 - 11:32am PT
going on two years with support. love it! nothing is more clever than self deception. namaste
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jun 1, 2012 - 04:27pm PT
abstainers of folly
are wronging the worlds,
for we as a species,
so intellectually advanced
upon the good graces of our's evolution
need a good dumbing down
in order to give own
environment a chances.

my attack on this pile of dirt
is fairly administered only when
im a drunk.

if i were to take a sober plunge,
i'd impart the harm of 1000 humans
for mine ambition and mine resolve
and mine imaginations are greater than
and not equal to god's boast.

entropy don't stand a chance
up against the sober no-reason,

it is only upon the inebriate norwegian
that energy devolves.

i cannot be none specator to reality.
i gotta author it anew each moment thru.

tons of disprespect self-intended.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jun 1, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
Still hanging in. Just started working again. So things are looking up. Summer climbing projects are in the air. The stage is set for adventure. Ready to hit the rock this weekend for a FA and camping. ALL IS GOOD!
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Jun 1, 2012 - 04:42pm PT
23 months today.

I don't regret the 33 years I spent drinking, if only because it led me to where I am now. I've never been happier and love every minute of every day.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jun 1, 2012 - 05:01pm PT
sorrow suffering and struggle
are insurmountable obstacles
that i must keep hither on horizons
lest i give my spark to
wet-rag-realities.
Kenygl

Trad climber
Salt Lake City
Jun 1, 2012 - 05:14pm PT
Been sober a long time. No regrets. However while drunk, a few regrets.........We will relive the wreckage of our past. The phrase "I'm not hurting anyone but myself" is a croc. Everyone in your life suffers. Meditation, my group of sober friends and climbing has saved my life. Not just the act but the kinship and focus on community has meant the world to me.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 1, 2012 - 06:05pm PT
I now go to AA meditation meetings almost exclusively, which are popular here in Venice/Santa Monica and are held in local Zen zendos and ashrans. Go in the habit of going to one every morning at 7. Life alterning.

Easy does it is a slogan written especially for me . . .

JL
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jun 1, 2012 - 06:09pm PT
Watching my sister live through the end of her husband's life. He loved his drinking, and they were married in their favorite bar. Seemed cute and harmless back then. He gave it up when he put the kids in harms way, and she vowed never again. I give him credit for getting on the path.

Many years later, the unseen liver damage is now apparent. A wild youth topped with piles of tylenol led to cirrhosis, hepatitis, and liver cancer. Not curable. Not a candidate for transplant. I watch them cry about missing the golden years together. I watch his daughter cry that Daddy won't be around to walk her down the aisle. I watch his son wonder if Daddy will live to see his high school graduation or Eagle Scout ceremony.

I hope those of you struggling with this see every good reason why today is worth the struggle and do not put off until tomorrow. It matters. Someone does care about you and needs you.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Jun 1, 2012 - 08:31pm PT
must really suck to crave a drink and not have one (or a dozen). good luck
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Jun 1, 2012 - 09:33pm PT
Agree with Hankster. My sobriety date is my birthday, July 1, 2010.

I have literally had no desire to drink since then, and miss nothing about it.
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
the green triangle, cali
Jun 1, 2012 - 09:36pm PT
Agreed hank.

and to reiterate/reinforce i say that being only a little over 7 months sober I can honestly say it doesn't "suck" one bit. the improvements to my energy level, climbing, and cognitive function have been to me quite noticeable and frankly worth it when i consider the tough moments; especially after climbs, when you are hurting and thirsty and it is sooo normal to have a drink.

but frankly, I am not here to convince anyone. i am a firm believer that no one will ever quit unless they themselves truly want to. so i simply ask anyone to ask them self, could it be better?
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jun 1, 2012 - 10:47pm PT
RIGHT ON HANKSTER!!!! Two is a good one. I remember it well. One was easy, I was still in a fog and was really busy patching up my life. At two I thought I could do this sober thing. I was a little less scared of drinking again. Life started to even out a little. All the best to ya!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 2, 2012 - 01:02am PT
My sixth sober Birthday toaday though I did not stay continously clean untill august of 2006. turned 50 today. Snagged the FFA of Good Country For Old Men 5.8 I lead bolted it rope solo monday. 100FT through a roof and then nice face climbing. had the rope in a bullet pack running through a gri gri anchored to a tree. all the crap and the Bosch hanging off my Butt. Got er done and came back today with my #1 girl to lead it clean. this climb opened up a whole new section of the cliff. We then set a new anchor and TR'ed a 10, got it figured out and got most of the bolts in.

No need for booze when you can snag killer routes on your bday :)
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 2, 2012 - 01:13am PT
Yeah Hank nailed it. By and large, it's those that crave "a drink or twelve" who don't quit in the first place.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 2, 2012 - 02:05am PT
Hank has it right for me. I had that "realization at depth" that I was an actual alcoholic and I couldn't drink. It's a shocker but it shocked me sober. But I generally do 5-6 meetings a week. I don't even think about anyone drinking around me anymore.

JL
joe boy

Trad climber
california
Jun 3, 2012 - 08:56am PT
sober 13 years now, AA worked for me. Lost too many friends that died due to their addictions.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 3, 2012 - 10:24am PT
When you can wake up in the morning at 6 am SO FRESH, and ready to rock the world, thats living. I look back at the times I went climbing hungover and stupid, got out on the sharp end shaking like a leaf, sick to my stomach, just wanted to go lie down in a hole somewhere and die. That was fun? Theres no glory in alcohol, just a path to the gates to Hell. Kudos to those who realize it before they meet the gatekeeper.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 3, 2012 - 02:26pm PT
I never went to a single AA meeting, meditation group, physician or shrink. I had two young kids (later a third), and a one in a million wife dedicated to raising them. I also had my own Dad who made our childhood a living hell. So i was looking at two options A) continue drinking and risk putting my family through what my father did to his. B) Do the right and responsible thing and give the wife the husband she deserved and the kids the father they needed. It wasn"t even close it had to be B. I had my last drink in 1986 and it was the best thing i ever did, as it lead to a very successful life and a well adjusted family.
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jun 3, 2012 - 05:06pm PT
Sobriety is continues to be awesome.

In 19 days at 930AM I will have been sober for exactly 20 years.

Not that I'm counting or anything.


I guess it's an alcoholics' way of thinking about alcohol that allows me to recall a detail like that.
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Jun 3, 2012 - 06:49pm PT
I'm glad to see this thread pop up now and again.

I personally still can't get it to stick. I go to meetings for awhile, then stop, then drink. I stop drinking for weeks, sometimes months, then grab a drink and its off to the races again.

Ugh.
dfinnecy

Social climber
'stralia
Jun 3, 2012 - 07:21pm PT
Just lookin through this thread, happiegirl wrote way back when,
everything we searched for in drinking is there, available for us through the sacrifice of that very substance

Anyone sober have more comments on that? An interesting, powerful idea to me.

I drink but toy with the idea of quitting,.... which I guess means I definitely should.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jun 3, 2012 - 08:16pm PT
Pretty much nobody on this thread but wege' misses drinking or is craving one, at all.

Man, I wish that were true. I've got over two years now, and this last week was the hardest of all. I really, really wanted a cold beer. Started to rationalize, concoct all kinds of reasons why it would be ok, and that maybe I just wanted to start drinking again like "normal".

Don't get me wrong, I'm better off in almost every way without it, and want to stay off the sauce, but every now and then I get a wicked craving...only this time it lasted about 5 days instead of 15min.

Nothing I can see that triggers a craving, they just strike kind of randomly, although the last hours of daylight and cooling breeze of late afternoon after working in hot weather all day makes me crave one way more than sitting around after climbing with friends who are drinking right next to me. That - being around friends who are drinking - doesn't bother me at all, maybe I trust myself not to do it with others around, but don't trust myself alone. Who knows. But the cravings still arrive, and I don't think there will ever be a time that they don't, even if less often.

Still sober. Good luck to you all.
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jun 3, 2012 - 10:15pm PT
Just lookin through this thread, happiegirl wrote way back when,
everything we searched for in drinking is there, available for us through the sacrifice of that very substance

Anyone sober have more comments on that? An interesting, powerful idea to me.

I drink but toy with the idea of quitting,.... which I guess means I definitely should.

A program of sobriety is filled with paradoxes just like that. I'd heard most of them before I got sober but they never made sense until I got a clarity of vision that came with time in the program.

The one that twisted my head was that I was an egomaniac with an inferiority complex.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 3, 2012 - 10:30pm PT
I cretainly know my trigger points when I will want a drink. Anytime i am totaltaly spent from a huge day of scary climbing it is wicked strong urges when you first get back to the car. My latest way to deal with this is polar or ADK seltzer. 0 calories all natural ingrediants but it has lemon lime, manderian, wild berry, etc flavors. Cold, fizzy, tastes good, dosent get me fat and completly satisfys the urge to pound a cold beer.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jun 5, 2012 - 09:18pm PT
im know i viewed as the plague here,
though im sincerely interested in your's
endeavor,
so i visited the anti-source
and inquired upon the mind
and gawd she told
me that it was a screw up
on her part
that she mixed up the x and y
with why and because
and so the electricity firing
upon brains yours and mine
is going trans-current,
and faraday you just sit down
you little bitch
and thus the only
(ill)logical recoursing
of the mind is upon
the covalence of las vegas
and the verses of wandering
shall guide all dormant saints
and demons alike.

so your heart yearns for
deodd'end minds
and mind my yearns
for lost realities
and spirtual sweat

be yours along.
as you stride for promising tomorrows
of healing and growth,

i'll sin and i'll isink
as the stone devil
erodes my heart
and fossilizes my dreams.

slodog

Trad climber
ontario canada
Jun 5, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
one day at a time-it gets better-
I'm hurtin . . .

Ice climber
midwest
Jun 6, 2012 - 02:34pm PT
Lots of different stories and experiences. Some heavy drinkers can simply stop and then lead a happy, productive life. I wasn't one of them. No way I could quit and be happy about it. Couldn't do it alone, so went to AA. Still going . . . 13 yrs sober.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jun 6, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
sober or sick
reality hurts none the less.

navigation thru
is graduated upon
our mental placidness.

when im clean,
i yard upon buckets
in my ascent of life.

when im tiltin bottles
left and right
im working higher on crimps.

and the top,
you and i already know
don't amount to shite,
it's all about the dream, ill or well,
along the way.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jun 6, 2012 - 03:30pm PT
I've slid back into drinking...Deep in my cups I often think of Warren Harding and how it contributed so much negative in his life (my opinion) and promise to myself that tomorrow I won't drink anything.

But then I do anyway.

And the wine bottles stack up.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jun 6, 2012 - 03:52pm PT
couchmaster,
i consider the crv
my kid's college fund.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jun 6, 2012 - 03:56pm PT
I use to as well Norwegian, but as my youngest is a college senior, I now drink wines rated 90 and above, planning to not leave that as cash when I depart from the earth and leave my body back here.

the lad on spring break last month or so.

Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jun 6, 2012 - 04:14pm PT
sir your lad looks strapping
and im sure that you have some
credence so don't worry yourself
too much and just author each
day before you as you can

and go to the mountains often
for they purge us of confusions,

and then again wallow in your confusions
and swim towards understanding
but never again stand on firm ground

that is o.k. for life
is wiley and struggle
is welcoming and
death is ours to author
and you've everything to strive for
but most well-being is beyond grasp,
and just keep your head up some of
the time
and your feet 'neath you most of the time
and we'll be at tomorrow, together.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jun 6, 2012 - 04:50pm PT
Nice to see this thread has been up and at it. Congratulations to all who are celebrating milestones recently, and best wishes to those struggling today.

I am entering the time of year that is the anniversary of my "Home Stretch" to sobriety(otherwise knows as the period of my bottoming out...). In less than 3 months, on August 26th, I'll celebrate 16 years of sobriety(so long as I don't drink, that is).

But this upcoming period of time, each year, is an odd one for me. I get body memories of the feelings I was having that last few months of drinking. They are feelings of loneliness coupled with an awareness that life was not going to be changing for the better, as I had been holding out for over the years. It's as if there is a ghost of the past walking alongside me at times.

But feeling a-ok right now!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jun 6, 2012 - 04:54pm PT
David Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest is some wickedly funny and trenchant commentary on AA and additiction in general. I'd imagine if you participate in AA (I don't) that it would be even funnier and more cutting.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jun 6, 2012 - 05:14pm PT
Couchmaster and neighbor - I see a light in you. Your kids need and want you way past college. You are looking at this stuff for some reason. You really don't need a reason beyond treating yourself the way you deserve to be treated.
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jun 6, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
At a spiritual retreat I recently attended, my best friend told me that they just realized that their past addiction was both an attraction and an aversion. According to my friend, the paradox is what made alcoholism difficult to step away from.

I thought, "how odd." Usually things are one or the other. I'm not sure I understand why that would make an addiction so difficult to escape from.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 6, 2012 - 08:04pm PT
Hmmm, I'd heard that, Elcap, I may have to try again to read, Infinite Jest. i'm warming up on Neal Stephenson's Anathem. Why did these guys ditch minimalism? I miss SnowCrash!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2012 - 07:17pm PT
The best AA song ever?

[Click to View YouTube Video]
yoslocal

climber
Yosemite
Jun 13, 2012 - 04:38am PT
Is this what I am going to do? A late night apology for feelings that I can not even explain myself? Thank you for this thread...I am am Yo local that has climbed on/off for years... but there are certain things that hold more meaning...I have looked at this site in the past to purely get information on what is going on in the valley...but lately, I have come for some sort of reassurance that everything I have understood to be my life is normal..isn't that strange? That I have to look to a random site that I don't know anyone for reassurance? And by the way, I am very sorry, but I am not sober now...
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jun 13, 2012 - 10:35am PT
I have come for some sort of reassurance that everything I have understood to be my life is normal.

It is the real beauty of supertopo. The climbing beta is great, but the community is really the best of it. Glad you are here!
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jun 13, 2012 - 10:52am PT
sully it is also entirely possible,
and highly likely that
these artists of whom you speak
may never have found their
proper expression without
their's illness encouraging their tongue.

wellness is wiley,
illness is necessary.

ours striving for physical perfection
is admirable but,
i believe, erroneous.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jun 13, 2012 - 11:28am PT
ten 4 hank,
im lost within the site
and i just bump around
spittin out kiddie thought bubbles
and when a respected peer slaps
me sane i take the shot with honor.

you kindly implying:
get off my property!
and i shall.

see you around elsewhere!

Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Jun 13, 2012 - 11:50am PT
So I'm two weeks away from my two year sobriety date, and the urge to drink has been completely lifted in that time. COMPLETELY.

Two days ago I was in my basement looking for some decking nails. Behind some boxes that haven't been moved in nigh on 10 years, I found a vodka bottle, one quarter full, that was obviously stashed and forgotten in a blackout. Like the Dead sang, "The bottle was dusty but the liquor was clean." It didn't matter that I probably could have drank it and got away with it, the thought never entered my mind. It most certainly would have been the first drink of the end of my life.

I promptly dumped it down the sink; the smell disgusted me.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jun 13, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
Sully, I know he took his own life, no idea about the details. I haven't read any of his other works, plan to, but haven't gotten there yet. It seems pretty clear that Infinite Jest was drawing from his personal experiences with addiction..they were just too accurate to not be.

I can't imagine what it's like to be saddled with the "greatest writer of his generation" tag and all that entails.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 13, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
you kindly implying:
get off my property!
and i shall.

Weeg, definitely do NOT bail completely on this thread!
That's not what Hank asked.

You're just trying to figure it out, same as the rest of us.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jun 13, 2012 - 04:15pm PT
hey my feathers are spread aloft,
not ruffled, i'll just glide onwards,

and litter other threads
i understand exactly what you say, hank.

im arrogant as a sunofa bitch
and naive to boot,
so these combo makes for
a loud idiot.

i believe what i say,
i live what i believe.
and i'll die a lie.

carry on and find the screams in our life that whisper truths.
John M

climber
Jun 13, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
sully it is also entirely possible,
and highly likely that
these artists of whom you speak
may never have found their
proper expression without
their's illness encouraging their tongue.

wellness is wiley,
illness is necessary.

ours striving for physical perfection
is admirable but,
i believe, erroneous.

Agreed.. to a point.

I believe it can help that one has traveled into darkness to speak to those who are trapped there. But one doesn't have to stay there. It also helps to have someone who has seen the light and can attest to how much better it is then the darkness. The problem is that in this world of darkness, there are few who have fully let go of the darkness and the darkness has a way of gripping a person so that they believe it is better.
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
the green triangle, cali
Jun 13, 2012 - 06:53pm PT
blam, +2 john. dont go away weeg.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 13, 2012 - 07:18pm PT
Good job Edge! I am creeping up on six years sober. It mostly super easy for me these days. I have no problem being arround friends when they are drinking. I play music in bars so am arround the stuff every week. I did go in the liquor store a few months ago to buy a friend a 12pack of micro beer for their Bday and that made me physicaly ill. It just pushed the right buttons to completly freak me out.. weird sh#t I guess?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jun 13, 2012 - 08:03pm PT
Funny, I was cleaning out my car today for the first time in eons and I found two half-empty bottles of Chivas stashed behind one of my back seats. They went straight into the dumpster. I felt like I was handling toxic waste.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Jun 13, 2012 - 08:17pm PT
booze is good for your kidneys, liver, brain, stomach, heart, muscles, skelatal joints, relationships, energy level, driving record, just about everything.

what a miracle drug, eh?

and it's free, what more could you ask for?





Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 13, 2012 - 08:29pm PT
It's difficult for me to muster the courage to check in with everyone on this thread.

Regardless, hey there!

I'm stuck in a world of too much drinking. Shoot, I've had too much to drink tonight. It was a bottle of wine and a beer.

Y'all are an inspiration to me. I need to kick this sh#t sooner rather than later.

Let's keep this between us though, ok?
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 13, 2012 - 09:03pm PT
This the last verse of a song I wrote in 2006 when I was in the process of quitting. (C) Nick Goldsmith
Good beer and whisky - it will be the end of me
got to find annother way - somehow I have to see
got to turn my life arround- I'm running out of time
got to have one last chance - before I kiss the sky
If I had a dime- for every time she said goodby
I would drink untill the well went dry

I would hang my head and cry.............
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jun 13, 2012 - 11:12pm PT
It's difficult for me to muster the courage to check in with everyone on this thread.

Regardless, hey there!

I'm stuck in a world of too much drinking. Shoot, I've had too much to drink tonight. It was a bottle of wine and a beer.

Y'all are an inspiration to me. I need to kick this sh#t sooner rather than later.

Let's keep this between us though, ok?

Dude hang in there. It not that hard if you REALLY want it. It is a bit of work in the beginning. It's kinda like quitting smoking. Don't pick up the first one. And get around folks that are doing the same thing you are. If you go to an AA meeting and don't like it keep going to different meetings until you find one that fits. They are all different. So don't get discouraged. AA is not the only solution but it is the one that worked for me.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jun 14, 2012 - 05:39am PT
Just my .02...

While N's poems are usually far beyond my comprehension, they are nowhere near as bad as the constant and blatant disrespect that "Dr. Sprock" spews into this any many other threads.

Do us a favor, and take your crap elsewhere. This thread is for people trying to beat this disease, myself included. There are plenty of other threads for you to attack.

And to Brandon -

Thanks for checking in, man! Keep coming back :D You can do this crazy sobriety thing, if you choose to. If you had told me over 12 years ago now that I would spend a day sober,(let alone years) I would have laughed in your face...lol...but it can happen!
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Jun 14, 2012 - 06:40am PT
Wow...This thread is awesome.Never posted on this thread,but thinking about kickin' booze.This thread gives me inspiration. 3am and I'm sittin' here havin' a PBR. How stupid. Kinda crazy how the sauce has changed me. My hobbies are climbin',flyfishin', and skiing. All things that have been hand in hand with drinkin' beer for me. When doing any of said activities,it seems like beer should just be involved. On our way to the boulders/river/snow my friends just assume we need to stop to get beer(fer me). Hilarious part is my best friend doesn't even drink. He always says "I don't think you need to stop,just slow down". That system doesn't seem to work fer me. Also just had a friend my age (45) die from drinking. Should be a wake up call ,right? Anyway,just wanted to say keep posting on this issue and inspiring me. Thanks folks. I'm gonna kick this sh*t.

Edit: Just for levity,alcohol has landed me in jail in France,Mexico,Montana ,Colorado and California. Someone slap me!!
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Jun 14, 2012 - 07:08am PT
Minor infractions all.Somehow I don't even have a record.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 14, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
This is ridiculous. You guys can endure weeks of suffering on a wall or in a sleeping bag in Nepal but you don't have the willpower to quit drinking? I quit drinking years ago and it was one of the best decisions of my life. Make a decision and stick to it!
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jun 14, 2012 - 12:17pm PT
As time goes on, I see that life could have gone many different ways. There but for the grace of God, it could be me. At 20 or 30, I probably thought I was too smart to ever get into trouble. Now that I am older, I see the hubris in that attitude and much more sympathy for those who struggle. I check in to this thread to see how you are doing with your struggle, to see you celebrate another day of success, to see you inspire and support each other. You remind me of the humanity in each soul I encounter, no matter what station in life they may occupy at this moment.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jun 18, 2012 - 10:47pm PT
I suppose it was trite to imply that quitting drinking is like quitting smoking in my earlier post. But my point was don't pick up the first one. The drink that is ( works with smoking too).

I sometimes tell myself there is nothing that could happen to me, that a drink wouldn't make worse. When I was first getting sober there was not anything I wouldn't do not to pick up that first drink. I was truly desperate and scared that I would screw it up like so many other things I had tried to do.

The best thing I think I did was to try to help others. So to all of you that are struggling.... I feel your pain and I have been there, and got to the other side. You can too!
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
the green triangle, cali
Jun 19, 2012 - 01:06am PT
for anyone having trouble. you're brains ability to change and adapt and through meditation/therapy/willpower etc never stops throughout your entire life. it is never too late. look up "neuroplasticity" and start thinking/acting positively.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jun 19, 2012 - 09:24am PT
I heard on that show "On Being" on NPR:
http://www.onbeing.org/program/investigating-healthy-minds-richard-davidson/251

One of the things that Richard Davidson said was to effect real change requires daily practice.

There is that One Day At A Time thing. Do something daily to change your life and it WILL HAPPEN.

Or you could try this:
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 19, 2012 - 09:55am PT
Saw this on my facebook page and thought it might be motivating to the A5 climbers here wondering if they can quit drinking. People capable of doing things I could only dream about. It's simply a matter of deciding its time to get your sh#t together, and remaining on that transformative path permanently, as was just observed. Hankster, my comments were made in the spirit of admiration and I regret if they were misinterpreted. Also, PM me for better pics if interested.

 Paul


Living on Borrowed Time

You may have heard the term ‘time management’ before and dismissed it as being one of the many newly concocted phrases of the self-help industry. However, it refers to using the time one has in the most effective manner and although not always labeled as that, this single trait has often been cited by many as one of the key success factors of all productive human beings, alive or dead, be it in the material or spiritual sense. Time is life and once lost can never be retrieved. The value of time is something never underestimated by people who live to make a difference and has always been the common denominator of those who left a legacy behind them.

Sometimes you will hear someone say ‘I do X to kill time’ as if having spare time is an annoying hindrance. At the other end of the spectrum are individuals who are constantly complaining ‘I don’t have enough time’. And the last type are the ones I envy: nearly always doing something productive, never complaining about the excess availability of time or lack thereof and they carry themselves with a certain aura of serenity, always maximizing their usage of time and realizing that every minute gone by is not going to return.

Time management is redundant if you are living your life doing whatever comes across your path, wandering aimlessly from one day to the next, not really knowing what direction you’re heading in. Having clearly defined goals in life is vital to living a healthy well-balanced life. Being unsure of where you are going can cause anxiety and a sense of dissatisfaction with life.

Once you have your goals in life clearly defined with scheduled action plans, the second step, prioritising will become easier. Trying to fit in a multitude of tasks in the limited time available can become a challenge when you haven’t decided what tasks should come first.

The third step is to mentally and physically get rid of the stumbling blocks in your life which allow you to be unproductive or procrastinate. Coming across a task you don’t want to complete, have you ever found yourself discovering new things to do which weren’t important two minutes ago? If you have, you are a ‘structured procrastinator’. You make yourself believe that you are being productive and not lazy, but what you’re really doing is putting off critical tasks.

At other times, you may make excuses like ‘I just don’t have the willpower’ as if willpower is like eye colour; something you were born with. Willpower is a personal trait which can either be developed or ignored. Accordingly, time management will hone your personal qualities, such as patience, determination, and self-discipline.

And the final step is to wake up early. Along with taking these other teps, bid farewell to the cozy duvet early in the morning and say to yourself: “Here I come. I have a purpose in life to fulfill, goals to achieve and no time to waste.”
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 26, 2012 - 09:23pm PT
Wharf rats
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 27, 2012 - 06:45pm PT
The real key is that you have to come to that place where you are finally ready, willing and wanting to change.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 27, 2012 - 06:51pm PT
Hey Plaidman,

Still here, checking in.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 27, 2012 - 07:24pm PT
This is ridiculous. You guys can endure weeks of suffering on a wall or in a sleeping bag in Nepal but you don't have the willpower to quit drinking? I quit drinking years ago and it was one of the best decisions of my life. Make a decision and stick to it!
-


Most of us would say that if you can simply quite by making a decision, you were never an alcoholic as we define one. But it's great that you are sober. For the rest of us, trying to achieve a meaningful life through will power is a prescription for disaster.

JL
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Jul 1, 2012 - 08:42am PT
July 1st: Two years sober today, and 51 cycles around the Sun as well.
perswig

climber
Jul 1, 2012 - 09:35am PT
Congrats on both, Edge.
Stay safe and smart around all those honed blades and spinning gears.

Dale
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jul 1, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
Sweet!
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Jul 1, 2012 - 05:58pm PT
Edge, Congratulations...and Happy Birthday!


and congratulations to all the other former drinkers..
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Jul 1, 2012 - 07:56pm PT
I check in on this thread periodically.
The courage and honesty of those who contribute is always inspiring.
Coming up on twenty one months.
Thanks to Hankster and the rest of you.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jul 1, 2012 - 08:08pm PT
After Iron Hawk this year, I was sitting around with Cheyne and Tom and a few other people at Camp 4. They were drinking beer and I was eyeing those beers with lust in my heart! I kept on thinking, "just one, come on, just one, you can do it". I knew I would not be able to do it and one would be gone in about three minutes and six would be gone in about an hour more.

I kept drinking Gator Aid and loved it!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jul 1, 2012 - 09:27pm PT
My latest tool is Polar seltzer. It has some fizz to it and different fruit flavors, lemon, lime, wildberry etc but zero sugar, zero sodium etc. all natural. it has zing when cold but dosen't mess with my climbing weight or get me too wired to sleep. All I need after climbing at that real critical time when BINTD the cold ones would get cracked is something cold, wet and fizzy. Seltzer hits the spot and I am instantly satisfied and good for the rest of the night.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 1, 2012 - 10:16pm PT
Never leave home without 'em!

ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Jul 1, 2012 - 10:25pm PT
"One martini is all right, two is too many, and three is never enough."

James Thurber. (or maybe HL Mencken, can't remember)
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 1, 2012 - 11:54pm PT
@Brandon- Hey Brandon I'm still here and kicking. Coming up on another B-day 7/5/85 is my sobriety date. Still doing well and staying sane. Mostly!
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 4, 2012 - 11:46am PT
I finally found out what the problem has been all along.
Just a little levity before I head out to go cragging.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jul 4, 2012 - 11:55am PT
what are the contributors to sobriety or it's evil inverse?
can only ingested or inhaled intoxicants deplete the common mental state?
what about cultural input?
that is definately mind altering.
media. f*#k that i weened off that shite years upon.


how do we define this physiological state, sobriety?
a mind as placated with no intoxicants?
purity? clarity?
surrender?

what the f*#k is sober?
cause the sober i see around me is unacceptable.
i'd be happy to strive for sober,
as soon as an improved sober is invented.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 4, 2012 - 11:58am PT
Norwegian, that was kind of somber. When I find the new and improved sober I will let you know. Meanwhile.... I just keep having fun!
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 5, 2012 - 09:34am PT
Happy to have been sober another year today. That makes 27. This sobriety thing is kind of habit forming.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jul 5, 2012 - 10:12am PT
Yeah, the mineral water/seltzer/etc can be a good crutch. Bumming some off Jaybro got me through the first thanksgiving sober.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jul 5, 2012 - 10:47am PT
Way to go Plaidman! Happy B-Day.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jul 5, 2012 - 05:25pm PT
Good job!
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 5, 2012 - 11:15pm PT
Thx for the kudos guys.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jul 14, 2012 - 11:05am PT
Five days in with many opportunities to slip up. Strangely, I'm having no trouble. It may not seem like a long time, but for this guy, five days with nary a drop is kind of a monumental thing.

I really just want to cleanse for a bit but given the way my body is feeling (freaking awesome),this may turn into a long term thing.

I've noticed that I'm craving sugar now where I didn't before when I was getting it from alcohol. So, when I was at the grocery store this morning I cruised by the aisle full of delicious beer and stocked up on fruit and juice.

It's shocking how easy it's been thus far, I guess I just hit the point where I really truly wanted a change.
Kenygl

Trad climber
Salt Lake City
Jul 14, 2012 - 11:24am PT
Happy birthday plaidman. Hang in Brandon, it get's better.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jul 14, 2012 - 11:28am PT
Good on ya Brandon. The sugar craving seems common, I had it bad for months. I also found the early weeks and months easy, much easier than I expected. Hit a couple rough spots around 18mo and even a few weeks ago which is over two years in.

Something about realizing that if I did achieve my biggest climbing goal, which was one of the reasons I quit, that I couldn't celebrate it with a beer. That was kind of a carrot I held out to myself in the early going...once you do the route, you can make an exception and celebrate with a pint or even a good bottle of single malt. Now I know that can't happen. That almost made me say "f*#k it, what's the point".

But I feel better, sleep better, climb better, and don't feel dependent on something, and that's worth it.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jul 14, 2012 - 05:55pm PT
Nice work, Brandon - I know you've been considering this step for a while. And believe me, I know how long five days can be...and how long five minutes can be, etc. Don't downplay it, five days is great no matter what.

It's up to you, but you might want to check out an AA meeting, and get a sponsor. It really helps to have someone to call and talk to.

Hope your cleansing does go to full time! Being sober can be pretty awesome.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jul 14, 2012 - 06:20pm PT
I've noticed that I'm craving sugar now...

Many find this to be the case. Apparently, alcohol is sugar, or turns to sugar, or something.

Congratulations on the step, Brandon. Glad it has been so quickly positive for you and best wishes that this is the way it continues to go for you! It does, for some(it did for me). But more often the case is not so easy, so don't be alarmed if some people give you some input on the difficulties they have had. That doesn't make your experience any less real.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jul 14, 2012 - 08:34pm PT
Good work, Brandon.

You know what I do, I just worry about one beer, just one, because after that one, forget it, all bets are off. If you can avoid that one beer, you've avoided all the other beers that follow. Worrying about all those other beers is a big task, worrying about that one beer isn't.

Works for me.
perswig

climber
Jul 15, 2012 - 10:14am PT
But I feel better, sleep better, climb better, and don't feel dependent on something, and that's worth it.

Worth repeating.
Stay sharp, folks.


Dale
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 15, 2012 - 10:21am PT
Go Brandon!
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 16, 2012 - 02:47am PT
Right on Brandon. I with ya. Hang in there dude. You are in for the ride of your life. My life didn't get interesting until I sobered up. Some really cool stuff came down the pike. Then there is just the life stuff. I wouldn't trade what I got for anything. All the best to ya man!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jul 21, 2012 - 10:44am PT
Week and a half. Loving life. Woo Hoo!
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Aug 5, 2012 - 06:39pm PT
Bump for a lot of great folks!
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Aug 10, 2012 - 08:47pm PT
Twenty two months today.
Thanks.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 10, 2012 - 09:07pm PT
Sweet!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 10, 2012 - 09:08pm PT
Just bought a case of black cherry seltzer for tomorrows outdoor corn roast music jam gig.. GTG!
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Aug 10, 2012 - 09:26pm PT
Awesome work Chief! The second year was really tough for me. Not because of a desire to drink, but because that's when I really started to remember stuff. I had to make a lot of phone calls that year to family and friends, and make my amends the best that I could. Luckily for me, I managed to repair a lot of the damage, but not all of them could accept my apologies, and I had to deal with that.

Keep it up!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 11, 2012 - 11:02am PT
Heading out to my 6th sober Corn roast harvest party... 6th bday comming up on the 25th of august.. i fell off that day in 2006 but got back on and stayed on.. I guess it is merly a technicality? i was sober from about 3rd week of june 2006 to august 25th of that year when i had 2.5 pints of Guiness. stopped half way through my 3rd pint and been OK ever since....

Usually when july rolls arround I feel like annother years has passed....
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 11, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
Congratulations to everyone celebrating another day sober!

I saw a beautiful image of several bottle of rose wine this morning and thought "Oh, I did love rose..." This was at 9am!!! Jeepers.

It has been a tough year for me, and some areas of my life don't look like they are going to be letting up on pressure anytime soon. But luckily, so far, whenever a "booze moment" appears(like one above) I am saved by the next thought being "No, that's not going to make anything better" and an understanding as to why "no" must be the answer for me. It doesn't guarantee sobriety forever going forward, but it has done it so far.

I also am always cognizant of feeling a real sense of sadness when my mind considers alcohol. Sadness like "Oh, if that happens(drinking), you will lose any chance of happiness, Terrie. Don't do it..."

I am 15 days away from my anniversary of 16 years sober. Each year, this time has a bit of melancholy to it, at times. It seems to be body memories of what I was going through the last month of my drinking. It was a time of real loneliness, and an awareness that what I was seeking in life was not going to happen for me(at least if I kept doing what I was doing).

It is good to see this thread getting a bump.






Kenygl

Trad climber
Salt Lake City
Aug 11, 2012 - 02:29pm PT
That sh#t happens. Congrats on your 16, good on ya.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Aug 11, 2012 - 03:07pm PT
Way to go Trad and Happie! 6 and 16 years, that's amazing. I'm at 12.5 as of yesterday hehe...yeah I count in half years too :D

I remember an AA convention that I went to at about three years sober. They had everyone stand up, and sit down according to time. The youngest was one day, and the oldest was 50 years. They met and shook hands, and that was really inspiring to me.

I know you've had a tough year from some of your posts Happie, I hope things get better for you as soon as possible. Remember, everything passes :)

Never thought it would go this long, but I'm damned happy it has. Over the last few years, life has just been getting better and better. The "promises" I kept hearing about seem to finally be coming true, and for that I am very thankful.

Blue skies!

Travis
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 12, 2012 - 06:23pm PT
Well, here goes;

Being sober is more difficult than I expected. I was doing great for the first month, then I slipped up.

I spent the last few days at my friends camp and ended up drinking along with the crew. Tomorrow is a new day, one that will begin and end with sobriety.

It's such a personal guilt trip to fall back on old habits.

Anyway, tomorrow is a new day.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Aug 12, 2012 - 06:29pm PT
I'm proud of you for posting up Brandon. Sent you an email the other day to see how you were doing.
Don't worry too much about slipping - it happens to nearly everyone in recovery. Look at what caused the slip, and learn from it. If you figure out your triggers that make you want to drink and avoid them, it will help a lot.

You might want to find someone in sobriety that you can call when things get bad - try picking up the phone instead of a drink.

One day at a time, man! You can do it.
John M

climber
Aug 12, 2012 - 06:33pm PT
Hey Brandon,

I went back to drinking a number of times before I was finally able to quit and get it to stick. Drinking was a big part of my life and there were so many triggers. But eventually I got the hang of it and now I don't drink nor do I even want a drink.

Hang in there and just keep quitting, because you are correct. . Today is a new day.

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 12, 2012 - 06:35pm PT
Oh well, be back on track now Brandon. You know what you have to do. Dont beat yourself up over it!

I had a long talk about this with an old Laramie buddy yesterday; the mechanism of the cycle. We used to go at it pretty hard in the old days. We compared notes on how many things are going better in our lives without booze. It was a real incentive to list those things and have that talk with someone I truly respect.

There are always goong to be temptations. This weekend at the sushi fest, there were quite a number of different sakes. I had a curiosity about the subtle nuance of different types and what makes them different. But I knew that that is just something that just doesnt work for me to determine directly. In the end, it really wasn't a temptation at all.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 12, 2012 - 07:20pm PT
Thanks guys.
Stevee B

Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
Aug 12, 2012 - 09:44pm PT

My first sponsor told me he only had to remember two things: "I have to remember where i came from and that I can't do it alone."
I used to go to lots of dead shows when I first got sober and I found the key was to bring another alcoholic with me. It really helped until I was able to get a solid foundation in the program underneath me. Now I can go a lot of places without a chaperone ;-) but no way could I have in the first years.
Don't be too hard on yourself. Nearly every alcoholic or addict will slip when alone in that sort of situation.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Aug 12, 2012 - 10:18pm PT
Brandon -

Hang in there. You are doing the right thing by sharing your experience. It is a tough row to hoe starting out. I didn't even go into a bar or hang out around people drinking for at least 3 or 4 years. I had to change all my play mates and play places. Now after 26 years I hardly even think about not going anywhere I want to. Hell my wife( not an alcoholic)has been drinking all day as we are cleaning the house. That is the only way she can handle cleaning. I just had to suffer. DEEP CLEANING SUCKS!!!!! We got the house mostly under control. We just love to climb so much the house really got WAY out of hand.

Well sorry for the thread drift. You will be done drinking when you are done. Jump back on the horse and don't get too down on yourself. I had a slip too. Then hit it like a vengeance and never looked back. If you really want it and are will to go to any lengths to stay sober it can happen for you. It worked for me and I was a total flake. I am pulling for ya man.
slodog

Trad climber
ontario canada
Aug 12, 2012 - 10:33pm PT
13 years in a couple days-i dont ussually say much around here-mostly just lurking and well i wonder if this is the place for this topic[plenty of sobriety based forms out there]-but i must say-dont waiste your life fighting booze-just give up and get on with it-in my wildest dreams things could never have been as good as they are in reality today as a by product of simply not drinking.i'm heading to the valley this fall for my first wall-long time coming for sure i'm no spring chicken-this would never have been possible if i was still drinking-cause well... i'd be dead no doubt.if your a drunk as i am you have 3 choices-get sober-go insane or die
that friends is my two cents.
cheers
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 12, 2012 - 11:11pm PT
Contrary action. Never easy. Saves our lives. If I go on impulse I'm dead. Higher Power. Service. But mostly go to meetings.

JL
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 12, 2012 - 11:12pm PT
My sister's huge party was great success once again. I played 3 full sets and the 5 piece country band played 3 sets. lots of real big heads sunday morning.. watching these guys Always makes me feel better about not drinking
Kenygl

Trad climber
Salt Lake City
Aug 12, 2012 - 11:57pm PT
Get through today. Tomorrow is another day another chance. No judgement just grace and forward movement.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Aug 13, 2012 - 09:14pm PT
@Kenygl - ^^^^^^ Good stuff man. Keep it light and stay positive.

Try this on for size. Look in the mirror and say I love you..... and mean it. We are our own best friend or enemy. I try to be a good friend to myself. I am the only one living between my ears.

Maybe being of service to others is a way to stay out of our heads and stop being so self centered. When we can get to the place when we are not our own worst critic, we will have peace. I sure have found some of that.
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Aug 14, 2012 - 01:01pm PT
Brandon,

I have to ask; after stating your intention to become sober here on this forum, how did those few drinks go down? Did they have the same old effect as always, or did some little part of you know that this was not for your highest good? If it's the latter, and I pray for your sake that it was, then you have started an amazing journey with unlimited potential.

I drank for 31 years, the last 8 quite heavily. It was fairly standard for me to polish off a half gallon of vodka between 2 PM and bedtime, or more precisely, pass out time. I was still able to function at work, so I saw no big deal, just those pesky family members who wanted me present and a part of their lives. I hid bottles everywhere, and just wanted them to leave me alone so that I could drink the way I wanted to.

Four years ago I was told to check into a month of rehab, but after that ended I was back to the bottle after only 4 days, and so went right back for another month. I wanted to stop drinking, but really, I wasn't ready to stop. As a result, I continued to drink for 2 more years of increasing hell. Waking up in the morning with the shakes so bad that all you can think of is running over to the general store at 6:20 AM while the wife is in the shower just so that you can buy a 2 liter bottle of cheap wine so that you could function is not fun, and it sure isn't pretty.

Two years ago, with my marriage on the brink, no friends because I had isolated, and deteriorating health, I was finally ready. I checked myself this time back into the same rehab on my 49th birthday, and followed the suggestions with the same fervor that I used to drink. I was particularly drawn to the spiritual aspect of my disease, something that I had ignored previously due to reservations about modern day religion. I found that religion and spirituality are not one and the same, and through an introduction to Native American healing circles, I began following these teachings. Connection to the Earth and nature, meditation and prayer (to the "Great Mystery," even Native Americans have a hard time defining the power behind all of life), these all resonated with me. I have not once had even the slightest urge to pick up once in the last 25 months by "practising these principles in all my affairs". Today everything has turned around for me, and my life could not be better.

The best way to start is to join an AA group, get a sponsor, get phone numbers (and use them!) when you are having a struggle, and just keep working at it. I was in AA for about 6 years before my last drink, but the single best thing I did for myself was to stick with it. It worked when I was ready for it to work, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.

I wish you success, my friend.
Michelle

Social climber
SH60091
Aug 14, 2012 - 09:03pm PT
I forgot about this thread! Holy cow. Michelle is hanging in there.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Aug 14, 2012 - 09:51pm PT
RIGHT ON Michelle!!!!!
moresnowplease

Sport climber
MAmmoth Lakes, CA
Aug 14, 2012 - 10:14pm PT
This is my first post. I've lurked on this board for awhile.

I'm proud to report im 19 mos sober. Its not been super easy. I own a little beer pub and all my climbing partners seem to always involve beer or weed at some point in the day. Its frustrating and I understand what you are going through in terms of identity. I feel left out a lot. But the bottom line is that I look back and see the sh#t show I was drinking and just do not want to go back to those problems or worse problems. I wish i could find more sober friends that enjoy doing what I do and its super hard living in a mountain/tourist town.

FWIW I appreciate your honesty and thank you for posting this thread. I dont feel so alone when I know others are going through some of the same sh#t.

OK duh i just looked at the date of this thread but my inspired words will remain haha.
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
the green triangle, cali
Aug 14, 2012 - 11:11pm PT
10 months today. so worth it.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 14, 2012 - 11:29pm PT
Dude you can do it! The bartender @ the restarunte that i worked at in a former life was sober... Club soda w/ a lime should get you through work no problem:) that and watching what happens to all the drunks @ your bar.....
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 26, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
Sixteen Candles.....on my Sober Birthday Cake today!
Michelle

Trad climber
the f*#king peninsula.
Aug 26, 2012 - 03:30pm PT
Happy happy bday happie!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 26, 2012 - 05:25pm PT
Happy, Happi! And everyone else out there!
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Aug 26, 2012 - 07:05pm PT
Yes - a very happy birthday to you Happie!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 26, 2012 - 09:31pm PT
Cool Happy! I made it past my 6th yesterday without even knowing it was the day? just remembered when i saw your post...
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 27, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
Congrats to you, too, Tradman! I also went through a phase for some of the week coming to my anniversary where I forgot, but then on Saturday I was walking the Shongum Path and recalled... I was thinking "Okay, so it's 11am on the day before my first sober day, 16 years ago... Where was I at this moment?

I happened to be in Bloomingdales, and one of the expensive health and beauty people had snagged me with a free something or other. She got me in the chair, said "Let's have a look at your skin....Brought this gigantic magnifying mirror to my face and snapped on the light.

"GAAAAAHHHHH!" My pours looked like they were big enough to place a purple tricam in, lines like deadly crevasses... She said "Oh, you really do need help." And I walked away with a FORTY-FIVE DOLLAR bottle of face cream the size of my thumb. I recall thinking, in my muddled mind, that maybe this cream would be the thing that makes my life okay...

Oh boy!


(And I should mention that since I have been living in the cabin/on the road, I haven't touched face cream OR cleanser to my face in about two years. My skin is as good-looking as it has ever been, maybe even better. It's quite interesting, how we believe the consumerists BS we're told....).
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Sep 22, 2012 - 12:19am PT
I guess there should be another thread.. the Codependent thread..for those whose dearest loved ones are alcoholics, sober or not.
I hope for some insight into the tough side of those relationships. How much success have people had in the 12 step groups? I've tried a couple but never clicked. It's the long term relationships that are the hardest, I think, because it so easy for habits to become entrenched by repetition.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Sep 22, 2012 - 01:33am PT
^^^^
Keep trying different meetings. They all have their own vibe. Also try other towns in your area. Get to meetings early and stay late. Most of the people that really have the real stuff are usually the ones that are involved in the group. Just a couple of suggestions.
Kenygl

Trad climber
Salt Lake City
Sep 22, 2012 - 07:09am PT
Ditto what the plaidster said. Dude we'd most likely be friends;)Heading to my favorite meeting in 3 hours. Good sh#t.
Kenygl

Trad climber
Salt Lake City
Sep 22, 2012 - 07:13am PT
Oh yeah, when my wife went to Alanon (I was..let's say, difficult to read) our relationship went into hyperdrive. We deal with our stuff, we own our crap, and we are at peace with our shortcomings. Life's better when 100% of the team is working on recovery. But sometimes 50% has to do.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Sep 22, 2012 - 04:07pm PT
Happi, that's a great story! But I got you beat, I've made multi-thousand dollar purchases in a total, complete, burroughs-worthy blackout. I guess when we're on a run we have a tendancy to take our resources, both personal and financial and spiritual and psychological, right to the limit, wherever it may be. Lord knows I should be dead a gazillion times over from my climbing debacles while unroped and wasted. I've driven half of my oldest friends into alanon. Oh well, WTF, life goes on. I get to take my daughter to the movies this evening. She's 12 going on 20. So sorry we didn't get to climb in josh this spring, but my life was epic at that point. Maybe the gunks this fall? I owe some freinds on the Vinyard a visit..!

PS yeah I know our screw-ups are not supposed to be a competition...but when you wake up with a $3000 charge on your debit card and you have no clue what you purchased...well, I'm just sayin'...
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Oct 23, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
It's tough today. I started trauma work for the MST and decided sober was the best shot at success. Just sayin.
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Oct 23, 2012 - 09:09pm PT
Good luck Michelle. Hang tough and do what you need to do.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 23, 2012 - 10:55pm PT
Hang tough! the flavored seltzers work well for me. Fizzy and some good natural flavor but no sugar or calories.....
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
Oct 23, 2012 - 11:12pm PT
five months sober as of today.


This time last year I was regularly finishing 18 packs, drinking at least a 12 pack a day. Throwing hard alcohol in sometimes. Not to mention healthy puffs of herb. I fell down lots walking back to my campsite at jtree sometimes with injuries the next morning(no serious injuries its a MIRACLE).Luckily for me I wasn't a violent or mean drunk but I still have a few a-hole moments that I'm not proud of

I was able to do it cold turkey. I moved that was a big help none of my friends are here to offer me something and no one even knows that I was a drunk.

Everybody loves to party but when you need to party everyday like I did it's hard to keep it from being a problem.
Kenygl

Trad climber
Salt Lake City
Oct 23, 2012 - 11:34pm PT
Good going. Keep tight to your support, not many do it alone.
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Oct 24, 2012 - 03:01am PT
Thanks. I go on and off. Life is good but frankly, could be better. Not worth it anymore.
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Oct 25, 2012 - 04:05pm PT
drinking habit can be deadly in some circumstances.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/9630509/North-Korean-army-minister-executed-with-mortar-round.html
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Oct 25, 2012 - 05:22pm PT
So I'm curious what people think about non-alcoholic beer. I considered buying some of this the other day, and didn't because it just seemed like it would either make me really crave a real, better tasting beer, or it would be a slippery slope kinda thing.


My uncle quit drinking in his late 20s due to it acting as a trigger for his epilepsy (at least that's what they said at the time, no idea about the medical validity of that), and he went the Non-alc beers route. Seemed to work for him, but I don't think he had a dependence to start with.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 25, 2012 - 05:31pm PT
^ ^
I've been a beer drinker for many years--sometimes far more than promotes optimum health!
I like non-alcoholic beer and go through phases of drinking it regularly and phases of not drinking it at all. From talking to other people, I can tell I'm in the minority: most people don't like it. But I don't like sweet drinks too much, and the tart, mildly beer like flavor is sometimes better tasting than water.

It doesn't make me crave real beer, but again, YMMV
I like the brand Clausthaler significantly better than any other I've tasted.

The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Oct 25, 2012 - 05:39pm PT
I think Non-alcohol is a good subbie for beer unless you're hanging out with a bunch of drunks. Then you just wanna kick someone in the nuts.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 25, 2012 - 06:45pm PT
A tastes like crap.
B tastes too much like real crappy beer to be a good idea for this recovered drunk
C too many calories.

Ihad a friend who tried that route. He ended up knocking back 30 Odouls a day and feeling like crap and spending just as much money so he said screw it and went back to 30 packs of the real thing...

The new seltzers are amazeing. Zero calories, zero sodium, all natural flavors and a nice punch with the carbonation.
YMMV
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 25, 2012 - 07:06pm PT
Harrison gave me an o'douls at facelift and at the time it reay hit the spot and tasted great! But I haven't felt compelled to get more. For a while, when it was hot here in Moab, I had a serious seltzer water thing going on, but now that it's in the fifties, that compulsion seems to be back burner till next spring.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Oct 25, 2012 - 07:56pm PT
I drink non alkies as well.

I like the amber version of Odoul's. When I can get it, my favorite is a German non alcoholic beer called Schofferhoffer. Very good, but they don't sell it or import it, to the States.

Drinking non alcoholic beer doesn't give me any desire to drink a real one, and I can go with or without them. I actually really enjoyed the taste of beer at one time, especially craft brews. Back when I was still a "normie" that meant more to me then getting a buzz on. And there are a few non alcoholics that are pretty decent in the taste department.

I really wouldn't recommend it for everyone though. It depends on your program and yourself - for some this would just create too easy of a stepping stone back to the real thing.

Stevee B

Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
Oct 25, 2012 - 07:58pm PT
No opinion but a personal story. Many years ago myself and another friend in recovery were out with friends Apres-ski at mexican food. Everyone else ordered beers, we both ordered O'douls. I was about 3 years sober, he about 1 year sober at the time.
After finishing our O'douls we both agreed, "hey those were good, I'll have another!". For some reason a voice in my head said "don't do it" so I changed my mind and declined. He had another, no biggie.
He relapsed a few months after that, and when he was trying to get sober again two years later, he shared with me that he thought that the craving switch was flipped at our O'douls drinking episode years prior, that it started him thinking about drinking again, until he did.

I tend to think there were other factors that may have led him back to drinking, but that's all personal opinion. His version of the story has been enough to keep me from ever drinking another one, that coupled with my instant reaction of "yes please, more."

I like the La Croix seltzers a lot. I also homebrew some ginger ale that is miiiiiighty tasty!
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Oct 25, 2012 - 08:02pm PT
fwiw, my dad calls it "teasing his disease". He did drank them when he was weaning, but felt like it was part of a behavior habit that he needed to break along w/ the chemical habit. I'm sure it's fine for some. Maybe it's meaningful that you're concerned about it?
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Oct 25, 2012 - 11:39pm PT
Good insight to the mind here. Thanks for the true stories.
You know what is going on in my skull people.
Trying to grasp something solid.
Slip slidi'n away.
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Oct 26, 2012 - 12:40am PT
I am in Bend OR. right now. No work for me. Trying very hard but can't find a job in this town. Nothing. Confounded and confused. If someone on this site would like to get together tomorrow or this weekend, or any time, I would be much obliged to have your company.
I still have enough change to buy you a coffee or tea!










mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Oct 26, 2012 - 02:44am PT
Gotta bump this up for the weekend.
Would like to meet a climber, who might relate to this thread.
I am in Bend OR. Have rope, rack, and Smith parking pass.
I will climb, or belay all day for the sheer joy of being out there.
If you like to fly fish, I like that too, and I have plenty of gear and flies to share.

I have been here a couple of months and I have gone to several meetings without feeling any connection to the group.

Are there any kindred spirits out in SuperTopoland?
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Oct 26, 2012 - 03:40am PT
I just don't see the point in drinking non-alcoholic beer.
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
Oct 26, 2012 - 06:17am PT
Mountain dog you do have kindred spirits here on the taco! Wish I was in Bend to hang with you. Instead I'm on the other side of the world and without many people to relate to. Keep it sober brother. Don't relapse. Go out and climb hard with someone go back home and do what makes you happy but stay sober!

Good Luck!
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Oct 26, 2012 - 10:08am PT
When I'm at a sports bar or brew pub with friends or for work, and the waitron asks me what I'm drinking, I'll pause long and hard, like I'm seriously pondering which malted pop I'll be imbibing in. Then I'll say:


"I'm drinking water tonight"




Works every time. Like a fukkin fairy tale.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Oct 26, 2012 - 12:37pm PT
Mountain Dog - we get down to Smith often and will be moving there in a couple of years. I look at this thread since my son is a recovering addict and my husband is the son of an alcoholic. You wouldn't find us at a meeting, but you will find us in the park. There are many folks who like a life with some adventure but don't indulge in a lot of partying. You'll recognize us - my husband is the big strong man ordering the virgin peach daiquiri. Hope to run into you - we always enjoy the company of a new face and some social climbing.
Kenygl

Trad climber
Salt Lake City
Oct 26, 2012 - 12:45pm PT
MD, hit a meeting. Then go climbing.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Nov 17, 2012 - 06:51pm PT
My theory was that this is just like when my alarm clock goes off at 5:30 AM and my first thought every time is, reset the alarm for later. Once I overcome that obstacle, the rest of the day is easy.

The other night a business contact took me out to dinner at a nice steakhouse. I had two ice cold nut brown ales and got hammered. I never drink anymore and alcohol is a powerful drug for me. I didn't crave more after those two and didnt crave more of them since. Many years ago, when I drank regularly, one beer would lead to another like a reflex, but I don't have it anymore. It was cured by having an iron will.

Next, I have to get my lead head back. Unfortunately, I have probably lost that too, for years I've lived in such crappy places for climbing.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Nov 17, 2012 - 07:26pm PT
It's been over two years no booze no hootch.
Thought about posting up but it's too easy to fall into the trap of measuring the quality of our sobriety by time spent in abstinence and I wouldn't want to contribute to that view.
For many, abstinence is not a requirement for sobriety and I envy such fortunates.
I admire the courage and honesty of those who say not good enough, embark on a path more appropriate for their personal success and then, share their stories here.
It's particularly inspiring when such stories are told by my friends and heroes.
Thanks again to Hank for this thread and those willing to contribute.

Edit:
I haven't made any promises, never's a long time!
I'm not on the wagon's 'cause it's just a vehicle from one binge to another.
slodog

Trad climber
ontario canada
Dec 2, 2012 - 10:11am PT
be true to yourself-honesty, integrity,-no matter what life and those in it throw at you-and beleive me i've had my share of sh@t thrown at me.nothing is more important than honesty-it is the value of a man.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Dec 2, 2012 - 10:21am PT
its all true, man;
the entire journey beneath us is valid.
except for the part about
discovering our inner beauty
along the way or even at the end
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Dec 2, 2012 - 01:39pm PT
Jebus...best wishes...
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Dec 4, 2012 - 04:16am PT
jebus, son.
the proximity of my recent utterings upon this topic
as positionally related to your confession of new-found chemical-anti-relations

does not imply a correlation between the two.

let me have my
thousand verses of nothing.
its everything i have to say,
and nothing less.

my head is fixed in the universe.
i pounded it into the void
centuries ago;
and though many thoughts have
passed thru it en route to their epic summit goals,
my command center
remains static,
and will forever be tat
blowing in the gales of a dreamless silence.

carry your torch higher,
as your ambitions guide you.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Dec 4, 2012 - 09:01am PT
Club soda, fizzy water, whatever you call it is the best. Come to Boulder Jebus - we are overdue for a Boulder area HH where coffee and club soda are as prevalent as other beverages!
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Dec 4, 2012 - 09:29am PT
Hang in there, Jebus, it gets better every day. It took me not drinking to regain the life I had always wanted and deserved. Alcohol just wanted to steal all of that.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 4, 2012 - 10:24am PT
A coffee toast for now and a fizzy water sometime down the road Jebus, cheers!
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Dec 4, 2012 - 10:31am PT
To each their own, but I feel blessed for where I am at now.

All the best to ya Jebus H Bomz! That is part of living sober. Being blessed for where you are at that moment. Sometimes it sucks, but the times you can feel love, contentment, peace, and real pleasure make up for it.

Like I said all the best and welcome to the clan!

Plaid
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Dec 12, 2012 - 09:57am PT
After 3 years and 2 months, I finally got my drivers license reinstated yesterday. Some thoughts:

I was actively drinking, a lot, when I picked up my second DWI in two years. The first one resulted in about $5K in fines and fees and a 9 month suspension. The second one got me a month in jail, about $12K in fines and fees, and a 3 year suspension. Nothing the State did, no penalties they enforced, got me to stop drinking, and I used the resulting resentments as an excuse to drink more as an escape, and then as a physical and mental need.

It wasn't until I was ready to stop drinking that I checked myself into rehab and started a path of recovery that would work for me. A lot of alcoholics will never take that first step to sobriety, and I count myself as extremely lucky to have seen that light. I owe much to a supportive and loving family, but it's not enough to get sober for them, you have to do it for yourself. Today I am just short of 2 1/2 years, and life has never been better.

I have to use an Intoxilock device for the next year, which will include my four month cross country road trip next Spring. That means blowing into a box to start the truck, again 2-5 minutes later, and then randomly every 5-20 minutes after. I could choose to be pissed off about that, but I choose to accept that my new found driving privilege comes with a minor inconvenience. It's not like I don't breathe anyway when I drive.

happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 12, 2012 - 11:47am PT
Edge - I hadn't realized that device required as many blows. Lat year when the van alternator went out in PA, the mechanic drove me up to the local ATM machine, and with slight embarrassment, he said "I need to blow into this, and I will explain after" and that was my first experience seeing one of those at work.

I hadn't realized he was probably needing to blow into it regularly - thought it was a very random thing, or else the one time to start a vehicle.

This guy went on to also rail away at the state being absurdly overzealous with the thing. After all, he had only had 3 beers that night he got pulled over... Now, he said, he just has the wife drive when they go out, so he needn't worry about getting in trouble for having a few damned drinks, which he doesn't even feel intoxicated over.... He simply did not connect the dots. An person who does not have a drinking problem also does not have a problem with not driving if they have been drinking!

I let him go on, and on... and then finally I said "Well, the reason for the very strict laws is because innocent people were being killed by intoxicated drivers. Some of those drivers wake up the next day and have no awareness that they ran into, ran over or killed another person. I know that most people would have trouble living with themselves, knowing that their impaired state caused such a thing. And so I think the laws are a good thing."

He looked at me - sort of pissed - and I said "I am an alcoholic myself" and told him whatever time sober I had. Then "They didn't have these laws when I was drinking, and I drove drunk often. Very drunk, often. I am really glad I never hurt anyone doing that."

So - may be that guy really just had the bad luck of a fluke having one too many beers one night. But the look in his eyes during this conversation made me think otherwise....


I'm sober today, and glad of it!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 12, 2012 - 11:56am PT
Good work Edge. That's more rigorously honest than most of us can get about our troubles, past and present.

My hat's off to you.
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:56pm PT
Edge - I hadn't realized that device required as many blows. Lat year when the van alternator went out in PA, the mechanic drove me up to the local ATM machine, and with slight embarrassment, he said "I need to blow into this, and I will explain after" and that was my first experience seeing one of those at work.

I hadn't realized he was probably needing to blow into it regularly - thought it was a very random thing, or else the one time to start a vehicle.

Terry, I believe certain states have different requirements, and NH is one of the most strict. When the little box beeps at me, I have one minute to push the button, wait 5 secs for the machine to "clear", then blow for three seconds, suck for two seconds, and then blow again for 3-4 seconds until it beeps again and vibrates. It then takes about 5 seconds to register "passed" or "not passed."

From what I heard, if it registers "not passed" it will start honking your horn and flashing the lights, but doesn't shut down the engine so that you would be unsafe. It will then lock you out of the ignition once you turn it off until another replacement box is installed so that the original goes back to the supplier to be downloaded and the results forwarded to the State.

I am relieved that I no longer desire alcohol, but supposedly certain foods will trigger a false reading, and you are not supposed to eat for 15 minutes before driving, or have anything more than water while driving. Oh well, I hate drive-thru food anyway.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 12, 2012 - 02:57pm PT
Watch out for kambucha, the peppermint sprinkles they have in the gelato at the Moab brewery and soy sauce (it's fermented)!
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Dec 12, 2012 - 03:23pm PT
Sitting here is the hospital as they put my leg back together the only thing I have for sure is my program. Thanks for that!

JL
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Dec 12, 2012 - 05:32pm PT
watch out for the meds Largo, they are as bad as the evil juice,

i almost went off yesterday, had a good friend drown while kayaking,

makes you think that life is short so why not drink,

well, it gets even shorter if you do drink we need to watch our "logical" processes because that is what leads to drinking, screwed up logic that you use for an excuse,

many bad things happen in life, so you have to try and make it through these tests, and if you do, you will pe better prepared for the next test,

i just get pounded on energy drinks everytime i want a buzz, yeah it is a substitute but whatever works,
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 12, 2012 - 06:26pm PT
Kudos to everyone who is staying clean! Especially those whose life circumstances could be an easy excuse to self medicate.

One of the #1 signs of a serious drinking problem is claiming that your DWI was not your fault. Without fail everyone I ever met who went off about how the bastard cops hosed them with a DWI and they wern't even drunk was a complete trainwreck .....
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Dec 12, 2012 - 07:52pm PT
Oh sh#t that sounds serious.
slodog

Trad climber
ontario canada
Dec 12, 2012 - 08:18pm PT
wishing you a speedy recovery Largo-glad to hear your program is there for you.
i sometimes forget to be grateful for what i have..thank you for the reminder
Doug
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Dec 12, 2012 - 09:09pm PT
Reading this really helps.

I've clean now for a couple weeks. I used to be a super hippie pot head. Then I was blessed with a awsome job in the medical field, which included random drug tests. Good bye weed. So... Along comes the synthetic alternative to weed. Incense or k2 are some common names. Let me tell you its nothing like marijuana. I was HOOKED bad! After a time it felt like something I had to do to live, as strong of an urge as being hungry. It took some serious mind power to stop. Thank god I avoided rehab. I am ever thankful to my sweet girlfriend Jordan. She has been a blessing, helping me stop. I'm very lucky to have somebody that doesn't understand but supports me anyway and will also follow me up whatever climb I wanna jump on. Thanks baby and thanks to the super taco. You guys are some real dicks sometimes but reading this makes me realize what an amazing group of dudes I have access to. Thanks baby and thanks taco bros!
Max C
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Dec 12, 2012 - 09:35pm PT
Bump
newmexico

Social climber
Inside my head
Dec 12, 2012 - 10:35pm PT
Who the hell are you people?

Some of the most amazing writers, climbers, cyber friends that I have never met. mostly I just lurk and I am so hesitant to jump into any thread because I have always felt my writing and obvious spelling skills were not up to par. I am just so compelled to chime into this thread. Seems like we all have our demons, and desires. Whether trying to let go, start a fundraiser for a fallen brother, find out who stole our fixed lines, or who said what about whomever. Like it or not you people have become my friends. While I have my own struggles, I think you all would be willing to lend a thirsty ear and try to help me out in the best ways possible, and I am so thankful for that. Someone once mentioned 'it's not what lies before us or after us, it's what lies within us' and whatever the battle may be it is really my hope that those seeking sobriety find the strenght to embrace it, come what may. Some of the honesty in the above threads has led me to beleive that the human spirit on this site is so much alive and well, that my struggles are so small as compared to what some are going through. happy Holidays!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 12, 2012 - 10:45pm PT
If you met us IRL you'd come to the sudden and sad realization that we're a woeful collection of creaky, bitchy, over-the-hill yahoos embittered that time has swept past, relegating us to the festering chosspile of history. ;-}
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 12, 2012 - 11:00pm PT
Could be worse!
;)
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Dec 12, 2012 - 11:11pm PT
If you met us IRL you'd some to the sudden and sad realization that we're a woeful collection of creaky, bitchy, over-the-hill yahoos embittered that time has swept past, relegating us to the festering chosspile of history. ;-}

Aaaand, loving it! (Sober)
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 12, 2012 - 11:17pm PT
BTW Edge, I rocked an IID in my rig for 18 months, which included many long drives between Flagstaff and San Diego. No big deal. The only real drag was that if the stereo was way cranked you had to remember to glance down at the IID every three or four minutes to make sure the five-minute "blow" countdown clock wasen't running.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 12, 2012 - 11:25pm PT
I've clean now for a couple weeks.

ay to go, LubbockClimber!
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Dec 13, 2012 - 12:29am PT
So-bri-tee in dah house.
T2

climber
Cardiff by the sea
Dec 13, 2012 - 09:00pm PT
I just paced back and forth in front of the liquor store for 15 minutes and just about threw away 8 years. I got a real good case of the f*#k its right now. Just need to get through a few more hours
T2

climber
Cardiff by the sea
Dec 13, 2012 - 09:05pm PT
thanks ekat not feeling any love from anywhere but montana right now I appreciate it !
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Dec 13, 2012 - 09:19pm PT
Hey, T2. I've always admired your approach to climbing and the climbs that you've done that you share here. I was so psyched for you when I was first starting up my walls and looking up to you, and you shared that you got sober. I'd love to hang sober with you in the Valley some day. Diet cokes are on me. Just keep pushing through December. Eventually May comes back around. Add some Berkeley love to your Montana love, and maybe you can find some friends at a meeting wherever you're at right now to give you some more.
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Dec 13, 2012 - 09:24pm PT
T2, Hang in there... sending you some strength from Chico....

Sacramento valley, Bay area and Montana taken care of...(-;

Lots of people ..do care....

Saludos
nita


John M

climber
Dec 13, 2012 - 09:29pm PT
I got a real good case of the f*#k its right now.

Man.. do I know about that. Dealing with a pretty severe case myself.



Only thing I can think to say is .. Just don't drink.

I wish that I could offer more, but thats all I have right now. I don't have a problem with drinking anymore. I did at one time. My problems are.. well, I don't really want to say right now, but if you have read the taco for long then maybe you have seen some of my history. What I do know is that drinking created more problems then it helped.

And damn.. you have 3 great ladies rooting for you. You must be doing something right.
slodog

Trad climber
ontario canada
Dec 13, 2012 - 09:29pm PT
one day at a time-keep it simple-and quit hanging around the liquer store.you wouldn't hang out at a barber shop unless you wanted a hair cut.
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Dec 13, 2012 - 09:32pm PT
8 years? Don't throw that away man.
Support and fellowship coming to you from California.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 13, 2012 - 09:51pm PT
Grab a soda or nice juice, T2. Sometimes that little bit of sugar curbs the urge. Good for you for talking about it too. Talk is good - drunken talk, not so much!


About the "barber shop" thing - the best variation I ever heard was "If you hang out with bank robbers, eventually you'll find yourself driving the getaway car." I loved the Bonnie and Clyde era imagery that came to my mind when I heard it the first time - but I don't wanna be in that car, driving OR being driven!
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Dec 13, 2012 - 09:54pm PT
Hey T2, been there. Sorry to hear that you're there now.

Take it a minute at a time if you have to, but please don't pick up that first drink - that's the one with the drunk in it.

Pick up the phone instead, call someone or hit a meeting if you can. You can get through this.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 13, 2012 - 11:09pm PT
Hang in there...hang in there...
Santa Cruz checkin' in

Susan
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Dec 13, 2012 - 11:12pm PT
T2 - I always remind myself that there ain't nothing out there that a drink wouldn't make 10x worse.

Hang in there man. Sending anti-f*#kit vibes your way.
T2

climber
Cardiff by the sea
Dec 13, 2012 - 11:49pm PT
I am my own worst enemy. I can create a total sh#t storm in my head way to easy. I got to a meeting, between that and now you guys I will get through today. I am home and i'm just going to go to bed I appreciate the love you guys! My sobor date is 12/24/04, but today for some reason was as tough as any I have had. I will however put it behind me here in a few. I have been complacent, not going to regular meetings, first holiday season living on my own (after getting divorced) financial distress yada yada bla bla bla ...... Whatever!

Bottom line its nothing a drink would change anyway. Thanks again for you concern and support that is what I needed.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 14, 2012 - 12:00am PT
First holiday alone after getting divorced?! DUDE. You should be at motherf*#king Defcon 5. Use the Force!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 14, 2012 - 01:41am PT
"Once upon a time you was a cucumber.

Now you's a pickle.

And you can't never be a cucumber again....."

There's some funny sh#t at meetings!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 14, 2012 - 01:44am PT
Ran across this today:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Dec 14, 2012 - 09:37am PT
From Seamstress June 2012

Many years later, the unseen liver damage is now apparent. A wild youth topped with piles of tylenol led to cirrhosis, hepatitis, and liver cancer. Not curable. Not a candidate for transplant. I watch them cry about missing the golden years together. I watch his daughter cry that Daddy won't be around to walk her down the aisle. I watch his son wonder if Daddy will live to see his high school graduation or Eagle Scout ceremony.

My late brother Mac, my closest brother, died on May 18 of liver cancer. What caused it? Hard to say but my oldest brother, Casey, who after retirement volunteers to be chairman of the Teamsters Northern California Substance Abuse Committee, says that people who have had cirrhosis of the liver have a 34 times more likely chance of contracting liver cancer.

Mac, by peer recognition, was one of the top winemakers in the world. He eventually stopped (still tasting but spitting out, that's all that is needed, one does need to swallow to know what makes a fine wine), but only after his cirrhosis. The liver can take a lot of abuse, but then only so much. In industries like winemaking (also brewing, spirits etc) alcoholism is an occupational hazard.

I miss Mac. My partner Jennie, her dementia (Korsakoff's) was caused by alcoholism. I am living with it every day.

Moderation. But sometimes it is too late.

Good luck and best wishes to all Taco Standers.
newmexico

Social climber
Inside my head
Dec 14, 2012 - 11:50am PT
Tommy T,

I am in Carlsbad, at prAna looking at one of our very first posters...It's a photo of YOU hanging in a porta ledge. sending you strenght from So.Cal man.

JL
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Dec 14, 2012 - 11:55am PT
Hey T2, stay strong.
Think bout the good times.
Get out on that sweet mountain bike you built.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 14, 2012 - 11:56am PT
Don't know why, but I found that one of the most UNfunny Robin Williams things I've seen.

Too much truth, not enough funny.

Still useful maybe.
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Dec 14, 2012 - 11:57am PT
Tommy, My dad's sobriety date is the 21st. I think Christmas helped bring him to his rock bottom back then. It's hard for a lot of us for a variety of reasons. Hopefully, you'll find the fellowship that will help you stay the course through the season, however many meetings a day, however far you have to drive to find them it takes. I'm rooting for you.

Patrick, I'm sorry to read about your brother. My dad's first sponsor was an 80 year old man with 40 years of sobriety. And when he died after all of those sober years it was still from liver cancer. I guess he hit the bottle harder than most when he was at it, and I have to wonder how fast it would have caught up with him if he hadn't stopped. I wasn't even born when he got sober, but I sure did get to see him help a lot of people change their lives for the better as a sober old man.
Kenygl

Trad climber
Salt Lake City
Dec 14, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
tough time of year for the warriors among us. Family, lack of family, parties, loneliness, "Others can drink why can't I", etc, etc. Hang close to your sober friends if you got 'em. Or find a sober haven. Hang tough during the holiday's ya'll. It gets better, or worse, or real.
Pillowattack

Boulder climber
DC
Dec 14, 2012 - 01:23pm PT
Hey all. Just joined this site and this topic was just what I needed to see.

Got sober in the DC area in april 2011 at age 26, and had many ups and downs. Recently, I haven't wanted to drink, but I don't want to go to meetings. I don't know if its something everyone goes through, but I feel like I have a "f**k it, what has AA done for me lately" kind of outlook right now. I know that isn't how it works and I generally get out what I put in, but its still hard to break that pattern of thinking.

Climbing has definitely helped keep me sane through all this, I feel real peace when I'm on the wall. But I feel like I'm using it as a substitute to meetings and a HP, and usually wake up feeling pretty sad.

Anyways, I'm trying to get involved again and been going to more meetings. Not so surprisingly, I feel really good when I do go and try to help another alcoholic. I wish that I didn't have to keep testing the theory, then realizing "AA works, I feel good when I do this". Then not doing it consistently.

Well, I love you guys, glad to see other climbers sharing their experience like this.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 14, 2012 - 07:16pm PT
I never went to a meeting and I am doing really good. so whatever works for you as long as you feel strong.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jan 1, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 1, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
Annother awsome new years day without a hangover:)
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 1, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
Yo Pillow,
I just PM'd you about the Unity Club in Falls Church.
It's the best I've ever been to, and that ain't no BULL!!!!
Woody the Beaver

Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
Jan 2, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
Finally read the thread and just want to say thanks. 10 years and five months for me, and my climbing skills have not been affected in the least. That is, I still can't climb worth squat! Reading this is like a familiar home meeting; I dig it when Largo chimes in, the wise old-timer who knows where the juice is. I'm so happy to be free of that alky crap; thanks, everybody who testified along the way.

Woody
Leggs

Sport climber
Home away from Home
Jan 2, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
Annother awsome new years day without a hangover:)

Can I get an AMEN!?

Drinking and I recently had an amicable breakup... and I have never felt so good.


Woody, your words summarize this thread wonderfully.


~peace
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Jan 2, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
Good on you all! I've never been a drinker (although I swear I will have a martini before I die) however I have seen some family members and too many friends devastated by the drink. I felt helpless, many reclaimed their lives, others sadly, not. The struggle is profound and I salute all of you that have been able to prevail...and those that aren't there yet, keep fighting!
I've been a lucky one in that a single beer or glass of wine gives me plenty of buzz

Keep up the good work,
Susan
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 2, 2013 - 04:23pm PT
Starting off 2013 clean and sober -despite having a friend who knows I am clean offer me a pot cookie.....WTF???

The funny thing...the ones who ate the cookie said they didn't get buzzed anyway; it was a dud. Now imagine if I had thrown it all away, for a damned pot cookie that didn't even work!?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 2, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
I guess it is a "sobriety" thread, not an alcohol dependence thread (which is how I tend to view it, through my own experience being an alcohol issue).

For me personally, I don't seek out an entirely sober existence. Dependency, overuse, physical damage, life consequences, etc are what concern me. Consequently, an occasional puff on some herb or trip into psychedelic wonderland doesn't upset my program. I can easily do that, then not think about it or touch it again for days, weeks, months, (or years in the case of heavy psychedlics)...whatever, no stress no mess. Not so with the booze...which is why I quit.

This thread is a pretty good little repository of support for some of us. Probably especially for the non-joiners among us. It isn't likely you'll ever find me at some kind of organized AA meeting, but it's still nice to get the sense of shared experience and community from peers sharing their stories and trials here. And you don't even have to deal with bad coffee or chain smoking old timers.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 2, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
Made it throgh the month. *WHEW*
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 2, 2013 - 06:17pm PT
I have not had a drug habit since the 70's so I do not feel bad takeing a puff or two every coupple of years.. One friend left a bowl of herb in my house for a a few years. I took one puff and then let it sit for annother 2 yrs before I finished it. that has zero to do with my sobriety. free from the booze is what I need to worry about.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Jan 2, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
what, was it new years eve the other night?

i thought the gangs were out,

made it thru the hardest night, thinking of barenders cleaning up puke in the bathrooms helps keep me on coffee nd energy drinks plus herb, but no hangover juice can i get an amen,

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 2, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
Not saying that's what's happening to you

Oh, I think you're spot-on, that's pretty much exactly what happened to me. Many years (~20) of heavy drinking became a dependence. At times it was just a social lubricant, at other times it was a reality avoidance mechanism, and at the end it was a physical dependence on top of those.

I didn't have a crash and burn, crisis type "bottom". Mine was sitting there in my living room, and feeling physically ill when I realized I had no alcohol left in the house and knowing I had to get dressed and drive to the store, just so I'd be able to even get to sleep that night. That was the "I am a slave bitch to this drug, I am an addict" moment.

Haven't had a drink in...about 34 months...give or take. I think mid March will be the 3 year mark.
Leggs

Sport climber
Home away from Home
Jan 2, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
but no hangover juice can i get an amen,

Amen.

~peace
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 2, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
Elcap. i can relate. no DWI or any other major drama. just found myself to be dependant on a certain ammount of alcohol every day to get by and hitting it hard at least once a week. Bad stomach, bleeding a bit, acid reflux.... etc...
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Jan 2, 2013 - 08:19pm PT
I just celebrated 29 years and man what a ride its been. Used to sit and drink and talk about all these grand things I was going to do. Got sober and did almost everything I dreampt of. Could never have pulled that off any other way.

Burly Bob
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 2, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
Yeah, true for me here as well. Lots of heavy drinking followed by physical dependance. The only way I could sleep for a long time, was to drink until I passed out.

There was even a point when I knew damned good and well that a problem was starting, and I could have chosen to nip it in the bud then - back when I was still relatively "normal." At that point I didn't really give much of a rat's ass whether I lived or died, so I kept on drinking.

This New Years was a little tough for me. Spent it down in Mexico with my gal, and hanging out at Papas n Beer was really reminding me of all my party days south of the border. Still easy to shut down the desire, but it was a good reminder that I will always have to stay on my toes and not get lax in what I do to stay sober.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 2, 2013 - 09:29pm PT
Many years (~20) of heavy drinking became a dependence. At times it was just a social lubricant, at other times it was a reality avoidance mechanism, and at the end it was a physical dependence on top of those.

Yep. I got myself a little breathalizer and discoved that I needed to maintain a ~.015 blood alcohol level jst to keep from being dopesick. Had to get it over .025 to feel at all loaded. Standard powerdrinking can go really bad really fast if yo become chemically dependent.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 2, 2013 - 09:44pm PT
When I quit, I was on a 3-daycycle. Drink massively (usually alone at home, always to blackout); next day a hideous hangover, and the next day feeling just a little funky still. The next night, ready to go again,and usually did.

I had no crisis bottom either, but I had known I was an alcoholic since I was about 24, and didn't get sober until 36....

One thing that always stuck when I heard it in meetings was when an older guy (it was almost always an older guy) said one day the went to drink and the booze didn't have an effect. They were physically addicted to the stuff, but the effect was gone, and that was utter hell. Even at my 3-day cycle, I could WELL imagine the horror of having the drink not work.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 2, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
Yeah. It's bad.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 2, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
hey there say, all, had not stopped by here, to visit lately, on this post, as i been so busy... i used to try to stop at as many as i could, just see how folks were, what was up, or if there were any neats, or just good talk going on...

thank for the recent share, happiegrrrl...

i need to add on new info--not sure where i shared it, as to the whole forum--but i had shared how my ex son in law had stopped drinking, when his new gal back then, and mom of his newest baby (their only one--he had two others, by my dauhter) WAS going to leave him...

well, he stopped the excessive party stuff, and toned it way down and they got married... it was a huge change... however,
i just learned from her--due to them suddenly getting a divorce this summer, that: after they moved into their bigger house, and had more friends over that he had been stepping up the ladder, a wrung at time...

she did not want to be the naggy wife and since the worst had stopped and everything else was going smooth, she thought it only fair to 'sail along this way'... after all--as the common thought goes: a man works awful hard and should be allowed his relaxation(such DAMAGE that does!) (getting loaded only does causes the body MORE stress)...

well, sure enough,it was not just weekends, anymore, and unknown to me (being that i lived too far away then/and now, to know: he was becoming
his same old 'self', and always obnoxtious when drunk...

(thankful that the kids never saw, as they were asleep--and did not understand how the afterwork-at-home 'few drinks' was adding up all night... and all these years... :(

well, i said all this, to say THIS... (yep, i prep the soil before i sow
the few seeds that i share) :)

WELL, TO SAY THIS:

IN spite of any good intentions, one will never really stop drinking until one honestly STUDIES and learns WHY one is drinking and the all-fired URGE is for this need... (and it varies from personal thoughts of: just plain 'fun', to 'escapism of work or home pressures, bills, etc, or the work-day-troubles' to 'needing more backbone' to face things in life, wanting what is 'thought to be' persoanl freedom' and--'i got to be me'


more questions to ask then:

well, just who are you, when you are smashed?
are you really someone you want to be, then, or not?
do you really WANT to stop, or do you just feel pressured by
others to stop?


if you really DO want to stop you NEED to find the KEY/keys
as to why, and tackle each door... the doors start to open and work,
then...


without 'self knowledge' though, you'll keep slipping
into whoever it is you 'think' you are, when you are drinking...
and--
remember: it is only a temporary facade as to who you could REALLY
be, if you stopped:

there is a whole new field of life, and new things to grow...
sometimes it is hard to tackle, BUT--when you REALLY KNOW WHO YOU ARE,
you can actually ENJOY doing that and you will love the success...

now, as to my ex son in law, he is happy to be free to have his
daily buzz, and his 'own self to be true to' as long as his kids love
him, and they do... they share the kids and there is no more tension in the house... the girls are older and see this:

but, it was a LOT OF PAIN for these little kids...
and it was very confusing... with all adults working together,
and talking to them, we can only hope and pray that all turns out
well for THEIR adult life...

drinking may seem to join--in party sense... but it is a seperater:
it makes walls... it divides families... later, it eventually isolates
the drinker from all sound wisdom and stablity...


one true story that i like to always share:
and it has held true up 'til today...

mr james drury shared how he met his wife...
and that he USED to drink like fish--all day, and night, and start again
next day...

he stopped drinking for her when he met her, and never drank again...
we seem them together still, all these years later...
his wife is a very wonderful lady...
he can't seem to give up smoking, he said...

but smoking is not the same 'personality disorder hider' or
'personality display-creater' that buzzes/or being loaded, are...

lots of info here from off 'my shelf' of learning/observing...
hope it can help someone, in some way...
:)

just a share, not a preach... :)



bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 2, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
It's complicated.
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 3, 2013 - 12:39am PT
"It's complicated." to stop any addiction, I'll agree in that it can be, that's for sure! But I've learned that the solution is a simpler concept to prevent, than it is to clean up, and that the addiction isn't really the problem in the first place, but the "fruit," the product, the result of roots that we chose to establish. We all have a "love" problem folks. We love ourselves more than where love is due, and because of that, we've got our focus on the wrong thing the minute we finally decide that we need help in the first place! It's a vicious cycle, getting over one addiction, only to pick up, and/or continue another. Confused yet? I know I was!
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Jan 3, 2013 - 02:18am PT
Dude, you're a good writer.
Respect.

To everyone in this thread, respect.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 3, 2013 - 02:36am PT
What Jefe said, JeebzBombz. Nice prose. Kinda descibes my experience as well. I gave AA a good whirl bt it took become completely spiritally and emotionally bereft for me to stop. And lord knows what tomorrow will bring. My track record over the last five years has not been good.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 3, 2013 - 10:29am PT
This thread actually reminds me quite a bit OF a NYC AA meeting! I will also say, I have never seen "NYC-style AA" in any other place I've been to, though I have never been to AA in any other very larger metropolitan area.

Sure we had some Bible Thumper, and crotchety "take the cotton out a yer ears and put it in yer mouth" meetings and AA'ers in the city, but for the most part, Agnostics and Atheists were as important to a groups strength as any traditional organized-religion viewpoint.

We also had the ones sharing who were not quit, but for some reason liked to be in the group(after all, we ARE birds of a feather!) and then the secret drinkers - stopping drinking and becoming part of a group, slipping but deciding not to say anything about it. Holding up a facade of sobriety but unable to stay sober. I had a sponsee once who was in that predicament. Luckily she did come clean, and man - what a surprise that was. I never would have guessed, except that she did seem to be having a rather negative attitude about life and people in general, which I though didn't seem to fit the path she had been on when she first came in(live and learn). It turned out prescription painkillers had been at the root of her stumble back into it).
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 3, 2013 - 11:06am PT
It turned out prescription painkillers had been at the root of her stumble back into it).

Not true.

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 3, 2013 - 11:13am PT
^^^
Don't be an as#@&%e, preacherboy.
pb

Sport climber
Redlands Ca
Jan 3, 2013 - 11:15am PT
climbing gets better too
dirtbag

climber
Jan 3, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
Lurker here...I salute all of you.

A lot of stuff hits home, not for me, but for someone close to me. Challenging, but maybe fruitful, times ahead--we'll see.
Pillowattack

Boulder climber
DC
Jan 3, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
Hey guys, thanks for the encouragement. Still sober and coming up on 21 months. Just got a really nice promotion at work - gonna be less work and a way more money (doesn't get much better). When I was drinking this never would have happened. I was so unreliable, selfish, and self-destructive that I would have probably been fired by now. It feels like I am an adult now at 27 which is kind of weird. Anyways, I've been going to some more meetings which has been good, I'll have to check out that mens meeting in falls church. Life is crazy these days with way more drama than I'm used to, but I'm getting through it all. Love you guys.

illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 3, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
The power to fool ourselves is pretty impressive, and who knows how many more illusions of equal strength we each hold


Remember, what I'm about to share is what continues to change my families lives, my friends lives, those that I don't know's lives, and even my own life. If there's documentation that it changes peoples lives for the Good, then it needs to be shared, whether it offends or not...get over it.

Here's what answered the question proposed by the quote above for me, and until I accepted this, the root of my "strongholds" (plural) couldn't be addressed:



"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."


"But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward."


"And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:"

"And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart."


"And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:"


"This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing."


"They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you."


"for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth;"


"Behold, I know your thoughts, and the devices which ye wrongfully imagine against me."


"Which imagine mischiefs in their heart; continually are they gathered together for war."


"An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,"


"The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined."


"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;"


"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."


"They also that seek after my life lay snares for me: and they that seek my hurt speak mischievous things, and imagine deceits all the day long."


"How long will ye imagine mischief against a man? ye shall be slain all of you: as a bowing wall shall ye be, and as a tottering fence."


"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."


"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"


etc., etc.,etc.,


"Bible thumping"...as opposed to ones own chest thumping? Herein lies the "root" of a problem!
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 3, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
^^^ Don't be an as#@&%e, preacherboy.


You lost me there Elcap...I commented that the quoted statement wasn't true.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Jan 3, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
It feels like I am an adult now at 27 which is kind of weird

Good one, but a bit of advice from someone who has been around the sun many, mnany, many times, it may be better to act like an adult but always keep your feelings of youth!

Just a thought...

Susan

edit: oh yeah....incredible progress! Wowsa...
Pillowattack

Boulder climber
DC
Jan 3, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
Good call Susan! I definitely take myself too seriously sometimes. Its easy to take any problem that pops up and make it the end of the world, but it passes like everything else. Just gonna keep doing the things I love and trusting that life will work itself out.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 3, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
Yo Pillow,
I'll have to check out that mens meeting in falls church.


Yes, absolutely. Even if you're on the other side of the river.
Unity Club has great people and schedules.
It's been a while, but as I recall there was just one or two meetings a week, in the evening, for this particular group.
But the level of sobriety in there was incredible, we're talking old timers with 30-50 years sober.
Of course you can get any kind of meeting you want there all week long, but that one really stood out for me.

Of course I always liked the n00b meetings too, because you got so many amazing stories from people that were still in the heat of the battle everyday....
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 3, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
It turned out prescription painkillers had been at the root of her stumble back into it).

Not true.

Hey bonehead, please be aware that yo are starting to engage in the very same wierd and derogatory behavior, on the very same thread, that got LEB banned from ST. Please go away. This type of poorly informed rant is not welcome here.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 3, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
Interesting thread direction, talking about meetings.

I didn't go to an AA meeting until I had 2 years of sobriety under my belt. At that time, I was in a tough spot in life, and felt like I needed more support then what I could give myself.

I had a great time in AA for quite a while - got a sponsor, got a lot of motivation, and got to help out some fellow drunks, and get helped in return.

One of the things that I learned early on, was to find out what your triggers are - the things that make you want to pick up. One of my main ones is drama - I tend to get all twisted up in drama that I don't need to be in, to the point that it starts affecting me emotionally and physically.

Over time, as I got further into AA, I started to see TONS of drama that I just didn't want to be involved with. I tried a few different clubs, but in the end I couldn't find one without all the little cliques and relationship squabbles, etc.

After 3 years in AA, and 5 years sober, I stopped going to meetings and started to use the parts of the program that I felt would be the most beneficial for me. This isn't a path I would recommend, but February will be 13 years for me, so far it has worked out OK. I hope it continues to do so.
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 3, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
Intonations? What are you talking about? I'd like to share just as everybody else is...and you're attacks, although I use to be offended by, are welcomed now, as long as I'm doing it for Christs sake. How can I win a battle unless I'm in the midst of it? Thank God!

I'm sharing an alternative reformation, Christ centered program which isn't for everybody. "Self enlightened"? You're lost bro, for I'm saved by grace, or getting what I don't deserve. I fall short every day, every stinking day, and since I still struggle with my addiction to this very day, you've obviously turned something that was said, against yourself.
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 3, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
Bob, that statement is "not true" its just not true. It has incorrect information. That's all.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 3, 2013 - 06:20pm PT
Dude. your whacked. I am christian but i do not buy your brand of preaching.
What part of abuseing prescription pain killers not being a healthy way to stay sober did you not understand........
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 3, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
Rx painkillers its NOT the "root" of the problem is what I intended. And what part of scripture are you confused about?
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 3, 2013 - 06:46pm PT
It was the "root" of the scenario I was referencing, which was that the use of the medicine gave her a buzz, and when that source was gone, she turned to her old friend, alcohol.

It is FINE if you have the mindset you referred to, but you are in a group of agnostics and aetheists among those who have any number of spiritual paths. This is not a "Sobriety by Scriptures" thread - to create animosity, here, is NOT in the interest of the whole.

Can we all just stop on this particular vignet now?
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 3, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
^^^^^^^^+50
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 3, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
People who try and force their god on other people are THE problem with much of the world. As far as scripture goes. it has been re written so many times for political purposes as well as mistakes made by scribes and intentional changes made by scribes that who even knows what it really was BINTD. Just storys passed down by a bunch of people many of whome had their own agendas and horns to toot. either you know god/christ/ spirituality in your heart or you do not. bunch of lies in a book should have nothing to do with it.....
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 3, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
I'm not posting to create animosity...I'm just sharing a program that has an 88% success rate. If you scroll back, it is clear who threw the first punch.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 3, 2013 - 07:01pm PT
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 3, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
Thank God for your encouragement Jim.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jan 3, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
aint it a shame to go fishin on a sunday!
aint it a shame.

aint it a shame to have a drink on a sunday,
aint it a shame!

[Click to View YouTube Video]
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 3, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
Amen Jim,

John 3:30-31 KJV

He must increase, but I must decrease. He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 3, 2013 - 09:16pm PT
Illusion, you already got a couple friendly warnings. Others who have started things of this nature have been banned more then once. The mods of this site take this thread very seriously. So do everyone a favor and knock it off.

Regardless of who threw the first punch, here is a direct line from your beliefs: Turn the other cheek. By continuing this you are simply lowering yourself to a level that you supposedly despise.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jan 3, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
A rewarding attitude is "moderation in all things". Especially sobriety and chastity.
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 4, 2013 - 08:45am PT
Illusion, you already got a couple friendly warnings.
unwarranted

The mods of this site take this thread very seriously.
So do I. I'm very aware of this, and am not threatened in any way.

Regardless of who threw the first punch, here is a direct line from your beliefs: Turn the other cheek.

Amen, I'm doing just that...strike away.

By continuing this you are simply lowering yourself to a level that you supposedly despise.
Not True


This is on subject and totally relevant:

http://www.reformu.com...the fastest growing, faith-based addictions program in the world with an 88% success rate at the Men's and Women's homes in Rockford Illinois. Glory to God!
Pillowattack

Boulder climber
DC
Jan 4, 2013 - 09:28am PT
One thing I like about AA, is the whole higher power of your understanding. Alcoholics are notoriously stubborn, and I am no exception. I had to figure out my own understanding through searching in my own way.

Noone likes to be preached to, it is literally the least effective way of communicating because people just stop listening. People respond to others living a good and happy life and get turned off by pontification.

If you are living that good life illusion be happy with that. Now and try to spread that to the people in your own life not convert people to your way of thinking over the internet.

illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 4, 2013 - 09:37am PT
I can do nothing...the program is changing lives by saving lives, and restoring families, to name a few. Again, my life is far from "good."

Incorrect. The third step in AA is:

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him."
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 4, 2013 - 09:44am PT
Stop arguing here. It's just not the right place.
Pillowattack

Boulder climber
DC
Jan 4, 2013 - 09:46am PT
Are you just trolling man... that last entry makes absolutely no sense. "I can do nothing" - that is some sick thinking. The only thing you should be powerless over is a 2nd drink. We get sober so we can live productive, happy lives. You sound like you are lost in the woods right now.
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 4, 2013 - 09:46am PT
No arguing here, just posting relevant help:

http://www.reformu.com
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 4, 2013 - 09:50am PT
"sick thinking", as if us addicts way of thinking didnt get us into the mess we're in? In RU we call it our "stinkin' thinkin'!
Pillowattack

Boulder climber
DC
Jan 4, 2013 - 09:51am PT
And once you do a consistent 11th step you can trust your thinking again. Read the book man
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 4, 2013 - 10:03am PT
Sorry bro, no 11th step in the Book that sets my principal standard. 88% success rate, show me a "self help" program that posts those numbers.
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 4, 2013 - 10:24am PT
"I can of mine own self do nothing:"

I say in the program, "It's not about me, for that's the very reason that got me in the mess I'm in, IT'S BEEN ALL ABOUT ME!"
Woody the Beaver

Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
Jan 4, 2013 - 11:38am PT
Uh . . . Well, I'm grateful for another day. Crusty, sardonic mofos rule! Love them meetings.
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 4, 2013 - 11:41am PT
It is FINE if you have the mindset you referred to, but you are in a group of agnostics and aetheists among those who have any number of spiritual paths. This is not a "Sobriety by Scriptures" thread -to create animosity, here, is NOT in the interest of the whole.


From: The First Edition Big Book Stories (http://www.barefootsworld.net/origbbstories.html#drbob);

THE DOCTOR'S NIGHTMARE (by Bob Smith,M.D. from Akron,OH.)

"If you think you are an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic,or have any other form of intellectual pride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book, I feel sorry for you. If you still think you are strong enough to beat the game alone,that is your affair. But if you really and truly want to quit drinking liquor for good and all, and sincerely feel that you must have some help,we know that we have an answer for you. It never fails if you go about it with one half the zeal you have been in the habit of showing when getting another drink.

Your Heavenly Father will never let you down!"
Pillowattack

Boulder climber
DC
Jan 4, 2013 - 11:52am PT
First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother's eye

He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know.
Lao Tzu

This thread is about support - let's not railroad it into a religious debate. Love and respect for everyone walking their path

happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 4, 2013 - 11:57am PT
Illusion Dweller - THIS thread is not an AA thread, or any program in particular. I would be getting the very same reaction as you have been, if I was spouting "AA is the Way!" and other such things. Proselytizing just does not work here, or in most places.

I've not heard of the program you linked, and am going to take a look. I am glad it is helping you, but it may help to keep in mind, just as the bible says 'there are many rooms in my mansion(or similar), there are, too, many paths to a sober life. There is an art to sharing your experience, strength and hope(to borrow from AA) - "My way or the high way"(literally, here!) shuts the door on your words faster than one on a traveling salesman's foot."
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Jan 4, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
delusion iller,
your mouth is like the wall of sound (google grateful dead)

i have a 6000 word per minute threshold
after which i don't hear a gawdam thing
issuing of the largest hole in your face.

mute yourself, kindly.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 4, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
A rewarding attitude is "moderation in all things". Especially sobriety and chastity.

no more destructive words have been spoken.
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 4, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
happiegrrrl....I'm sitting outside my son's school as we speak, waiting to pick him up, where I first saw this very sign, in this very spot, over five years ago:




...it changed my life. God Bless.
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 4, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
a very worthwhile thread.


Yes it is...Glory to God.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 4, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
Humility is the basis of recovery, that and trying to find a divine direction not supplied by our egos, but instead informed by a higher power. When we declare what the higher power is, and how we best follow this or that protocol or program, we have surly lost out way and are right back to trying to orchestrate the world's recovery. Such behavior is known as being on a "dry drunk," the earmarks being something other than humility and surrender. Then a drink is right around the corner for many of us . . .

Tolerance is crucial to recovery, IMO, no matter the program.

JL
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 4, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
We already know about all the faith-based programs, Gary, but thanks for playing. Sorry if most of us are not interested in your Baptist churchs' fundamentalist version of redemption. In fact, I'm guessing most of us are repulsed. As a general rule, I don't listen to fat white male fundies in ill-fitting suits who divide their time between railing against female reproductive rights, multi-culturalism, and gun-control measures:

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Your God is not our God, so please stop attempting to ram It down our throats. OH NO! HE HAD A PONYTAIL DOWN TO HIS WAIST AND HAD BEEN FAR AWAY FROM GOD!!

Ponytails, man. The root of all evil.
Pillowattack

Boulder climber
DC
Jan 4, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
There are people from every possible background that get sober, from atheists to fundamentalists. If you are sober and happy that is what matters. I know a lot of sober people and none have told me that I need to believe what they do to stay sober.

"Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don't infer or be deceived by appearances."

"Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion."

"Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good."

 The Buddha

illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 5, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
There are people from every possible background that get sober, from atheists to fundamentalists. If you are sober and happy that is what matters. I know a lot of sober people and none have told me that I need to believe what they do to stay sober.

"Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don't infer or be deceived by appearances."

"Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion."

"Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good."

The Buddha

It sounds like the Buddha didn't need anybody but himself to get through his strongholds, which I'm sure he had. God forbid.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 5, 2013 - 02:57pm PT
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 5, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
Read it Bob, come on Robert, read it...you decide who Buddha is relying on. Any addict, including myself, can tell you where their brilliant thinking got them.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 5, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
Not sure which one of your mutiple Supertopo identities I should reply to Gary. Illusiondweller? Digitsdelight? Truthdweller? Fredrick?
illusiondweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 5, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
Have another one Bob, you're doing well, I'm watching your time.
Truthdweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 5, 2013 - 09:19pm PT
How about Sobriety?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 6, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
Geez Gary, how about you not being a weird-assed multiple personality pathological liar? You've been called out on this so many times it's embarrasing.

from http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1175586&msg=1176824#msg1176824

Fredrick (aka Truthdweller/Digitsdelight/Illsiondweller/Gary) wrote:

Speaking of rating "creep"...I always called General Dynamics 5.10c and have ben back on it twice since 2007 and can't seem to repeat it! Am I that fat now or was I that much better twenty five years ago? Then again, it is now rated 5.11 which seems to explain why I'm having a difficult time on it now. I'm going to lean more on the former than the latter.


aww man, you two have lots more than that in common! ID, when did you move from NJ back to SD? Seems you both climbed at Woodson in the early eighties, moved to NJ, served in Iraq at a bit of an advanced age, and then simultaneously move back to SD! That's amazing!
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 6, 2013 - 11:55pm PT
bvb, please stop this. I've seen you do this on many threads, and you always do more harm then good. I understand your intention, but this is NOT what this thread is for.
This is not the place for you to play Internet Ranger, OK? This is a very serious topic for those of us fighting this disease, and it's managed to stay clear of the ST cesspool until now, for the most part.

The more you feel you HAVE to post, the more HE posts, and the thread gets destroyed. Walk away from this and do us all a favor.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:20am PT
That's no way to talk to an American Legend.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:57am PT
No, Vegasclimber is totally right. But if asshat goes all Apocalypto on us again I can't make any promises. He's like the crazy lunatic screaming in the middle of the meeting. Sooner or later you gotta call the cops.
Psilocyborg

climber
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:51am PT
2 years, 4 months sober and loving every minute of it.

Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 7, 2013 - 03:01am PT
bvb, thanks much. If he goes off again, maybe it would be less intrusive to start a different thread to expose the issues. If you react, he will react, etc etc as I said. Appreciate your understanding.

Psi, grats on the 2 years plus! The two year mark was kinda tough for me, that's about the time I had been sober long enough to remember some of the stupid sh#t I did when I was drinking.
T2

climber
Cardiff by the sea
Jan 7, 2013 - 09:06am PT
Nice work Psi on your 28 month mark.

I made my 8 year mark on Xmas eve, I wanted to thank everyone here at the supertopo that gave me awesome support and advice when really needed it. I was going through a rough time.
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Jan 7, 2013 - 11:17am PT
I was thinking about you, T2. Good job making it through.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
Nice work on the 8 years! Holidays are a tough time to have a sobriety date, even when things are going OK. Glad you made it through your rough patch sober. Another victory!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 7, 2013 - 02:07pm PT
I'll be psyched when I get 8 months. In the last 5 1/2 years of trying this is the farthest I've ever made it.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 7, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
Keep doing what you're doing then! One day at a time, one minute at a time, whatever needs to happen. Remember, don't pick up the first one, and you will never get drunk. Keep it simple right now, our brains like simple.

Hope you have a good support system in place, that helps a lot. Winging it isn't much fun.
Psilocyborg

climber
Jan 7, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
I thought this was interesting.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_W.

am Griffith Wilson (November 26, 1895 – January 24, 1971), also known as Bill Wilson or Bill W., was the co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA), an international mutual aid fellowship with over two million members belonging to 100,800 groups of alcoholics helping other alcoholics achieve and maintain sobriety.

In November 1934, Wilson was visited by old drinking companion Ebby Thacher. Wilson was astounded to find that Thacher had been sober for several weeks under the guidance of the evangelical Christian Oxford Group.[17] Wilson took some interest in the group, but shortly after Thacher's visit, he was again admitted to Towns Hospital to recover from a bout of drinking. This was his fourth and last stay at Towns hospital under Doctor Silkworth's care. It was while undergoing treatment with The Belladonna Cure that Wilson experienced his "Hot Flash" spiritual conversion and quit drinking.

In the 1950s Wilson used LSD in medically supervised experiments with Betty Eisner, Gerald Heard, and Aldous Huxley. With Wilson's invitation, his wife Lois, his spiritual adviser Father Ed Dowling, and Nell Wing also participated in experimentation of this drug. Later Wilson wrote to Carl Jung, praising the results and recommending it as validation of Jung's spiritual experience. (The letter was not in fact sent as Jung had died.)[30] According to Wilson, the session allowed him to re-experience a spontaneous spiritual experience he had had years before, which had enabled him to overcome his own alcoholism. Bill was enthusiastic about his experience; he felt it helped him eliminate many barriers erected by the self, or ego, that stand in the way of one's direct experience of the cosmos and of God. He thought he might have found something that could make a big difference to the lives of many who still suffered. Bill is quoted as saying: "It is a generally acknowledged fact in spiritual development that ego reduction makes the influx of God's grace possible. If, therefore, under LSD we can have a temporary reduction, so that we can better see what we are and where we are going — well, that might be of some help. The goal might become clearer. So I consider LSD to be of some value to some people, and practically no damage to anyone. It will never take the place of any of the existing means by which we can reduce the ego, and keep it reduced."[31] Wilson felt that regular usage of LSD in a carefully controlled, structured setting would be beneficial for many recovering alcoholics. However, he felt this method only should be attempted by individuals with well-developed super-egos.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jan 7, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
Two years on Dec 30th for me.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Jan 7, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
good deal Mark!

ever been to Tumwater Gorge? leavenworth area
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 7, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
BVB. if you can get past the 2 year mark it gets really easy. The longer you go the less physical symptoms you get.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 8, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
Maybe this isn't the right place to ask, but does anyone have any thoughts about Alanon?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 8, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
Alanon groups vary radically. Some are healthy, and focus on healing from whatever havoc booze has wreaked in their lives. Some, however, are composed almost entirely of incredibly bitter ex-spouses who are looking for a forum in which to vent, endlessly, year after year. Addicted to the thrill of bitterness.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 8, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
Thanks. I guess the key is to try a few and hopefully find one that is constructive?
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Jan 8, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
They are out there, dirtbag, and my wife finds her group very beneficial. I haven't personally been to an AA meeting in just over a year, but my wife continues with her alanon group almost every week.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 8, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
Thanks--thinking about trying it tonight.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 8, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
Maybe this isn't the right place to ask, but does anyone have any thoughts about Alanon?

I'll put in a good word for AlAnon!

Before I got sober, one day my mom called me. She herslef had slipped after a decent time not drinking, and didn't know what to do because she knew she had it bad, that she couldn't put it down without a rehab, and that she didn't think Medicaid would pay for a rehab....

I mentioned this to my boss at work and she said "You should look into AlAnon." She then explained it a bit(although I already knew what it was), got on the phone and got info on some meetings for that night. Because my boss frightened me a little - well, a lot, I went to the meeting rather than have to deal with her if I didn't do as she said(this is an interesting connection, which will be seen later...)


The meeting was GREAT! This sophisticated Upper East Side lady, talking about her relationship with alcoholsim, down and dirty. And it HELPED!

IMMEDIATELY I knew what I had to do.... NO, not about my mother. About the dysfunctional relationship I had with my boss!

That's a long story, but the next time my boss asked me to do this task which was completely unrelated to work, and one which she had manipulated me into doing and which I KNEW was unhealthy.... I simply said "Esta, I ca no longer do this for you." Simple as THAT!

Well...her mouth dropped. But there it was. And she never asked me to do it again. Of course, she was a bitch on wheels after that and I did get fired about two weeks later...hahah. But AlAnon WORKED! I saw - clearly - my part in the dysfunctional relationship, owned it, and stopped.

AlAnon can be a very powerful program.



On the other hand...in AA we do often refer to it as "AlAnonAndOn." (because if anyone thinks AA'ers whine and go on, they haven't been to an AlAnon meeting....)
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Jan 8, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
Way to go Mark.
Continuing to inspire on and off the rock.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 8, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
Having just spend over a month in the hospital, I can say for certain that no matter what happened, I always had my program to come back to.

JL
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Jan 8, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
John,

Glad you survived.
This thread and your posts are an important part of my program!
Thanks again to Hankster for starting this and for all who contribute.

PB
dirtbag

climber
Jan 9, 2013 - 12:14am PT
Thanks Happie.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jan 9, 2013 - 09:28am PT
I'd second that about the two year mark. That's about how long it took me to not think about it anymore. Now I never do, and have no idea how many years its been. I know for some people it never goes away. Thank God I put a stop to it before I got that addicted.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jan 9, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
Thanks,
I sort of feel bad for even posting since not drinking has been pretty much a non issue for me. I'll be having a bad day and will tell myself that I'm going to have a beer but when I drive past the grocery store I just laugh. My technique of just worrying about that first, single drink, has been good for me. I actually go days now and not even think about it.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Jan 10, 2013 - 02:40am PT
bvb - If you can get by the two year mark it gets really easy.
I tend to agree with that, in general/the more time the easier it seems to get.

But WOE, I had a close call tonight at Albertson's (grocery store). There is a bargain (hard for me to pass up bargains): Jim Beam 8.99 (750 ml.) when you buy 6 (regularly 12.84). Everything kinda hit me at once. First thing I thought was, "Hey, just a shot or two (or one whiskey & coke) after dinner each night, they would last me 6-12 months." ... Yea, sure!

It was a really close call, I was calculating the savings and was starting to drool. YIKES!!

I thought about this thread, and all the peeps I have known over the years that weren't as lucky as I that are nolonger with us (i think i told my story on this thread).

I have been sober for going on 30 years, but man, I felt the pull earlier this evening!!!

edit: if you get the Albertson's add (this weeks add) it is rght there in it; JB or Malibu Carribean Rum (i was thinking about getting 3 of each/it is gonna be a tuff week , since i live directly across the street from Albertson's).

I usually avoid that isle like the plague (licquor isle)...don't trust myself.

edit: Happie - "Congrats..." -- Thanks! And I hear ya (in regards to all those, "coming up on 90 day's"/battling the urge, etc!) my thoughts, hopes and prayers are with you, brothers & sister's!!

yea, i have had a few set backs over the years. it has been a long 30+ years. i cud easily get myself into big trouble once again. i think earlier this evening at Albertsons was a warning ( or something). not only booze, but anything else that might just happen along. i shud probably connect with something like AA or some kind of support group. thanks for the suggestion/hint Happie! :)
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 10, 2013 - 02:52am PT
Oh man - I can almost see that as one of those cartoons in the AA Grapevine magazine. "Our man" stopped in his tracks at the huge display of "Buy SIX and SAVE!" The sweat is flying off his face as he contemplates...

And then the grocery clerk comes by to restock, and says "This stuff has been flying out the door since we put it on sale, but I have to tell you, it's been tough for me, coming up on 90 days sober and restocking this display several times a day. I get off work in 10 minutes and I am heading straight to a meeting!"

"Can I come with you?" says....



Congratulations on passing up that "bargain" - and next time you go in, keep an eye out for that guy coming up on 90 days.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 10, 2013 - 11:00am PT
thanks for the suggestion/hint Happie! :)

Wasn't any suggestion of that kind - Just conjured the cartoon thing in my mind when reading your post, and after I had written it I thought"Well, I know that next time I am looking at a big liquor display and waxing poetic, some shaking-footed AA colt or filly is probably going to show up in the image to save me from myself!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 10, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
Coz, if you really Want to stop you can do it on your own. I drank pretty much every day for 30 years and managed to quit on my own. Recognize your trigger points of when you really want or need a beer and have ice cold Polar seltzer ready to go. calorie free, no sodium or any other crap but it is a fizzy cold drink in your hand that gets you past that hard moment..
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 10, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
I stopped on my own the first time too....

It had been a particularly normal night -copious amounts of alcohol imbibed in, can't recall the last few hours, but that was normal... I just woke up the next morning and said "I can't keep doing this." I told my younger brother I was quitting and he gave me -a look - and snorted and said "yeah, right."

Well, I AM a Taurus, and that was enough to bolster my quitting! And I did!

I did start up again, though, but if you had asked me up til I had about 90 days sober in AA, I would have told you I had "been quit" for 5 years.

And it WAS about 5 years before I was back at the point I was that morning when I "couldn't keep doing this." But it had actually only been ONE year between that last drink, and the next one.

I still get a chuckle out of how I was able to see it that way all that time.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 10, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
I have been totally sober since 8-25-06 no cheating ot telling myself lies. I puffed a tiny bit of herb about 3 times in that time frame. As far as I am concerned the puffs do not count because the weed is not my gig.. do not really enjoy it that much so not any kind of will power test for me..
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jan 10, 2013 - 08:08pm PT
what is the best way to stop drinking

Scott you could probably get a different answer from everone, but I'd say, if you're concerned about it, give yourself a little test. Just stop now and see if its easy or hard. If you find you have a reflex to run to the grocery store every night when you realize there's no beer in the refrigerator, then you have a habit. If it doesnt go away and every night you have the same idea of going out and getting a six pack, then you can decide whether you want to deal with it or not. No one says you have to. For my parents geneation, it was normal for everyone to drink every single night after work. I just made a decision to stop and stuck to it. I didnt have any group, and didnt particularly want to involve my friends or family or get labeled by other people. I would also not want to join a program that taught me I was helpless to cure myself and had to put the problem in God's hands. For me it was a matter of summoning the willpower, making a decision and sticking to it.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 11, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
Intervention time, later today, one on one. Could go nowhere, could end our 10 year relationship but...Fukk it.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 11, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
Take someone with you, if you can, man. Hope it works out, those are never fun.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 11, 2013 - 02:10pm PT
thanks!
Mees

climber
Jan 11, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
Great courage to you all.
If things get complicated
keep it simple
Don't take that first drink!
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 12, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
For me it was a matter of summoning the willpower, making a decision and sticking to it.



The underlying problem for many alcoholics is misdirected willpower. Drinking is only a symptom. Willpower and "making decisions" and sticking to them like a man is not an option for a true alcoholic. This is a point of great confusion for many - believing that the issue is largely a personal decision, and that defaulting into "God" is a needless crutch in which we co-opt our personal power and personal dominion.

Many people who think like this struggle mightily with the idea of seeking a power greater than themselves - even when they are free to define it in their own terms. It feels like giving up, or quitting. But this is not it. At all.

The paradoxical notion of powerlessness gets the better of most all who have never dealt with it at depth. And even to those who have, myself included, powerlessness is a VERY slippery concept.

In my experience it has nothing to do with forgoing my personal power, rather it is a wide view of how little we actually control in this life of ours. And then finding something to do about it that increases our consciousness, humanity and relevance to our fellows.

JL
Norwegian

Trad climber
Pollock Pines, California
Jan 12, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
sanity is a mystery.
it is a circle that doesn't quite close.
we intelligent beings are granted 359 degrees of liberty,
with one degree, undone.

that's my degree.
i cherish it.
i abhor it.
i scrutinize it.
i be it.

that one degree of insanity.
all life flows out of me,
enjoying venturi effects
with increased velocity and decreased cross section
i aint beautiful,
i aint grand,
i aint able to stand.

im sorry that i, by
choice must focus my energies on
the one degree that unravels me,
but this,
must be.
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Jan 12, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
Largo for the win.

Most people's understanding of what AA is is so inaccurate they end up drinking themselves into a miserable grave instead of letting go of what they think they know.

And some people just decide they've had enough and stop. Props to all groups. The end goal is to not be a slave to alcohol any longer.
AZ-OW

Trad climber
Granite Mountain Wilderness
Jan 12, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
I just got my two month chip for the third time on Jan 10th. Seeing this thread and hearing from so many I respect has been a huge help during the insanity of, yet again, new recovery. Thanks to all of you carrying the message and here is to all that still suffer.
Much love,
Chris
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 12, 2013 - 05:42pm PT
At one time I had enough 30 days chips to encirle the planet.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jan 12, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
John, I just run away from people trying to covert me to their religion, even a really nebulous one that lets you define a higher power anyway you want, so with all respect that approach is a massive turn off. Athiests are not people who haven't spent time thinking about religion or the meaning of life, they just came to different conclusions, and their beliefs are just as much a part of their identities as others.

Another controversial remark I would like to make, is that marijuana has nothing whatsoever to do with alcohol, and using it should not make you return to drinking. In fact I think its a reasonable substitute for people trying to quit booze.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 12, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
If you quit drinking booze and switch to another drug its one step ahead 2 steps back. if you are already a stoner and you quit drinking but keep smoking pot you have made a huge step in the right direction but you are still only half way there.....
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 13, 2013 - 01:16am PT
Talking about the "pros and cons" of the "marijuana maintenance program" could fill a whole new thread. I don't smoke, but I don't knock those that do.

One thing to remember as well, is that when AA was founded, US society was much different then it is now. Religion was a much larger force then in everyday life, so it's only natural that the program would have been focused on that then.

It's up to each of us to determine what works. At the base of it, the decision to stop drinking and stay stopped has to happen within the person. Anything beyond that is simply a means to an end.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 14, 2013 - 06:48am PT
Actually it is really fckin simple. If you quit one drug and switch to annother there is no progress. ZERO, Zilch, Nada..

If you already do a bunch of drugs and you quit one of them you have made some progress but you ain't there yet.
slodog

Trad climber
ontario canada
Jan 14, 2013 - 10:35am PT
my 2 cents-12.5 years sober one day at a time,AA taught me how to live without drugs or alcohol.will power never worked for me as it was my will to drink.i still cant walk on water but my life is 100x better than it was-and i'd surely be dead without AA.i still cant climb worth sh#t-but i'm living life,going places and doing things.i feel bad when i hear of and meet people who cant accept their powerlessness,i waisted alot of life trying to will myself into better living only to find myself at the same place again and again with the four horsemen of despair at my side.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 14, 2013 - 10:55am PT
Actually it is really fckin simple. If you quit one drug and switch to annother there is no progress. ZERO, Zilch, Nada..


What about the people who begin acting out sexually in sobriety? There is a reason (in AA) they say "The men with the men, the women with the women" and it's not to foster same-sex intimate partnerships.... There was another slogan I heard, always from guys ironically, and always when they didn't know a woman was listening - "get them on their back before they're on their feet."

I remember finding out one of the playboy types had scooped up my first sponsee within a week of her arrival. He told her to "keep it a secret because the women would look down on her for not following the suggestions." He made it seem like she would be ostricized and told she wouldn't stay sober if she didn't follow the suggestions that some AA'ers were so strict they were practically fundamentalists. He had a history of this behavior which only came out after my sponsee told me what was going on, and I went to some of the men in the group about it. A lot of "this type" is kept hush-hush in the rooms. THAT is why The men with the men, the women with the women.

As for pot - I know beyond the shadow of a doubt, that it would take away my sobriety. NOT that I would drink due to it, but - I smoked pot all day, every day, from the age of 14 to 21. The only time I was not stoned was if there was no pot to be had, and that was fairly infrequently. On those days, I could absolutely feel crankiness and discontent. Even THEN I knew that, at least for me, Marijuana had an addictive component. It may have been mental, but it was there.

I truly got a second chance at life when I got sober. My soul had been shattered at an extremely early age - way before I ever had a drink or drug. I lived within myself, in a shell, It was very comfortable actually. I still have parts of me that are stuck inside, and may be I will never be free. It is not comfortable, any more. I try to work through, and am saddened at even writing that, but just saying "I won't be limited by that anymore" isn't the key that opens the door.

But for me - to pick up a smoke of pot, one celebratory toast at a party, one one night stand with someone I have no interest in other than getting laid, and I give up the gift of life that I found at the grand old age of 36. Half my life, most likely, spent in fear and hiding, Risk going back? No thank you!

But I ALSO believe that EACH person should be allowed to define sobriety for themselves. And I can define who I want to associate with. I will rope up with people who smoke, and drink - even during climbs! I would date a guy who smoked pot - occasionally, or drinks, occasionally, but my eyes would be open. One person's "occasionally" might be my "oh, my frigging god, you can't function without it." And I would NOT sponsor a woman who was smoking pot, or actively acting out with sex, food, stealing or what have you. I even told one I couldn't sponsor her because she was a drama addict(and yes, she WAS!).
dirtbag

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:38am PT
The last few weeks have been truly eye-opening for me. I have learned so much. I'm finding Al-Anon to be a huge help.

Now if only the addict in my life could see some of the things I'm seeing...
slodog

Trad climber
ontario canada
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:47am PT
no one in aa can tell anyone what to think or do about anything-although many may try to push their will on you.remember these are rooms full of people learning howw to live-ie-they are human.keep an open mind-take what you find useful and leave the rest.going to aa is not joining a cult with set "rules" of conduct,it is simply somewhere where people who are alcoholic are helping each other stay sober,one of those ways to stay sober is by helping others stay sober[the 12th step].I was very put off early on by those that would either imply or directly declare what I"must do""must beleive etc."but thats not how it works.the steps are suggestions-you are not required to do anything.if you are alcoholic-in aa you'll find other alcoholics who are trying to stay sober.do yourself a favour-keep an open mind and read the bigbook.you never know,it might save your life.it did mine.
eventually I beleive,for the alcoholic it comes down to this-die,go insane,go to prison or go to AA.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:54am PT
Dirtbag- Glad you found some help via Al-Anon. Many AA'ers do that program too, after they have gotten steady with sobriety. Like I said, it was very helpful for me in dealing with that dysfunctional work relationship I had. And it is useful for me nearly every day, including here on Supertopo!

Keeping the focus on myself- what a powerful concept!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
At one time I had enough 30 days chips to encirle the planet.


At one time I watched a stunningly beautiful and quiet woman collect a 24hr "desire" chip so many times I lost count.

I wanted to say the right thing, but I couldn't.

She kept coming back though.

I've often wondered what became of her.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
John, I just run away from people trying to covert me to their religion, even a really nebulous one that lets you define a higher power anyway you want, so with all respect that approach is a massive turn off. Athiests are not people who haven't spent time thinking about religion or the meaning of life, they just came to different conclusions, and their beliefs are just as much a part of their identities as others.


There are plenty of atheists in AA. The question is: What are you holding onto which you feel people are trying to "convert" you away from? What part of you needs an adversary to push off of.

AA is not for everyone, but it is especially for those like me who need to "quite fighting anything and anybody." There's too much ritiousness, blind willpower, and aggression hooked up to this, the Royal Road to the Next Drink.

JL
Woody the Beaver

Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
Jan 16, 2013 - 03:39pm PT
+1 for what JL says. I'm a totally secular guy, and I never figured people in AA were trying to convert me to some religion or other. I was, and still am, grateful to the meetings for the chance for me to STFU for a bit and listen to some wise, funny and somewhat dinged-up people talk about what their experience was like. When I went in, I didn't feel like my way of doing things was working all that well, so why not listen? I heard a lot of neat stuff. That was 10+ years ago. I still don't climb gud.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
I just keep it simple. My higher power has morphed over the years. It's easy now. I don't try to define. I just live. Let others have opinions and let them spin. I am more myself than I have ever been and more at peace with all others. Even my x-wife.

I like the Beatles with the refrain: Let it be

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
So today is Day 1. it's time. the cost is just too high and there are things (my sanity, peace of mind and emotional balance) I desperatly want to maintain. I cannot live a graceful and loving life the way I've been. I hurt other people that I care about and this makes me deeply sad.

I'm grateful for this thread. thanks for letting me share.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
Right on.
Leggs

Sport climber
Home away from Home
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
Support to you, Michelle. I've been there... quitting has done wonders to my Life.

Allen Carr has a great book on the subject if you need additional support...
"Allen Carr's Easy Way to Control Alcohol"



~peace, Leggs
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
Good on you Michelle. That was about as succinct and well expressed as it gets. You've good your eyes wide open! The best of everything for you!
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
thanks folks. I'm struggling right now with mindfully and objectively looking at myself and how my behaviour. accepting the ugly parts of me is just no fun. I hurt myself and people that care about me way too many times and like I said, the cost is just not worth it. I've been sort of cruising along and living an unauthentic life. I want to be a shining, loving light that the people around me get nourished from but I'm afraid of being that person. one thing in my favor is that I am stubborn as hell.

on the God topic. I just don't know. I've been casting my pain out to something out there, seeking guidance. no burning buahes but its good mindfullness practice.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
Way to go Michelle. We all had the speed wobble at first but they don't last forever - easy to say, hard to believe if you're just hanging on.

Per the higher power thing - an imagined metaphorical crutch is just one way to configure it. The mistake is in believing that God MUST be this or nothing else. Most of the people I know who seem to radiate the charmed connection with and apparently are hard wired into that most nebulous higher power vibe cannot quantify or explain it and insist the trying to do so is just another adventure in spinning in the toilet. The trick, I believe, is to get that power to work in your favor, or put differently, to somehow align ourself with that power, which is a behavioral, not a cognitive process. Remember the motto: Knowledge availed us nothing. Not something, but nothing at all. It's very counterintuitive to a mind spinner like me.

But I've seen miracles . . .

Again, hang in there Michelle. You have all of us at your back - of that you may be sure.

JL
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:48pm PT
mostly I approach things in a Zen sort of way. I'm a strong advocate of personal responsibility and that I am totally responsible for the choices I make. sometimes, like now, the image in the mirror is ugly. avoidance only makes it worse. In a way, I feel sort of free and awake. I've been snoozing at the wheel. I hope that someday someone may find my story as usefull as the stories of others have helped me.

I've been around on ST for a while and while I like to make fun of it, I've met some awesome people and made alot of e-friend that are valuable. its nice not to be alone :)
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:08am PT
Good for you, Michelle. Glad to hear that you're taking this step. If you need any support or need to talk, please send me a message. We are all here to help each other.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:41am PT
Michelle sending good vibes your way. That personal inventory part can be hard to handle. Just get it done and move on. It really is worth the effort. I just love living in my own skin. Even when I am in pain.

I don't get down on myself for stupid stuff. I just say I will learn to do it better. I really work on the self talk stuff and don't let myself say things to me that I would punch someone else in the mouth if they said it to me.
Try to be good to yourself through the tough parts.

It is always good to have friends and peers to help with the perspective part of getting sober. It helps also to have friends that will call you on crap too.

It really comes down to balance and patience.

Just letting you know there is another someone out there that cares.

All the best

Plaid
Gilroy

Social climber
Boulderado
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:07am PT
Best wishes for finding what you need, Michelle. I come here often for strength and counsel in the daily struggles we all face. Most helpful. Though a life of sobriety is not my expectation, I am 3 months now without intoxicants. I'll be back to check in but without a chip in my pocket. You guys and gals are my program.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
"Work your own program. That's some of the best advice I've heard lately."

That's all we can ever do IMO.

Our tendency to work someone else's program (and the insanity and grief that causes) is why Alanon was created. That's an exceedingly slippery but effective program if you can ever get hold of it.

The greatest advice I ever got in Alanon was from an old timer. I was complaining about not knowing what to do with an impossible significant other. He said, "Leave her alone." In other words: Let her work her own program. Or not. Anything else is playing God, and that doesn't work for sh#t.

Leaving people alone, to wrangle things their own way, but with mutual support, is the essence of recovery IME. The only thing I can say for sure about an alcoholic is that they should never take a drink. Beyond that is truly beyond me, and is none of my business.

JL
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
Jebus and John, thanks for that reminder. It's a really good point to bring up.

I also had a problem with this earlier in my recovery, and found out that all it does is add to the exact type of drama that I have to avoid to stay sober. I have a hard enough time working with my own problems to try and "fix" someone else. All I can do is be there and try to help if they ask.

My sponsor told me frequently that I need to keep my side of the street clean, and let others worry about their side.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
^^^Words never been better said. I am done babysitting drunks and willing them sober. I am there with support and love. If advice is asked I GIVE IT. BUT MOSTLY JUST MIND MY OWN BUSINESS. Sometimes it is difficult.
I don't have to be right all the time.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 17, 2013 - 03:11pm PT
I'll drink(a glass of juice) to that, Largo.

To understand where another ends and I begin, and to stay on my side of that fence. Easier said than done, but incredibly interesting to do my best to try. Nonetheless, I find drama toxic to my self, and cannot tolerate much of it. I tend to keep a distance from people I find tick that tock on my clock.


Michelle - Best of luck to you, and glad to see you were in the thread!
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 17, 2013 - 03:39pm PT
Day 2 - this sucks balls. I forgot how much fun this is.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jan 17, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Jan 17, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
Yeah Michelle....sucking balls may be bad but sucking the chrome off a trailer hitch is worse...hang in there!

Susan
notapplicable

Trad climber
richmond, VA
Jan 17, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
I find this thread very interesting. I am at this point, I suppose, off the wagon. At least technically. Between the ages of 15 and 24ish I would eat, drink, smoke and snort anything you put in front of me. Loved it all and I was no weekend warrior. All day everyday was my motto. Eventually it started making me feel worse than it did good. It was never a psychological thing or how it effected my life. It was purely physiological. It just didn't feel good to get f*#ked up most of the time. So I stopped. No meetings or anything, just stopped. Missed smoking pot some but never the rest.

8 years later I decided to get drunk over Thanksgiving and it felt good. I've pretty much been hammered since. Pharma and booze mostly but we'll see what else is out there. Most of the old connections are gone but drugs are a great social conduit. Not sure how long it lasts this time round. It's a fun hobby so I don't have plans one way or the other.

It's just interesting how and why different people put the poison down and why they pick it up again. Good luck folks - whichever side of the slope you're on!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 18, 2013 - 08:03pm PT
Thank you. notaplicable. it's posts like your that help us stay sober and re assure us that we are on a a good path..
Norwegian

Trad climber
Pollock Pines, California
Jan 18, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
go n.a.
go until you threshold,
then go a little further.

go well beyond where the cowards cave and criticize.

beyonds that beg of you to crawl back towards
two livings.

nothing wrong with stimulating the warrior within,
in this absurd fight for a beating heart.

stay freaky,
run a marathon in shoes untied.

life is a fluid that freezes now
and thaws then.

get gills.
they swerve us well.

i hate the preachers on the path of
some self-prescribed holiness.




tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 18, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
The weege is also a good reminder as to why i quit drinking. i still get pleanty freaky just do it without poisioning my soul....

Looking down while soloing....soloing nekid.. Ice baby ICE:)
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 18, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
Took me 5 1/2 years to stop taking the ex's inventory. My first step toward actually getting my life back.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 18, 2013 - 09:00pm PT
Between the ages of 15 and 24ish I would eat, drink, smoke and snort anything you put in front of me

For me this was true from 13 to 54. Literally. All of the days. I used to snort coke at my desk when I worked for the navy, get hammered during lunch when I was running parks. And if you didn't put it in front of me, by God I'd go find it. I do not recommend this.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 18, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
Interestingly I quit doing most of the drugs in my teens. did some coke in the eightys but never as a habbit. Smoked some pot in the mid nintys but again not a habbit just ocasional recreation. an 8th of an ounce of good weed would last me about a year or so. Beer and whisky on the other hand had a short life expectancy in my presence right up untill 2006..
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 18, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
I had a program friend over here today and was reflecting on my last few months of using, when I'd wake up three or four times in the night and would have to take a stiff one to fall back asleep and - I thank my lucky stars for sobriety. Drunkalogues are not my favorites but sometimes it is instructive to remember the dark nights.

JL
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jan 19, 2013 - 10:02am PT
The blackouts were the scariest. I never knew where I would end up. It was just like adventure but frightening. I don't miss that part. In fact I don't miss much of the insanity.

It was really quit or die. I chose life. And what a life it has been.
I stayed alive long enough to learn to climb and meet the soul mate I thought I would never have. She is a rock climbin babe. I am a blessed man.

Norwegian

Trad climber
Pollock Pines, California
Jan 19, 2013 - 11:15am PT
sweet plaidman,
you were post 1096
on the sobriety thread.

a special # among us freaks.
im glad to hear of anyone
with some wellness in their heart.
joe boy

Trad climber
california
Jan 19, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
I don't usually post up, but getting sober 13 years ago literally saved my life. Like Largo, it took several stiff ones to get me back to sleep at night. swallowing vomit and ending up in coma after going septic was not quite my bottom. Fell into a couple more until I found recovery.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 19, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
Speaking of using Al-Anon....

Last night I saw I had a phone message from one of my brothers. He'd called at 6pm my time - 8pm his. He was drunk, and began demanding me to call him back. "Call me back. Do you hear me? DO. YOU. HEAR. ME? CALL. ME. BACK. It's nearing the end of civilization, I ain't got much time...."


No, I did not call my brother back last night. I waited until this morning, when at least he had a chance of being sober.

My brother has brain damage. Whether it is directly from alcohol usage or from the head injuries he suffered when he ran a truck into a tree while drunk, I do not know. He has a dent the size of a quarter in his skull, and when it is raining, even the slightest bit, he likes to play a parlor trick where he tilts his head to collect the rain, and then tips it out.


So, I called. And when he didn't say much I said "well, I am calling in response to your demand I do so last night. What's going on?"

He said "I was wondering what your reaction would be. Well, what's your reaction?"

Not sure what to say, my pause was luckily long enough that he must have forgotten he'd asked a question, and began his ramblings of how difficult and painful his life is. I imagine it is painful, being that one of his calfs looks more like hamburger under skin, from when he accidentally shot himself with a sawed-off shotgun(shining deer in upstate Wisconsin, along with my other brother - 200 miles from the nearest hospital.)

Oh yes, talking with Al is always an experience.

Today I learned that my mother's family has it's fortune buried beneath Fort Ticonderoga, for example. And that he stupidly told an IRS person about the money and then not two days had gone by when the US government handed 45 million dollars to each and every state... He did the math, and said "Where do YOU think the government can come up with 2.5 billion dollars?"

I listened, and when the next pause came, I asked him how he felt about the potential new gun laws. I did this because he had said "I'm not as delusional as everyone thinks," and I didn't want to go there. Instead I gave him a topic which I knew he would have an opinion on.(Cold dead hands, gun grab, can make a gun with the materials in the basement)...


And when we hung up 15 minutes later, I let it go. There is really not much I can do for my brother.

He called me back just now, because he had remembered something and wanted to tell me. He apologized for waking me up. I have no idea why he thought he was waking me....


There is no turning back for my brother. He's passed the point of return, even if he never takes another drink so long as he lives. My family is lucky because he seems to find people willing to have him as a room mate - I guess his share of the rent, coming from disability, is attractive to them. But I do wonder when the time will come that my brothers and sisters and I will need to sit down and decide what is to become of him.

Though my life never took the turns that his has, how do I really know that my fate might not have been the same had I kept drinking?

I don't. There but for the grace, go I.

I love you, brother Al, and I am grateful I am not walking in your shoes.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 19, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
The greatest advice I ever got in Alanon was from an old timer. I was complaining about not knowing what to do with an impossible significant other. He said, "Leave her alone." In other words: Let her work her own program. Or not. Anything else is playing God, and that doesn't work for sh#t.


I am learning that. It's a hard, hard truth. But I am going to try not to nag, scare, pester, or rub her nose in it.
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 23, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
I'm really struggling today. I'm acting like a crazy bitch, letting people hurt me when otherwise I wouldn't I'm confused. not to mention lashing out at people that don't need it. wtf. thats all I got right now.

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
If you need to yell at someone Michelle, I'm here for you! jk. I know how you feel, wait a bit it'll pass. How about a bubble bath, some chocolate cake, and a good movie?
hippielogger

climber
Townsend,Mt
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
Yeah not letting people get to you can be a struggle. I've been struggling with that myself lately and I've been sober years. Just remember that it will pass and clarity is within your grasp.
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
thanks bob. I may hit you up on that. I don't want overly vent about crap here though. it doesn't help I was not successful staying sober. I'll just keep on trying.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
Yup - keep trying. That is the key.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 1, 2013 - 07:02pm PT


Someone posted this on their FB page. Cute and funny, and so glad I don't come up with cute and funny things to deflect the fact that I am/was a lush.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Feb 1, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
I can imagine that sometimes Supertopo is not conducive to staying sober.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 1, 2013 - 08:04pm PT
Or it can show you how wonderful it is to BE sober, knowing full well that there are plenty out there still sick and suffering.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 1, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
Well, no progress with my sweetie and our relationship is deteriorating. She claims to have quite drinking but I dunno, quitting, assuming she has actually done that, is as I have learned only the first layer of a very complicated onion. And still, she defects anger at me over things that frankly, I did not do wrong. I guess the term is "dry drunk"? (again, assuming she is dry) It beats talking about her issues, I suppose.

Alanon helps.

happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 4, 2013 - 08:08pm PT
God,

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
The courage to change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference





I don't need a drink. I don't even WANT a drink. I am SO grateful beyond GRATEFUL that my mind is no longer clouded by the smoke and mirrors of drugs and booze. That I can see clearly now, the rain is gone.....


When I am feeling sick and tired of the baloney that is in my life at a moment in time, I sigh and, remembering that old bath oil commercial, say "Calgon - take me away!"


But just for today, it's a little different....

Al-Anon...take me away!
dirtbag

climber
Feb 18, 2013 - 01:21am PT
Feeling a bit mopey.

I silently said the serenity prayer before a counseling session with her on Friday.

She said sorry to me then ended it.

The prayer helped me.

I think of the things we could have had together. I thought we could have had it all.

In truth, it could never have been. The disease made sure it could never be.

I need to accept that, let go, and move on.

Alcoholism can be cruel.

McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Feb 18, 2013 - 01:30am PT
I thought about having a beer earlier and then forgot about it. I enjoyed the thought though.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Feb 18, 2013 - 01:54am PT
Still in the life. Living is so good. I was with my dad today. He has 9 more years than I sober. We are better for having quit before it took us out. Today was a gift to be there for him when he needed me. He is almost 80 and moving once again. New house for him and so I wanted to be there to make sure the transition went smooth.

Living sober is more a habit now. Thankful for every day. Even to feel pain is OK. It all passes. Even the good stuff. I am able to live in the ebb and flow of life.

For anyone struggling... Hang in there... It gets different... then it gets better ... Then we are able to put life into perspective ... It's all a gift ... share the good and the bad and forget about the labels. What I used to think was bad and what I thought was good has morphed over the years. I am in a good space now.... that could change. Just grateful RIGHT NOW!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 18, 2013 - 10:11am PT
Dirtbag - I am so very sorry to read of your pain. F*#king alcohol.... While for sure it doesn't ruin the lives of everyone who touches it, the ruin it causes in enough lives is more than devastating.





I have "thought" about having a drink a few times in the past week. Not serious really, but there had been several events which were triggering emotional points.

I don't think about having one(that would be ONE bottle of wine, ONE HALF dozen beers or harder drinks on the ONE day which would be but the first in many, of course), but it always sends a chill when it does happen. It is such a fine spider web line which divides my life between sober and over....because I do know that if I pick up, the game is over. When I accepted sobriety I made a deal, and it was a 'til death do us part' commitment.



But looking at those things which caused me so much pain today is so miniscule. I wish I could mean that in an "oh, yeah, I realized they were meaningless" way, but that is not the case. Those things were very real and damaging to my emotional well-being. It's just that in comparison to what is going on now, they were just sort of the early sprinklings on a"when it rains, it pours" segment of my life.

I am very frightened right now, because the deal I had with my apartment in NYC is going to end, and my intentions are to turn the place back over to the landlord. The sublettor who has been there for 2.5 years has given notice, and I just don't have the stomach to go again with a new person, because it is not a legal sublet.

Sure - if I didn't care about the lives of others, I could easily rent to somebody....

I am glad I care about the lives of others, even those of whom are just shadows in the imagination. Those shadows DO represent real people. Sobriety has given me that ability to make the connection between my actions and those of people whom I would meet in the future.


God, grant me the serenity....



Today I am going climbing and will try to keep my mind off this problem. It won't hurt to "do nothing" about this problem today.





SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Feb 18, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
Man you guys are tough! I am IMPRESSED!
All those "couldas, wouldas, and shouldas" can be awful downers.

Stay strong,


Susan
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
Having a very tough time with the worst fears for my future I have ever encountered going on.

I don't WANT a drink, but I do really wish there was some way to avoid dealing with my life right now.

The other day I was at the Valerjo in JT and happened to see the wine bottles. First, it was a little six-pack of single drink ones and I thought "Isn't that cute. I wonder who buys that sort of thing."

Then I noticed the bigger bottles and was looking at the labels. I remembered that, because I was clueless about wine, I used to choose a bottle based on the label(hey, I never got a bad bottle!). THis was all as I waited for someone, and I really felt like I was just passing the time, looking at scenery as I might do in any circumstance while I waited.

Then, I heard a little voice inside say "Buy one." It was almost more like a command.

Luckily, I do seem to have gotten some kind of stubborn version of sobriety that knows the truth. That to "buy one" really means, one today, and then tomorrow, and then again, and again and again. But I cannot guarantee that stubborness is something I can count on.

I know drunkeness will not help. Even as I think things can't really get worse than they are right now(though of course they could), to slip back into drinking might enable me to avoid taking responsibility for events I must manage in the next few weeks, but at what cost?



I am so scared, and so tired.
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Feb 23, 2013 - 12:03am PT
ahh happy,
lay down and let it run you over.
then get up and shake it off,
and go for a hike.
Gilroy

Social climber
Bolderado
Feb 23, 2013 - 12:16am PT
what weeg said.

when you return from the beleaguered distance
pray the van starts
look off toward the gem of tomorrow
and breath deep of that strong woman stuff

get on with it
Michelle

Social climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Feb 23, 2013 - 12:18am PT
Ya, I just don't want to stop right now.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Feb 23, 2013 - 12:22am PT
Oh Happie, hang in there, Teddie needs you straight and sober.....
Hugs

And Michele, a little cryptic there, but, be as tough as you can....the morning will be soon. Greet it with resolve...


Susan
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 23, 2013 - 12:32am PT
Thank God for Teddy, true that.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Mar 2, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
Hoping that you found strength to deal with life's challenges without adding to them by drinking. Wish I had something inspirational that could lift your spirits or some wisdom that could mitigate your problems. Know that people are rooting for you and will extend their hands to you.
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Mar 2, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
Nice work, Bomz!

32 months yesterday, and it keeps getting better every day.



happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 2, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
Congratulations on the sober days Edge and Jebus.

I made it through Part I of my problem, which was notifying the landlord that I was going to vacate the apartment(and break lease in process). They are being very good about the whole thing.

My sisters are doing me a favor beyond anything I ever anticipated, expected or deserved, and going to NYC from Wisconsin and Lower Michigan to clean out my place - a large studio apartment filled with furniture, personal effects and antiques.

Part II - how I will provide an income for myself, very quickly, that will sustain me - is still up in the air. As is Part III - whether I will be offered the caretaker opportunity/cabin at the Gunks this season, meaning where I will be living.

But, I don't want to drink....

The last few days a friend from NY has been in Joshua Tree, and I have been in the park and climbing. I have climbed VERY little this last year, for a couple of reasons, but one being that I was focusing hard on my businesses, trying to grow them. It felt very good to "be a climber" again today, even if I flailed absurdly on the two routes I tired(PewWee's Piton" and "Chalk Up Another One, or something like that).

RJNelson

climber
A few different places
Mar 2, 2013 - 11:34pm PT
Hank,

Congrats on your sobriety. I have struggled with drugs my whole adult life. Never had more than a month or two sober until 3 years ago I decided that enough is enough. The law became a problem, lack of cash, no more support from family, and lots of other sh#t. I did it thru a 30 day rehab stay, and I've been going to Narcotics Anonymous regularly. It's hard, but definetly gets easier the more time you get. I believe that without a doubt, the 12 steps have made me the person I am today.

On a side note, I'm from CO and you should check out Phoenixnultisport.org . They provide free outdoor activities for people in recovery from drugs and alcohol. As a well established climber like yourself, it may not seem appealing, but there is a very hardcore group of guys that climb real hard that belong to the group. It's nice because its a crowd that is totally sober. I've climbed several technical alpine routes(longs, ellingwood etc.) along with many multiputch ice routes(Ames, skylight etc.) in CO and WY, just to give you an idea of the caliber of some climbers. Check em out. I'm in Cali at the moment prepping for El Cap or I'd offer to show you around.

It's nice to see that many people in this community struggle with these problems, as many people in this community drink/drug recreationally, which I have no problem with, other than my personal problem. One day at a time has given me 3 years of a life I only could have dreamed of while I was using.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Mar 3, 2013 - 01:06am PT
RJ, thanks a lot for sharing your story and the group information.

I made 13 years on February 14th. Life is so good for me right now, I still have trouble believing it sometimes. It's nice to be living the "promises" that I was told of early in my sobriety, that I would get my life back. Thankful I got the chance to be here today.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Mar 3, 2013 - 02:27am PT
happiegrrrl both Peewee's Piton and Chalk Up Another One are 5.10a

From what I hear the rating's down that way are stiff. Good on ya for gettin' out there.

Plaid
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2013 - 03:15am PT
Coming up on 5 months. Feels good.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 3, 2013 - 08:06am PT
Climbed the most serious and dangerous climb that i have done at least since 2009 yesterday. The comedown from that adventure would have been prime time for a rageing drunken binge. I cruised through it with no problems.. had a Fish sammich w fries and about a half gallon of water...
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 3, 2013 - 11:35am PT
Good to see you folks maintaining. Still sober, and it's time to go meet my partners and clip some bolts. Hang in there.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Mar 3, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
Coming up on 5 months. Feels good.

bvb Right on! Hold on to your ass you are in for a hell uva ride.

The up and downs have been wild for me. All told it has been good.

If I hadn't quit I would have missed my kids, by not living long enough to have fathered them. The experiences in the mountains would never have happened. I would have never met my second wife. I suffered the first wife sober.

Now God only knows what's next..... like I said it is one hell uva ride. Doing it sober I get to really be there.

Plaid
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Mar 3, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
We only have a daily reprieve.

That's a hard one to remember. But key.

JL
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Mar 3, 2013 - 02:06pm PT
We only have a daily reprieve.

I cherish it daily. Got to remind myself to be grateful. Not really to hard to do.

Plaid
Pillowattack

Boulder climber
DC
Mar 5, 2013 - 10:25am PT
2 years on April 11th. Life is good :)
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 5, 2013 - 11:06am PT
I'm feeling good today. Working hard to change the course of my life - with still no clue what that even means - but it's amazing how much small things in the way of taking care of myself help so greatly.

This evening I am heading to the park to camp/climb with a friend in from NY for a few days. I hear the "voices" telling me I should be busting my ass looking for a job - any job - instead of...playing. I know those voices don't really know what they are talking about, when it comes to my ability to stay sober.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Mar 7, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
I am working the steps of another program and it is changing my life.
damo62

Social climber
Brisbane
Mar 7, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
S.leeper, do tell.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Mar 7, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
rather not..

let's just say I wish I had worked the steps years ago.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 8, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
Yes, those steps are very powerful, and it is my belief they can be applied to nearly any life situation. I can even imagine that if Palestinians and Israelis who had come to understand the insanity of their dynamic and wanted the madness to stop applied the Steps to their situation, they would find relief of almost miraculous proportion.


Me - I'm sober today and happy to be so.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Mar 8, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
working on my 3rd day of sobriety, yup, it's like that.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Mar 12, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
Gonna quit
the sauce.
Day 1 for me
and feeling
lousy.
This thread is
helping.
My second
attempt at
sobriety .
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 12, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
It seems to get easier. The first days and weeks were kind of rough for me, and once the sugar cravings settled down it got much easier. Hang in there, DKnow.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 12, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
Here's one of my favorite songs on the subject for ya'll. Best wishes.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 12, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
Good luck,d-know!

Feel that lousy feeling and burn it into your brain, so that in the future if that booze taps you on the shoulder, you remember exactly why you parted ways. May the miracle of sobriety begin showing itself to you in abundance!

John M

climber
Mar 12, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
It took me three tries to make it stick.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Mar 12, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
keep coming back because it works if you work it, and you're worth it!
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Mar 12, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
Thank you for the
encouraging words.

I've played the
booze game
long enough
now to realize
I cannot win.

Love and respect.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Mar 12, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
You can do it D know, there is alot of great support here and out there too.
hankw

Social climber
Camino, CA
Mar 12, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
This is probably the best thread I have ever read on any outdoor forum!
Grateful to be going on four years here but I also have relapsed in the past after having some time. Best not to be too hard on oneself , get up, dust yourself off and carry on
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 12, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
It does get easier!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 12, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
Yes, I have come to this thread time after time when there something affecting my emotional sobriety. And often enough, the thread was bumped by someone else just at the time I needed it.

I'm very tired today. The last few weeks have been very difficult, because for me, it's like my body has a battery like a car. I wore that battery down over the years and it takes an extremely small amount of emotional upset to completely take up whatever charge I have going.

For me, it is really imperative that I avoid stress in the forms that take me down, and recently, there has been no avoiding it. But so long as I don't pick up that first drink, I have a chance to move through and go forward.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Mar 13, 2013 - 01:00am PT
d-know hang in there man. The best is yet to come. Patience is difficult but it does pay dividends. One day at a time is not just a cliche.

Just take life as it comes and most of the most difficult things will pass. I have had some of the best life experiences sober and I have had some pain. But it is all worth it and the light at the end of the tunnel ain't a train. All the best to ya

Plaid
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 13, 2013 - 02:29am PT
This is probably the best thread I have ever read on any outdoor forum!

Agreed! This is a five-star thread for sure, expecially for us climbing junkies who are having difficulty making the never-before-contempated transition from warming up on hard routes to projecting old 5.10's, but dude...you shoulda been here for the "Boobs" thread! w00t w00t! Kept us all far too mesemerized by the exquisite grace and otherworldly beauty of the female form, to leave us any room in our pathetic old worn-down threadbare noggins fer stinkin' thinkin' n' drinking!
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Mar 13, 2013 - 10:44am PT
Damn, yesterday was
rough. Minor w/drawl
symptoms and when it
got bad I kept coming
back to this thread and
will continue to do so
as I believe that I have
a kick arse support
in all of you.

Still got a long road to
travel but finally put the
rubber to the pavement
and that feels good.
Sincerely, thanks
to all.

Love and respect.
hankw

Mountain climber
Camino, CA
Mar 13, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
you shoulda been here for the "Boobs" thread!

Sorry I missed that :)
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Mar 13, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
d-know hang it there man. Feel your pain. Pullin' for ya. Good vibes being sent.

What'cha doing for local support?

Plaid
Michelle

Social climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Mar 13, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
making some major changes. been consuming waaaay too much. walked away from some unhealthy situations. having surgery in May and I'm considering a clinical detox on a ward for a week. thoughts on this?
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Mar 13, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
I find alot of strength from the posters here.

Climbers are a determined lot and it is no surprise that the folks here are working their programs.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 13, 2013 - 05:37pm PT
Michelle - You'll find your way, if you keep putting one foot in front of the other with an eye on sobriety!

Though I am surely no expert, I would guess that a clinical detox is good for someone who is experiencing physical signs of withdrawal when they go without alcohol. It can be a dangerous thing to do, and can even be fatal, to go cold turkey - if one's body chemistry needs that booze to run. Clinical detox is a great way to transition through that phase.

For someone who is having issues staying away from booze due to emotional triggers, but has not yet gotten to the stage where the body depends on a stream of alcohol to maintain, a clinical detox might be a thing to do if one's insurance will pay the bill, or the cost is affordable. But.... without doing *more* to maintain sobriety, a detox in itself will serve to get the alcohol out of the system with some chemical assistance, but do nothing once the patient has flown the coop and is back roosting in the sh#t they drank over before the detox.

I wasn't at a physically addicted stage when I got sober, but have helped to see a few women off to be admitted for detox via walk-in. I have sat with a group of women as one pondered her inability to put together days when she so wanted to do just that, and considered a 30-day rehab program.

Whatever it takes, it takes. I remember being so jealous of that girl who went to rehab and came back with wonderful stories of the miracle which became her first month of long-term sobriety. SO wished I had gone to a rehab! I COULD have - even had insurance at the time. Grrrr - hahaha. But I guess I got what I needed.



Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Mar 13, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
Hey Michelle, thanks for posting up. I know you've been working on this for a bit, and I'm happy to see that you are looking at your options.

Happie and Jebus' posts have some good stuff in them. Detox programs can be super helpful if you're at the physical dependence level. In my case, I got "enforced detox" - in other words, I got locked up and had to suffer. I would have been a lot better off in a clinical setting, for sure.

Like Happie said though, detox is only part of the issue. Once you get out, you need to really concentrate on a support system to deal with your triggers. I've seen a lot of people detox and then come right out and go back to drinking. So if you're going to build a recovery plan that starts with detox, make sure to have something in place for when you get out.

Keep at it, we are all here for you if you need to talk or need support - my inbox is always open.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Mar 14, 2013 - 12:08am PT
Michelle detox could be a good thing. If it is a 30 day thing it will give you a leg up and could add good things to the mix. The safety thing would be great as it will add to your peace of mind.

I once tried to detox a friend of mine that couldn't get into our local dryout center. I just sat on him for a few days. Didn't realize till later he was trying kick crack at the same time. WOW that guy was loopy.

You don't want me to sit on ya. I could hurt ya in my inflated state. What state am I in? oh yeah Oregon!

Go to detox, treatment, whatever it takes. We are here for ya.

Plaid
Stevee B

Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
Mar 14, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
23 years this past month. Grateful, grateful, grateful.
Michelle I may have suggestions for a detox in the Bay Area if you are around these parts.
Michelle

Social climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Mar 14, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
hey thanks everyone for the support. the cost of detox is free, treatment is free etc through the VA. I'm lucky. and grateful. I am close to my support system via the VA, but that's mostly for PTSD. I have no problem sharing my situation (hey, could help someone!). I spent 9 months inpatient treatment (1 mo short rehab, 2 mo PTSD inpatient, 6 mo in a homeless rehab program). It's not recommended that I return to a program. It's not even recommended that I go to a short term detox. I have an upcoming surgery in May and I don't have much confidence about not drinking. maybe I'm just looking for an easier answer than doing the work. this is like my 40th rodeo.

I find that I don't really want to let it go. head full of AA and a beer in the hand is no way to go, I understand. I have made some uhm, personnel changes in my personal life to set myself up for better success. I guess I'm going to have to make A Decision. dunno. leaving my buddy beer is easier than breaking up a relationship.

just a rant here, but I get tired of being judged because I'm trying to evolve. I could easily live the bum life like I did for so many years. It's annoying when some bum looks down on me for being in therapy. "I'M NOT the one in therapy!" like, seriously? that's not empathy. /rant

thanks folks, I mean that

Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Mar 14, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
Pay no attention to the people that sabotage. Focus on YOUR progress and walk around them.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 14, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
Yes! Talk, talk, talk. You're doing it right Michelle. If you think booze might be holding you back from the happiness you so clearly deserve, just stop for awhile and see what happens. Considerer it a recon into potentially fertile and strategically desirable high ground. Wadda ya got to lose? I lost PLENTY before I finally gave up and ecided to get my life back. You go girl.
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Mar 16, 2013 - 07:39pm PT
oh, and being a drunk
is a multi-faced, tiered extistence.

like the glee and light-heartedness during
those moments of sinclair,
they clash titanically with the middle of the night
headaches and wretched dreams of sorrow and fear;

like the mad wife vs. the lone-drunken kayak down
poppy littered drainages;

the fat-ugly-gut-bleeding-liver versus the endless smile;

like the nonsense versus the worry;

like the bills flying outta my wallet versus the aluminum redemption;

like the devil's genitals cumbusting within god's reproductive cylinder;

like nothing versus all.


so i just ask myself,
"is the midnight misery worth the high-noon hijinks?"
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Mar 22, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
bump...going into the weekend I'm sure some of us will need strength.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 23, 2013 - 08:50am PT
One more sighn that i feel cured. I have had a real bad cold the last week and have had to take Nyquil to sleep and breath. I take exactly the measured dose and have zero temptation to doubble up and suplement. BINTD I would have washed the nyquil down with bourbon and then done annother shot of nyquil for good measure..

the last few years if i have a bad head and chest cold I have had no problem running the course of cough medicine without abuseing it and getting a 2nd bottle just in case.....
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 23, 2013 - 11:03am PT
Three years ago today since last drink.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 23, 2013 - 11:32am PT
Happy THREE YEARS Jaybro! WOOHOO!!!!


And good for you too, Tradmanclimbs.

I too have been steady and that is a miracle considering my situation right now. I have the AA mindset though, and don't consider myself cured - but am DEFINITELY enjoying my reprieve!

I know, for myself, that all it takes is one slip and I could be back to where I was before. Maybe not - maybe I could drink like a normal person again... but I don't want to run THAT experiment!

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 23, 2013 - 11:49am PT
Oh i know i could not have a little sip o wisky and control myself. no kidding around there but i feel rock solid most of the time and things like getting sick and actually following the direction on the medicine bottle instead of (self medicateing) help to reassure me that I am in fact cured. being cured keeps me strong. i don't need that sh#t anymore because i am cured. helps me stay away from the poor me syndrome.....
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 26, 2013 - 11:58pm PT
Anyone else not drinking tonight? I could use a little company.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Mar 27, 2013 - 12:14am PT
Jaybro yay!

I've been talking with the doc. my consumption isn't overly extreme. we have a specific plan to taper this month before my surgery. the concern is any physical detox issues need to be managed right now. stopping entirely at the moment is the concern. I know its contradictory to Pope Bill W and Jimmy K and the concept of just ending it. that can happen later. my reality is that I'm not chugging scotch like a fiend and that a managed slow down is called for. I've been honest with the doc. Also, I'll be taking some narcs post surgery and don't want to die. hopefully, can phase both beer and narcs out at the same time. I already quit smoking, so yay for now. its hard to unindoctrinate myself of the AA principles. I "grew up" among some VERY hard core NY and Ohio drunks and it's their voices I hear when the feeling of judgement overcomes me. I'm hanging in there though.

terrie, pm me and lets talk.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 27, 2013 - 12:42am PT
3 years as of yesterday.

S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Mar 27, 2013 - 12:49am PT
3 weeks of sobriety.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Mar 27, 2013 - 12:50am PT
happiegirl...im with you in spirit!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 28, 2013 - 01:30am PT
Happy 3 years, 2 days and...1 Day at a time. elcapinyoazz!

And happy 3 weeks, S.Leeper!
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Mar 28, 2013 - 10:24am PT
The funny thing about getting sober is that there are as many different approaches as there are people trying to get that monkey off their back. After a 33 year drinking career that ended in several year's worth of spectacular failure, I was blessed to find an approach that worked for me.

There is no doubt that AA and the 12 steps has a tried and true track record, but only when you have reached a point when you are ready to humble yourself, ask for help, and roll up your sleeves to do the work. Two months in a rehab was not enough for me the first time, and I continued my downward spiral for another two years. What that rehab stint did for me, though, was lay a foundation so that when I faced what I saw as a decision to either stop drinking or die, I knew what I had to do and checked myself back in. Coincidentally, it was on the day of my 49th birthday, and it turned out to be the best present I have ever received.

The previous resident of my rehab bed had left a card on the pillow that simply said, "Wait for the miracle to happen." At first I thought, "Yeah, right," but I held a place in my heart and head that there might be a solution. I worked my ass off, writing a 24 page First Step that was meant for me, and me alone; admitting that I was powerless over alcohol is the only step I need to do perfectly every day. I attended all of the meetings, asked for help by locating and calling a sponsor, and during my free time there I chose to work on my dis-ease instead of opting for the more "fun" alternatives.

One week into my second rehab I felt a change in my mental, emotional, and spiritual bodies. I couldn't explain it, and my family didn't believe it given my track record, but after one month I knew that I was ready to leave. Back home I worked the program hard, doing 120 meetings in 120 days even though I had no license and had to ask for help with rides; humbling and necessary. I worked the steps with my sponsor, spoke at meetings when asked, and prayed/meditated daily. Unbelievable to the drunk that was my former self, the obsession was lifted completely, and not once since leaving have I felt the urge to pick up. No drunk dreams, no twitching as I drive solo past a liquor store, no need to go back.

Alcoholism is a disease of "more," and for me I chose to not be limited to meetings and the label "My name is Loran, and I'm an alcoholic." That will always be a part of my story, but I find that it can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If I see myself as an alcoholic first and foremost, then I cannot evolve. My old sponsor takes the alcoholic label with pride and after 25 years he still goes to 5-6 meetings a week; it works for him and he is happy.

I stopped going to meetings at the year and a half mark, save for a weekly Alumni meeting at the rehab where I can share my experience with those just starting their recovery. This is now the only place where I tow the line and introduce myself as an alcoholic, more for the benefit of the newcomer than myself because deep down I know that I can't ever drink in safety. When I leave NH in 6 weeks, I am fully prepared to leave that part of my identity behind and become "Loran: husband, father, climber, furniture maker, and a tiny speck of earthly dust with ties to the Divine." By "Divine" I refer to a Spiritual approach, not necessarily religious. The two can go together or not, find what resonates for you and run (don't walk!) with it.

Should I ever find myself thinking about a drink I now know that I can make a call or attend a meeting full of friends that I haven't met yet. Until that day happens, if ever, I choose to move forward and evolve into whatever my Higher Self knows it can be. I just can't drink.

I wish peace and serenity to all of you still struggling. Sobriety is available to anyone who wants it for themselves and is willing to do the work on their own personal evolution.

happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
Hadn't seen that last post til just now. Thanks for that Loran!

I am struggling today. Not to stay away from a drink. I WISH I wanted a drink - hahah! (Not seriously, thank God). But I do keep getting some sort of movie-scenario scene in my head where "the drunk" goes on a bender and a half, running to escape the present, knowing that some day, somewhere, he will wake up and just - won't be - here, in the present. Thie lure of the drunken state. I am grateful I know better, but that isn't helping much with how I feel.

I am just tired and scared and overwhelmed. Having stress dreams each night and feeling like no matter what I do, it is not going to pull the rabbit out of the hat this time.

A sponsor once told me, when the feelings I am having are excruciating, to ask myself if I have what I need right now. Asking myself that question right now, the answer is yes.

But the voice in my head screams "RIGHT NOW WON'T LAST FOREVER!"

Please, voice in my head - just shut the flying f*#k up.


happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 4, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
^I am sure I will feel like that again at times, but am sure glad I don't feel like that right now...

Anyway - someone posted this link to their Facebook Feed - a blog entry for Roger Ebert, written in 2009, when he had 30 years sober...

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2009/08/my_name_is_roger_and_im_an_alc.html


It begins:
"In August 1979, I took my last drink. It was about four o'clock on a Saturday afternoon, the hot sun streaming through the windows of my little carriage house on Dickens. I put a glass of scotch and soda down on the living room table, went to bed, and pulled the blankets over my head. I couldn't take it any more."
thebravecowboy

Social climber
Colorado Plateau
Apr 9, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
What about mouthwash?

http://www.comedycentral.com/cc-studios/trevor-moore/omoirl/trevor-moore--what-about-mouthwash-?aXFk&xrs=csm_su_trevormouthwash&aQZk
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 9, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
^^

Funny that you mention it. I'd seen some bit on a news show about hard core gutter drunks who would buy some bottom shelf mouthwash to guzzle. The story was from Denver IIRC, and it was a specific brand, Dr. something or other.

This was right around when I stopped drinking and I remember thinking "I'd better get some non-alc mouthwash, who knows it might trigger a craving". And I did switch to non-alc based, which happened to be the same stuff my dentist was recommending. Still using that type/brand.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 9, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
Early on, I didn't worry about guzzling mouthwash, probably because I could afford to buy booze if I wanted, and wasn't living with someone (where one might feel a need to be more secretive about getting caught with booze).

But, once it was mentioned that there was a small amount of alcohol in most mouthwashes...that did it. I couldn't use the one I had (which did have it) without THINKING about that damned small amount. It wasn't long before I decided that it wasn't worth worrying about - just use non-alcohol wash!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 9, 2013 - 07:32pm PT
Hit the grocery store after work today. the usual, flour, yeast, raisins a few cans of pears, 2 apples a candy bar and a bottle of tripple berry seltzer. I noticed that I physicaly tense up when I walk down the beer isle....
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 10, 2013 - 11:23am PT
Then don't walk down the beer aisle! (har har)

One thing I heard in early sobriety was that, when drinking, we were used to walking down the sidewalk and falling into a hole in it, and then bitching about finding ourselves in the damned hole, wondering how the hell it happened.

Then, we stopped drinking and walked down the sidewalk and fell into a hole in it, and found ourselves bitching about it, wondering how the hell it happened.

Then, we began to see, while walking down the sidewalk, that there was a hole in it, and fell into it anyway... But while we were bitching about how it happened, we began to see that we had ignored the awareness of that hole!

Then, we walked down the sidewalk, saw the hole, became aware - and fell in ANYWAY!

Then, we began to walk down the sidewalk, and when we saw the hole - stepped around it.
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Apr 10, 2013 - 11:31am PT
Terry, when I was drinking and fell into a ditch, I just moved in some furniture and started selecting mud curtains. Today, that behavior is unacceptable; any and all urge to pick up is gone, baby, gone.

I have no problem walking down the beer and wine aisle, driving past the liquor store, or having my wife or son keep alcohol in the house. I have no need for that anymore, and have evolved spiritually, mentally, & emotionally to the point where it is not an issue. Now that is freedom, a gift of sobriety.

The only thing I seem to be addicted to is adrenaline.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 10, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
I'm similar to you, Edge, in that alcohol doesn't affect me -truly an amazing gift, although I was never "itchy" over it while drinking. My trigger, amongst society, was a fear I wasn't wanted in the crowd, that I wasn't good enough to be there, or somehow didn't deserve it.

In the third drink, I'd have those feelings melt away and began to relax. By the fifth, I was talking way too loud, and becoming a know it all. But apparently, I wasn't THAT bad, because people usually told me how entertaining and interesting I had been the night before. I wouldn't know, since always blacked out soon after "the melt."

Those feeling do still come up for me, when I am amongst others. Sometimes they don't -now THAT is MY gift from sobriety. WOW!

But sometimes they do. Sometimes I am walking down that sidewalk and those feelings are right there and I still walk in. The party at Seth's was an instance(though I wasn't aware of feelings of discomfort. But, instead of recognizing that I was doing my normal - sitting alone and watching things but not interacting, and making myself step around that hole and talk to people - I left.

Oh well....things take time. Some things take a LOT of time. SushiFest will be an opportunity for me to try again.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 10, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
It is basicly impossible to avoid the beer isle in the grocery store. That is the same place i get my seltzer water and they organize the store so that you have to walk past certain items to get to other items. dairy for example is at the back of the store so you walk past more products to get your milk. Anyways i have no problem walking down the beer isle. i am not actually tempted to buy anything. i simply noticed that i tense up sometimes when i am in that isle.
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 10, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
hey hank i know your pissed
cause i lipped off over there
on my cover of your sobriety thread.

so might i post hear,

i like to stand around my
7 left over cans,
and get real close to their
label.
i touch the can with a yearning heart,
and realize that only a thin
ribbon of aluminum keeps us
apart.

sometimes i rub the can.
then i even bite it gently,
like i would a nipple.

i've got pretty impressive
canines, almost vampire-like,
so if i really got after it,
i could prolly puncture a wee-breach
in the container and catch some
fumes, maybe a bubble or two.

a little bit of worship ain't sin
in my religion.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Apr 24, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
been struggling as of late.
hippielogger

climber
Townsend,Mt
Apr 24, 2013 - 07:04pm PT
Your not alone, we all struggle from time to time. Telling myself over and over I'm doing the right thing( not picking up a drink that is) works sometimes. Remind yourself of all the success you've had up to this point and strive for more!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Apr 24, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
great advice. I had a good day today ;)
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 24, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
The fear of what happens if I slip up is enough to quash most of the incipient cravings I have. But they still pop up. At the weirdest times too.

I'm getting plenty of positive reinforcement from my climbing. Climbing long time dream routes that are only possible for me because I stopped. That alone would be worth it. But it was feeling out of control (i.e. addicted) that made me stop, the climbing better part is bonus.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 24, 2013 - 09:31pm PT
I am climbing better than ever despite nagging injurys associated with 51 yrs of hard work on the body.
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
trad i've some tinkerbell
perfume that will probably
repel some of the butterflies
that must flock towards your brilliance.

you know,
in case they are impeding your
righteous ascent, jest
let me no.

i'll hook you into
a mutually viable economic contract.

of course your lawyer may be
present as long as her wallet
is spilling social courtesies.

Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:26am PT
Nice job all. Looks like you are hanging there. Right on. Warms the soul. Coming up on 27 years next July. Working on new projects and eating better and losing weight.

Making another life change similar to quitting the booze. Sure has been a great ride so far with staying sober and knocking off the drugs. And it just keeps getting better. Even with bumps in the road. OMG it is better!

Plaid
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Apr 25, 2013 - 07:26am PT
Ozzy relapsed, don't drop your guard,

Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:59am PT
I,m not Ozzy. Guard up.

Plaid
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 25, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Having a tough time, though a relapse doesn't seem imminent. What good would it do? I'd still be where I am, but ashamed to admit it. A slip right now, for me, would be catastrophic. I am grateful that if I know nothing else, at least I do know that.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:29pm PT
makes me tired and stoopid,


i mean more stoopid, sorry,

the thrill is gone, sold the T shirt,

now i'm hooked on Red Bull, priced high because it tastes like crap,

hang in there Happygirl, don't let the bastards get you down,
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 25, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
slip right now, for me, would be catastrophic


Yup....you need to stay whole, not just for yourself but Teddy too!

All the best,
Susan
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Apr 25, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
I'm looking forward to going to a meeting on Monday, being around others trying to get healthy.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Apr 26, 2013 - 01:07am PT
happiegrrrl -- I think about what I don't want. I sobered up not to just stop drinking. It was all the consequences that I got sick of. Like flipping cars, blacking out and ending up in weird places.

Then today it is what I would not feel. Today I cried cause I felt so much. It wasn't good or bad. Maybe it sounds silly, but I am intense. I just won't go back to the coma that was my life before.

Sometimes staying sober is just waiting long enough to see that next thing that makes it worth it. Or like a really hard climb that you just have to stay in balance mentally and physically, even spiritually because the key to that pitch is just the next hold that unlocks the whole climb.

Awe well, sometimes I just stay sober cause my higher power and it's just easier. It really is the easier softer way. Even when it's hard.

Plaid
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 26, 2013 - 02:14pm PT
my daughters saw it in my eye,
and understood my tone.

"here goes dad.
who knows where, but surely he is gone for
a moment or even a few days.

we respect his search. he always
comes back, eventually."

so we were whittling sticks in
the wood crib, we had a cozy fire
going. boston on radio waves...
not the horrible bombing story,
but instead, the band...

BORNE ON A FEELING!

and i launch into a speech,
aimed at no one in particular,
mainly at the walls whom always make me feel
uncomfortable....

and this time i watched my girls.
they scrambled a bit,
then found a comfortable perch:
maki seated,
anna leaning on one of those walls.

.... "sobriety?" i begin.
"...those whom make this pledge
are valid olympians. yes they are.
though, their firm emotional stance
suggests to me a naivety poised upon hope and optimism.

they think that they can deflect the bullet of
their undoing...

... buy some time.
....sell some smile.
not me. i've been doon the sober road,
and, yea, it leads somewhere...

though it lead to the same place that
my path of enjoyable addiction terminates....."

a half hour of something has passed.

my girls are still watching daddy.
i've been making a lamp,
all the while during my oration.

never are they riveted upon me
as in times like these.

open beings. all three of us.
where's mom?

probably baking bread,
love her.

so i see that a conclusion is in order,
and i wrap up my fleeting understanding with this:

"...i've a candle.
i burn it, seeking zen escape.

though evertime i light this candle,
i hear harley davidsons.

the ignition of the wick sounds just like
a harley roaring up my serene river canyon.

i hate harleys, i don't know how many times
i've swung fists according to my disdain of
those super-disrespectful-fvcks whom deem
it their right to attack the innocent silence...

but this candle.
those harleys.

a lesson is at hand, for me and mine.

zen is suffering.
alcoholism is an illness worthy of my physiology.
it just is my path.

i dont f*#king care,
the bills are paid,
we've a tall castle or two in the mountains.
song is borne, daily.
understanding is upset. daily.

prosperity is prey,
we, hunters..."

and thus my shout fades to a whisper.

"nice lamp daddy. whose it for?"

"oh. this lamp is for rick sumner.
rick's a good man. he traveled many untrodden
paths in our sierras. proud paths. proud man, rick."

"how much money, daddy, did you sell it for?"

"200 dollars, sweets. though the money is for
another good man and our friend, blitzo. he's sick
and needs some help. so rick donated the money,
i donated the stone, and the hole thru,
and the electron transfer across our brow's."

.. the girls stare at me with their beautiful
eyes and deep wonder...

nothing more is said,
cause we don't know the intent of the universe.

so we fumble onward together, as genetic companions.





kaholatingtong

Trad climber
Nevada City
Apr 26, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
quality prose weeg, props.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 26, 2013 - 03:59pm PT
Trying.

Very trying.

I am so confused I don't know what to do any more. I think I have really hosed myself. (But I won't drink. Why would I want to miss feeling and going through this!)


And if my own crap wasm't enough, I had a friend tell me that one of my websites is nonfunctional in Internet Explorer. Trying to get help getting that fixed - from tech geeks who forget that they code 5.14X and are speaking to someone who understands 3rd class code... GAHHH! I want to throw my computer against the wall.



Time to take a break.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 26, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
Happi. Is that lens still for sale? Will it work on my Nikon D5000 DLR? Gonna take me about a week.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Apr 26, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
Came very close to AO today. A call to my sponsor did the trick!
orle

climber
Apr 29, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
The other night I tended a gently crackling campfire as twilight grew into night and the stars slowly emerged through the silhouetted pines, and I drank in a fine vintage of experience

Profound epiphany, brah :D

I quit the drink (and the subsequent benzo's) about 9 months ago. Still plays on my mind a lot, I'm sad to say.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 29, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
The writing here by people I respect talking about this topic in a very real way has made a difference in my life.

+1
orle

climber
Apr 29, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
I'll see your +1 and raise you a +2
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Apr 29, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
Keep up the good work, Jebus! It continues to get better every day away from the drink.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Apr 29, 2013 - 06:07pm PT
I'm coming up on 3 years, life is incredible and I'm strong, but I still dream of my Dr. saying I have terminal cancer, that way I can re-lapse immediately... Fukcing sick right?

Sick? No just alcoholic.

Plaid
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 29, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
I'm doing better than I was a few days ago, due to being able to get on the move again. I just want to get back to NY at this point, and a small influx of orders for my jewelry and hair accessories, plus an unexpected birthday gift(the only b/day gift I have gotten in many years was 2 years ago, a board game from the guy I was road-tripping with, and he could have had no idea how much that simple gift meant to me,) has given me a few hundred miles worth of travel.

But I am worried about the feelings of self-loathing, fear and desolation which will probably rise up when I am stopped again. It was pretty bad last week. Maybe I will remember that I made it through that, and feeling the way I did wasn't helpful at all. Hopefully I will.

Today is my birthday and my Facebook page was filled with wishes. I am pretty sure near every FB friend I have posted something. I can use that as proof that people do care, if I start to feel lost again. So, if I come on here pouting in the next week, tell me to STFU... but nicely, please.

Sober today, and feeling okay.
Mark Not-circlehead

climber
Martinez, CA
Apr 29, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
Last week was 13 years for me (4-24-2000).

To all those really struggling in your first day, week, month, year or decade: Keep it up. It gets better and better.

Lean on those strong enough to support you, cut loose all those weak enough to drag you down.

S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
May 6, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
Went to a meeting today. I'm leaving for Japan on Thurs. and I'm a little worried about AO.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 6, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
Hang in there Leeper. You're already a good step ahead of me by going to meetings. Wish I would have in the early stages, because there were a lot of outside stressors in my life when I first quit. Meetings would have helped I think. I'm just not a joiner, and not particularly open with emotions especially with strangers.

The upside is, there should be so much sensory stimulation from being in a foreign culture, you probably won't even miss the booze.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 6, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
Seltzer in a can for partys. No calories and no sugar etc. I used to do the ginger ale thing but it gave me a wicked sugar hangover. played a Luau party sat night. 2 full sets with everyone drinking hard and I was fine with my can o seltzer. partyed hard though. pounded about 10 cans;)
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
May 6, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
The saying in AA is "Non-alcoholic beer is for non-alcoholics."

For me, I don't do it. Some do.

I know of one person who had been sober some years, felt fine, no itches to drink. He would go to the bar with friends, and order a NA beer. Did it for a long time, no problem.

But one day he reached for that beer and accidentally grabbed a similar bottle, which wasn't his - it was a real beer. He realized it after the gulp, and....took another. That was all it took for him to slip! He ended up years drinking again after that.

Alcofol - Cunning, baffling, powerful MOTHER F'KER!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
May 6, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
Elcapiyass, thanks for the encouragement!

Alcohol is not my drug of choice, but I get your sentiment.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 6, 2013 - 09:33pm PT
NA beer actually has some alchohol in it. At least BINTD when i used to drink Odules @ Pistol matches i read the lable and it had a small % of alchohol. Not ideal for purgeing the system and staying clean.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
May 6, 2013 - 10:29pm PT
I don't drink NA beer cause it will make me fat. Plus I don't need it.

Plaid
AZ-OW

Trad climber
Granite Mountain Wilderness
May 10, 2013 - 10:31am PT
Took my 6 month chip this morning.
Thanks for your experience, strength,and hope.
Keep climbing and don't pick up, no matter what.
Bump for an awesome thread!
-Chris S
Woody the Beaver

Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
May 28, 2013 - 08:01am PT
Way to go, Hank! Thanks for starting the thread when you did. It's been a good companion.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 28, 2013 - 08:39am PT
Good job Hank!
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
May 28, 2013 - 10:01am PT
Good work, Hank, and yes, thanks for starting this thread.
Can't wait to climb with you this summer.
McCfly

climber
May 28, 2013 - 10:23am PT
Congrats Hank!

Life is not always good but it sure as hell is better right.

Enjoy the good times and be patient with the bad ones...
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
May 28, 2013 - 10:51am PT
Congratulations, Hank!

Time flies when you're having fun and can remember having it!
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
May 28, 2013 - 11:05am PT
Keep up the good work, Hank! If the Creator is willing, I will hit the three year mark in just over a month, probably somewhere in the desert southwest. I can't even remember the last time I craved a drink, or the inevitable blackout that it always led to.
mooser

Trad climber
seattle
May 28, 2013 - 11:22am PT
Congratulations to you, Hank!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
May 28, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
Nice work and thanks for the thread!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 28, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
nice job hank!

my favorite was how the "mouthwash" was an all time low!
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
May 30, 2013 - 01:23am PT
Good job Hank and thanks for this thread.
McCfly

climber
May 30, 2013 - 01:58am PT
Lucky to have mine for another day.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
May 30, 2013 - 02:22am PT
From someone who watched my dad drink sea breeze face cleaner (among other things), dragged him away from a burning bed/nightstand (drunken pass out), went with my mom to pick him up from jail after a DUI car crash, various po po appearances at our house, and many other wishfully forgettable moments, please keep it up!

I'm not saying every person who has a problem with alcohol is a freaking absolute danger and menace to everyone around them--my dad, despite the foregoing, was actually non-violent and a pretty good guy--but am just giving a shout out to everyone trying to improve themselves.

Stay strong!

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
May 31, 2013 - 03:16pm PT
wrapping up a critical work push,
i got 6k in the mail.

now it is friday, heading into a holiday weekend.
i turned in my work a day early,
so i begin my celebration bender at 5:40 am.

i gently ease into it,
out in my woodshed with a fire going,
the relics album from pink floyd on the turntable,
and me sharpening my saws,
dulling my senses.

my children wake up at 6:30 to playful
tickles from daddy,
and we build our morning nicely.
i make them breakfast, pack their lunches,
kiss the wife
(she looks at me with that side-winder stink-eye!)

and i see everyone off to their work / school.

it's 7:30 am, i've a home and a forest to myself,
and a 30 pack of bud.

it is lightly raining so i spark some huge
burn piles, putting a bruise in my fire danger.

i set my can down to stoke a blaze,
and the ants move onto and into my beer.
tons of them.

so i run up and grab the brand new camera and
photo document me drinking a piss-ant covered
piss beer. the two actually accentuated each other.

so this was mistake #1.
i left the camera hanging on a tree,
too near the rowdy phase change.
f*#ked it up beyond function.

then i write up a couple of stoopid threads
on your turf,
then peel out of the abode and head into town.

just prior i make a couple of drunk-purchases
on the internet:
70 meter haul line, at 260,
and a slew of logging gear at 300.

mistake # 2.

i get to town and head into the alley behind main street
so my dog can swim in the creek,
and i can drink beer in the privacy of my own sun.

after a few i walk back out of the alley,
still drinking a beer,
and literally run into an african american
with huge dreads and a kind demeanor.

sadly, he stuck out in our ignorant little hick town.
so i strike up conversation with him,
and he asks me if i care to grab a beer.

i got errands, i tell him, but i lead him to our sole-bar.
before i leave him, i gently warn him that he might receive
some hard looks from the locals, but to just ignore them.

he told me that he's cool, coming from new york on his sales tour.

so i leave him and go buy my wife a dozen blood red roses,
at 100 buck with the tip i gave the cutie behind the counter.

i stole some cash and put it on her card:

"the taste of love is sweet,
when hearts like ours meet."

then i have these and the card delivered to my hard-working wife
(mind you im in no trouble with the wife at this point, because she doesn't yet know of the busted camera, and the 600 dollars worth of climbing gear i purchased)

mistake # 3. more careless spending.

leaving the florist, im floored.
i'll go check on "t" (that was the name the african fella told me.)
i muse.

so i go into the bar, and sure enough "t" is sitting among quiet and uncomfortable stares from the denizens.

so i bar-stool next to him,
and get a beer.
we chat and he ends up selling me 240 dollars worth of
concentrated citrus cleaner (enough to make 340 gallons
of usuable agent!)

i give him my credit card, he makes a call,
and we run out into the alley to meet his connection.
sure enough, it's legit and im carring like 40 pounds
of scented product.

mistake #4.

so i meet the family in strawberry,
the wife is elated with my gesture on the flowers.
slowly my story unfolds, and she is irate, understandably.

she's had it.
after a heated verbal exchange and
some tears down her cheek,
i realize (again) that i cant drink, anymore.

so we put away the bad habit, and move
timidly forward, quaking in our wedding rings.

that was a week ago.
now that im sober again,
im tearing down the to-do list with reckless devotion.

the pressure of my own creation is building in my heart,
im not sleeping again;
all the clients are praising me,
the pay is sweet,

and i find myself needing a downer of sorts.
to unrev, you know.
i hate accomplishing so much, so frequently.
it is exhausting.
i got to go have a beer, and f*#king chill.

so im honest with you and me,
i can't drink,
and i can't not drink.

signed,
your first-world fool.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 31, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
Amen weeg. Yer a stubborn fuk. Welcome to the club.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
May 31, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
Some have the ability to moderate their consumption be it beer, hootch, thin hand cracks, run out face, jam sessions, careers or relationships.
For others, moderation is impossible and it's all or nothing, hair straight back, zero to one hundred right now with little or no concern for the consequences.
How either group arrive at such predispositions can be either obvious, a mystery or both.
Just past the half century mark, the evidence seems to indicate that like many of my friends and heroes (some provide inspiration here), I'm part of the second group.
Not sure what the answer is but moderation doesn't seem to be an option so far.
It's been almost 32 months (this time; and yes, I'm counting) and it seemed like an easy choice with little in the way of white knuckling, so far.
(Maybe the habits just finally seemed too costly and unsustainable).

Never's a long time and I'm not making any promises so I tell my friends it's a beer and hootch sabbatical, one day at a time.
I check in on this thread now and then because it's like a 24/7 cyber meeting without the cigarette smoke, bad coffee, narrow catechisms and hackneyed monologues.
I don't have to say anything and I can leave when I want.

Thanks to Hank and everyone else with the courage to be honest, it helps.

PB
perswig

climber
May 31, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
Well said, Perry.
I, too, check in here regularly, mostly when I'm getting too smug and complacent in life and need to remember that many folks are on run-out ground on a daily basis for one reason or another and that it couldn't hurt to send some good vibes their way.

Props to all kicking back at the darkness.
Dale
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jun 1, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
Sorry for your predicament, Norwegian. I've seen the same in dozens others. I wish you what you wouldn't wish for your worst enemy - sobriety.

Because without it, you are pretty clearly going to lose your wife(you have had 2 strikes documented here on ST in the last few weeks). Because without it you are a drunk driver on the road. Because without it your liver is being slowly poisoned to death, as is you mind.

If nothing else matters to you, might it bother you to lose that romantic way with words you enjoy? If nothing else, isn't your creative self worth the sacrifice of alcohol?
McCfly

climber
Jun 1, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
I also am alcoholic and drug addicted. Sober now about 5 maybe 6 years? Did one other 7 year sober stint and a few 1-3 years stints. Fifteen was my first AA meeting. Although i do not do AA my childhood neighbor getting me to a meeting that early in life was instrumental in me being sober today. She planted a seed that it took years for me to germinate.

Maybe you should consider the pain inflicted upon those whom you love those whom have no choice "your children" maybe if you can stop for a short enough time for them you will find a way or reason to stop long term for yourself. You are hurting them and hurting them bad. Some of those wounds will never ever heal.

I have gone back and forth with addiction my whole life. I also come from a family of addicts. Once you get beyond some months and years it does get much much more easy. The desire does subside a bit and life is more manageable if for no other reason than you are not making it harder than it has to be. Life is still hard, very hard do not get me wrong. However it is not that kind of hard. That kind of hard is brutal!!

Life is by far 120% easier sober than not sober. I understand when you have been addicted since early childhood it is hard to imagine/comprehend that you have the capacity to cope any other way. I am not sure how long you have had this struggle but just a few years is enough to bring a man to his knees imop. If this is a life long thing it can seem impossible.

You can be sober you just have to find a way to want to be sober bad enough. I know for me it means walking away from everything i know so i can have some time to focus on me and only me when i relapse. When you are addicted you are a very very broken soul broken beyond even your own understanding. Sometimes you just can not see the forest through the trees. The only way out is hard hard work and 120% commitment to the cause. It can be done!!!

It could even mean leaving your family as the stress of home being a father and husband maybe be triggers and too much for you in the initial stages of getting sober. A hard reality i know but i would go as far as saying that your family is better off with out for a time while you get your sh#t together than they are suffering a lifetime of you addicted.

I wish you the best as i do all those suffering from addiction. behind every person is a story and in most cases behind every addict is a long chain of addicts. It is sad but up to you and only you to break that cycle.

Best wishes. If you have not try kicking heroine booze and speed and benzos all the same time that hurts! Booze hurts but it is can be done. Get help if you need it..

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jun 5, 2013 - 06:32am PT
sweet coz,
insanity can be construed accurately as talent.

no sane man accomplishes what i do.

im finding sobriety is a crimper,
and innebriation a jug.

ascending realities sober is akin to ground-up, onsight;
where limping thru days constantly f*#ked up,
is like pulling on gear.

not that that's bad.
somedays i place a cam and yard higher,
but these days im sketching thru and thru,
just me scraping my hope against my despair;
though i realize that the summit im chasing
is lower than my basecamp.

f*#k it, ascent, descent.
as long as im sending.
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
Jun 5, 2013 - 11:21am PT
I'm with coz here
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jun 5, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
Dittos.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jun 6, 2013 - 08:09am PT
mcfly my story is littered with
self-inflicted hardship.
my whole life,
i've had every opportunity gently handed to me,
and i want to have to chase that shite.
so i create handicaps for myself.

i want life to be hard.
i have such strong convictions
to assign each of my goals,
that they always fall, easily.
life ain't hard enough, when im sober.

it is looking, though,
like life may take some ugly turns
unless i ease up on the abuse.

so i will.
so i am.
it is fine again.

yesterday i blew up a deadline
that defied logic.

i sent a drawing package to my client
and, literally, their jaw dropped.

honestly,
i ran about (4) fourteen hour
shifts back to back to accomplish the insane,
and the lack of sleep coupled with
the mental duress resulted in a
euphoric type mental state,
that i kinda enjoyed.

i was seeing sheit that weren't there.

so i can give up booze,
though i'll just find another way to bludgeon my mind.
we have this mutual distaste for
peace and clarity, me and my mind do.

so we constantly war with one another.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jun 6, 2013 - 09:42am PT
I try to be kind to myself. I used to be judgmental and the one I judged the hardest was me. I am disciplined and once a course is set I stick to it till the end. There is balance Norwegian. Find the sweet spot. Enjoy the life we have and if you are healthy that's a lot to be thankful for.

Today I am grateful.

Plaid
bixquite

Social climber
humboldt nation
Jun 6, 2013 - 10:28am PT
norwegian, your writing is always thoughtful and carries the reader into your journey. Thank you.
Just you tubed Joni Mitchell singing coyote in the last waltz and thought of your writing.
peace
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Jun 6, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
im finding sobriety is a crimper, and innebriation a jug


Too true.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jun 6, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
If you drink enough, you can be drunk for the rest of your life without drinking.

Such a weird thing alcohol/ism is.

I have also heard some long-term drinkers tell of the day that they drank and...nothing. The alcohol has completely stopped working, no buzz whatsoever. Physically addicted, they NEEDED to drink. Mentally addicted, the drink offered no relief. They described the condition as a living hell.

I'm coming into the "home stretch" on another year sober. I have a ways to go until August 26th and 17 years(ow, that seems unreal!) without a drink, but this is the time of year when my bottom was becoming clear to me, even still in my drinking days.

I am very lucky that I got sober, because I was finding myself in social situations(if they could be called that) in which I could have been badly injured.

This time of year tends to have a bit of a morose quality to it for me, as I recall some of the things I was going through. This time it is compounded with a very difficult financial situation, but I am starting to feel I do have something left to offer the world again.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jun 6, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
This is maybe the second most stressful week of my life.

I'm usually pretty even keeled, but I'm about to melt down here to the point I've gone from clenched jaw to just laughing out loud. Workplace stress is off the charts. Bi-polar boss is throwing me under the bus, HQ is making last-minute mandatory requests for data, giving conflicting directions, and general insanity. I'd be pulling out my hair if there was any left.

But the upside? Despite feeling like I want to crawl into bed, pull the sheet over my head and hide, I feel no desire to drink. At all.

Sure could use a giant bowl of sour diesel right about now though. (sobriety as an end to itself was never part of my deal, dealing with alcohol addiction was/is)

McCfly

climber
Jun 10, 2013 - 12:00am PT
I could be interested in that.

Always a pleasure to come across a climbing partner that is and has been 100% sober and or just does not have a substance abuse problem of any kind. In all honesty for me it has been rare and really limited my potential climbing partners as i really just do not enjoy climbing the same with someone that want to drink or smoke while climbing or it is the first thing they do when done.

I agree so many climbers climbing takes part around a bottle or joint in some way shape or form. Kinda sad if you ask me as being sober and out in nature life as pure as it can be completely content with every moment just as it is has go to be the best darn thing i have ever experienced. And i was one of those people for many years that you never could have told that a joint or beer or this or that didn't just make it better.



happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jun 10, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
I'd be interested in a sober climbing meet-up in JTree if it was after mid November. Before then, the Gunks. I could host a small group at the place I live(but cannot provide Mohonk Preserve access passes). Quiet, wooded, campfire, one mile from climbing.
McCfly

climber
Jun 10, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
Gunks could work for me as i am in Boston. I make the trip almost weekly when not injured. Should be returning to action very soon.

If it was out west it would have to be no later than November for me as also ice season owns me come December and i am trying to plan a Alaska trip for the spring..
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Jun 10, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
Well, not so much struggling but tired of this for now. With upcoming major surgery, I figure I better hang up the towel. I look at myself and see not good, not bad, just not what is prefer to be. I've spent the past couple years floating aimlessly (I no longer need to work) around my life trying to figure it all out in my brain. I'm bored. I'm not really all that stressed. Boredom KILLS me though and I am not used to finding fun things to do in an urban area, so, TV and the green label it is. Everything costs sheckels which hopefully I'll have more of as a result. I may even find myself back in school, just for the hell of it, who knows. Not looking forward to this first month of physical effects but its not the first time, I lived before, guess I can live through it again.


A gathering would be pretty cool, but I think they all are and I NEVER go to any. Too reclusive.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jun 11, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
Good luck, Michelle!

Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Jun 11, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
Keep me in your thoughts, today is day one (again). Among all the good work noted in this thread, I look back thru it all and see my posts here and there back to 2010, sober, struggle, sober, struggle, struggle, struggle. The drinking roller coaster stops now, please, I want to get off this train of disaster. A sober outing sounds attractive.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jun 12, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
^ Posted at 4:20...

Best of luck to you - Day 2 today?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
Go Anxious!

You will find many struggles no matter which way you turn.

It's just that you can make more of them go away sober, instead of just piling up more, wasted.
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Jun 12, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
Yup, day 2. Going to hang tough on that hour's worth of drive home from work tonight. Always one of my more difficult times.

BTW, anyone interested in joining me and taking advantage of a Friday June 14 entry permit? I've got room for 4 on my 7 person reservation for South Fork of Big Pine Creek. Still haven't done Disappointment Peak, so we're headed that way. You and your friends are more than welcome to join us on that little adventure, or you can bag Middle Palisade, Clyde Peak, the Thumb, or one of the awesome traverses...

Let me know!
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jun 12, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
Rooting for your Day 2
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 12, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
We're all counting days. Hang in there!
McCfly

climber
Jun 12, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
Stop counting and start breathing.

But yes we all count for a while.. I normally give loose track after the 1.5 year mark.

That does not make me abad drunk or druggy though as i have a bad habit or relapsing at either 3 years 5 years or 7 years..

Really though breathing helps and not focusing on every little things like days.

You can do anything you really really really want to do.
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:01am PT
Just finished packing for my 3 day Sierra peak bag trip. Fastest and easiest in long time. Maybe my previous efforts all those years w 12 pack support weren't such a good idea after all. LOL!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jun 17, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
So damn close to relapse, the only thing that saved my ass last week was that I was too tired to get in the car and drive to the store (I thank the powers that be there was no minibar in the hotel room.)

Climbing like sh#t, somehow ended up 10lbs over my best climbing weight, nursing a couple chronic injuries, work is killing me, boss is psycho, friend's in bad health, blah blah blah. Poor pitiful me. Sober me, though.

Seemed like it had gotten so easy, until the day it wasn't.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jun 17, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
Went to my first meeting in over a month, I feel much better.

Great work Hank!!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 17, 2013 - 06:29pm PT
no matter what your problems are and we all have em. drinking makes em worse. Not better.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 23, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
My old climbing partner/drinking buddy from Co is in VT for the summer. Def a bit rough after climbing....
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jun 23, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
I was so, so, so tempted to "have just one" in the Valley recently. Seeing everyone sitting around with beers, after a climb, on a hot day, I was so tempted. Didn't do it though, I knew it would be too much of a slippery slope and that after one I'd have at five more every day I was there.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 23, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
Here in Santa Monica there are a lot of meditation AA meetings where we sit for 30 minutes. Those are very helpful.

JL
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Jun 23, 2013 - 08:12pm PT
So thankful for this thread. This last week I've been hanging with the right crowd and reading a page here or there within the Sobriety thread. It really helps fill in some of the dangerous downtime gaps. Lots of wisdom here.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jun 23, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
Amongst a group of fellow AA'ers, that must be very powerful, John.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Jun 23, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
Stay strong Mark!
I don't think it would be the end of the world if I had a beer or toke, but I'm not going to take the chance.
PB
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jun 24, 2013 - 12:14am PT
Thanks, Chief.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 24, 2013 - 12:38am PT
Don't forget "the insanity of the first drink (toke)."
JL
Stevee B

Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
Jun 24, 2013 - 04:19am PT
I hope to meet more of you out there. I had a sponsor that used to tell me, every time we spoke: "I only have to remember where I came from and that I can't do it alone." Those two things have carried me through some very dark seas to some very bright days.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jun 28, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
Just checking in.... It's been tough. Teddy is sick. It is a major systematic yeast infection. The recovery is a very slow process and I hate to see him like this. Having to explain to every person who sees him is tiring, and some people have said some things which they mean to be helpful, but aren't.

Income is still a problem, too.

(pause....)

I am at the library, and the librarian just got a cel call. He apologized afterward(for the ring)and mentioned he was waiting to hear details on a funeral service. His friend, a 27 year old mother of two was killed when her car flipped over, having been hit by a drunken driver.

Thank you God. Universe, fellow travelers on the sober path, for my sobriety.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jun 28, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
Thanks for checking in HappieGirl.

Life gets in the way of our sobriety often, doesn't it?

I usually go to meetings on Monday, but today I went to the Friday meeting to

hear someone's first step. I'm really glad I went; it really helped me to have

ideas for my first step that I will be doing in a month or so.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jun 29, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
Thanks eKat. Teddy is doing better today, but yesterday was bad.

Sobriety is a funny thing for me. It seems I really haven't got much of a problem staying away fro a drink, and even the DESIRE barely ever even whispers in my ear. When that does happen, I am lucky in that so far I have been able to say "Bad idea!" or similar.

I know how hard it can be for many people to stay away from that first drink, and I am REALLY lucky. because I have the feeling that if I hadn't been "one of the lucky ones" (who had the desire lifted) there is no way in hell I would have been able to string together this much time sober. I'm good at being sober but it really does seem that I'm not so good at Life 101 even with sobriety sometimes.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jun 29, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
I know just what you mean Happie. Life 101 was the last promise that came to me as well.

My 13 year anniversary was February 14th, but it's only the last 3 years where I actually started to get my life running in a truly positive direction. Getting my life on the right track and forcing myself to not only be, but focus on dedicating myself to becoming a better person, took a lot longer then I thought it would.
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Jul 1, 2013 - 11:04am PT
Three years sober today, which is also my 52nd birthday...

I am so grateful to be where I am today, and that the obsession to drink has been completely removed. I can't rest on that though, every day I work on my spiritual growth that was the key to my sobriety. That usually begins with a visit to the chapel of the Great Outdoors. Today that happens to be waking up near the North Rum of the Grand Canyon and driving through Navajo Nation to Sedona, with plenty of walks and stops along the way. I never could have done this, or appreciated it, if I was still swillin'.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jul 1, 2013 - 11:38am PT
Happy Birthday and Sober Anniversary, Edge!
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Jul 1, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
twenty days today. looking forward to a true independence celebration in a couple more.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jul 1, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
I, too, am well today. Had coffee with a friend this morning, hitting the noon meeting with many good people two blocks from my house, then hanging with my son for this afternoon, and dinner. So very very very much better than being sick of soul, isolated, and wasted.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jul 1, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
Every time I see this thread pop up, I need to look. Your support of each other is very comforting. I hope my son has that kind of support. I think he's been clean fo the last three years, but I worry about that devil on his shoulder.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 1, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
great meeting today.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 1, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
way to go , Edge!!
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Jul 1, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
Ha, Timid, thanks for pointing that out; totally unintentional.

Friends shouldn't let friends (with fat fingers) type on itty bitty iPhones.
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Jul 8, 2013 - 01:14am PT
Is it appropriate to seek a sponsor here? San Diego County? PM me.
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 8, 2013 - 08:24am PT
Getting a sponsor is a tricky thing. Whatever works.
I found mine in a meeting. He was a mean old
bastard. Just what I needed.

By the way all. I had my B-day on the 5th of July.
Soberity date 7/5/1985

Plaid
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 8, 2013 - 09:54am PT
Thanks eKAT! I have lost a bunch of weight too! 34 pounds so far and working out to keep the lean muscle mass. Feeling AWESOME!!!

Plaid
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Jul 8, 2013 - 10:42am PT
Plaidman,
Wow! Great work! Cograts to you and all the afflicted who find a way to not pick up that bottle again today!

Understand the tricky sponsor bit. About three years ago I had over a year sober (one of only a couple I've had in the last 4 decades) and a good sponsor. I didn't keep up my end of the bargain, and cancer has taken him.
I'm 27 days into my recovery and starting to look around for sponsorship. Just thought that if I could find someone that also battles that damn climbing demon there might be a bit more connection....

Sponsor? Unsure. The only thing I'm sure of right now is that I can't pick up that next bottle, and that my life has become totally unmanageable. Good enough for now.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jul 8, 2013 - 11:05am PT
Went to a wedding this weekend and you know what? Even though:

 I knew only the bride by more than acquaintance
 There were people 20 years younger than I, and 20 years older, but not really any within a few years of my own age
 No unattached men within my age preferences
 Not many other "single units" except for two young guys who sat sullenly playing computer games on their phones(meaning nobody really interested in holding a conversation with me, or bringing me into one they were having amongst friends
 I had no "Teddy Escort Service"(he acts as a buffer for my discomfort in social settings)
 I had a light level discomfort for the duration of the events

It didn't OCCUR to me to drink! OR feel sorry for myself!(though that did come after I got home, safely away from imposing it on others).

Not only that, when I saw one of the drink offerings was lemonade, I was smart enough to ask if there was alcohol in it, and when I found out there was, thought "Well, that's really not very bright of the one who made it. People just ADD their own if they wanted boozed lemonade!"

But, the fruit punch was clean, and so I wasn't limited to a choice between soda and plain water.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 8, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
Well, that's really not very bright of the one who made it. People just ADD their own if they wanted boozed lemonade!"

I don't know if it's bright or not, but it's certainly deceptive to describe a booze drink as "lemonade" without noting the booze, at least in any situation I've ever been.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jul 8, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
Yeah - I guess so. Hopefully the bartender thought to mention the alcohol to each person who requested the lemonade! But I think that he wasn't the one responsible for the sign. It was probably made by a friend of the wedding party(small, casual wedding - very nicely done, but not professionally organized.
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Jul 11, 2013 - 07:32pm PT
To echo the Hankster's original post, I hit my 30th day and its been rougher than I expected. Guess those stories of sober alcoholics falling off the wagon, and falling really hard is true. I mean, I guess on some level I understood that heavier drinking or riskier behavior or abandonment of the things we love or just the whole sh*ty place we wind up is well discussed, but I'm not sure I paid much attention to how hard it is to crawl back up out of that pit of despair, mental retardation, and physical disability.

Just AM eating the elephant......
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 12, 2013 - 09:08am PT
Hang on Anxious and go easy on yoursf. sobriety has its challenges, but its soooooo worth it!
Stevee B

Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
Jul 12, 2013 - 06:53pm PT
Please hang in there. At 23 years, I can tell you it gets soooooo much better. And it does get easier.
I know some people in San Diego. In fact I might know a really good dude who climbs and is solid in the program. Want me to ping him for you?
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 12, 2013 - 06:59pm PT
Just hit 3 weeks, might even make it to a month chip.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jul 13, 2013 - 12:15am PT
Awesome! Replace that "might" with "WILL!" - Keep it up. One day at a time if you can, one minute at a time if you can't.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 13, 2013 - 12:20am PT
got it vegas, thanks!
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 13, 2013 - 01:46am PT
Right on S.Leeper! It's a good thing you are doing.
It will pay divdends. Soberity is a good long term investment.
Spiritually fit these days and lovin' every minute.
All the best to ya. Sending good vibes your way.

Plaid
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jul 13, 2013 - 06:46am PT
hey there say, all...

wow, keep up the great work...

you and your loved ones will one day, look back, and be so very
glad... :) hard now, perhaps, but any 'field work' at first is...
the crops and fruitful harvest will be worth the 'battle'...

:)
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 17, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
Thanks for the encouragement Plaidman!!

Got my 30 day chip today : )
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 18, 2013 - 04:18am PT
Yay SLeeper!! Good work and many more to come!
Baron Weasel

Trad climber
England
Jul 18, 2013 - 04:43am PT
I've always liked a bit of a drink, but loosing my dad at the start of June I then spent a month drowning myself with booze. I knew I was doing it to dull my central nervous system, to take away the pain in my heart.

4 weeks to the day after loosing him I decided to knock it on the head, after all what is the point to life if you can't even remember it? I'm at 18 days now and beginning to get into the sobriety trip. I stopped smoking tobacco at the same time which is another monkey off my back, although I am maintaining my relationship with the holy herb (for better or worse?).

Peace out peep's, look after yourselves and live life to the full - it can be amazingly beautiful!

Baron Weasel x
perswig

climber
Jul 18, 2013 - 07:57am PT
Proud work, S.Leeper.
Don't look back.

Dale
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 18, 2013 - 11:33am PT
Right on! S.Leeper Keep it up. You deserve all the benefits that are coming your way. It does take a bit of time to wade through the crap but it is sooooo worth the fight.

Got a sponsor? Reading The Big Book? Doing the 12 Steps? That's what's required for the change to happen to get the craving to die. That's why it's one day at a time. It takes time to get all that done. Keep going to meetings. Your doing great. Your the best.

Plaid
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jul 18, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
Encouragment to all of you battling the devil on your shoulder. One day at a time, one mile at a time...

Inch by inch,
Life's a cinch.
Yard by yard,
It's mighty hard.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 18, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
Wow, so much great support here.

Yes Plaid, I have a sponsor and my book is the green one, which I am half way through. I am getting close to doing my first step at my meeting.

You are great too! Thanks Jaybro and Perswig too!
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 18, 2013 - 07:30pm PT
S.Leeper I hope to get to climb with ya sometime. I'll be in Yosemite the end of Sept and the WHOLE month of Oct. I am currently in PDX. Give a shout and we'll tie in and get something done!

Plaid
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 19, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
I would love to climb with you Plaidman, but I'm in Texas with no plans to hit the west coast for at least a year.
losbill2

climber
Jul 19, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
Hey Terrie, Sounds like the wedding was a drag. Wish I had been there to keep you company. You must have been having a down day. Given the bright, interesting and outgoing woman you are I'm sure if you we not feeling yourself otherwise you would have thawed that bunch up a bit!!! Are you at the Gunks? I haven't been down yet this season. As the weather here in the Northeast has permitted I have been up in New Hampshire working the slabs and cracks preparing for my trip to Toulumne at the end of August. See you in September. Bill
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 22, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
S.Leeper well a year gives us plenty of time to plan something really cool.

Plaid
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Jul 22, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
Plaidman and S.Leeper, Soberfest!?
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 22, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
Sounds like a real possibility, I'll be in touch!
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 22, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
y'all sprint to the finish,
i'll crawl.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 22, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
Weegy, I'm crawlin' right beside you, bro!
justinp

Trad climber
Three Rivers, Ca
Jul 24, 2013 - 02:30am PT
Been lurking in the darkness. Never wanting to chine in for my own reasons. Periodically checking this thread after a good hangover. I have always had the taste for hops so it made excuses at first, "you just moved to town, nobody wants climb with you after work or on the weekends, just have a beer. How about one or maybe six more?" Seemed appropriate at the time... As I gained the few partners that were mostly unavailable due to the family life I continued to interject my reasoning. Finish a climb in SEKI, thinking wow that was runout give me a beer, or the often repeated "lets go climbing tomorrow, but I drank too much the night before, so lets take it easy..." Fast forward, I meet a lady friend who will actually belay me and climb hard to. Yet here I sit empty with a Courtright trip in front of me for the weekend, and I am over it. Guess what I am saying crawling is fine by me to.

What up Plaid - come down to SEKI!

The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jul 24, 2013 - 02:42am PT
Why is it that alcoholism is the only disease that you get yelled at for having?
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jul 24, 2013 - 10:45am PT
justinp Good to hear from ya. I am a lighter brighter better Plaid. Just lost 40 pounds since Feb. I still owe ya for the harness you sold me. It don't fit no more. Want it back?

Where are you?

I will be in Yosemite for the Facelift in Sept. and then the whole month of Oct. I will be sending like a fiend.

edit:
Looked up Seki

Is this it?
http://www.nps.gov/seki/index.htm
Plaid
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 24, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
alcoholism is not my addiction and I get yelled at plenty.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 24, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
Plaid congrats on losing 40lbs!!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 25, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
Bump for any addicts out there that might be struggling.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jul 26, 2013 - 02:57am PT
Just a thought for the day on finding all those reasons to pick up...


Justification and moralization is like masturbation - in the end you're just f*#king yourself.

Stay strong out there gang! We can do this sobriety thing.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 30, 2013 - 12:45am PT
words of wisdom vegasclimber!

Just met with my new sponsor today and went to my meeting. What a great

Monday.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jul 30, 2013 - 01:01am PT
Justification and moralization is like masturbation - in the end you're just f*#king yourself.

Bad analogy.
Kenygl

Trad climber
Salt Lake City
Jul 30, 2013 - 10:35am PT
After any real length of sobriety which is accompanied by a relapse, slip, loss of faith, loss of hope, etc there is always that little gremlin on your wing f*#kin' with you. As James McMurtry sings, "I don't want another drink, I only want that last one again". Hang close to your tribe Hank, they'll love you until you love yourself.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 31, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
keepin' this on the front page.

I'm struggling a bit.
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Jul 31, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
4 years this month.
How in the hell did that happen?

Grateful for every morning and every minute.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 31, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
thanks eKat!

Way to go BergBryce!!!
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Jul 31, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
I'm with ya S.Leeper. Working hard to stay sober today, to stay the course to that next milestone: a 60 day chip. Some days its just really difficult. I thought that this far into it my spirits might have risen a bit, but I'm just feeling flat-lined emotionally....enough so to think, what's the point?

Today I took another step, a step outside of my AA friends, and sought some medical advice. Didn't realize how many barriers there are to climb over to get that kind of access. Luckily I still have some sense of persevering through the difficulties and unknowns and got my foot in the door. Gonna lead to an appointment with this , and another with that, before they open the door, but from what the long term sober people tell me, it will all be worth it.

Holding on to see the promises come true. My grip gets a bit slippery and fatigued, but I'm holding on.....
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 2, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
bump. much love going into the weekend!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 2, 2013 - 09:16pm PT
Been a rough week 'round these parts. Very glad I'm on the 100% Tart Cherry juice/protein shake combo, instead of the bottle. No way I'd be able to cope with all this crap if I were still drinking.

nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Aug 2, 2013 - 09:35pm PT



Anxious Melancholy, S. Leeper, and everyone else that is struggling..
Much love and strength to you all!


be kind to yourselves..

saludos....best wishes.


S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 9, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
best wishes to you too, Nita.

felling very triggered today; it doesn't help that my wife has been out of town for 3 days.
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Aug 9, 2013 - 07:30pm PT
Hang in there, S.Leeper, it will keep getting better and easier. The results may seem small at first, but you build confidence and strength bit by bit and soon you will be looking back and wondering, "why did I do that to myself."

For everyone thinking of picking up, grab some paper and make a list of all of the things that you hold dear; spouse, career, kids, friends, sports, everything. Leave nothing out, and while you are at it make a list of all the things you are grateful for. Then realize that when you pick up a drink you will have to flush all of those things down the toilet. Stay strong, you all have my support and blessings.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 9, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
Thanks Edge!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 23, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
How are my sober brothers and sisters doing?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 23, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
Hanging tough over here, despite the overwhelming amount of stress. No interest in the bottle at all right now. Used to be the first thing I'd think of when times were hard (then again, when they were good too!)

My indulgences these days are 80+% dark chocolate, tart cherry juice, and the occasional crumbles of stilton, gorgonzola, or roquefort on my veggies.

Unbelievable to me really. This is easily the most stressful period I've ever been through and I'm not craving the booze. Progress I guess, but don't think I'll ever be able to say I've got it licked for good.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 23, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front me!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 23, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
Amen to that Bob!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 23, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
ECIYA: Great vices to have! My mouth is watering right now.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 23, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
No matter the dificulty, it can never be lessened by John B. Not if you're an alcoholic. It just makes it more worse, so the idea that drinking is an attractive option to stress is a total illusion for us. That's the insanity of the first drink. And I'm insane in that regards (and others), so I have to go to meetings all the time. The alternative is not sustainable and horrific.

JL
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Aug 23, 2013 - 11:36pm PT
Hey bergbryce, way to go!
Likewise to everyone else doing better for doing without.
Coming up on three years myself and can't believe how quick that happened!
I remind myself (and my friends) never's a long time and that I haven't made any promises and that seems to keep the pressure off.
It's just an extended beer sabbatical!

Thanks again Hankster for starting this important and helpful thread and all those with the courage to share and inspire.

PB
TwistedCrank

climber
Bungwater Hollow, Ida-ho
Aug 23, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
It's an awesome day to be sober.

My how time crawls on. 21 years, 2 months, 1 day, and a couple hours sober I've been now.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Aug 23, 2013 - 11:59pm PT
i can wonder.
if sobriety is a destination,
or is it merely a fleeting domain
within an alcoholic's boundless and beautiful journey?

i am not to suggest that the sober few
among us will relapse,
but instead i inquire if their arrival
at the edge of the cup is an achievement
upon which he/she can idle?
or is it that the scuttling feet have
temporarily landed dry suitors
a peaceful regard that will surely be soon sedated?

S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 24, 2013 - 12:04am PT
I think Largo summed it up nicely.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 24, 2013 - 12:21am PT
beautiful photo by Bill S

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 24, 2013 - 12:38am PT
I'm all in right now. 11 meetings in the last 72 hours. If I put a fraction of the energy into staying sober that I did getting and staying loaded...
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 24, 2013 - 12:45am PT
Way to go Bob!

Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Aug 24, 2013 - 02:29am PT
Nice job guys. Go for the imersion therapy.
That's what I did.
I am all in or all out.
It's just the way I'm built.

Hang in there Bob and Jebus. You are doing great!

Plaid
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 24, 2013 - 12:25pm PT
I made it through Teddy's death without picking up.

On about the third day, in desolation, a voice inside said "What in the hell - who CARES anymore. Maybe if I start drinking again, at least I will get invited to the weekend drinking parties around here and won't be alone. What DIFFERENCE does it make if I end up a drunken sot for the balance of my life?"

Luckily, I was at home, a good 2 miles away from the nearest drink(at the Brauhaus) and it didn't occur to me that I was only 2 miles away from a drink.

I succumbed to the sad, give-it-up feeling for just a few seconds before that same voice inside said "Well, you know damned well that you wouldn't feel any better if you were invited to each and every one of those parties. And you know damned well that a drunk life is going to end badly. At least you have a chance, if you don't drink."

And that was the end of that close enough call.

Still very sad about Teddy, of course. He was my constant companion for 13 years and more like a human best friend than a loyal dog. On the same night I had that "pour me" thinking, I woke up in the middle of the night to the thought of Teddy, tapping me on the shoulder(sort of) and excitedly telling me "next time, I'm going to be a BIG dog!"
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 24, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
Randisi, meetings help those of us who are constitionally incapable of living a sober life ourselves. Quitting the drink/drug in often the easiest part. Staying off a dry drunk is where the meetings come in. If you can stay free of resentments/judgements, and are joyous and free on your own, great. The rest of us need help, and enjoy the fellowship as well.

Bob, know that we're all proiud of you. Another bender can be disasterous.

JL
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 24, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
“Quitting smoking is easy, I've done it thousands of times.” -- Mark Twain

Recall that back in his time, there was no quitting alcohol. But I think the sentiment works for many of us too.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 24, 2013 - 02:56pm PT


Eleven meetings in three days? That's a dangerous amount of bad coffee! But good on ya for doing what it takes!!
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Aug 24, 2013 - 04:13pm PT
These last few months have been on and off for me. I have been bored, etc, blah blah reason. Now that I'm finding I have other goals and an actual desire to live, drinking seems so trivial to that andtoday at least, I'm not drinking. I like coming here to this thread. I have never liked meetings though, even when I had a few years before and was involved more. I'm sure I'll be making my way there shortly since I can't find much clarity at the beer store. I never thought I'd choose sobriety vs being compelled by no-other-choice disaster mode. My life is actually pretty good. This can only bring me closer to who I want to be.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 25, 2013 - 12:11am PT
Happie, sorry about your pooch and good job staying sober through it. As we all know drinking just makes the pain worse.. I know your BD is coming up real soon and it would suck to have to start all over...

I know how you feel about the critter. Lost a cat once to a fast moveing car. Held the dead cat in my arms and paced arround the house crying for about 8 hrs untill it got light out and the cat was cold and stiff with riamortis. My GF finally told me that it was time to put the kitty down so I dug a hole in his favorite sunny spot in the yard and burried him with a can of tuna and a squirle that he had just killed....... so sad. At least Teddy lived a full life and we all have to complete that cycle of life and death.... Stay strong!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 25, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
OH MY GOD! I totally forgot....My sober anniversary is TOMORROW, August 26th.

Ho man....thanks for reminding me. Wouldn't it have been terrible to completely have forgotten? I can't believe I WOULD have, had it not been for your post. So....today is the 17th anniversary of my last hangover, and tomorrow is 17 years from first day sober.



Thank you for the condolences for Teddy. I put a dog biscuit on the stone at his grave's head, and the next morning it was gone. Maybe there's something about the Chinese tradition of leaving food offerings.... Or maybe a squirrel got it. Either way, it was nice to go visit and have it gone.

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 25, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
Sobriety is an elusive goal for me.

It works for a while, then I get a weekend and I'm all 'Well, I'm going to the liquor store.'

Addiction is a cruel thing. Maybe some of you will say that I should just man up and send it. Well, it's not as easy as that. I hate it, yet I support it.

One of these days I'm going to make it work. I promise.

Props to those of you who have defeated the beast, my battle continues.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 25, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
I could not have done it without meetings and a great loving sponsor.It's not about toughing it out.Belief in a higher power(whatever that means to you), has made all the difference to me.

my meeting is tomorrow; can't wait! :-)
Stevee B

Trad climber
Oakland, CA
Aug 25, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
My favorite sponsor said two things to me every time we talked on the phone:
"Steve, I just need to remember where I came from and that I can't do it alone. That's all I need to do."
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Aug 25, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
Surrender, ARGH!

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 25, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
I'm not big on surrender, or the higher being, either. I just don't drink because my world runs better that way.

Oh and happy 'birthday' Terrie, and that other person too!!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 25, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
Way to go Terrie! Only three meetings today, I'm slackin'.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 25, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
Reason i remember happies BD is about now is because today is my 7th. My best drinking bud from Silverton has been in VT all summer and we have done a bunch of great climbs (and a few stinkers) Alex still hits it pretty good. I do the driveing and he does the drinking. i hit my seltzer pretty hard and and the ice cream but managed to stay clean though there were a few rough spots. Alex leaves for CO tomorrow and we had a pretty big day @ Poko yesterday. Lot of multi pitch climbing and a lot of driveing. Looong day but I pulled through. should be easy sailing for a spell;)
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 26, 2013 - 12:27am PT
Read the passage, "How it works," not as a suggestion, but as literal truth, because it is.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 26, 2013 - 10:54am PT
Let's NOT forget that the AA Big Book also says that it is "Progress, not perfection."

The only thing I think I've been able to do 100% right has been to not pick up that first drink. Oftentimes I think I have more in common with the newbie counting days than the long-time sober.

I still struggle - daily - with the most basic facets of life, like interacting with others, being able to foresee the consequences of my actions and inactions, the Steps. Oh yes, I struggle with the Steps. I do tend to believe there is quite a bit of grace in that thing which is sobriety. It allows us to blunder and stumble and still "be sober."


Today is my anniversary and today I am living with a realization of how a previous negligence of activity has compounded in a way that I look back at and say "HOW could you not have realized...???" It does not feel good. I had hoped I had "stopped digging" the hole I was in, but noooo....

And yet, here I am, sober.


10b4me

Ice climber
Wishes-He-Was-In-Arizona
Aug 26, 2013 - 11:00am PT
Good for you Terrie.
TwistedCrank

climber
Bungwater Hollow, Ida-ho
Aug 26, 2013 - 11:03am PT
Practice these principles in all our affairs.


Just sayin.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 26, 2013 - 11:36am PT
^ Followed in the Big Book - directly - with:
Many of us exclaimed, "What an order! I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 26, 2013 - 05:42pm PT
going to 2 meetings today because a brother from my noon meeting is doing his first step at the meeting tonight.

Higher power can be the collective consciousness of everyone in the meeting, doesn't have to be "god".
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 27, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
bump for sobriety!

Got to hear a first step last night and it brought a tear or two to my eye.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 27, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
Good point on the 'god thing' S. Leeper! I always bring it up to reassure non believers like my self that there are non-theist, esp non-christian ways to sobriety. I interpret what you and others say, about not pining down the"higherforce" as something along the lines of, don't deny yourself the help and benefits of AA because of a "god" sticking point!

And, I fully agree! I'd like to think we're getting at the same thing fom differing points of view; An important life lesson in general!

That said, this can be a hard time for me as well. Yesterday is not only a coue Tacos' birthday, it's also Lucille day, the anniversary of the Fa of a climb in 1988 that changed a lot of the way I view things, and shaped my climbing life afterwards. All three of these things give me confidence and strength. Coming off that, I'm always caught by surprise to be a little down on the 27th. And every year I have to go through a thought process and remember that it was this day in 1979 that my father died of pancreatic cancer at age 56. He's also responsible in many ways for where I am as a climber, we sort of learned to climb together.
It's a funny year this year, as its the first year that I've reached an age beyond what he lived to. On top of that is the ambient sadness of losing Blitzo so recently in such a similar way.
I'm not in danger of drinking today. I'm in Vedauwoo, climbed and ran this morning; now I'm armed with a big gulp and back up seltzer, to go scope out tomorrow's project and then grill some salmon.

The thing that sobriety does for me in all this. Is that I can take theses extremes of high and low, and experience them, sort them out, and order them in my life. Which works a lot better for me than being overwhelmed by each and trying to dull it down, in an effort to control the feelings, with alcohol.

There are times when you need to be happy, and times its appropriate to feel sad. That's the joy, of life!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 27, 2013 - 06:21pm PT
Thank you Jay for sharing your feelings here.

Alot of us addicts, have stuffed or sedated our feelings with drugs, booze, sex, or what have you, for so long, expressing how we feel can be a new experience.

Love you all!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 27, 2013 - 06:29pm PT
Today is a good day.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 27, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
That's great, Bob!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 27, 2013 - 09:55pm PT
Writing out my first step right now and it is kicking my ass.

I'm having trouble piecing together 2 sober days in a row.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 28, 2013 - 01:11am PT
Thanks Chief
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 28, 2013 - 01:11am PT
It's a new day and a good one at that.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 28, 2013 - 02:33am PT
They tell you "don't make any major decisions in your first year." Has anybody read the third step?! Then they tell you "don't make any major changes in your first year", then five minutes later they say "you gotta change everything!" They say "don't judge anybody in AA" then in the next breath they say "stick with the winners!" WTF, I LOVE this shit!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 28, 2013 - 04:46am PT
haha ain't it the truth
TwistedCrank

climber
Bungwater Hollow, Ida-ho
Aug 28, 2013 - 10:25am PT
The program - any good program really - is filled with paradoxes and contradictions.

If pondering them keeps you from drinking, then the program was - is - a success.
Kenygl

Trad climber
Salt Lake City
Aug 28, 2013 - 11:27am PT
What it takes is a clear mind. Something which folks reading the literature for the first times rarely possesses. Stick around, it gets better.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 28, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
rough day, serenity prayer time.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 28, 2013 - 05:38pm PT
Been on a dry drunk all day. TIme for some 11th step (meditation)

JL
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 28, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
How is the leg, John?
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Aug 28, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
Ah yes, Step 11.

Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

It's the only step that I took out of order. I mean, once you acknowledge that there is a higher power, and that YOU are not it, why wait to strike up a conversation? I'm not even talking religion, but more about spirituality. As climbers, it is easy to find magic in nature, to admit that the order of the Universe trumps our poor, pitiful existence, and that we are really insignificant in the "big picture."

Meditating in nature was key for this alcoholic, and helps put things in perspective. I have done this for 3+ years now every day, without fail, in the sun, rain, or snow. In fact I actually prefer the inclement weather, and for those who question me I will often relay the quote, "Those who think sunshine brings happiness have never danced in the rain."

The concept of a "higher power" stops many from progressing, but as has been mentioned, you can use the collective consciousness of the group, or temporarily even an old timer who has what you want. Just don't limit yourself to these things as you progress, you should always strive to move forward, even when your goal of sobriety is reached.

As an aside, I once listened to some wretched, tortured soul in an AA meeting tell her story. She had 10 years at the time, but purely from willpower and attending several meetings a day for all those years; she was unable to evolve past this existence. She relayed how in rehab someone had suggested to her that the lightbulb in the ceiling could be her higher power, and insisted that this worked for her. I couldn't help but wonder what would happen should the lightbulb burn out...

And a mentor once shared this with me about willpower: "Have you ever had diarrhea? Try to use willpower against that and let me know how that works out for you."

No matter where you are in your sobriety, day one or year twenty, you must always reach for something more. There will be ups, downs, successes, and setbacks, but if you accept them as life and deal with them all rationally and without needing to pick up, you are healing.

I love this thread, it's the only "meeting" I have attended for the last year and a half. It's my conscious contact that makes the foundation for everything else to build off of.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 28, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
And a mentor once shared this with me about willpower: "Have you ever had diarrhea? Try to use willpower against that and let me know how that works out for you."

excellent example
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 28, 2013 - 07:04pm PT
Anybody else checked out Blum and Loughan's The Healing Runes? It's the sh#t. I pull a rune every morning to start my day. Using all the tricks right now.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 28, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
I'm like the Jeebs. This thread is my only "meeting". Don't cotton to organizations in general.

But whatever works for you, do it. The AA seems to work wonders for some, just not my thing.

Found out earlier this week that my cousin, a close childhood friend, died of a drug induced heart attack last year at age 40 (yeah, WTF? They're just telling me this now?). 20 years of meth will do that to you.

I always hoped he'd pull it together someday, he had 3 little boys...well I guess one is out of high school by now, so not so little anymore. In and out of jail, on and off the ice, dealing, stealing, the whole nine. What a waste.

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 29, 2013 - 12:02am PT
Perhaps someday in the distant future the day will arrive when I can taper off, but for now I need a steady diet of meetings and the program. Besides, in Flag AA is a social scene where I already know half the people. The party scene here has produced quite a few casualties.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 29, 2013 - 12:16am PT
That seems like a pretty good place to be, Bob...not Flag (I hate those #$%^& trains! never get good sleep in Flag), but knowing what you need and doing it. Dedication and self-knowledge, good tools indeed.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Aug 29, 2013 - 01:19am PT
if you really screw up, you will end up in the streets with no money to buy drinks unless you beg along side the freeway,

best to fix the problem before you hit that kind of bottom,

drewsky

climber
Seattle
Aug 29, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
Reading through this thread has been extremely informative. As someone with relatively mild but still undeniably present alcohol issues, it offers a lot of good information about the spectrum of problems that can result and about how the 'relatively mild' can rapidly change. Food for thought for anyone who drinks moderately but still acknowledges having the occasional binging problem.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Aug 29, 2013 - 05:28pm PT
not an alcoholic here, other issues.

Good to hear your friend is on the right track, Matt.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 29, 2013 - 05:52pm PT
Bets of luck to your drummer friend, Matt.

My sister emailed me last week that her oldest son (24 or so) voluntarily went to rehab. I saw him in May and it was so sad to see another generation in my family being afflicted with alcoholism. Hes got it good. I sent her a note with a message to relay. Let's hope E can do it - it must kill a mother to see their child succumbing.....
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 31, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
Another excellent adventure. The blessings keep Rollin in!
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Aug 31, 2013 - 05:40pm PT
As some others have said, while not an alcoholic, I get ALOT of info from this thread about fighting demons.
Thanks...

Susan
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Sep 1, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
I agree that the things that help alcoholics maintain sobriety can be translated to many an issue and help very well.

S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Sep 1, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
I'd prefer to the specifics of my add. private on the taco; but like Happie said, the AA precepts have helped with my addiction as well.

Just pointing out there are many faces of addiction.

Climb on brothers and sisters!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Sep 1, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
good point Chief. Regardless of my addiction, I very much appreciate your support and everyone else on this thread.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Sep 2, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
Woke up without a hangover this morning. Jesus wept! So f*#kin good. Didn't even have to puke to get the first drink down. YES!!
Yeti

Trad climber
Ketchum, Idaho
Sep 2, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
This from an unpublished essay I wrote more than 10 years ago. Keep on keepin' on.......

For the next several years I battled my demons and lived in several places in California, Nevada and Idaho and watched more of my life unravel and more of the people I love most turn away, fall away, go away and, in some cases, stay away...... And, then, somehow (that ‘somehow’ being the basis of hope in the world), I was able to turn it around, to change direction (from down to up and begin dealing with life on its own terms). At approximately 11:40 p.m. January 31, 1987, I was sitting in the kitchen of a house where I was living in Albany, California. I was quite drunk. I did something I had been planning and promising myself for two months. I reached into the refrigerator and opened a bottle of Rainier Ale, affectionately known as “green death.” I drank it with relish and appreciation. When I was finished, just before midnight, I put the bottle in the garbage, brushed my teeth, turned out the lights and went to bed. February 1, 1987 was going to be an entirely new day for me.
It was the last drink, the last ‘recreational’ drug. It is tempting to add “I ever had,” but even fifteen years later is not ‘ever’ or ‘forever.’ If it hadn’t been the last drink I probably wouldn’t be here. I certainly wouldn’t be writing this..... It was the last drink. That much I can say. I consider myself lucky beyond measure.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Sep 3, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
had a great, serene weekend. tomorrow makes a week for me.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Sep 8, 2013 - 11:02am PT
30 days today. W00t!!!
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Sep 8, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Nice work Bob!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Sep 11, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
3 meetings this week, god knows I've needed them.

S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Sep 20, 2013 - 09:27pm PT
Here's a great monologue from Craig Ferguson:
http://www.upworthy.com/talk-show-host-makes-all-other-hosts-look-absurd-during-devastating-monologue?c=ufb1

Doing a group share of my 1st step on Monday. Lots of emotions going through my head right now.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 20, 2013 - 09:50pm PT
If you really want it you CAN do it! the trick is to really want it......

pretty awsome being sober INMOP:) Glad that i did all that crazy stuff when i was younger. A massive hangover or two builds charecter as long as you grow out of it in time.... Just like prize fighting you Got to get out while you are ahead. old fighters and old drunks do not age well......
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Sep 20, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
Great job Bob!!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Oct 4, 2013 - 07:46pm PT
how are my brothers and sisters?
Edge

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 4, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
39 months and the blessings keep rolling in. Stay strong , everyone!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Oct 4, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
way to go folks!
Edge

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 4, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
Jebus, that's awesome!
10b4me

Ice climber
Bishop/Flagstaff
Oct 4, 2013 - 09:00pm PT
Congratulations Edge, and Jebus.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Oct 5, 2013 - 01:58am PT
60 days on the 8th, sw0le!!! Felling profoundy BITCHIN!!!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 5, 2013 - 05:13am PT
Good Job!
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Oct 5, 2013 - 05:19am PT
hey there say, sorry i have not checked in here in a long time...

wow, so very happy to hear all this great news!!!

keep up the great work, and keep on enjoying the new fresh things,
along the way!!!


wow! to each and every one of you... dial up, you know so:
i am not taking time to name you all, i might get 'disconnected'
sooooo, the wow, goes to THE WHOLE BUNCH OF YOU!!!

thanks for posting your victories!

and for any back further, that i did not see that are struggling:
IT IS possible, as, others have made it... you can too...

:)
TwistedCrank

climber
Bungwater Hollow, Ida-ho
Oct 5, 2013 - 10:08am PT
Looks like today is going to be another good day to be sober.

Thanks folks!
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Oct 5, 2013 - 11:06am PT
sobriety is never off topic if you open this door. all things good start there.
jt698

Social climber
Santa Monica, CA
Oct 5, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
Four months sober for me. My wife and I have found we can explore the wilderness and do fun things or drink ourselves silly. Sucks we can't do both. I hate explaining why I can't have just one glass of wine or beer over and over.

I think hankster taught the guy that took me on my first jump to BASE jump. Assuming there is only one and based on the stories I think there is only one--small world.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 5, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
7+yrs clean and sober. No meetings , no doctrin, no one telling me how i have to do it. If I can earn a 4th dan and lead WI5 I have the will power to do most things I seriously set my sights on. not real big on being told what to do and how to think....
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 5, 2013 - 08:46pm PT
so now if i don't do what the man says and follow HIS rules i am garuenteed to fall off the wagon, get in a car wreck and kill someone? Nice.....
Sounds like a really sweet bunch all high and mighty with their gallons of coffee and cigeretts..Whatever
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Oct 5, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
The AA vs not argument is about as useful as a bolting argument. People will do what they will do.

Many ways are valid. Many aren't. Let's please keep politics and suggestelling somewhere else, from both sides, and just be supportive of each other. Remember, one drunk talking to another and all that..

Thanks.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 5, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
Sorry. I just get riled when folks try to shove their religion down my throat. I got my own religion to contend with...
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Oct 5, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
this drunk sick fk

yes chief, you pretty much nailed who you are. your also an an arrogant as#@&%e who believes he knows everything and lets everyone know that.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Oct 5, 2013 - 09:50pm PT
I'm not pointing fingers. I understand both sides.

She's posted of FB lately and seems ok.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Oct 5, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
booze is like LSD, do very little not very often and it can be ok,

do a lot everyday and welcome to a huge nightmare,

if 1 leads to 100, then none is best,

everything in moderation and moderation is the first to go,

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Oct 5, 2013 - 10:40pm PT
im only part human.
my show is compromised.
silentone

Mountain climber
wisconsin
Oct 7, 2013 - 02:55am PT
Hey, can someone explain the concept of a "dry drunk",
I'm in the I need to cut down but can still enjoy a few beers now and again fantasy. I can still funtion (funtional alcoholic) and sometimes I get scared at how good I feel after days of not drinking. Then I think to much and can't get out of my own way.Is this drinking thinking?
Hope Terrie is alright.
Peace and serenity to you all.
Love S.O.
(Paul)

Edge

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 8, 2013 - 09:48pm PT
Silentone, if you ask at an AA meeting they will describe a dry drunk as someone who manages not to drink by sheer willpower and by not working their program. In reality, many programs and approaches can be effective, but you have to do something to address the deeper problems. Excessive drinking is just a symptom of alcoholic behavior, which effects us mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. If you merely don't drink and carry on with the rest of your life in exactly the same way expecting different results, you are a "dry drunk." Einstein would say you are insane, and I would tend to agree.

I used AA heavily for my first year of real sobriety (I had been going off and on for 5 years prior) and only when I and others began seeing significant progress in my mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual growth did I stop attending traditional AA meetings in favor of other avenues that help me continue to grow as a "spiritual being in a human body." I'm not too proud to say that should the need arise I would return to the meetings in a heartbeat for the exceptional support that can be found there. To date it has been over two years without attending a meeting, but I continue to work a different program that works for me and allows me to continue my evolution. This thread is a nice supplement to that.

It also helps me to remember my last drunk, which was similar to the first time I had sex. I was alone and in the dark, and there's no need to ever go back there...

Cheers.

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 9, 2013 - 12:24am PT
Well said, Edge. Thanks
Edge

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 9, 2013 - 01:39am PT
Jim, I read your two posts carefully a couple of times and I'm still not sure what you are saying.

I will add as clarification that for me personally, when I refer to spirituality, I am not referring to religion. Rather it is a way of life where I continually strive to be the best person that I can be, evolving constantly and moving forward. I am far from perfect, but I keep running it out on lead towards that elusive summit.

Nature plays a huge part in this, as does love of family and friends. I would never want to subject them to me as a drunk again, but more importantly I don't want to do that to myself. If I have a foundation in the 12 & 12, it is just that, a firm footing from which I build off everyday. AA helps many, and I try to offer support without preaching to whomever needs it and wants help, no matter what "program" they choose to work. It is not up for me to judge another in any way, but I am always willing to offer a spot or a soft catch if asked, judgement free.

Cheers.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 9, 2013 - 02:24am PT
Edge, you've hit on an important point.

I think the issue of spirituality is far more important than the issue of religion.

I have, on many occasions, seen supposedly recovering people using their religion as a shield from being spiritual, particularly with respect to other people.

There can also be an issue of boundaries, where a religious person manifests their religiosity through attempts at conversion.....almost always unwelcome.
silentone

Mountain climber
wisconsin
Oct 9, 2013 - 03:52am PT
Thanks for the insight Edge.
That makes alot of sense to me.
It is a great day.
Silent one
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 9, 2013 - 07:09am PT
I find that those who preach the loudest about their religion are almost always the ones who are the farthest from spirituality and /or the teachings of their own religion.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 9, 2013 - 08:33am PT
Bingo
Edge

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Nov 1, 2013 - 12:44am PT
Great news, Jebus! Keep it up !
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Nov 1, 2013 - 12:50am PT
Way to send Jebus!!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Nov 1, 2013 - 07:03am PT
Great job jebus. it gets a lot easier from here!
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Nov 1, 2013 - 07:29am PT
just shy of a month for me,
life has been stable, though
incredibly mundane.

two thumbs-a-twiddlin, laudy-da.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Nov 1, 2013 - 09:27am PT
Holy Jebus, Jebus nice work!

You too, Norge
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Nov 1, 2013 - 10:05am PT
Happy anniversary Jebus.



I AM okay. What happened was.... I got a job.

Seriously, I did get a job at the Mohonk Preserve doing the trailhead assistant thing, and was working 4 and 5 days a week all day, with no internet connection except for 20 minutes or so a few days a week. During which, it was all I could do to check emails and keep up with my business ventures.

When I saw the "where's Terrie" post, I looked back and see it had been an entire month off ST...didn't realize that, and time does fly when you're....at work all day.


The *good* news is that I am done for the season, and will likely be online WAY too much for the next few months. I am doing a house sit in NY just a few miles from where I was, so won't be to JT this winter.

Sorry for causing any worry. It HAS been tough, missing Teddy. I had spent so much time just hanging out with him, and now there are big chunks of time that are left unfilled, and unfulfilled. But, I haven't thought about drinking.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 1, 2013 - 11:41am PT
Keep after it weeg. I'm sure you will find certain parts "mundane", but if you watch and listen and "feel" closely, you will also find more subtle parts getting sweeter.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Nov 1, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
Basicly i thought drinking was boreing. It was exciteing when i was a teenager and maybe into my early twentys but after that it was just something you did every day.
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Nov 1, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
man it is so good on this side, stay in the blessing stream
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Nov 2, 2013 - 01:29am PT
Great post Edge.

My trail has been somewhat similar - I spent two years as a dry drunk before going to a meeting. I used AA a lot for the next few years, and then took a different path. Try as I might, I couldn't find a home or meeting that didn't have tons of drama attached. Drama isn't good for me, as I tend to get wrapped up in it although I hate it. I'm still working on that these days.

Basically I have just been concentrating on becoming a better person, every day. I volunteer, I help people, I think beyond myself. I'm honest about my issues and try to improve them. I know it's going to take a long time to be a good human being, but the last few years I have been growing by leaps and bounds, and I'm happy with myself and my life now. About 13 and a half years sober, and thankful for every day. Like you I wouldn't hesitate to go to a meeting if I needed the support, but it's been about 6 years since my last one.

Jebus and Weeg, major grats to both of you. Keep it up, it's inspiring to me and many others I'm sure.
perswig

climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 07:54am PT
Shine on, you crazy diamonds.

Dale
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Nov 17, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
It's getting to be that time of year again.... Remember:

Alcoholism is a threefold disease; Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's Eve.

Stay in touch with sober others, don't get too Hungry, Angry, Lonely or Tired, and when you are at those family events and holiday bashes - always keep a drink in your hand. A non-alcoholic drink, that is!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Nov 18, 2013 - 07:49am PT
Stuffing your face helps but not so good for the climbing weight;)
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Nov 27, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
Happy Thanksgiving, and stay sober, Supertopo friends!

I'll be at home tomorrow, and am making a small special meal. Will check in and be available for those who want a sober connection.

Edge

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Nov 28, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
Bump and well wishes for anyone who needs them.

Stay strong, sober Tacoans!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 9, 2013 - 06:22am PT
Hope everyone is doing well.
Edge

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 13, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
Big milestone for me today. The last vestige of the State of New Hampshire's long arm of the law was a court ordered mandate to have an interlock breathalyzer installed for one year after regaining my driving privileges. After three years of not driving it was worth it, but having to blow into the damned thing to start my truck, then again 3-5 minutes later, and then randomly every 15 minutes or so thereafter was a major pain in the arse.

I did this every time I got in the Tundra, including my 10K mile cross country road trip pulling a large RV. Somehow the device always demanded that I blow during the most in opportune times, like while cornering, merging, navigating single width canyon roads, or during ice patches, but out of necessity I made my peace with it long ago. Acceptance works wonders.

So right now I am sitting in the sun on a bench outside of Whole Foods with the Flatirons and Front Range wearing their dusting of Winter whites as the guys at Car Toys remove that device. Soon I can focus on just driving without interruption, can let my truck idle and warm up while not sitting in the seat, and not paying the $65/month service fees.

It's a great day to be sober.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Dec 13, 2013 - 02:06pm PT
Hard to believe it's been over three years already.
I'm not making any promises: never is a long time but; it's way better here than where I've been.
Thanks for this thread Hankster and to everyone who contributes to make this one I come back to regularly for a little maintenance and inspiration.
Best wishes to all for safe travels through the perils of the holiday season.

PB
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 13, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
Congratulations Edge. I wonder if you're going to feel like you're forgetting something when driving for a while, or if you'll quickly adapt to the change.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 13, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
Congrats Edge! I'm sure you're glad to get rid of That, thing!

......Though my understanding is that $65/ is a bargain for these types of units ;)
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 13, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
^Maybe your Significant Other thought your drinking was a problem you would never recognize, and was lacing your meals with Antabuse?



KIDDING!!!! Really! The thought just occurred to me, and seemed sort of funny.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 13, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
Good job everyone!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 28, 2013 - 10:43am PT
hope everyone is doing ok.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Dec 31, 2013 - 11:45am PT
only because im in love with the challenge
am i still on the damn wagon.

someday, when staying on the wagon becomes innate,
i'll reorganize situations prompting
the seizure of my bearings.
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Dec 31, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
I've posted this quote earlier but they say the wagon is just a vehicle from one binge to another.
For many of us, measured consumption is beyond our ability and total abstinence an easier and safer road.
I've made no promises because never is a long time.
Just for today.

Thanks again to Hankster and all who post here for my favourite ST thread and best wishes to all for quality living in the new year!

PB
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Dec 31, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
lets be cool on amateur night,

you can hear local police on internet scanners if you want to listen to those still suffering, kind of sadistic, but hey, whatever works,

or have your own private meeting, here ya go,

we will open the meeting with a moment of silence for those still suffering....followed by the serenity prayer...







oh Great Spirit, grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change,

the courage to change things that i can,

and the wisdom to know the difference...

Climbers Anonymous® is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for CA membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. CA is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.


any climbers here for there first meeting?

any climbers celebrating a birthday for December?

welcome all you newcomers and happy birthday to the birthday climbers

i've asked dr. sprock to read How It Works...

hi, Dr.Sprock here, full time drunkered...



How it works

RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided that you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps.

At some of these we balked. We thought that we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.

Remember that we deal with alcohol - cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power - that One is God. May you find him now.

Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon.
Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Many of us exclaimed, "What an order! I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we were willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.

Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:

(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.

(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.

(c) That God could and would if He were sought.

thank you dr. sprock,

I've asked Norwegian to read The 12 Traditions...


The 12 Traditions


1. Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon C.A. unity.

2. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority - a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.

3. The only requirement for C.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.

4. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or C.A. as a whole.

5. Each group has but one primary purpose-to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

6. An C.A. group ought never endorse, finance
or lend the C.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.

7. Every C.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.

8. Climbers Anonymous should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.

9. C.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.

10. Climbers Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the C.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.

11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.

12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.

thank you Norwegian...

i have asked the Hankster to read The Promises

hello, i am the Hankster...here are the promises...

THE PROMISES


If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through.

We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.

We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.

We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.

No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.

That feeling of uselessness and selfpity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.

Self-seeking will slip away.

Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.

Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.

We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.

We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

We will climb better and more safely.

We will get home in one piece.

Are these extravagant promises?

We think not.

They are being fulfilled among us—sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them.

ok, the meeting is open....
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Dec 31, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
hank by my own bible
a nip off the witch's tit
don't compromise my mission.
hell i've a 30 pack of beer sitting
in my shed gathering dust
and it will continue to until
i reach my mark of 1 year
(mostly) dry.

i whetted my tongue
with a mist of whiskey,
that's all and i've no regrets.
absolutism has no ownership
in my truths.

but thanks for noticing.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Dec 31, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
nobody is taking your inventory Weege, sounds like you are doing good,

try for 1 second, 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day,

don't worry about the 1 year thing,

i use to drink 1 beer at a time, then i would pour a 4 pack of ginny draught in a picture and polish it in about 15 minutes, how cool is that?

then a Steinlager tall boy, a P.U. tall boy and a shot of Jose,

then a drunken race back to the store at 1:50 A.M. for a nite cap, usually a Becks tall boy or maybe an Anchor Steam,

would see my liver drinking a cup of coffee the next day saying "you as#@&%e!"



Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 31, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
absolutism has no ownership
in my truths

I don't think it's YOUR truths you needs to be concerned about. You might want to think about why you're not drinking and what her truth is.

No booze here, no desire for any. Funny that I can't rember whether I'm winding down year 3 or year 4 of being off the sauce...just looked back in the thread, got 3 years, 9 months, 5 days.

If I can do it, anybody can.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 31, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
The last thing I want or need is a drink, even though I am fending off some depressive feelings. It's utterly amazing to me to know that I intuitively understand (as they say in the Big Book) that alcohol will not relieve me of facing reality. For me, the easier softer way(again, AA) truly is to not have that first drink.

Happy New Years Everybody!
Edge

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
My sobriety date is easy to remember, it was my 49th birthday, July 1, 2010.

New Years Day is exactly 6 months after, so tomorrow will be 3 years, 6 months to the day.

Grateful. Very very grateful.
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Dec 31, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
Just celebrated 29 years a little over a week ago. Never in my wildest dreams did I think life could be so grand. Keep doing the deal folks. The promises are but the beginning.

Burly Bob
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 31, 2013 - 04:58pm PT
Great time of year for this thread eh?
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Dec 31, 2013 - 05:42pm PT
a good coffee buzz or maybe some red bull,

beats starting the new year off with a vicious 3 day hangover,

waking up to some stupid parade on TV with a splitting headache was so depressing,
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Dec 31, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
Good timing, thanks for the honest courage. I've no more time for self hatred. I'm looking forward to the new year. Keep breathing and watch your feet.
Jumpingfish

Social climber
Dec 31, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
78 days for me haven't had a drink since oct 13 I have not been to a meeting either. I just decided one day that enough is enough. and I quit.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Dec 31, 2013 - 11:00pm PT
jumping jack flash
that's the exact date of my departure!
october 13.
i guess im 78 days clean
except for won slip up
when i found myself amongst
a situation that necessitated
a slight breach.

i turn 40 on october 4th, 2014
so i plan to, in the next year,
find the proper ale to raise
on that occasion.

im weigh into ceremony and such.
im thinking fire in the mountains
after a day climbing and then
raising a beer to 4 decades of folly.

im drooling thinking about it....

[Click to View YouTube Video]
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 1, 2014 - 01:01am PT
8th sober new years:) Still stayed up too late though....
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Jan 1, 2014 - 01:05am PT
hard to tell someone not to drink, it is a personal decision,

some folks have to get beat up pretty good before they get it,

wife gone, kids gone, house gone, job gone, license gone, car gone, money gone, maybe a little time pissing in a steel toilet, you get me?

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 1, 2014 - 08:17am PT
Just read this on facebook.
"I had to quit drinking cause it makes me pregnant"
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 1, 2014 - 09:33am PT
Here's to waking up this morning not feeling like hell and remembering how we got home last night!

I even stayed up till midnight, listening to fireworks from the Mohonk Mountain House ticking in the new year.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jan 11, 2014 - 12:42am PT
f*#kin off, getting wasted:
a convenient method of torquing your vices,
casting your tranquility out into a sea of disease,
and then reeling it back in to find it each time,
less in emotional mass.

and then you begin to leave your tranquility put;
casting instead yourself out into the torment.
swimming amongst poisons and ailments and pain and sorrows;
fears and regrets.

for me, drinking was always a means to put myself
in a weakened position from which i must crawl back.

i enjoy bounds. i search for my low threshold,
just to tease what i am made of.
i even like to extend myself as far beyond
my learned capacity as my insanity-sanity
modulus will allow.

for me life ain't right unless i am constantly
struggling to re-achieve my status-quo comfort.

i've abandoned this path of booze for the time well.
i don't know for how long,
i have promised myself a year,
and it is going well.

i now achieve my inter-personal thrashings
via my engineering career, my tree-surgeries / amputations,
my child rearing efforts, my rock clawing dreams;
and all of these tried mediums beat me well,
that i must crawl back from each thorough experience.

i stay tied to a life for roughly four year cycles.
then i upset it, drastically.

my marriage and family have endured this variability of mine.
they have even transcended my habits and will continue to
because a family ain't a career and thus cannot be toyed with.

but sanity ain't a family and thus shall be eternally upset.

for now my cup remains dry.
though i imagine drunk as well
or even better than it's stark reality.


anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Jan 11, 2014 - 08:00am PT
Norwegian: you seem like a really intense guy...

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jan 11, 2014 - 08:40am PT
thank you dean.

i maintain myself such that
when two choices entertain me,
i am equipped to chose and
carry out the more difficult one.
growing up in and maintaining a home in
the mountains has taught me this credential.

anita dear i present online
in a much skewed theatre.

in warm skin i am very shy, reserved and a little awkward.
as far as my intensity,
that is all on the inside.
im super dopey about my tangible business,
mostly in a state of such stupor
that my friends won't let me blaze the weed
because they tell me that i am already there.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Jan 11, 2014 - 10:56am PT
I can dig it
I am shy too
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Jan 24, 2014 - 10:44pm PT
1 week no alcamahol.
Yay me!
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 24, 2014 - 10:47pm PT
hey there say, ... just stopped by to say--keep up the great work...

so many things to do, to fill 'a different' cup...

cup of knowledge, etc...


our family, my folks, taught us moderation, so we were fortunate...
i thank god for my folks doing this... it kept a very bad hard battle from
us... well, for me... (as, i was not home when my brothers were younger, so i don't know their stories--i was married and in south texas, then)...


god bless and happy good eve to you all...

so many names, to names, blessings to you all, and your wonderful goals...
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Jan 24, 2014 - 11:14pm PT
Still in the game since 7/5/1985. Willing to share the wealth-

Plaid
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Feb 4, 2014 - 07:07am PT
here's to pissing on the sun.
that f*#ker is hot,
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:27am PT
One reminder I give myself is there isn't anything that a drink won't make worse.

Plaid
TwistedCrank

climber
Bungwater Hollow, Ida-ho
Feb 4, 2014 - 01:17pm PT
June 22, 1992 at 0930 EST was my last drink.

I carry that around with me like a chip.

I think alcoholics are obsessed with details such as these. Like watching someone else drink a beer and being astounded when they leave an ounce and a half at the bottom of the glass.
thebravecowboy

Social climber
Colorado Plateau
Feb 5, 2014 - 01:49pm PT
One reminder I give myself is there isn't anything that a drink won't make worse.

I like it Plaid
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 11, 2014 - 04:31pm PT
Anybody see this recent article?

After 75 Years of Alcoholics Anonymous, It’s Time to Admit We Have a Problem
BY MAIA SZALAVITZ • February 10, 2014 • 10:00 AM

http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/75-years-alcoholics-anonymous-time-admit-problem-74268/#.UvoV5OvaubU.facebook
Kenygl

Trad climber
Salt Lake City
Feb 11, 2014 - 06:17pm PT
The article is a good read. I don't advocate one method over another. I have my preferred method buy it isn't for everyone. If there's a problem deal with it. If there isn't drink up. The individual will know.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 11, 2014 - 06:37pm PT
Apogee -I haven't time to do more than glance at the article right now, but "AA is Bad Science" articles come out quite frequently. This one doesn't seem to present anything new(though I will take a better look when I have sometime).

True - many people are mandated to AA after getting in a legal fix. Would we rather they be mandated to government-funded programs, when the plain truth is - as of yet, we have not found a way that is "better than AA?" AA, which "works" as well, if not better, than other courses of action, costs the government not one cent, although I suppose someone who is unable to transport themselves to meetings may require assistance in that way, which would likely be provided by a very localized organization which might receive some government funding.

Should we really "do nothing?" when a person cannot control their drinking to the point they are driving drunk or whatever other behaviors are getting them mandated to the program? Getting a dose of AA never killed anyone, although it may have been extremely uncomfortable for people who didn't want to address their drinking problem or couldn't seem to get the concept that they could have named a tile in the floor of their AA meeting as their "Higher Power."

Contrary to popular belief, most people recover from their addictions without any treatment—professional or self-help—regardless of whether the drug involved is alcohol, crack, methamphetamine, heroin, or cigarettes.

Contrary to whatever the author of that article is smoking, it ought to be the experience of the vast majority of human beings that that statement is a crock of shite. They really ought to provide some reference to reliable information when they write something like that. And...they don't. College year drinking does not equal alcoholism for the majority of the population.


Anyway - I am glad I got sober through AA, as have more than a few agnostics and atheists I know. It IS a program that works - if you work it - and is applicable to ALL aspects of life, not just addiction. IF we followed the Steps, Principals and Concepts of AA as a basis for dealing with our neighbors, from next door to those on the other side of the world, we WOULD HAVE world peace.


tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 11, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
Whatever works for you is fine by me but keep your pompus bullshit to yourselfs. Pretty fcked up when the AA crowd judges me and declares that I must not of really been an alchoholic if i was able to quit on my own without being part of their program.. Got news for you sunshine. I have accomplished many things in this life that many if not most people could not pull off. Of course millions of other folks have accomplished things that I could not. As much as we are all the same we are all different.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 11, 2014 - 09:37pm PT
Tradmanclimbs -I have no doubt whatsoever that you are an alcoholic. I never suggested you weren't...sunshine!

Because a write of an article(who doesn't mention actually have been an alcoholic, or even having attended open AA meetings) writes that AA'ers say someone who is able to quit on their own "must not really be an alcoholic" is blarney. Nowhere in the Big Book does it infer such a thing, nor anywhere in AA literature published since.

For sure, there are probably alcoholics in AA who would spout that sort of blather, but that would be their personal opinion and nothing more, and you know what they say about opinions.... (Or, as is said in the rooms of AA: "Some are sicker than others" - which is usually said in jest, by the way).

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 11, 2014 - 10:11pm PT
AA works but not or everybody,

95 percent leave before 90 days,

of those, 95 percent leave before 2 years,

maybe a lot of those who drop out remain sober, maybe not,

most of the people who come in on the blue light special do not return,

so 1 in 400 make it to 2 years, if they do make it to 2 years, then they tend to stay sober a long time,

you have to find a group that is good for you as anyone can attend, all it takes is one goofball to turn people off, and there is not much you can do to shut them up so you find another meeting,

so get what you can and leave the rest, helps me out, on my way to an 8 oclocker, free cofee, sometimes cake and cookies, and some cool people that i like,





bergbryce

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Feb 11, 2014 - 11:44pm PT
Only people who have been to 3 or less meetings give a rats ass about what everyone outside of the program gets all up in arms over. I got a tip for you.... It's the community. These programs allow you to surround yourself with others like you who also want to be well and provides some structure and some sort of direction for the previously directionless and hopeless. No one comes into aa high fiving their friends. For most, it's a demoralizing end of the road. But some get better and there is no better feeling than helping another crawl out of that shitty pit of hell you were once in yourself.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Feb 12, 2014 - 09:56pm PT
Two days away from 14 years. One day at a time. For those still suffering, please keep up the fight. It works if you work it.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 12, 2014 - 10:15pm PT
Happy Valentine's...err 14 years Sober Day!
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Mar 1, 2014 - 07:31am PT
i've experienced a few wet dreams, of late.
ones where i give the shaft to sobriety
and frolic in the foam of a good draught.

the first pint always feels good,
the second one showers me with guilt,
and i'm upset, in my dream,
that i'll have to tell my wife that i spilt beer down my gob.

i'm about 6 months deep in this
sucker hole of reality.
i was probing around in the dark,
trying to find a soft place to park,
for it was cold and lonely and overly dramatic, out there.
i should have waited for light before committing
to absolute clarity,
but now here i find myself,
still lonely, overly-dramatic and broke; underinspired.
but fvck it. right. fvck that false hole,
i'm gone and i'm right here at the same time,
kinda torn between existences.
since i'm my own design,
i assigned myself a proper modulus of elasticity,
which quantifies a resistance to bending.
mine is, rightfully, quite low.


yesterday i was at the pub with my daughters
and i had a good bottle of n.a.,
they had gelato.

the fine gals around me were having the perfect.
pints, good shares, laughter, social shine, and big smiles.
i shared in their conversation, and i felt a tinge of yearning for the pint.

but overall, this has been quite enjoyable.
the emotional glissades are still there,
but i've found other ways to jumar back up my hope-rope
that don't leave me with a sideways glance and hung over.

i'm excited about the potential beer that i'll crack
on my 40th, next october, closing a sober year.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 2, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
So I go to the Banff film fest the other night.

At intermission, they do a door prize drawing. About 4 different prizes they draw for. I tell my friends, "I never win these things, have never won one anywhere". So the last prize they draw is a growler with some free fill-ups from a Redlands microbrewery. I lean over tell buddy "watch this, I don't drink, never win these things...5:1 they draw my number"

"568..."
"I'm gonna win"
"2..."
"You've got to be shitting me, I'm going to win"
"8!"

Yes, I won the beer. WTF?!
Friends I went with don't drink either. Plenty of people from my climbing gym were in attendance, so I passed it off to a friend once the thing was over. Kept the brewery t-shirt though, a man can never have too many t-shirts.

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 1, 2014 - 10:13am PT
i'm calling it my seven month milestone.
it is merely a coincidence that today is april fools,

so this morning i asked my wife for an appropriate gift:

me: "will you drink a coors light so i can steal a nip?"
she: "no, i don't want a beer right now (it's 7:00 am)."

me: "where's the love?"

so i'm dry.

5 months until my 1-year goal is complete.
i'm kinda excited to lip up to that can of real.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 1, 2014 - 10:54am PT
Four years, just last week.

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 7, 2014 - 09:16pm PT
So, it's Monday night. I don't have to work tomorrow and I've decided that I want to drink to the point of being buzzed, tonight.
When I found out that I'd have tonight to myself I thought, 'Sweet, I can have a cocktail.' {total red flag, if you ever want to find one}
Well, I'm doing it right now, and it feels shitty, like I'm just going through the motions and getting nothing back in return.
I'm listening to Bob Marley preach greatness, and I portray greatness when I can, but I am not a great man. I am a flawed man.
There are no more lies in our relationship, so I'm telling you that I'm f*#king up tonight.
I'm not getting wasted, but I've got a little buzz.
Tomorrow I'll wake and accomplish things on my list, but I'm slipping a little bit tonight. It's not indicative of anything larger, but I want to be super honest with you.
I've found a space in my being that is all love, and it is so damn good. You've been the impetus for so much of my change.
I'm telling this to you because I care about us.
I've quit drinking for both of us, but I'm falling back on old habits tonight, three beers, bad news.
I hope you can forgive me. I did what I said I wouldn't do.
I love you.

F*#k.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 7, 2014 - 09:24pm PT
I wrote that to the woman I love.

It's such a struggle, now that I have someone else in my life.

It's easy when she's around, but I give in to addiction more often than I should when I'm alone.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz CA
Apr 7, 2014 - 09:32pm PT
Brandon, think of the views from Cone Peak we were just e-chatting about. Substitute those memories for the beer....and forgive yourself for the relapse...

Susan
Sanskara

climber
Apr 7, 2014 - 09:37pm PT
Yikes man just stop now,

This only has to be as bad as you make it.

If you stop with this three beers and having had written this letter regardless of how she reacts you don't have many pieces to pick up at this point if any,

Worse case move out, find your own place, learn to get used to being alone again and make sure you don't drink. Sure that might be a sh#t ton of work and you can't see from here how to get there from where you stand now but its nothing like the damage a full on bender will create,.

It can get much much worse real quick and chances are will. Nothing quite sucks like picking yourself up off the ground when nothing is left, there is no where to turn and not a soul willing to help and or wants anything to do with you.

That sh#t takes years to rebuild from. This "what you are dealing with now" drinking a few beers, hurts like the hurt everyone has to deal with that does not self medicate. You back peddle out real easy still.

A few beers, cut yourself some slack. Get up tomorrow figure out what is not right in your life enough to motivate you to pick up and start walking in the opposite direction of it and don't look back.

If you hesitate you could end up f*#ked real fast. If you just don't drink again this can be a little tiny blip in the grand scheme of things..
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Apr 7, 2014 - 09:55pm PT
Man the custody battle really changed my drinking habit. I've been a 1-3 beers 3-4 nights a week drinker forever. Social beers. Big euro guy with no DUI's. I don't like being drunk. For the first time ever, and for a year now, I think about beer every day. That's probably bad. I'm just heartbroken and miss my kid and really want a break from the hurting most evenings. I'm uncomfortable with the new normal. I should take a long walk and clear my head. Jail is the other real possibility as I've been served with an arrest warrant by my baby mama. Dark days.
Sanskara

climber
Apr 7, 2014 - 10:02pm PT
Hope you guys are just f*#king around,

I would think if you know enough to worry about a few drinks you dam well know the difference between a momentary lapse in judgment and being scrapped off the ground and dumped in detox.

The later you pay the price for and feel the pain for years, the prior hurts now but subsides in hours, days, weeks, worse case months.

Putting yourself back together after you let everything go is a big f*#king job!

Wishing you both the best.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 7, 2014 - 10:17pm PT
Many ways to get a break fellas.

Occupy your time, tire yourself out. The gym works for me, but I grew up training in one kind of gym or another from about 13yo, so I feel at home in them and if I go after work, train til 8, drive home, cook dinner, eat...then it's bed time. No time for temptation.

Not a long term solution, but it can get you through some of the rougher spells.
Sanskara

climber
Apr 7, 2014 - 11:23pm PT
Been sober about 6 years man,

Sadly not a substance known to man I have not had to kick at some point in time...
Sanskara

climber
Apr 7, 2014 - 11:31pm PT
Yeah too many years f*#king around when I shoulda been learning to spell. Well there is more to it than that but whatever.

36 and been fighting this fight since 13. My neighbor at the time an old timer brought me to my first AA meeting at 13. As she said it was clear I was not just experimenting like other kids. By 15 I had my first year. I won't go into much more than that but let's just say I got many a 24 hr chips before I got it. Then I got it for many years in a row and gave it away, then I took it back you get the idea.

Now I suppose I am addicted to recreating but I consider that pretty productive by comparison. And at least thus far my addiction has very little negative impact on me those who love me or society. It's a hell of a lot more than I use to be sold to say. Maybe not much to some but tell that to anyone who loves me and has seen me in through tuff times.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Apr 8, 2014 - 05:44am PT
do you have to finish all the booze in the house?

do you drink til blackout?

you might be an alcoholic,

if that is the case, then a few drinks will cause a physical craving for more alcohol

this physical craving is driven by a mental obsession to drink,

i never went out for a drink, i went out for a drunk,

if you are an alcoholic and want your life to turn out great, then you must quit completely and forever,

this will prevent the positive feedback cycle that drives the physical craving,

how do you avoid that first drink?

remove the mental obsession.

you need help with this obsession as the urge to drink can hit you out of nowhere, just like a lightening bolt,

but doctors agree that no human power can completely prevent this obsession from leading to relapse,

if you are ready to surrender and do anything to stop the torture, then you will open your mind to the Great Spirit. this is the only thing known to man to cure people of the disease of alcoholism, period.

if you are not ready to surrender yet, then just stay home and drink until you really get beat down, but do not drink and drive as you could end up getting sober while behind bars.

when you know you are really ready, then go to an AA meeting and listen.

ask the person in charge about how to find a sponsor.

they will help walk you through the big book of alcoholics anonymous.

you will love the results you get if you do this.

good things will start to happen that will turn your life around.

if you just sit in meetings, you will feel better, but you will still be subject to relapse.

what the sponsor will do is sit down with you and help you make a list of people you hate and things you are afraid of.

if you are full of fear, guilt, shame and remorse, you will be willing to pray for the people you hate. this will replace the hate with love. sounds corny? fine. go find out what it is like to die an alcoholic death.

after you make progress, you will turn you thoughts and actions over to the Great Spirit instead of your self. you will ask Him how he would handle certain situations instead of using your own self will.

then you will make amends to people you have screwed over in your life.

by this time, your mind will be free to do prayer and meditation on a daily basis, which was hard to do with a mind full of resentments,

now you are making real progress. you are removing the reasons for the mental obsession to drink, and maintaining this state of mind by attending meetings of people who you share a common goal with.

you will feel so good that you will be able to help others.

you are now a recovered alcoholic and will stay that way if you do not drift back to your self centered ways and lose contact with AA.

you keep working the steps until you die a sober death,

think you have problems that make you want to drink?

listen to this story. if you do not feel like a complete wimp after you do, then i will pay you one million dollars>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_EBujROSeM
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 8, 2014 - 07:29am PT

i never went out for a drink, i went out for a drunk,

That was me, except I rarely went out. 17 years,7 1/2 months after getting sober, I am still more comfortable with solitude than society.

if you are not ready to surrender yet, then just stay home and drink,... but do not drink and drive as you could end up getting sober while behind bars.

I've met a few who did that, and if that's the way it goes, it does make for compelling qualifications. But I wouldn't suggest it just to have a hold-onto-your-seat, this-is-gonna-be-a-good-one story.

I don't know I have been so lucky to have, as they say, "had the obsession lifted," but have to wonder if it is because I would not make it if tempted by the thought of a drink. In some ways I am a true Taurus. I joke: "When I make a decision I STICK to it. Even when I'm wrong." But on other things, I have so little tolerance for discomfort that I give up without even trying. That's why I don't climb very hard - I "can't go through with it" when reaching past my comfort zone. Without being one of those lucky ones who doesn't get tempted, I'd have hang-dogging sobriety that tired even the most patient belayerrr...I mean sponsors.

For some reason, I want to add that with all the luck of easy sobriety that I have, sponsorship/being sponsored has never been a strong part of my story. I have had sponsors/been a sponsor, but it has never been one of those close relationships that some people talk about having. It is hard for me to be vulnerable(as a sponsee), and I also haven't got very much tolerance for people's drama(as a sponsor).
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 8, 2014 - 08:56am PT
I just realized it's been four years, as of a couple weeks ago (3/24)
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Apr 8, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
Happy Birthday Jaybro!
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Apr 9, 2014 - 01:36am PT

probably the best youtube for AA, Joe and Charlie, 10+ hrs, takes you thru the whole book,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlL6DWloEuI
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 22, 2014 - 10:30am PT
i spent last night on the wrong pillow.
when i awoke, i felt like shite.
for the first few blurry moments
i thought, with neutral emotion,
that i must have imbibed the evening before.

then clarity reared it's ugly head
and i knew that my pristine behavior
was not only upheld, but promoted to new
heights last night: my evening cocktail was
organic aloe juice cut with a nip of coconut water for flair!

in fact, my recent conduct has been so commendable,
that it can reach right into my dark past and rip
from it's concrete stance,
all of the ill-guilt of my naughty soul.

i'm sober today, and i've sworn off all future sin,
and then i went on executing myne demons and every
drink that i ever took has been exorcised from my past
so i never was even a drunk, i might as well apply for saint-hood;

and now,
my cleanliness is astute today, and probably will be tomorrow too,
so that i'm storing up a surplus of righteousness that i'll surely need
some day soon when i'm a f*#k-up again and i'll blanket that passed out
bastard with some protective cloak that i weave today,
as a respectable sober citizen with upstanding pen strokes
that scribe calculations which orchestrate the erection
a soul's superstructure.

ahem, pass the duct tape,
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 11, 2014 - 02:55pm PT
I'm not having fun with this. I was making a real effort and life showed up. Back to the beginning I guess.
John M

climber
May 11, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
It happens Michelle. It took me at least 4 times to make quitting stick. I say at least 4 times because those years are a bit of a blur to me and I just don't remember all the times I went back. its probably more then 4, :-) but I did it and now don't have any issues with alcohol. which is a relief.



Just get back on the horse and start over. Thats all you have ever had to do. Decide who you want to be in each and every moment and remind yourself why. I would also say don't waste a lot of energy beating yourself up. You can't change the past. You can only choose what you will do today. Today is a new day and it sure is a pretty one.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
May 11, 2014 - 05:46pm PT
i used to cast a valiant stare
that gleamed my soul's conviction.

i did.
i could answer to anyone.

somewhere, though,
that substance eroded
and now i can only author a shifty glance,
as my mounting failures cast a dark shadow
upon my distant successes and
not much longer can i lean on
that which i used to be.

the present beckons the warrior,
but i've only to offer a coward.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
May 11, 2014 - 08:06pm PT
Coming up on 4 months. It's been not too bad so far, for a 56 year old retired gentleman living in a halfway house with a bunch of neurotic 20 year olds. It was this or die. Feels awesome.
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
May 11, 2014 - 08:36pm PT
Good to hear from you, bvb. Sounds entertaining
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
May 11, 2014 - 10:22pm PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9AexiRyPc0

bvb!
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 12, 2014 - 12:03am PT
What up bob? We should go bowling.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
May 12, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
Yeah Michelle, bowling pairs great with ginger ale, right?!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
May 12, 2014 - 05:23pm PT
Lemon lime seltzer water, don't go anywhere without it. Grapefruit flavor is better bit you can't get it (Safeway) in Utah.....
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 12, 2014 - 05:43pm PT
I'm all about Pelligrino!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
May 12, 2014 - 11:06pm PT
Straight up artesian from that spring beneath lower cathedral. Hell yeah.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
May 13, 2014 - 12:23am PT
AA coffee and crappy furniture,

remember to work the steps, just getting sober will make your life worse than when you were drinking,

lost an AA friend to a pine tree and rope yesterday, please reach out before you do that,


good stuff from Bob D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvP5E_-Ju9s&list=PLuSJRom1_4kDm2Rga13qROhKyYEvuEmSo
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 13, 2014 - 06:20am PT
Fck that doom sh#t. Life sober is a hell of a lot better than life wallowing in the sh#t. Seltzer water all the way. Its fizy and hits the spot with no sugar:) I used to do the ginger ale thing at partys and gigs and would feel like crap the next day.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 13, 2014 - 10:46am PT
I'm sorry for your loss. I understand that you're passionate about AA and the steps.

happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
May 13, 2014 - 05:53pm PT
If I am at a bar(yes, I do occasionally go, though I sure didn't in the early years) I will order a cranberry and orange juice, or cranberry with seltzer. Or seltzer with lime. I'd have plain water if it didn't seem cheap.

For house parties, I stock a variety of juices with seltzer, and will brew as much coffee as anyone cares to caffeinate with. For those who drink alcohol, they are welcome to bring whatever they want, but I make sure they know there won't be any if they don't BYO.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 13, 2014 - 08:11pm PT
Being in a construction crew A few times one of the guys has asked me to buy beer when I am going to the store. Does not work for me. Did it once or twice and have decided that it is not my place for many reasons.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
May 27, 2014 - 01:53pm PT
Hey Jebus,
Nice post.
Good job staying straight on the long and winding road.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 27, 2014 - 01:56pm PT
Great post Jebus.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
May 27, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
Alcoholism and Drug addiction has affected to some degree every family I have ever known. I have been clean and sober since August 17th, 1989. Most of the people I have met who have tried to get sober don't get it on the first try. Some of them who couldn't have died, and others continue to live in the nightmare cycle of drinking/using, remorse, drama, financial ruin, and deteriorating health. Fortunately, several close friends of mine have also known longtime sobriety, and like me, they continue to live happier, healthier lives. I used AA but no longer attend as I am now an atheist who feels uneasy in the higher power based environment of the organization. I consider myself an lifetime member nonetheless and did every service requested of me there, and then some. I volunteered to visit and speak at the meetings in hospitals and institutions for eight years. Nothing is more satisfactory than freely exiting such places and returning to the life I now have, spared of the pain and fear of not knowing how to accept life on life's terms and how to look for and relish the rare and beautiful moments we might miss if we are too stoned, or drunk, or selfish, or upset to notice.

I have gone through some difficult times in sobriety. I have helped support my wife as she battled and recovered from cancer, have lost family members to illnesses, and have had surgeries and illnesses to recover from as well. Some of my other family members struggle with addiction and alcoholism as well. I think around year four or five were the hardest though. I just could not seem to control the people and situations around me and no matter how I tried, the play would rarely go off as I directed...
I think that time was the darkest, when I had to begin living from moment to moment and learn to lower my expectations of all the results.

Everyone deserves the opportunity to see the world as clearly as time, health, knowledge, and experience will allow. We all have different circumstances, but we who seek to be free from the bonds of addiction can be united by our similarities...

Decide that you want and deserve to live, what kind of life you want to lead, put your pride, anger, and all the rest on a shelf, and use every means at your disposal to get yourself there.

As to the question: is sobriety an appropriate topic for discussion in a rock climbing forum? The answer is to ask the question; does it pertain to you or to someone you love? If so, it is pertinent.

-Tim Sorenson
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
May 27, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
Watching my brother -in-law unable to be treated for liver cancer because the cirrohsis from alcohol and the hep c from drug use have left him with very little liver that functions. Holding my sister's hands as she loses her husband. Watching my niece lose her daddy - who will not be there to walk her down the aisle. Watching my nephew patiently taking Dad to the flea market and taking care of him (awesome little guy) instead of doing all those things 19 year old boys are supposed to do.

SObriety is a fight that is worth it to your family. I look at this thread each time it pops up to see the support and see the struggle. I am rooting for all of you.
Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
May 27, 2014 - 05:13pm PT
Well done Hank!

Steve
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
May 27, 2014 - 05:36pm PT
life goes on when you quit drinking, only now you do not have booze to get you through hard times, so sobriety can be worse than drinking until you remove the reasons why you drink and then learn how to deal with life without booze,

went to the Capitol City Jamboree las weekend, had a great time,

one guy got drunk and cut the top off of his parents new Buick because he wanted to cruise around high school a convertible, they found him in the front seat the next morning, buck nekid, never did find his clothes, same guy got pulled over for a DUI and slammed the cop down on the hood of his patrol car and took his gun away from him, gave the gun back, cop turned him loose as he did not want everybody down at the station to give him a hard time about it for the rest of his life, sheesh!

here is a good one from Chuck C>

[url=" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5F2qBiUpIA"] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5F2qBiUpIA[/url]
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 27, 2014 - 05:57pm PT
Congrats Hankster!
TwistedCrank

climber
Released to general population, Idaho
May 27, 2014 - 06:45pm PT
Keep coming back.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
May 27, 2014 - 06:50pm PT
time and reality have a vague relationship.

i had to hire
chaos-on-call
for when reality gets too comfortable
i reach for the whip
and duly upset that status-quo;

my investment into this
psychological disaster
is my marriage
and my fame
and most of my damn fortune.

and if i can do it again,
i will only change the length
of my fingernails so i can
swipe the pleasure stains
from strange women's underwear,
thus relocating my biological
trail from her's to beneath
my fingernail
and when the cops take my
prints they will see that
i've personally ruined three
marriages as
an accessory to infidelity.
a stamp of
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 27, 2014 - 06:58pm PT
It took me roughly 4 months to finalize the sobriety process. I started trying in may of 06. Had a few slips along the way but my last 2 1/2 beers was 8-25-06 that was a milestone for me because I had been clean for about six weeks. had two beers after climbing with old drinking buddy. ordered a 3rd beer. took a few sips and decided I did not want it. Stopping like that in the middle of a Guiness with two pints in me did more for my head confidence than if I had quit on a hangover.. It was like I proved to myself that I could quit and that I really wanted to quit.

Anyone can quit when you feel like sh#t. quitting when I was just starting to feel good really proved something to myself and filled me with confidence in the years to come....
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 27, 2014 - 07:45pm PT
Cool! so happy it worked for you.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jun 20, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
..my first aa meeting tonight.

who knows?
not me.
i've never lost control.
lunacie

climber
New York, NY
Jun 20, 2014 - 02:19pm PT
Congrats Hank, huge f*#king deal. I can relate with grim times months before getting sober. Very dark and very sick.

9 years for me last week...

thanks for this thread!!!

John
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jun 20, 2014 - 03:04pm PT
Good luck, Norwegian. I hope you get a good meeting!

Congratulations on the anniversaries to those who posted recently. I missed seeing this thread when they were posted, looks like.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 20, 2014 - 03:17pm PT
Yeah, good luck Norwegian, you can send this!

And congrats Hank! But you knew I felt that way already.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Jun 21, 2014 - 12:23am PT
bout time you got your ass in a meeting Norwegian,

sounds like you PAID for your seat already,

Pitiful
And
Incomprehensible
Demoralization


let loose of your life,
step away from your life, you have been driving the bus long enough and look what happened,

page 62-Next, we decided hereafter in this drama of life, God would be our Director.

sounds corny, but looking down on the world from the gutter is no way to live,

Listen to Chuck C and Clancy I on youtube, then Bob D,

just got back from my 4th meeting today, nooner, 6 oclock men's meeting, 8 oclock speaker meeting, 10 oclock candlelight meeting, love the people, love the program,
my will to quit is no match for alcohol's will for me to drink,





tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 21, 2014 - 03:55am PT
I know a guy who has 3 DWI's the 3rd one a felony. he did time. He is out now with an ankle bracelet and state mandated prescription for that stuff that makes you real sick if you drink alcohol. Billy thinks that everyone up in jail was a loser and the people in his state mandated counseling sessions are all losers.. everyone else has the problem and he didn't do anything wrong......
Woody the Beaver

Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
Jun 21, 2014 - 06:17am PT
Thanks, Hank.
coolrockclimberguy69

climber
Jun 21, 2014 - 01:15pm PT
Here we go...
Edge

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jul 1, 2014 - 07:21am PT
Today is my birthday and my sobriety date. I'm either 53 years old or four years alive, depending on how you look at it.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jul 1, 2014 - 02:59pm PT
Congratulations Edge!
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
Jul 1, 2014 - 03:16pm PT
53 and a-life beats the alternative.
Happy B-day, Mr. living as an Edge!
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 9, 2014 - 07:22am PT
i'm guilty often of a heavy pinky,
optimistically romantic
as i emotionally commit
to 10 years of sobriety
from this point on,
in order to revive my
dead marriage and
salvage my eroded
efforts as a dad;

i am concurrently an engineer
and committed to a logic-driven realism
and i know,
and my wife knows,
and my children know
and even my mother-bless-her
who solders my fractured heart
again and a gin,
knows that really i'll just band-aid
a busted up life until
it limps along just shy of respectable
and then i'll booze it again broken
so's not to untie
the knot that binds me,
but merely just loosen it
so those whom love me
can aspire.

that's what i told the boss at a.a.
that i worry more about
her's undoing than i do about mine.

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jul 9, 2014 - 09:53am PT
As they say in AA, Norwegian - Keep Coming Back. You're on your way, one day at a time, and it's all good. The important thing, the only thing, really, is to not take that first drink.




I'm coming into the "countdown" time of the year. My sober date is August 26th, but in the weeks leading to it, each year, I feel a sort of melancholia mixed with hopefulness. My body remembers the period of time I was at during the several weeks before I got sober. It remembers the feeling of my soul slowly spiraling like water down the drain - a pretty bleak awareness.

I got lucky, and was flicked out of the vortex before I went past the metal ring at the top of life's drain. I got a chance at a new life without having to die.


Hope everyone is having a good day.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 10, 2014 - 07:41pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 23, 2014 - 08:37am PT
at the edge of the vagina,
where pink fades to punk;
where reality rises from the ashes of lust;
at the threshold between arid and dank climes,

i see the same line.
the one that separates my drunk warrior from his sober coward.

and now i'm dragging myself down the coarse course of life,
"off the white dashed line,
along the black, windswept road" (mother hips.)

excessive clarity is a clown
and i'm the core of his act;
the line of his punch;
the butt of his jokes.

i got absolute control over every
life-aspect that surrenders to me.

marriage? secure.
jobs? bomber.
lifestyle? free and just-shy-of-easy.
parenting? improving.

so i'll plow this path for the time being.
upholding my chin, while peers admire my strides;

i and my progress are the subject of
dinner-time conversations all about my town.

my gaze though, the one that i cast upon
those parents of the play-yard children;
the one that is not recently hung-over;
the one that reports my adoration of struggle,
is cantilevered beyond my eyes
and some secrets comprise the back span
of that gaze - holding it up for the time
being as it is subject to life-loads.

and those little secrets i'm building every day.
and everything present is temporary.
everything that is, enjoys the blessing of entropy.

might is in my future.
and i'll be pleasantly lost once again in pink landscapes
for an extended duration
as i undo the current overload of
of poise and well being.

sobriety, for me,
is nothing more than a bridge between freedoms.
but the bridge is a plank,
cantilevered, like my stare;
bolted down in my past,
and in my future ends over an attractive abyss.


Tvash

climber
Seattle
Jul 23, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
Stastically, about 5% of people who quit drinking once never drink again.

Of the rest, about a third will stop after a few tries, a third will have some success but never really stop, and the remainder will fail miserably for the rest of their lives.

AA is close to a century old. It works for some folks, not at all for many others. It begs for a more scientifically proven alternative - AA has zero science behind it. Relying on peer pressure to keep the demons at bay can a be a spotty proposition. A small number of people who are very close can make a difference - but a whole bunch of AA buddies who really aren't that close?

The 'make amends' step can be a disaster for those on the other end. That girlfriend from a decade ago? Newsflash: She really doesn't want to hear from you. The 'higher power' thing turns an increasingly larger non-religious population off before they even get in the door, even if many AA meetings are not actually religious at all.

Knowledge that does not falsely create an US v THEM construct (Drunks v normies, blah blah) can offer less isolating, more proven approaches. Rational Emotive Therapy (recognizing triggers to relapse and acting accordingly), Choice Theory, and developing a life plan (to fill the hole of not drinking) can be particularly effective none pharmaceutical methods for getting off high center.

Early public education with regards to detecting a propensity for addiction early in life is not nearly as robust or ubiquitous as it should be, and that's a shame.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 23, 2014 - 12:56pm PT
"The success rate of AA is between 5 and 10 percent."

Not many people climb, either.....
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jul 23, 2014 - 01:34pm PT
The first step - whether it is 12 step or a different path - is the most critical. Life is never a success only journey. I think this thread was meant to be supportive. Perhpas intentions are good. I'd rather see additional insight offered than merely criticizing one path that was not 100% effective the first time. When it comes to physical addiction, there isn't a 100% effective path for all. Add to the possible solution set.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 23, 2014 - 05:29pm PT
I'm not an AA guy either, but I think it's a mistake to disregard it because it's no an absolute success. Nothing is gaurantied, ever! But AA works for a lot of people and has something to offer, everybody. It offers a useful group of insights and alternate perspectives. Anyone struggling with anything can pick up some ideas from it.

I think people get in trouble when they expect it to automatically take care of them. It won't. Whether it works for you or not, it's YOU that has to make the decision to make a change. It can however, offer a support group of people struggling with a similar decision. It can help in other ways as well.

For many people, it's a big part of their recovery effort. It helps them find what they need to find inside themselves to make the change. Just because most people need to find more to complete the mosaic that they need is not a good reason to harsh on something that is a useful "step" for so many.
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Aug 18, 2014 - 09:06am PT
today I am 4
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 18, 2014 - 10:18am PT
I'm not an AA guy either, but I think it's a mistake to disregard it because it's no an absolute success. Nothing is gaurantied, ever! But AA works for a lot of people and has something to offer, everybody. It offers a useful group of insights and alternate perspectives. Anyone struggling with anything can pick up some ideas from it.


Plus 10 for Jaybro!
True, AA is not for everyone, but they have continued to evolve their style, while supporting and maintaining the things that have worked for so many. Sure, find whatever works for you, but in the meantime, nobody can beat the great folks and awesome crusty hardscrabble life stories at AA.

You gotta hand it to them, a couple of drunks came up with a working model when the "Professional" and "Medical" communities were still scratching their heads.....
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 19, 2014 - 01:41pm PT
One week from today(Tuesday, 8/26) I will be celebrating my 18th Anniversary of sobriety. Though it is a One Day at a Time thing, it's likely I will make it; I am one of the lucky ones. Any Gunkies who might like to get out for a day of easy TRing next Tuesday, or maybe dinner in town? I don't usually "make a deal" out of birthdays and anniversaries, but this year for some reason, I want to acknowledge it. I remember, early on, seeing some of the people in my AA home group who I admired and they all seemed to "have 18 years" at the time. For some reason, "18 years" has always seemed a milestone to me.




Relying on peer pressure to keep the demons at bay can a be a spotty proposition. A small number of people who are very close can make a difference - but a whole bunch of AA buddies who really aren't that close?


I have never had "good friends." I don't actually know how to do that, eve with all the practice over the years. What I have is "acquaintances" and LOTS of them. In early sobriety(years 1 through 5, comes to mind), those people in my AA group, who I hung out with as if we were new-found survivors on what we thought was a desert island, were the foundation for my learning HOW to interact with other people in a more balanced way. Some of them were strangely insane - men with double digit sobriety trying to bed every pretty new girl, one guy a child of a a mobster, another who got sober in prison serving time for bank robbery, a woman who worked for the Dept. of Defense, another who had become famous with a million dollar record deal, ex-hookers and porno actors, a Franciscan monk, cops, lawyers, and plenty of just plain folks - all with ONE common denominator.

I do still have contact(Facebook, occasional email) with abut six or eight of those people who made up "my" early sobriety. I still wouldn't, even these years later, consider them "friends," even though they are some of the most important people in my life. It is because I haven't committed to ME being a friend, I think. Maybe that is something I can work on....

But I can assure anyone reading, that without those people, I wouldn't have made it.


The 'make amends' step can be a disaster for those on the other end. That girlfriend from a decade ago? Newsflash: She really doesn't want to hear from you.

Interesting point! I didn't rush through my steps, and I sometimes wish I HAD had a sponsor in my first year who blasted me through them before I had any clue whatsoever.... We are SO believing that we are the center of everyone who knows us' universe.... Or that they are still pining from the sting of our behavior all those years later. I have received two amends for other AA's. One, a girl I saw come in when I had about two or three years, apologized for "brushing me off" when I provided some suggestion about sobriety. I have NO recollection of what she referred to. Yet, it bothered her enough to put me on her list. The other, from a lady with twenty plus years, was actually an attempt to tell me how they thought I had wronged THEM! Crazy alcoholics.... me included.

But....making amends isn't actually about the other person. It is something we do to free ourselves from self-inflicted pain. Full of funny paradoxes, the AA way.
bergbryce

climber
East Bay, CA
Aug 19, 2014 - 01:45pm PT
5 last month and a friend of Bill.
I encourage those inclined to find their own path, there are many to choose from.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Aug 19, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
Congrats pb!! Do you remember Baby Steps?
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Aug 19, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
There is plenty I don't remember, much I'd like to forget, some I can't risk losing sight of. Good friend Cragar, still have those old hexes scratched and smoothed?
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Aug 19, 2014 - 03:34pm PT
Thanks, you too. They are long gone, but the memories are not. One thing I have not forgotten is your way with words; awesome for sure. Do you remember that day we went up Burst and put a couple bolts above a crack on the E. face? My Sonora time was short and I don't see y'all often in a physical sense, but I smile every time I think of one of those Burst, Grotto outings or just the hanging out.
I really need to get my '49er on the next time I am down there! Oh, and you always got a place in MT and there are fecal loads of chossy climbs ta'boot!
Stevee B

Trad climber
Oakland, CA
Aug 19, 2014 - 05:01pm PT
The 'make amends' step can be a disaster for those on the other end. That girlfriend from a decade ago? Newsflash: She really doesn't want to hear from you.

Curious where you got the idea that the twelve steps suggest to do that. It's always seemed to me and been reaffirmed by my sponsors that we are to leave those people alone.

"except when to do so would injure them" seems pretty plainspoken to me.


Tvash

climber
Seattle
Aug 19, 2014 - 09:07pm PT
A recognition that AA isn't the most effective program for everyone isn't a critique of the success rate that AA does have with some people. The evidence suggests that it's more effective than no program at all,
and about as good as other therapies like RET. There have been few studies with regards to whether AA can actually be harmful to some people. That's a valid question (for any therapy or program) that should be looked into more scientifically.

The important thing for any individual to remember is that AA is not the only program or therapy available, and it may not be the most effective program for them. Combining AA with other therapies, and perhaps switching from AA to other programs an individual finds to be more effective for them is probably a much healthier approach than sticking with one program, regardless of how old or how many members it has, failing, and then giving up in despair.

One of the big downsides I found with AA is a pervasive Us (alkies) versus Them (Normies) mentality. Some find this form of mental insulation helpful or deem it necessary - I found this to be a form of false tribalism and, as such, needlessly isolating and therefore counterproductive to a person who is, after all, attempting to connect more fully with the world.

I also found it difficult to take the anthropomorphizing and demonization of a simple chemical seriously. Such mythology just didn't do much for me.

I was successful, and, truth be told, AA didn't play a significant role in that success. For those AA works well for, it's a great program. This message is for the other folks who may require another approach - there are other approaches, and they can be successful.

Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Aug 19, 2014 - 09:32pm PT
Buried my brother-in-law last week. Very sad. Hep C, cirrhosis, too many tylenol for back pain, liver cancer = no liver function. 55, saw his kids graduate from high school - thanks to 18 years of sobriety. Left behind a wife and kids 19 and 23. These were all reasons to live. He knew that he had made mistakes, but spent many years of sobriety doing the very best he knew how.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Aug 19, 2014 - 11:01pm PT
I'm always impressed at the civility of this thread, despite the differing opinions.


I'm curious about the social queues that indicate one might be over the top. What's your experience or in watching others, what have you seen?

I'm thinking here primarily of those queues from another to someone that's basically acting out and already next to rock bottom. One incident? Several? Heinous incident?
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Aug 19, 2014 - 11:28pm PT
hitting a bottom does not mean you will be good at AA,

it is more about deciding that you want to change your life,

people can hit bottom during sobriety also,

Tvash

climber
Seattle
Aug 20, 2014 - 09:16am PT
Some common cues that you may want to think about quitting the sauce:

Legal sanctions (DUI, etc)
Degradation of personal relationships
Physical or verbal violence
Advice from friends
Blackouts
Depression
Low self esteem
Anxiety
A feeling of impending disaster
Guilt about driving drunk
Planning your schedule around drinking
Inability to dream of or plan for the future
Lack of cash
Defensiveness about your drinking or behavior
Obesity/poor health/poor diet (grease to soak up the booze or hangover)
Loss of time, productivity, motivation, and energy
Lost productivity and energy during the day due to hangovers
Quitting things you used to be passionate about
Drinking "friends" you don't actually like being with
Telling yourself "This shiite is getting old"

Have a pal video tape you while drunk and watch it.

Very effective.

It's much, much easier to just quit than to try to 'control it'.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Aug 21, 2014 - 12:56am PT
what about going to the liquor store in your pajamas?

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 21, 2014 - 06:19am PT
At what time of day?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 27, 2014 - 11:19am PT
Yesterday was 18 years sober - made it!

Two of my sisters "just happened to show up" to my place on Monday. They live in Wisconsin and Michigan and were on the return travel from being Camp To Belong(reunites foster kids with their siblings for a week) counselors for a week up in Maine.

They stayed an extra day and we did a long hike out to the Mohonk Mountain House. out for 8 hours. I didn't think about a drink even once. It was a nice surprise and a good way to spend the anniversary day!
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Aug 27, 2014 - 01:40pm PT
Happy - that's my kind of celebration - a lovely, long hike. Excellent.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 28, 2014 - 03:02am PT
Congrats Happy! i know yours is right arround mine every year. I went climbing on my 8th and totally forgot about it untill two days later.. i guess thats a really good sighn!
Linda Jarit

climber
ca
Aug 28, 2014 - 08:51am PT
14 years today. Its been filled with ups and downs. So grateful to be present through all of it.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Aug 29, 2014 - 10:41am PT
i've been courting wellness:
batting my long lashes,
putting on clean digs.
trimming my nails.
even pleases and thank yooz.

she's got no eye for me.
a tough catch, she.
she holds pretty high standards,
and i just don't know
if i got it in me.

i mean, some chicks just are not cut out
for my disaster.

my mold is toxic.

so i'll turn my pursuits away
from her and just stumble on down
to the local corner market,
crack a camo and hit
up the idle ladies with short skirts
and long jackets.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 29, 2014 - 10:44am PT
You can be a really depressing guy to encounter here,on the Taco, Norwegian...
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Aug 29, 2014 - 10:52am PT
what you saying jaybro?
chilly winds don't blow thru here?

is this place reserved for just
pink clouds and blue skies?

perfectly tanned fit folks
with not a lick of sunburn?

oh i didn't get the memo.
please forward me something better to write.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 29, 2014 - 11:29am PT
No Weeg, only you can decide to make it better. Far be it from me to put words in the artist's mouf!

There's a difference between the blues and whining, and you've nailed it at times, so I know you know that edge. That last one just left me a little sour, as have had several over the years, and I thought I'd finally mention it. It has nothing to do with this thread or it's subject. You can do whatever you want.

Namaste 'nshit
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 29, 2014 - 01:59pm PT
And hats off to you Linda!
How did I miss that? I thought of you the other day, but didn't think It was my place to say anything to the world at large.

Linda by her example, was the one of the key straws, weighing in my own decision to stop drinking. Thanks again Linda! Now come out and climb with me in Moab!
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 29, 2014 - 03:48pm PT
Good on you, Linda. Straight edged is the shizzle, nothwitstanding the occassional speed wobbles. That's life on life's terms.

One thing I try and never forget - "...The insanity of that first drink."

I can't go back there - but I know the door is always open.

JL
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Aug 29, 2014 - 07:46pm PT
i've been courting wellness ...
You can be a really depressing guy to encounter here, Norwegian.
Sobriety Thread (off limits or what)?
IE drunks not welcome. Rokjox used to post here too, and they got erased.
I may like to post, but can see it more tight-ass than a hamas mosque on 24 hour lockdown.
Only platitudes and Kumbaya singing allowed.
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Aug 29, 2014 - 09:03pm PT
We support each other because we know all too well the pain of addiction.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 29, 2014 - 10:21pm PT
Haters gonna hate.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
Aug 29, 2014 - 11:50pm PT
'That's when I Listened, August 17th, 1989'

Am twenty five years clean and sober this month,
No fanfare,
Know I'm a drunk who's just not drinking,
Now my hearing is going and so is my thinking,

That Largo he tol' me to clean up my act,
In the Lodge parking lot '81 matter fact,
Why the fvck do I still remember that?
I never quite knew where my drinking was at,

In Eighty Nine I finally did,
My wife was out the door that day,
Left my spirit in the ocean somewhere,
Lost my soul on the open highway,

Hit an AA mtg a few years back,
I knew so few would keep coming back,
This atheist could only say his god was a rock,
It no longer fit,

It's different today,
Playing chess and monopoly with my youngest grandson,
He never knew I was a stoned hippie drunk,
Back in the seventies when I thought it was fun,

He whips my ass in sports at age nine,
Which is cool,
And fine,
So so fine.

-Bushman
08/29/2014
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
Aug 30, 2014 - 12:11am PT
'Ode to a Birthday


Your birthday comes,
Your birthday goes,
There's no disgrace,
Or birthday woes,

Live only once,
For all we know,
We know not where,
The years did go,

But lives we've lived,
And winds that blow,
Will always help,
The flowers grow,

As we may reap,
What we may sow,
With all our baggage,
Left in tow,

Another birthday,
You well know,
Means not to stop,
And not to slow,

But don't forget,
To watch the show,
With every tide,
And ebb and flow.


-Bushman
08/14/2014
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Sep 2, 2014 - 03:10pm PT
<rant>FURIOUS - the rest of the rant was redacted before I clicked the "post" button</rant>

GRRRRRRR.......Having a dry-drunk moment. I don't want to drink but have fantasized about driving my car off a precipice, or smashing the person whose behavior has made me furious in the face.

Partly due to working in high humidity heat for 8 hours, cooked well done, and and getting a call from supervisor moments before leaving for the day. Would it REALLY have been so difficult for him to have waited until the next available day to talk to me about a customer's complaint? Now my energy is buzzing with anger and the only cure will be to sleep it off.

Writing(sharing) is helping. Thanks, all you vicarious Sobriety Threaders....

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 2, 2014 - 03:36pm PT
Hang in there Happy!

Grab somethin good!

atleast you got a job, and no cat.

i don't have a job, and just got a kitten, and it's summertime in Josh.

!!YIIIIIKES!!!!!
MikeL

Social climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 2, 2014 - 04:21pm PT
I was a stoned hippie drunk,
Back in the seventies when I thought it was fun,

Good lines.


Good on everyone here.
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Sep 3, 2014 - 06:44am PT
For me this is pertinent to climbing. Drinking and drug use are a part of our sub-culture. Be careful youth. The power of substances can eclipse the joy of the activity.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Oct 30, 2014 - 06:31am PT
i take notes on my meandering relationship with alcohol.

the pattern for me, lately is this:

life is in order. bills paid. businesses thriving.
relationships hearty.

emotionally i celebrate my accomplishments
by f*#king off and drinking into oblivion.
i still take compromised care; i continue to push the cart.
though, understandably my achievements diminish
inversely proportional to the flow of my diesel.

then things come apart, slowly.
i see them fraying so i reel in the beast
and clean out the hydraulics because
i fear for the greater health of my father-sphere.

slowly shite coagulates and again i'm floating
on top of the pond, sc#m-like.

my heart reddens and i lean again towards celebrating
the shine all about me.

so i f*#k up. unf*#k up. and then repeat.

i propose to myself that alcoholism
really becomes a problem for me, if i continue
to micro-drink when i see things coming apart.

so i stop just long enough to get the ship a-righted,
and then i walk the plank thus upsetting the
center-of-life's-gravity and the ship tilts askew.

i only imbibe when there are rays of warm sun on my toes.

right now them toes are freezing and i'm staying out of adolf's bed.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 1, 2014 - 03:24pm PT
Bump for sobriety, n all it's shapes and colors.

I thought about having a drink once while I was in migration from the east coast. SO glad that it was a fleeting thought, that I was bedded down for the night(I am lazy and unlikely to get up once I'm comfy in bed), and that my next thought(I do talk to myself. Frequently, out loud and in my head) was "Ummm, bad thinking. Change topic!"
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 1, 2014 - 04:42pm PT
One year in ~nine weeks. Boom.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Dec 1, 2014 - 06:23pm PT
Cheering for you.

I know the holiday season is tough.

Edge

Trad climber
Betwixt and Between Nederland & Boulder, CO
Dec 1, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
Congrats, Bob!

New Years Day will be exactly 4 1/2 years for me, and just seeing this post again shocked me into remembering that oh yeah, I'm an alcoholic. I genuinely don't think like that anymore, it's not even in my realm of possibility.

I know it's not like that for everyone, but it will get easier regardless if you find what works for you and continue work it.

Keep up the good work!
Woody the Beaver

Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
Dec 1, 2014 - 07:11pm PT
I surprised myself this summer. Got to the top of Borah (idaho high point) with a couple of people I met on the hike up. We figured out the date from the summit register: August 15, my 12th anniversary of no flammable fluid intake! I'd forgotten! Man, am I grateful. One of my fellow summiteers that day is an old drug/drink refurb job like me and we had a laugh about it. Turned out we'd both known and admired Bill Forrest from long ago, and said RIP to that graceful guy. Good day to be high and sober.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 2, 2014 - 10:19am PT
BVB, you got around New Years? You brave dog, you! Or maybe it was "you tired dog, you" hahah Good Luck!
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Dec 2, 2014 - 12:44pm PT
Heyas gang.

I haven't posted on here in a while, but after reading back a bit I have seen a lot of talk lately about the good and bad in AA.

I was sober for about 2 years before I went to an AA meeting. It was a good thing that I did, because I was on the edge of picking up again. I spent the next few years in AA, and contribute that as an important part of my sobriety.

Keep in mind that my personal journey through AA was different then most; I didn't follow the "canon" to a T but took what I could use and set aside the rest. Everyone has the right to work their own program, and I had serious issues with the religious part of AA and never got into that. There was also a lot of hypocrisy and "us versus them" mentality in a lot of the rooms that I went to, and a huge amount of drama which is anathema to me. In the end, I couldn't find a room that didn't have these elements, and I set the meeting aspect of AA aside and continued my program with the added tools that I found in the rooms. It's continued to work for me for over 14 years now.

One thing that people should realize is that when AA was formed, religion was still a driving overall force in society. Nearly everyone went to church then and religion was taken as a social standard. Being as the books hold true to the original works, it will probably always be a part of AA. That doesn't mean that you have to accept that part - I have seen the religious aspect scare off a lot of people who truly need the help that AA can provide.

There has been mention here that "5 to 10% of people in AA succeed" but remember this - if there was no AA, that success would be 0% for some people.

It IS possible to attend AA, work the steps, and get sober without becoming religious or becoming a "book beater." So you shouldn't let that stop you from at least giving it a try. Like me, you can decide to attempt to work the program using what works for you and leaving aside what you can't come to terms with. But you need to accept the fact that your recovery may be harder, and you may not succeed the first few times.

The truth is that if you go to AA, and follow every single line, you will stay sober. You may only be a dry drunk, but you will be sober and can hopefully "fake it until you make it."

I am coming up on a trip which is probably going to stress some very deep and very emotional triggers for me. I am going back to my home town for the first time in over 10 years, and will be dealing with family and friends of my family that I haven't spoken to since I was a kid. I will have to deal with discussing the rift with my father, whom I have not spoken to in 20 years. All of these things are troubling to me, and I know that even with the time I have, I am going to have to be on "high alert." Even in longer term sobriety, you must never let your guard down.

The holiday season can be one of the toughest for those of us who are alcoholic. Stay strong, keep your phone close with a friend you can talk to, and take it one day at a time. Or a minute at a time. Or a second at a time. Strength and positive thoughts to you all.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 13, 2014 - 07:17pm PT
Hoh man, what a powerful movie!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 5, 2015 - 11:09pm PT
Whiskey. Todilhil, the Navajos had a named it. Water of Darkness if you translated that word into bilingaana language. But Navajos sometimes mispronounced it. Todilhaal, they'd say. Making it mean "sucking in darkness," and enjoying the wry irony of the pun. Death slept in the bottle, only waiting to be released.
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Jan 8, 2015 - 05:30pm PT
just checking in, seems there is a need
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 25, 2015 - 09:17pm PT
Nice work, Treez!
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jan 25, 2015 - 11:01pm PT
way to beez treez!
John M

climber
Jan 25, 2015 - 11:01pm PT
I'm glad that you are keeping your head on straight Treez.. Thats great news. Good on you mate.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Jan 26, 2015 - 12:53am PT
good work!

here is your 6 month chip,

the miracle is not that i do not drink, but that i have no desire to drink,

the message is hope, the promise is freedom,

and you don't have to climb with a hangover,

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 26, 2015 - 02:34am PT
1 year in about 2 1/2 weeks. My god what an epic 6 or 7 years it's been. Truly should be dead, or in prison.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 26, 2015 - 11:27am PT
Way to go, bvb - proud of you!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 26, 2015 - 12:14pm PT
Way to go American legend
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 26, 2015 - 12:21pm PT
My god what an epic 6 or 7 years it's been. Truly should be dead, or in prison.

Need more details.....
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
Congratulations on the six month mark Treez. As well to you, BVB, in your path.

I've been doing well, no thoughts of drinking or smoking, despite seeing plenty of it on a regular basis. I just got too good a deal when I signed on the dotted line. I hope I never forget that even for a second, because that's all it takes - one second of forgetting my commitment to sobriety - for it to all be over.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Jan 27, 2015 - 12:08am PT
it is my honor and privilege to present bvb with his one year chip,





Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Feb 15, 2015 - 01:48am PT
Had a good day yesterday. Spent time with the wife enjoying amazing weather, and taking two friends out climbing - one for the first time, the other's first time outdoors. I always enjoy getting the chance to share our amazing sport with others.

There was a time when I couldn't imagine going a day without a drink. My amazing day with my wife and friends marked 15 years sober. Couldn't be more thankful for the luck, support and strength I have received to make sobriety happen for me for so long.
Keep it up everyone - together we can do this.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Feb 15, 2015 - 02:04am PT
hey there say, treez... wow, congratulations!!!!


so very happy for you! keep up the good work, :)

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 15, 2015 - 04:48am PT
Solid work Treez, I felt so much stronger after several months off the sauce. First six mo was the hardest, then a lot of smooth sailing in the years since with one or two bad cravings during times of intense stress. Coming up on five years?(IIRC) in March, along with Jaybro in the same time frame. Originally planned on a year's break, finally admitted to myself that going back on it would be like before, but worse, and it was easy to stay off it at the year mark.

Little things, like this thread, can be a big help. It helped me, many times. When I finally quit, I was struggling, and Linda and Jay had words of encouragement when I really, really needed it. More than they realize, I bet.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Feb 15, 2015 - 07:09am PT
Hmmm , I didn't realize. Linda probably did, she's smarter than me. You seemed pretty on top of things, I took inspiration from you!

Hard to believe it's been almost five years!
Woody the Beaver

Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
Feb 15, 2015 - 08:24am PT
Thankster to da Hankster for the five years of this thread! Gratitude for another day!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 15, 2015 - 12:11pm PT
Yes, thanks to Hankster, for one of this site's most positive threads.

Met a woman on Day 21 the other day, who was so clearly flying on a Pink Cloud I felt giddy for her. What a time those early days were, when each experience seemed to be a first time one, and life was filled with mystery and magic. Glad I can recall having those feelings all these years later. I got a very good deal, when I signed on the bottom line of committing to getting sober.
Karen

Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
Feb 15, 2015 - 02:43pm PT
Feeling really down and just want to "escape", and not through alcohol other means. Yesterday was good but today I seem to not get that damn breakup behind me. Lonely and feeling hopeless, these happening on more days than not.
Hell I do everything people say to do and it just isn't working; I volunteer, workout, go to therapy but still in the sh#t can.
I want to get out of my house, go out to JT but still not sure If I can climb due to my foot issues. Am able to ride my bike and religiously doing so. Hope that venting here some of you guy/women can offer some insight. I don't think I am an addict, have no desire to drink, like I said above other means that I rarely indulge in-too afraid I might end up having to use on a regular basis.
Frankly, just want to sleep and not wake up.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 15, 2015 - 02:45pm PT
There's more to do in JT than just climb Karen. Come on out and I'll hang with you and hike as you can do.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Feb 24, 2015 - 05:14pm PT
the delusions have peaked.
the little lies,
they become truth.

psychological grip begins to slip.
the enjoyable mind circus
that usually stars coors is bankrupt.

i have begun to justify unreasonable risk,
on the rock and beyond.

i'm getting a c-.
barely passing each day.

now i love the brink;
peeking over into irreversible suffering,
only to reel back and laugh.

though the void down there begins to tug harder.
and each time i journey into,
a little bit less of me returns.

so a change is due,
actually way over due.

no harm has become of my ill habit;
at least not any tangible harm.

i probably could have been a better dad
the past few years,
but that will always be the case.

i still can love.
i almost lost that.
it was then i knew i had to stop.

there will be a time,
down many roads from here,
where i chip away at
my wayward destiny again.

i will unravel my vitality
and use the broken pieces
to build a throne;
it'll be a beautiful throne,
but i'll never sit in it.
i'll die next to it.

on the floor
like a little angel that don't want
to hover no more;

here's to day one.
of anyone's hell and mine, too.
drunkenmaster

Social climber
santa rosa
Feb 24, 2015 - 05:31pm PT
crazy how feb 15 got a lot of posts on this - it was a bad day for me, drunkenmaster. i never read this thread as i never had a big drinking problem until recently when the drinks got a bit too many too often. im taking a long needed break. i may even need to change my name now maybe :) im thinking stonedmaster might be more appropriate. thank god for positive threads at our st campfire. good on ya hankster. cheers without the beers ya'll!!

peace and love and respect.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 24, 2015 - 08:02pm PT

i dont want a drink
i think
burp
did sombody say cheers
what am i celebrating
alls i recall
its been nearly 3 days
since i seen my doll
my 8yo olive
not even a fucing call
her mom won't let me have
what i so earnestly produced
friendship
relationship
love
house
olive
home
hate
goin on 6 yrs
as counted in earths orbits
6 minutes
by the hearts pump
cheers
to the pump
the pumpity pump pump
for if it wasn't for that hump
i prolly end up a grump
or a chump
but no
i have olive
tomorrow at 3
let me see
who shall i be
quantifyably
its up to me
what shall i be
for it is destiny
that i remember yesterday
do i
burp
it's time to stop
start
belch


now add a question mark to the end of every line

BB?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 24, 2015 - 08:58pm PT
dafuq?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 24, 2015 - 09:27pm PT
my joker is gnome to
goin to mike's liquor
be back in too
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Feb 24, 2015 - 09:37pm PT
Note to Norwegian and Self,

We cannot quantify suffering. But if you truly want to take a walk on the wild side I would entreat you experience a second deeper level of even more nearly complete and almost total incomprehensible demoralization such as I had experienced at about five years sober.

It's not for everyone and certainly I would have chosen an easier route during that phase of my life if it had not included the caveat of witnessing or being unable to witness my untimely demise.

My friend, if I may call you that for I believe we are both afflicted with the same illness, our troubles of course lie not in the long trail of empties that litter the landscape of despair but in the deeper morass of personality disorders and character defects the likes of which no normal person would be required to dredge up and hold to the light to try and make any sense out of.
These deeper flaws of course are not unique to us but somehow along the way we have chosen unconsciously to treat them with prolonged alcohol immersion therapy.

I speak to you about this here more in the hopes that I not forget but also that you might take heart in the fact that you are not alone in your journey and should you so chose to seek out this former drunk and recovering alcoholic not for solace but so that you would be willing to give sobriety a more fervent go.

My fifth year sober was my darkest hour and because I would have chosen to die before I took another drink of alcohol, facing my difficulties stone cold sober was just that; cold, like being alone in a tomb, and sobering in that only I could walk through the painfull and helpless feeling of fully realizing that I had absolutely no control over the people, places, and things in my life.

It has been dark and difficult to go through the low points in my life sober, even with AA, friends, sponsors, service, seemingly futile prayer, and trying like hell to get out of my own way and still I felt as lost and hopeless as when I first walked into my first AA meeting with a monumental hangover and the full realization that I had probably permanently screwed up my relationship with the most important people in my life because I could not stop drinking.

And Weedge I have to tell you as much because I have to remember, there was no going back. The long romance with alcohol was over. She was to me then as she is now, like a wicked voodoo sister on a dark windswept volcanic landscape, hollow, dry, and wholly without any scintilla of future hope for a life worth living.

I could tell you of the many wonderfull and unexpected things that have come to pass since I found sobriety my friend, but it means nothing if I don't tell you of the many dark hours, when the ugly sour horned horse of the loneliest brand of sobriety reared it's ugly head.

So if it's harsh, humbling, self immolation of the rawest variety your looking for, try staying sober for long enough to go through some real sh#t without beers or weed or hardly a leg to stand on, literally. It's what's for breakfast with any long term sobriety and I'm inviting you and egging you on to give it a shot. Come with me if you want to live.

Out of love and friendship I implore you,
-bushman

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Feb 24, 2015 - 11:39pm PT
dafuq?
Good forum moderation right there.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 24, 2015 - 11:59pm PT
ask any old timer who relapsed, what did they learn?

they learned not to take that first drink, no matter what,

but how do you know if you are an alcoholic?

if you have ever woken up with a sunburn on the roof of your mouth,

if you have ever been arrested while in jail,

if you have woke up with a circus midget in your bed,

if you have been run over by your own car while driving it,

if you have ever danced the Tennessee Waltz while in a straight jacket,

then you might be an alcoholic,

what's the difference between an alcoholic and a non alcoholic?

alcoholics drink more,

why is it that non alcoholics don't become alcoholics?

lack of will power, stamina, concentration,

there is a gap of AA members in the 2 to 10 year range of sobriety,

maybe some of them are still sober but quit going to meetings,

probably most quit growing spiritually, when growth stops, recovery stops, you get into a rut and quit the program, so you have to keep working on it,

or else booze will come back and work on you,





Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Feb 25, 2015 - 02:04am PT
right on.
a good lot, here.

thank you bushman for the encouragement and good sentiment;

your tale brings me to a painful self-inquiry:
do i really seek suffering?
as a state,
as i state?
or am i a f*#king coward
that chooses the easy path
and justifies it with stupid and shallow poetry?

and blue your share also strikes the treble cleft
of my sob song.

i'm done f*#king around.
every ass kicking i got, i deserve.
it's time to shine a little,
polish up the chrome and
knock some dents out.

and g, and sprock and treez and everyone else
here tellin' tale of our crooked trail,
these stories could be a ballet.

one of metamorphosis,
a heroic tragedy of superheroes stumbling along a
a symphonic march,

running with demons.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Mar 3, 2015 - 04:44am PT
blowin' the lid off of wellness, over here.
doin alright.
a week out and i got a raise
and a new job assignment
(parking garage in sunnyvale)

no more tree work, for the time being.
my body is destroyed.

like a core-shot,
i'm pretty much just a sheath
of a man.

i do got verve spilling all over the place, though.
i'm even givin some to my neighbor.

tax man hit me a 12 grand bill,
i'm f*#ked financially.

physically i'm also f*#ked.
can't sleep fer shite.
my back is out, maybe broke.
my asse is purple, maybe broke.
i can't even push out a fart with severe grimacing.

my spirits sunk.
i ain't drinkin, though.

i gotta lean on the ol' engineering degree,
which i abhor to employ
because sitting in my chair all
day, indoors typing and staring down a screen
is absolutely deflating.

but the money is rolling in,
i got 12 grand to pay off.

anyway,
all this is more easily swallowed
when my pipes they aint irrigating
adolf's piss.

i've learned that a man who hates life
is quite protected and resilient,
for though the shite around his ankles
keeps getting thicker and deeper,
his stride means nothing to him
so the cruel universe lacks
means at his dying soul.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2015 - 09:37am PT
Oh, forgot to mention picked up a year a couple of weeks ago. Yay me!
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Mar 3, 2015 - 09:40am PT
Nice work Treez, keep it up!

BVB - super stoked for you man. That second year can be a bitch because your brain starts working again. Stay strong and talk if you need to, OK? Really proud of you.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Mar 3, 2015 - 10:25am PT
H&I

Best thing that happened to me for long-term sobriety was after about a year or two I volunteered to do H&I meetings through AA once a month (hospitals and institutions). I did those meetings off and on for about eight years until it felt like I was doing time with the inmates and then I stopped. I spent a lot of years drinking and trying to stay out of those places so it was one of the most frightening obstacles in my sobriety. If you're fortunate and don't have a big rap sheet getting cleared to attend meetings in institutions is not a hard thing. The hard part is voluntarily going through the security checks and locked gates into the heart of a prison where you feel somewhat vulnerable. Until you realize how lucky you are that with each and every visit you get to go home to a life free of the misery and insanity of incarceration. It's not as hard to want to stay sober at any cost after that.

I'll never forget it and the memory has served to help me stay sober for many years.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2015 - 12:39pm PT
Congratulations on your year, BVB!!!

Norwegian - Don't know what to say, as in the past you've made poetry that seems heartfelt and then you say it's all made up. AsGomer Pyle once said, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." Wish you the best, no matter

I still consider myself an AA'er, but rarely go to meetings. I do have some guilt about not being there for the newcomer, but I do feel I act the Twelfth Step, being here for those reaching out for help, in real life(and even here on ST!). I fell off the "regular-meetin' goin'" when I got a dog walk client that conflicted with my meeting times, almost all of which were at 7pm. The walk was 30m at 7, which gave me just enough time to miss the speaker and announcements at meetings and get there for the whining...errr, I mean sharing.

Still carry the last Anniversary Coin I received in my wallet- it is IX, so that does make me one of those in the Two to Ten Years MIA. The good news is that I have stayed sober(and drug free) since, and I am at 18.5 years now. Holy cow - that seems unreal at times. I am grateful. I cannot imagine how bad it would be if I hadn't gotten sober, but I am pretty sure it would be quite unattractive.

People say that if you slip, you pick up right where you left off, as if you never had a day sober. I've heard a few who got resober say that wasn't the case for them, but it is one experience I hope I never have to encounter. I don't mind the uncertainty of knowing if I would immediately go back to being a blackout drinker with a big mouth, drinking home alone, talking to nobody but myself, or if I could be sociable in public and stop before the third drink, at least for a while.... Some questions are better left unanswered!
Stevee B

Trad climber
Oakland, CA
Mar 3, 2015 - 01:20pm PT
Celebrated 25 years last Tuesday. H&I is my cornerstone. I rarely attend more than one meeting a week; My wife is not in the program and I don't think more meetings would improve much. I get the most out of attending that one meeting with a focus on bringing a cheerful and helpful spirit to the suffering I meet there, new or not so new. Two H&I meetings a month remind me where I came from and that I can't do it alone. Best of all is I recruit two newer guys per H&I to come with me, which helps me forge new connections constantly and keep me socially connected to the fellowship in what for me is the "right" way.
So yeah, x2 for the H&I recommendation.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 26, 2015 - 03:48pm PT
Nice Steve B, congrats!
Five years for me, two days ago, on the 24th, almost spaced it!

Where does the time go?
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Mar 26, 2015 - 04:19pm PT
Grats Jaybro and HUGE grats Steve, thanks for the inspiration.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 26, 2015 - 05:30pm PT
Congratulations Jaybro! I almost forgot my anniversary last year too - made me a little sad. Glad I DID remember during the actual day.

Somebody I have been around recently has slipped, with 20 years sober under their belt. I don't know them well, but when they told me they were drinking again, they said "I was 25 when I quit. How do I know that it just wasn't stupid youthfulness at play?"

I was glad that I never had that idea about my own drinking days, but then I had a grandmother die from alcoholism, and saw my mother's deterioration. I have seen the ghost of Christmas past, present and future when it comes to my drinking. This slipper person says they aren't "done with this run yet," but they already look like hell to me. I hope they won't stay drinking long, but statistics show it tends to take a while, if ever, to regain a foothold on sobriety.
Stevee B

Trad climber
Oakland, CA
Mar 26, 2015 - 06:22pm PT
Firing, Jaybro! Five years is a long time.
So welcome, Vegas, thanks for saying so. Feels good to hear that.

Sorry about your acquaintance Happie. You know I know that story. Literally dozens of friends down that road now, with very few good results, though one or two are OK.

On the brighter side, I see several dozens of my friends from my first year on FB, still doing the deal and shining bright. Million dollar program for sure.


pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Mar 26, 2015 - 07:39pm PT
Yeah! Good for all of you. Life is good, I almost forgot I'm good too.
John Burns

climber
Pothole, Utah
Mar 26, 2015 - 07:42pm PT

anyway,
all this is more easily swallowed
when my pipes they aint irrigating
adolf's piss.

cheers to you dry-folk. someday, I'll quit wetting my soul.
Poloman

Trad climber
Anna, Il
Mar 26, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
Hankster
With each passing day your endeavor will get easier. The hardest part is the change in routines and the way you socialize. It is very worthwhile.
Eventually, it will become effortless.
I have been sober for 31 years. For a very long time it has been effortless. I am so happy that I stopped when I did.
I am old enough that, by now, I would have been feeling the ill effects.
If you can do a month, you can go the distance. After a while, it won't even bother you.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 27, 2015 - 12:40am PT
Psyched to see everyone is doing so well.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 27, 2015 - 06:07pm PT
^^^looks like the best day eva:-)
two days for meez
and i'm runnin with it
no more stumbl'in
Thank youz for the inspirationz

3dayz.
couldn't sleep w/out routine 72oz'z
Olive'z bday tomorrowz
shez gettin a new dad
Cheerz
tremorz all day
took two handz to steer a pencil
only one thought on my mindz
and it aint balloonz
i m so d e p r e z z e d
May 6,
Had to jump back so as to count the days since the last time I was in a daze

10 TEN!!!!!!!!!! BOWWWwww!

The last 3 were rather easy being sick in bed:-(
Psyched to have my high times come strictly through breathe:-D
And I got all this extra money too nobody mentioned that$
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Apr 27, 2015 - 06:16pm PT
hey there say, all... great to hear all the updates...

wonderful new ways for you to feel good, now...

keep up the great work... :)
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 27, 2015 - 08:41pm PT
Having just had a climbing visit by a very dear, sober, friend made me really appreciate what I have and all the many ways that sobriety is the way for me!


Now my roommate.... Last night the sound of cracking pbr's sounded almost like hail! This morning the new toaster oven was in the backyard. I guess he showed it!

Go Bluockr!!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 28, 2015 - 05:24am PT
Way to go, Blublockr.


The toaster oven story reminds me of a wonderful story one of the elder guys shared at a meeting. He was a debonair white-haired defense lawyer. Not the stereotypical oily kind getting baby-killers off, but the kind that believed with all his soul in the intent of the justice system; that all deserved a FAIR trial. Even a baby-killer.


So he tells of his last drunk, how he walked into the elevator of his Upper West Side high rise, and was immediately confronted by a POLAR BEAR! Standing tall and surely intent on mauling him.

Well, he fought back, and he fought, but he couldn't recall how he had survived.

How he ended up in jail, he wasn't sure, but apparently he put two and two together, when he was questioned once he'd slept it off. It seemed a little impossible to believe to himself, the idea that a polar bear was loose in NYC, in an elevator.....But he told his story nonetheless.

When the detective explained that he'd attacked a woman who had been wearing a full length white fur coat, he understood what had happened, that he was an alcoholic and his life had become unmanageable.....
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 28, 2015 - 11:37am PT
Hoh man! I've heard of pink elephants before but elevator cruising, polar bears?

So, I felt bad that that brave little toaster had to die for another's problems, so I fished him out of th garbage last night. I set him up this morning and made sourdough rye toast with almond butter, yum! I'll see if he's still with us or back in the gulag shortly, although at 12:30 it's probably too early for the executioner to be cognizant yet.....
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
May 30, 2015 - 07:14pm PT
I have not been on your side of this fight.

I am trying to console my daughter who just heard that her former fiance just died, very young. He had so much to offer. 35 is too young to die from the bottle, by the bottle. He wasted away to under 100 pounds on his 6'2" frame. He was a very likable, charismatic man. We embraced him as part of our family because she loved him, and we became fond of him.

I hear the guilt in my daughter's voice - why could she not inspire him to get sober? perhaps she gave up on him too soon? not soon enough? I tell her it had to come from within him. You can't choose for someone else. I hear her voice - and I can tell she thinks Mom is just trying to console her, but somehow she should have been able to do more for him.

He lost her, his business, his house. He returned to his parent's home to live. They reached out to each other from time to time. He never gave up the bottle. She offered friendship, but not the romance they enjoyed before.

I am not surprised to cry for her and the useless guilt she feels. I am surprised at how I am crying for him. I imagine how lost he and hopeless he felt.

I can't change this. This is the third death too young in our family in the last year.

FOr those of you who do struggle, know how much you are loved, and how those who love you have no idea how to help you. You matter.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 30, 2015 - 11:38pm PT
Nice sentiments Seamstress. And suprema!

i can't believe it's only been 35 days SOBER for me. Feels like its been 35 years worth of experiences condensed in those 35 days : ) compared to the prior 3yrs feeling like one drunk'in day : (
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 31, 2015 - 12:09am PT
Thanks Treez!

Give ur friend a "BEST THING I EVER DID" from me too!

AND one from my daughter tooz
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
May 31, 2015 - 01:21am PT
18 months on the 26th, still hitting 2 or 3 meetings a day, the longer i stay sober, the closer i am to my next drink, my life fits inside a shot glass, what did i have to change? nothing but everything, soul building takes work, but so does drinking, still have problems but they are twice as easy to deal with than with the sauce, fear will keep you sober for a little while, when that wears off, we have to work with others to get out if our selves, otherwise, we are back on relapse boulevard, dang, gotta ditch the user friends, them or me, no more runnin with the pack,
restraint is my number one priority as i cease to fight anyone or anything,
weed helped, had fun, but i smoked like i drank, when i run out, there i go to the liquor store, gotta get a substitute for that life, gotta change my perception of the world, ran my own life, ended up tore up from the floor up, need a new manager, otherwise i'm toast,
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
May 31, 2015 - 05:57am PT
Well put
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 31, 2015 - 10:26am PT
Seamstress, I am sorry for your sadness and your daughter's pain. Suprema wrote it right, though of course "knowing" those words are right doesn't do much to help us feel the rightness.

I have gone to just a few Al-Anon meetings, but when I did, the ability to comprehend the simple truthfulness in my powerlessness over the alcoholic/their disease was instantaneous, and the relief was considerable. Nothing like sitting in a room full of others dealing with just the same sort of issues to find consolation and acceptance that it is/was not our fault.


I'm doing good, sobriety-wise. In just under three months will be my 19th year anniversary, so long as I don't make the terribly poor choice of having a drink. I've waded through the pull of enough emotional tides now to feel confident that I can deal with life, no matter what comes, but even so, I don't take my luck in sobriety for granted. It could all be wiped away in a second.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jun 1, 2015 - 01:30pm PT
Thanks.

Convinced her that a little outdoor therapy would give her some outlet for her stress. She finally got outdoors and argued with the sky. Everyone has a struggle putting one foot in front of the other nearly every day.

Wishing peace for all.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Jun 9, 2015 - 12:54pm PT
'Happiness in Short Supply'

In days gone by when I used get high,
Depleting all the world's supply,
I scared the pusher outa his mind,
When I shouted "More Weed!" in words unkind,
He slammed that door right in my face,
And the very next day he deserted the place,
Then I had a mind to quit that dope,
The cigarettes, booze, and the cannabis rope,
I went cold turkey and my wife did say,
"I like you way much better this way!"
And I ain't looked back got no regrets,
Cause the liquor and weed and the cigarettes,
Were makin me crazy and makin me sad,
Them fractures and stitches were hurtin real bad,
But none of my worries ever compared,
To troubles and woes of those that cared,
And the look they gave me was so sad,
Such wild and wicked ways I had,
So I gave it all up and turned a new leaf,
And saved us then so much grief,
So I don't smoke weed or partake of drink,
And really don't care much what folks think,
Ive smoked my share and drank my fill,
From Timbuktu to over the hill,
And really don't mind if other folks do,
Cause the grass is still green and the sky's still blue.

-bushman
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 9, 2015 - 01:18pm PT
THAT'S a Beuty :^D
Edge

Trad climber
Betwixt and Between Nederland & Boulder, CO
Jul 1, 2015 - 08:19pm PT
Almost forgot!

Five years today. Yay me, and stuff.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 1, 2015 - 09:43pm PT
Yay Edge!
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 1, 2015 - 10:05pm PT
1750 High Fives to ya Edge:)




Dr Sprock,,, How U dew'in??
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Jul 2, 2015 - 02:45am PT
doing fine, listening to Erik L from Edmonton, use to sleep in a dodge dart and drink horse piss,

360 tapes here for download>

http://www.aaspeakers.org/AA_Speaker_Tapes

Wesley P from Pompano is A#1 check it out,

have a great weekend,

coolrockclimberguy69

climber
Jul 31, 2015 - 01:02pm PT
16 days. Feels like 30.

I'm going to be honest, I feel like a worthless peice of sh#t.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Jul 31, 2015 - 01:16pm PT
I say this with all the love in my heart that I can muster and for someone who is obviously laying it out there, truth be told.
Sometimes feeling like sh#t obviously beats the alternative.
Truth is good too.
I think you know where I'm going with this.
hippielogger

climber
Townsend,Mt
Jul 31, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
Hey CRCG69,
Right now it's like learning to an incredibly challenging new job, on top of all the other stuff you have to do. We've all been there and felt that way. Be proud of the hard work you're doing. Own it!
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Aug 3, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
^^^ Hello there brotha-man. :-D
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 5, 2015 - 02:09pm PT
Countdown to my 19th anniversary in three weeks. I remember back in early sobriety looking at the "old-timers" with 18 years with amazement, wondering how on earth they had been able to stay sober that long. Interestingly, it doesn't feel like it has been so long at all to me. I feel more like a bit over five years. Tie flies when you're able to remember it!

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Aug 5, 2015 - 02:15pm PT
i don't know. if i could
give a dip of advice to
a young, clean soul,

it might be something like this:

"don't f*#k with your chemical stasis.
because once you upset it,
you'll spend the rest of your life
trying to reattain it."
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 5, 2015 - 04:08pm PT
Good job Edge! and happie. My 9th comming up aug 25th.
Woody the Beaver

Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
Aug 15, 2015 - 11:58am PT
13 years today! Thanks for all the laughs over the years, fellow adventurers! Last year, i forgot to notice the anniversary until a nice young lady on the top of Mt. Borah pointed out the date! Thanks, Rachel! Cheers to all,

Woody
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Aug 15, 2015 - 01:09pm PT
On Near Twenty Six Years Sober

08/17/1989,
I woke that day to some clarity.
It was as if someone woke me by dumping a wheelbarrow full of bricks onto my face.
The epiphany was,
I was in some serious sh#t with the family, the wife, the heart, the health, the mind, and my life.
The result?
I got help.
Am still learning that almost everything I need, I already have in the first place,
less the addictions and compulsions,
plus more than I could ever have dreamed of.
But,
I discovered that most of my problems were of my own making.
The rest?
It’s just what happens to most of us along the way.
And,
my sobriety date lives on in the infamy of my mind,
That’s a good thing.
Plus the living sober reality of experiencing life.
Good experiences and bad experiences,
but still,
it’s a life.
Oh sure there is always more to want out of life.
But who could expect more than living?

-bushman
coolrockclimberguy69

climber
Aug 15, 2015 - 08:45pm PT
thanks for the stoke, hippielogger. after three weeks it got a LOT easier.

made it a whole month as of last thursday (i think?). i was at a friend's bbq tonight and i fell off the wagon in two ways. i had some ribs and a bacon wrapped stuffed jalepeno (i'm a vegetarian but it was tasty) and i made a jack-lemonade-tonic which i consumed. that was it though. i just finished my drink and went home. didn't even get that buzzed but still didn't get any urges to keep drinking. i'm pretty proud of myself for going a month, though. i had a really nice epiphany the other night while i was driving around and thought "it is not possible for me to get a dui right now."
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 15, 2015 - 09:25pm PT
Just checked my sobriety counter and I've 1 1/2 years tomorrow! Awesome life, chock-a-block full of "24 karat regular-people problems." It's marvelous when you don't bother to even keep track anymore. But I am gonna pick up that "whiner chip!"
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 16, 2015 - 06:20am PT
I was about as tempted as could be, the last few days. There was a bad personal situation that I Coud have just numbed and tried to avoid with say a pint of vodka. But I didn't, and im feeing better just living through it.

Thank gawd for rock climbing!!!

I think climbing may be my 'higher power'
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Aug 16, 2015 - 07:17am PT
Right on guys and gals!
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Aug 16, 2015 - 10:28am PT
This just out, 33 days. Girlfriend no likey me drink. Hasn't been the first one . Gave it up, took it out of the equation. Feel better being a real person for her. She's ecstatic,I don't feel like sh#t some mornings, my mind feels clearer and I feel mature, go figure. Oh and my belly has shrunk ! I would sell any beer industry stock you hold before they get wind of this new development. For some reason I can't stay away from macaroni and cheese though, and chocolate. HELP !!!!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 20, 2015 - 08:19am PT
Nice work Penns!
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Aug 20, 2015 - 09:01am PT
i'll grab a reign
pull this wagon up
the hill for a spell.

the wifey gave me the ultimatum:
either she or the drink has got to go.

I like her more.

now got me one of those
mornings where my melancholy
collides with stress
which collide with
the detox hormones
and general confusion
blankets me with
dark thoughts.

oh the lovely hell within my heart.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 20, 2015 - 09:55am PT
It's a start!
The journey of a thousand miles....
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Aug 20, 2015 - 10:49am PT
08/17/1989

Having contemplated my experience,
Having ingurgitated unequivocally on a road not unlike Norwegian's road,
Well, not all the same little side roads and scenery,
Not all the little bumps or steep mountain grades,
Nor even all the little dips and deep valleys,

But at the centerline of mutual death I've stared,
At the participate experience we've risked,
Where with minor swerve or misstep the serpentine tragedy of Nephthys unfurls to plunge her viperous claws through sinew, nerves, and bone,

Or if not with merciful death she would leave us lingering to lie awake to waste to rot,
Exploding our swollen organs slippery and brown,
The purple veinous puss bloated skin rupturing and spilling gangrenous lime ripe stench,
About the empty room,
Where our last breaths to take,
Our tear ducts dried and puffing dust to hitchhike onto the humid vaporous fumes of our wet brained last exhalations,

I believed that the one good woman I ever loved,
Had walked out of my life for good,
Good on her I said,
And I drank as yet my final bender,
Stacking the bottles high,
Onto my rickety homemade desk,
With cinder blocks and shelves of gray,
There were red ones and green ones and hues of blue,
Bottles of beer from England to Mexico,
From Amsterdam to Tokyo,
And from Dublin no doubt,

Sudzenly the red brick of the dawn horizon dawned down on me,
Me and the fried sick pain brain of my alcoholic beer infected bodily tissues,

Of course it was all only for effect,

Alone alone alone at last,
No woman or kinders to pester me,
Or to give warm embrace and laugh,
Or to see my eyes seeing in their eyes what love we had,
What love we felt,
What love,

Oh gone she was,
What love she was,
And I alone at last,
To drink myself to death,
A lonely bitter alcoholic numb and selfish death,

F*#k all that.
How would I learn to live with myself?
How does a person learn to rectify past mistakes?
How can they live by themselves with themselves and being alcoholic, decide to live and not drink, and not die alone from the drinking?
Such an ugly, desperate, lonely, sickening death.

It's was a choice.
I wanted to live.

And she came back,
And she wanted nothing to do with watching me dying.
And she was ready to leave me again,
Before letting me take her over that centerline,
One more time again.

-bushman


Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 20, 2015 - 10:55am PT
Best of luck to those recently quitted, and on the 1.5, BVB!

Good for you, Jaybro, for choosing not to drink.

I have my next anniversary coming next Wednesday; 19 years it will be. I cannot believe how lucky I have been. Plenty of people have worked a lot harder than me to stay away from drinking and still succumbed. Nonetheless, if I try to imagine what my life would be like had I picked up somewhere along this continuum, I don't see something very enticing. Yes, I did like the lushy feeling of being drunk, but I can say for sure that I would be one yucky lush. Not someone others would want to be forced to tolerate.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 09:38am PT
19 years sober, today. It often feels like just a few months have gone by since "that day," but so much has happened since. Don't miss the drinking, one bit. (But notice that I NOTICE that I don't drink....still crazy, after all these years...).
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Aug 26, 2015 - 12:01pm PT
Good going grrl. I must be one of the lucky ones because the thought never even enters my mind. Ever. As though ETOH does not even exist. Of course, I paid a high price for that blessing.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 8, 2015 - 07:09pm PT
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Sep 10, 2015 - 06:57pm PT
cowboy the moon weeps for me.

tonight i pledged to my two daughters:

"let the hills be my witness,
i'll not take another sip of
beer or otherwise alcohol for
the next 5 years."

my little Annapurna spoke up:

"dad. don't do 5. wait until
your 50, cause i turn 21 two days
after you turn 50. then
we can have one together."

that's good ceremony
and a worthy goal,
so i tacked on an additional 4 years,
what the hell?.

now i'm an alcoholic on pause
for the next 9 years.

my 40th year closes in a month,
and it has been extraordinary in
many regards.

but i'm keen for an inner-culture
change so i'm taking one.

it's too little, too late
in some regards,
and too much, too soon
in others.

i got tons of vigor
and its gotta course somewhere.

i'll put it into my parenting
and perhaps drop down some
structured prose, or what not.

i'm gonna climb a little harder
and take good care of
my two companies.

and just try to get along
with and thus launch
my budding children into
adulthood.

in ten years, though,
watch out.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 10, 2015 - 09:55pm PT

tonight i pledged to my two daughters:

It's great to put pledges out there from us adults to the young generation. You staying true to the pledge over the days and years as they keep tally will unequivocally become more important to them than to you. And honor and dignity will be your reward : D

Funny there's never any honor OR dignity in starting to drink ; /
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 11, 2015 - 03:36am PT
Holy shitz. aug 25th came and went and i totally spaced my 9th bday. happies must have been arround then as well. hope everyone is doing ok!
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
Sep 11, 2015 - 07:23am PT
Norwegian.



Susan
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Sep 16, 2015 - 06:33am PT
ah innithat cute.
sons and daughters everywhere
enjoying fresh dads
the dust only in our past.

gleaming present, much better for all.

except for me.
i want.
more.

a week into to my 10 year counter-binge;

i used to just hate life,
now i love hating life.

songs sound sour.
sunrises lack candor.
sleep is fitful.

a deep ebb in inspiration.
limp libido.

ahh inn'that cute,
i got my inner-culture change;
i'm saving my marriage,
sparing my liver,
insulating the wallet,
smiling at cops,
perking up my fathering-glands.
making money,
happy clients.

even my gas smells better.

f*#k sobriety,
i'm its slave for
9 more years.

but i earned my sentence
and i'll see it through.

steadfastly shoving a silken reality
down eternity's bramble path.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
Sep 16, 2015 - 08:31am PT
Treez and Weedge.

A pub or a spa?


Susan

Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Sep 16, 2015 - 07:17pm PT
This may be one of the more important threads on ST, certainly for those of us who feel alcohol gets the best of us.
Thanks to all for sharing their efforts at the alternative lifestyle whether it's your first week or nineteen years. (Way to go happiegirl!)
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Sep 16, 2015 - 09:33pm PT
One of the things that has been helpful to me over the years is the refrain, "the insanity of the first drink." Whenever I feel the slightest urge about John Barlycorn, I recall those days of waiting outside a 7/11 in the morning, waiting for 6am to roll around so I could get a 12-pack and maybe get a few hours of sleep. One drink and I'd be right back there.

JL
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Sep 16, 2015 - 10:16pm PT
I remember bribing a Circle K guy 100 bucks to sell me a pint of vodka at 2:15 in the morning. But those hours waiting for someplace to open at 6am...trying to pay with hands shaking so badly I could not hold or open my wallet...good lord.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 16, 2015 - 11:24pm PT
Weeg that gave me goosebumps.

Print on Brother 8^D
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Sep 19, 2015 - 06:36am PT
the subtle rumblings
of my addiction rise
just before the sun;

certain songs,
[Click to View YouTube Video]
especially herald my yearnings,

and i sincerely
want to just go sit
by the lapping
lake shore and
f*#k around while
watching the sun
climb the far
side of the mountain.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Sep 19, 2015 - 06:39am PT
Yes.
This is true, my friend.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Sep 20, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
I don't drink anymore - but then again, I don't drink any less.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 20, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
^amen, slurrrrrp
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 20, 2015 - 10:26pm PT
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Sep 21, 2015 - 12:08am PT
Transitioning Sober

Adjusting to mainstream society after being sober for a bit and being surrounded by 'normal' friends, family, and work can be a difficult time. There are triggers to drink and use too numerous to mention and my own experience is a good example of this. Luckily my path was through AA and volunteering for service with them in several capacities, the most difficult of which was volunteering to go into AA mtgs at Folsom and Mule Creek state prisons as a guest or guest speaker about once a month for eight years through AA's hospitals and institutions program (H&I). It completely opened my eyes and drove home the severe implications of what a single moment of bad judgement or relapse could mean for an alcoholic or addict. I discovered through conversations with inmates that a person didn't always have to become a hardened criminal to wind up sentenced to hard time in a penal institution. Three Strikes legislation has made it possible for multiple drug dealing or possession convictions to get one sentenced to a year or more, along with multiple DUI and/or DUI manslaughter convictions as well.

At a regular AA meeting on the outside one time I met and heard the story of a woman who volunteered go to meetings in woman's institutions on a regular basis. She told the story of how H&I service had literally saved her life. She was a young government employee and career woman with a husband and two small children, she had a problem with alcohol, but didn't believe she was an alcoholic. One night after work she was driving home alone drunk in a blackout when she ran over and killed a small child. She was arrested and convicted on manslaughter charges and was sentenced to two years in a woman's correctional facility, but she was sent to a state hospital to serve out her sentence after being diagnosed with severe depression. During that time her husband divorced her, he took custody of her two children, and she attempted suicide twice by cutting her wrists because she could not live with the guilt of having taken the innocent life of a child and the pain of losing her family over it because of her mistake.

She talked about how she began going to AA in the institution and learning about the H&I program. She began attending AA meetings regularly on the outside after her release, and after a short period sober she got a security clearance through H&I, and began attending the different prison and institution meetings. She attested to the fact that without volunteering in this way she would not have been able to come to terms with the terrible guilt she had learned to live with. Fortunately after several years sober she found a new job in a civil service position and was able to get shared custody and be with her children again.

I don't think I have ever heard a more poignant example of how a seemingly ordinary person could so quickly find themselves on the wrong side of everything and lose all hope of ever living a normal life. What would be a gradual decline for many alcoholics and addicts was a sudden and violent upheaval for her, the likes of which might have spelled her undoing. It really hit home with me. I realized that after so many years sober i was still only one drink away from being a drunk again, I was also one drink away from losing anything and everything that was dear to me. The taste of liquor in my mind had been replaced with the idea that it tasted of death, if not instantaneous, then gradually by degrees until I would lose health, family, sanity, and any modicum of self respect I had gained back after so many years sober.

The triggers to drink are still there for me; I recognize them but do allow them to affect my behavior drastically, I do not peruse the liquor isle or think romantically about the certain high of a drink or a drug, I do not linger at social gatherings where drinking friends are imbibing beyond my requisite polite stay and I always make my farewells certainly well before the obnoxious drunken stage of some participants. I do not try to prop up, rescue, or bail out drunk friends or try to preach to those who have no interest in getting sober.

These are things that work for me and I am able to negotiate delicate family situations with more tact than in years past by getting out of the way. I will buy liquor as a gift for friends or family members on special occasions but do not imbibe. It holds no attraction for me. I do not recommend this for any newly sober person in recovery, it is a sure trap that will get most nubes and some old timers drunk again. I do not drink near beer, Odouls, or virgin mixed drinks, and always snif test my sparkling cider (substitute for champaign) at any formal toast before I drink it. I drank and used alcoholically and addictively for twenty years before I got sober.

I have been clean and sober continuously for twenty seven years since. I don't do meetings regularly any more because I don't feel comfortable anymore in them, but I did do regular AA mtgs for twenty years because I definitely did need them. Though I seldom lose my temper I sometimes do, or say or write or post something insensitive from time to time. If I catch myself or it is pointed out to me I try to own up to it. I make the occasional social faux pau from time to time, but this is not about me. It's about sobriety and living sober, and trying to let anyone know who is trying to come to grips with it that there are techniques that work for some, but not for others. I'd say it's a lot like climbing in that respect, and it's a transition, like going from offwidth to lie backing, then to stemming, and finally coming off as you slap the dyno on the lip, and hopefully stick to pull the mantle. I'm not pulling mantles anymore, but I'm still sticking with sobriety. I hope that if you want it and need it but are having any doubts, you can stick with it too.

-bushman
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Sep 21, 2015 - 12:17am PT
spoke at a speaker meeting last friday, first time, 60 people, everything was cool until i got to the part about being hungover at Sambo's and hurling on a grill full of food that the replacement cook unknowingly sent out, for some reason that was a turn off, what a mushroom cloud o puke,

so i followed that with the time the CHP threw me up against the wall so hard at the Stockton jail that i crapped my pants and had to wonder around in the freezing cold for two days until the wrecking yard opened so i could get my car back, that cab probably still stinks, took the skin off my legs, real fun times, get the car back and pick up a 12 pack and start out looking for another DUI,

then the CHP outside yuba city clocking me at 120 on 99, i get out of car and run, cop knocks me down with his open door, too old to chase me, then the billy club to the shoulder and face plant, wake up in hospital, yank tubes and run but cop hand cuffs me to gurney,

then there was the face plant crash and DUI on my bicycle, stanford hospital, los altos cop writing ticket as i wake up with stitches, made the san jose merc the next morning,
Pedaling While Pickled,

on 3....everything is beautiful...in it's own way...

got a new boss, new group of friends, 2 meetings a day,

lose the steps 1 at a time, quit going to meetings, get complacent,
get struck by lightening, next time out always worse, never better,

i don't have to quit forever, just 10 more years maybe, 17 hours at a time because i can sleep now,

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Sep 21, 2015 - 03:15am PT
I work with a guy who thought he could have the ocasional drink. he is back to drinking every day.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Sep 21, 2015 - 06:06am PT
i got ten years lower case,
self-imposed. actually
my celestial wife gently,
uh, encouraged me with
lazer beams from her heart,

but on my own i promised
my daughters a 10-year dry run,

then after that i cop,
and bade the whole lot farewell,
anna will be 21 and maki 19,
and to hell i'll travel, alone.

in the next ten, sober years
my empire will expand,
my liver will idle,
my brain will fire on time and time again,
and i'll leave my two youths
with some commodities.

then after that,
after that first round of beer
with my twenty-something daughter,
after 10 years sober,
i'm to get on my bike
and pedal north. up the
pacific coast. thru
California, then Oregon,
Canada, and i'll stop in
Alaska in late fall,
put down a deposit on
a small cabin and
lite a fire,
put my aching feet up,
stock up on some reading
and winter over
while drinking heavily.

mostly in my private digs,
i'll drink alone.
with my heart bouncing off the floor
though occasionally i'll
drink in the pub,
where i can polish my
social knob hopefully
against something other
than the floor,

and her eyes, though
they'll be yellow with
jaundice and gaunt
with too much sorrow,
i will find in her gaze
the blue truths of
her yesterdays, pre-alcoholism
and we'll make
drunken, bad-breath mostly
limp love in my dusty
disease crib and in the morning
we'll have greasy eggs and
frozen hash-browns as
her boob rests on her knee
and my tongue is dry and
caked with hate
and we'll both wonder
of the days when we used
to shine in the sand
like micah and i'll
remember my prouder ascents
and she, her perky breasts
and me my happy heart,
now all sold to
blanketing the ache.

ahh, my future looks bright.

then one day my two loving daughters
will show up at my cabin door,
and they'll be strong and
beautiful and full of the life
they made holding a cup full
of the life i sold them,

my youngest will be an alcoholic
and my oldest sweet though extremely selfish
and we'll together find
the edge of whatever town and
walk down a muddy path together,
ruining shoes and
mining memories
not even trying to
find the love that binds us
because it'll always
be everywhere,
easily accessible
on the tip of our
tongue and in
the core of our heart.

"dad. your 55. you
always told us that you'd
die when you're 56."

"you speak the truth, Annapurna."

"i know, dad. we want to take
you to Norway, and ride the
train for a month. because
you never did, you ol' son-of-a-bitch."

"that sounds lovely. can jessica come?"

"sure dad, if it makes you happy. mom'll
be there for 10 days. she and carson
plan to meet us."

"capital. that'll be just capital."

thanks.

Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Sep 21, 2015 - 01:46pm PT
Charles Bukowski Is Dead at 73; Poet Whose Subject Was Excess
By WILLIAM GRIMES
Published: March 11, 1994

Charles Bukowski, a poet, novelist and screenwriter whose heavy drinking and hard living were brought to the screen in the 1987 film "Barfly," died on Wednesday in San Pedro Peninsula Hospital in Los Angeles. He was 73 and lived in San Pedro, the Los Angeles port neighborhood.

The cause was leukemia, said Harvey Klinger, the agent for Black Sparrow Press, Mr. Bukowski's publisher.

Mr. Bukowski was a bard of the barroom and the brothel, a direct descendant of the Romantic visionaries who worshiped at the altar of personal excess, violence and madness. In works like "Flower, Fist and Bestial Wail," "Poems Written Before Jumping Out of an Eight-Story Window," "Legs, Hips and Behind" and "Ham on Rye," he acted as a tour guide to the nightmare of his own personality, writing in tough, direct language. Indeed, the title of one of his best-known works, "Erections, Ejaculations, Exhibitions and General Tales of Ordinary Madness," can be taken as the author's guide to living. Born in Germany

Mr. Bukowski was born in Andernach, Germany, and was brought to the United States at the age of 2. He once said in a magazine interview that he began drinking at 13 to dull the pain of being beaten continually by his father. After attending Los Angeles City College from 1939 to 1941, he moved to New York City to become a writer. Over the years, he supported himself by working as a dishwasher, truck driver, mailman, parking-lot attendant, elevator operator and Red Cross orderly. He once hung posters in the New York City subways.

In 1946, as the rejection slips piled up, Mr. Bukowski set out on a decadelong period devoted to drink and travel. In 1956, near death, he returned to writing. His poems were first published in Los Angeles newspapers like Open City and The Los Angeles Free Press and in little magazines. "Flower, Fist and Bestial Wail," his first poetry collection, was published in 1959, and over the years at least 40 more books followed, all of them rooted in the experiences of a loner and outcast with a keen eye for the absurd.

In novels and short-story collections like "Notes of a Dirty Old Man" (1969), "Post Office" (1971), "Factotum" (1975) and "Ham on Rye" (1982), Mr. Bukowski relied on an alter ego named Henry Chinaski, a down-and-out writer with a fierce dedication to women, drink, gambling and failure.

Mr. Bukowski wrote the screenplay for Barbet Schroeder's "Barfly," in which Mickey Rourke portrayed the poet in his younger days. His experiences as a screenwriter led to the novel "Hollywood" (1989).

Just before his death, Mr. Bukowski completed "Pulp," a mystery novel that will be published in the summer. An anthology of his work, "Run With the Hunted," was published in 1993.

He is survived by his second wife, Linda Lee, and a daughter, Marina, of Bellevue, Wash.

Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Sep 21, 2015 - 01:55pm PT
Are You Drinking?

washed-up, on shore, the old yellow notebook
out again
I write from the bed
as I did last
year.
will see the doctor,
Monday.
"yes, doctor, weak legs, vertigo, head-
aches and my back
hurts."
"are you drinking?" he will ask.
"are you getting your
exercise, your
vitamins?"
I think that I am just ill
with life, the same stale yet
fluctuating
factors.
even at the track
I watch the horses run by
and it seems
meaningless.
I leave early after buying tickets on the
remaining races.
"taking off?" asks the motel
clerk.
"yes, it's boring,"
I tell him.
"If you think it's boring
out there," he tells me, "you oughta be
back here."
so here I am
propped up against my pillows
again
just an old guy
just an old writer
with a yellow
notebook.
something is
walking across the
floor
toward
me.
oh, it's just
my cat
this
time

-by Charles Bukowski
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Sep 21, 2015 - 10:02pm PT
Thanks Sprock.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 21, 2015 - 10:38pm PT

spoke at a speaker meeting last friday, first time, 60 people,

Hope it went as good for you as it did for Bubbles in "The Wire"!

Maybe you haven't seen it? Best show on TV ever. ImO. It helps me to watch other addicts to know whence I came. Having now the ability to decide where I'm going is the glory :)
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Sep 23, 2015 - 02:05am PT
ever feel like this

"Any drinker knows how the process works: the first day you get drunk is okay, the morning after means a big head but so you can kill that easy with a few more drinks and a meal, but if you pass up the meal and go on to another night's drunk, and wake up to keep the toot going, and continue on to the fourth day, there'll come one day when the drinks wont take effect because you're chemically overloaded and you'll have to sleep it off but cant sleep any more because it was alcohol itself that made you sleep those last five nights, so delirium sets in -- Sleeplessness, sweat, trembling, a groaning feeling of weakness where your arms are numb and useless, nightmares, (nightmares of death)... well, there's more of that up later.

But anybody who's never had delirium tremens even in their early stages may not understand that it's not so much a physical pain but a mental anguish indescribable to those ignorant people who don't drink and accuse drinkers of irresponsibility -- The mental anguish is so intense that you feel you have betrayed your very birth, […] , you feel a guilt so deep you identify yourself with the devil and God seems far away abandoning you to your sick silliness -- You feel sick in the greatest sense of the word, breathing without believing in it, sicksicksick, your soul groans, you look at your helpless hands as tho they were on fire and you cant move to help, you look at the world with dead eyes, there's on your face an expression of incalculable repining like a constipated angel on a cloud,

In fact it's actually a cancerous look you throw on the world, through browngray wool fuds over your eyes Your tongue is white and
disgusting, your teeth are stained, your hair seems to have dried out overnight, there are huge mucks in the corners of your eyes, greases on your nose, froth at the sides of your mouth: in short that very disgusting and well known hideousness everybody knows who's walked past a city street drunk in the Boweries of the world... But there's no joy at all,
people say "Oh well he's drunk and happy let him sleep it off The poor drunkard is crying... He's crying for his mother and father and great brother and great friend, he's crying for help

He tries to pull himself together by moving one shoe nearer to his foot
and he cant even do that properly, he'll drop the shoe, or knock something over, he'll do something invariably that'll start him crying again
He'll want to bury his face in his hands and moan for mercy and he knows there is none Not only because he doesn't
deserve it but there's no such thing anyway
Because he looks up at the blue sky and there's nothing there but empty space making a big face at him He looks at the world, it's
sticking its tongue out at him and once that mask is removed it's looking at him with hollow big red eyes like his own eyes

He may see the earth move but there's no significance of any particular kind to attach to that

One little unexpected noise behind him will make him snarl in rage

He'll pull and tug at his poor stained shirt
He feels like rubbing his face into something that isn't. His socks are thick tired moisty slimes The beard on his cheeks itches the running sweats and annoys the tortured mouth There's a twisted feeling of no
more, never again, agh... What was beautiful and clean
yesterday has irrationally and unaccountably changed into a big dreary crock of sh#t The hairs on his fingers stare
at him like tomb hairs The shirt and trousers have become
glued to his person as tho he was to be drunk forever. The ache of remorse sinks in as tho somebody was pushing it in from above
The pretty white clouds in the sky hurt his eyes only
The only thing to do is turn over and lie face down and weep
The mouth is so blasted there's not even a chance to gnash the teeth
There's not even strength to tear the hair.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Sep 23, 2015 - 02:23am PT
god not that bad, for me sprock.
i do have a crush on
tragedy, though.

i take joy in dragging myself
back from near-demise, time and again,
but this habit gets in
the way of my fathering obligations.

so i've put the brakes on
my soul-slide and i'm just
keen for a bit idling here
in golden la-la land thowing
stars at heaven and
laughing when heaven ducks.

yea i got business for the 10 next years,
raising my daughters properly;
and then after that i shall continue
with a renewed vigor and vengeance
the attack on my not-so-innocent
soul.

thanks for the graphic
mind shot, though.

somedays us drunks are
a nice red bow atop chaos,
other days, though
we're god's turgid vomit
pooling in the sump pit
of eternity's dungeon.

Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Sep 23, 2015 - 03:58am PT
A Whistling in the Dark

Happy wife
Happy life
So many lists a gathering dust

Honey dos
Honey don'ts
Holidays that get put on hold
Work until you're growing old
As I now go under the knife
Happy life
Happy I

Once
I visited my old man
When gramps he worked for Uncle Sam
Disdain he had once for Japan
Now turned to love
So pure
So right
And my heart goes out to him
Tonight

She married me when we were young
Young her and I
So wild and free
But slave to our humanity
We touched tongues and other things
My wife sees all the best in me
What I can't say
She says
For me
With that you can only guess
But I confess her vanity
Really confuses me
And I speak her tongue
Occasionally

So kinders and their kinders
Try to please
As I once tried
They do so much more than me
But I supply
A wealth of stern hypocrisy
Transparent to I
Best not for all the world
To see
So see

Happy pain
There's no rain
There's no rain that we can see
No sudden revelations
Only misdirected incantations
Blathering on so endlessly
From the political box of my tv
It strikes me odd
They cannot see their futile words
So many follow easily
So few think independently
That some of us
Can see
I see

Happy challenge
I once ran up the mountain trail
Or toiled with loads
That made me smell
And followed giants without fail
Up granite spires
O'er precipices shear and bold
It made me strong as I grew old
My hands were gnarled just like the elm
Of trees I wielded at my helm
Like mountain men of days of old
I swam up steam and broke the mold
And stood up to transgressors who
Would tear me down
As some would do
They might have thought I would lie down
They walked away
I stood my ground
But not without giving up
That pound
Of flesh

Up hill I roll
With dogs as I grow old
Each and every one
A friend to me
They've taught me every day what they
Could give of themselves so endlessly
I walk with them as they point out to me
Look at all there is to see
But they like I are mortal
Life is rare even here
As if the illusion of abundance
Outweighs
Our vision

Yellow grass
White hair
Wrinkles here and wrinkles there
Stop and stare the mirrors they are everywhere
And I can't say for certain when
Things got so bad or good back then
I'm only as old as I'll ever be
And only as young as I am
So I relish
It

As I go under the knife
Happy pain
Happy strife
As clear as clear as things can be
At two am so sleeplessly
I write down what it means to me
To breathe the air
And wonderingly what comes to me
As time is near for me to sleep
Wanting not that my words should slip
Beneath the waves so soon
Reflecting in this
Happiness
A whistling goes our breathe
Happy
This

As soon do I
Go under the knife
I mustn't forget to buy
A birthday gift and card
Happy wife
Happy life

-bushman
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 23, 2015 - 04:37am PT
Past due
Over the long haul drinking will kill every thing you love to do.
If the sweetest revenge is living well,
The saddest existence is one that rotates around a bottle
In a moment of . . .
So many ways to frame it but
It was just plain arrogant stupidity that led me on a very hot day to say
Yes
Yes to a Root beer float.
What could it hurt a shot over the top of the vanilla bean of Jim Beam?
Or the the Wild Turkey 101? Is that dusty one Dant? That always left a dent
No it's the Dickell Reserve !
That will do nicely!
Sure
No don't stop. . .
Yes I'll have another. . .
Hey can I have a side car of the Dant . . ?
er...I mean Dickell with that?

I would venture to guess it has been twenty years since I've been such a mess.
Of course this is a public thing where kids and juvenile adults are getting hammered.

The high sugar content and booze worked to sit me down.
But nothing that I did stopped the spins and sweats from coming on.
I knew where this was heading !
I headed for the head
then thinking of the stench to follow
I headed out of doors
Drunk
About to puke
but not yet

first I needed to find the most humiliating place and pose.
. A black Cadillac
in the middle of the parking lot of a catering hall
seemed like
the perfect public leaning post
so I struck the pose by its front bumper.
Waves of wedding cake, shrimp scampi and the rest of the surf a turf gushed out,
Projectile vomit,
Finished? I stood up a little straighter and the waves came forth again and did not stop till froth and a bit of pInk started to show.

Fully nackered
Feeling weak kneed and falling over
I walked away from the shin-dig,
My drinking days are over.
I am an alcoholic. . .
And do not drink anymore.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Sep 23, 2015 - 04:59am PT
The drunk team pressed on
Seas of booze they swam and staggering to shore
Heaved and emptied guts to sand
Until they heaved no more
Of those that rose and stumbled forth
They raised a trembling hand
With fingers pointed towards the north
And uttered rank with rancid breath
Go drunk team
Yeah nausea


survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Sep 23, 2015 - 08:24am PT
Dr. Sprock, one of the most powerful posts I've ever read.

Where the HELL did you get that? Did you just spontaneously write it?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 23, 2015 - 08:35am PT
sprock i'm cryin now
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 23, 2015 - 09:36am PT

Where the HELL did you get that? Did you just spontaneously write it?

That's Kerouak, from Big Sur.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Sep 23, 2015 - 10:09am PT
yeah Big Sur, they made a fair movie, audio book is the best, when sleep is your only peace, you can listen to that book and identify yourself out of a funk,

what's behind Door #1, alcoholic death
what's behind door #2, live life according to the big kahuna,

which one? call your doctor, ask him about alcoholic death,

still, i have to think about it, hmmmm...

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Sep 23, 2015 - 10:12am PT
One should credit sources.


Waking from nightmare
Relief of mind comes quickly
It was just a dream

 me
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Sep 23, 2015 - 10:14am PT
Thanks guys.

That's a Kerouac I haven't read. Better dial it up!
Casey Bald

climber
lower refuse, NH
Sep 27, 2015 - 10:22am PT
Hey folks......

long time coming with this post. I have been a climber for over 15 years for a quarter of that I have been battling drug addiciton specifically Heroin. I have been clean for a week now and this past weekend the state of New Hampshire finally decided it was time for me to have my driving privilidges back so I headed north to get some climbing and some fishing in. Walking up to the base of Cathedral ledge sent me spiraling back with memories. First Leads and big whips brought my memory back to a simpler time with less worries and better choices. I ended up not really warming up and getting on a tricky, techy 10+ and got up the thing but was thoroughally worked. When I clipped the chains with forearms bulging and snot dripping down my face I remembered why I spent so much of my life dedicated to the practice of climbing. I hope this feeling can stick with me in the future and that I can stay clean long enough to continue to enjoy our wonderful way of life.....

thanks for listening

caser.
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
Sep 27, 2015 - 10:31am PT
right on!
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Oct 13, 2015 - 12:05pm PT
i'm going thru the paces, nicely.
i got a good gait,
one with ample momentum
to carry me through
those scenes
where beer beckons.

i hate sobriety,
i feel like i got
this useless giant
muscle rattling around
inside my skull-cage
and i've no use
for it now that
i can't f*#k with it.

but for me, now,
it's the way.

i gotta raise kids
with patience and poise,
and those traits
flee when i'm in
my cup.

plus i love my wife
and she won't stand
beside a drunk.

not now.

in ten years though
i foresee me
living out a year in
a smokey cabin in
alaska bursting
forth from a decade
of sobriety;

i'll have my health;
i'll own my small
hut here in the sierras;

i'll head two established
companies;

simple financial wealth, i'll enjoy;

independence from addiction? yes.

and i'll throw it all away, that year.
mark my poem.

and i'll probably do as keroac did
in big sur, document my
graceful undoing,
in prose.

but i need material,
for my story.
more material.
sober material.

fatherhood material.
stable material.
forced material.

torn material.

all of it, builds
a life.
worth recording.
Stevee B

Trad climber
Oakland, CA
Oct 13, 2015 - 04:39pm PT
The best is yet to be Casey. I need only remember a) where I came from and b) that I can't do it alone. All else follows.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Dec 4, 2015 - 11:22pm PT
I deleted that other thread I started...
'Post Drunk While Posting Night Friday Duh'
I was being sarcastic and on second thought,
just because I no longer imbibe doesn't mean I shouldn't try,
and let others have their fun.

Here was the poem though...

jus sayin'

I used to post drunk
Until one day I thunk
In the back of my mind
Something finally went clunk
And I cannot debunk
All those classes I'd flunk
The epiphany sunk
No more booze for this punk

-bushman
12/04/2014
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Dec 5, 2015 - 01:50am PT
good take on Bill's Story,

[url="http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW6OO-hR6qg"]http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW6OO-hR6qg[/url]
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Dec 5, 2015 - 04:41am PT
Lots of good posts on this page!

It's been awhile for me being clean
For awhile there I was staunch and mean
Atleast it kept me from vibe n at the local seen
Although it was great energy at the workin scheme
Now I've been licking the fat off the butter and cream
Do ya know what I mean

Love ya Weeg
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 5, 2015 - 06:19am PT
Holidays are here and can be stressful. Let's keep this thread warm for those who might need to find a port in the storm.

I've been in Asheville, NC, the last week, pretty much working on new jewelry pieces and hanging out with Lucas. In town...when all surrounding the place are mountains. On the one hand, I love seeing the Art Deco downtown buildings and wandering around the neighborhoods filled with quaint Arts & Crafts bungalows(though most of the owners have not stayed true to style with some of their *improvements*). This place is so full of artisan and craft I can't understand how there are enough buyers to go round.

There is a really thriving downtown scene, and especially at dusk, if I drive through, it makes me nostalgic for a time back when.....

The problem is - back when never existed. When I was drinking I was definitely on the prowl for that imagined poetic life of beautiful decay. When I gave up the drink, I found myself immersed in it, except for the social cammeraderie. I've never been good at that. Heard the drink whisper to me, as I drove through downtown last night. It told me some line about how happy and cool all hose people were, while I was alone, driving in a beater van, heading to bed down at Walmart's lot.

Luckily, it passed like the small fart of a passing pedestrian, and by the time I was going through the next traffic intersection, I had forgotten all about those people who probably don't even exist.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 5, 2015 - 06:35am PT
You can see what I have been making at http://www.TalismanToo.Etsy.com

Sometimes I feel "less than"(other people who do it) because I am not designing and casting molds, wire-wrapping like a whirling dervish or working with fine metals and precious gemstones. But.... with a studio space that consists of the front seats in a van and the space behind the console, I don't feel so bad.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Dec 5, 2015 - 08:06am PT
My sober life.

I totally get that, Edge. Rarely do I see an old A.A. friend but a few of them are also long time customers and an ex employee. We catch up but I don't hang with that crowd. My airplane club friends mostly drink socially and are respectful of my 26 years of sobriety. The few that drink too much I usually ignore and have no tolerance for in their drunken state. My family also allows me some dignity although a few can be drunkenly overbearing at times.

My old boring standby jokes suit me fine, "I thought I smoked and drank up the whole world's supply back in the Seventies," or, "You don't want to see me drunk, I would probably wreck the place and more than one of us would wind up in jail or the hospital before the night was through."

All in all I only attend parties on occasion and I leave pretty early before most people start to get too tossed. If it's no longer fun or people get obnoxious, it's time to turn in. Works for me. I get way more satisfaction out of being home reading, writing, or watching a good movie than I do with all that socializing anyway. I'm always good with alone time and the quiet hours around my place in the country with my wife and pets in evenings and weekends after the stress of running the business five days a week.

When traveling my major joys are in seeing the sights, watching the wildlife and the landscape, museums, art, architecture, music, shows, fine foods, and sharing all this with family and old friends. Most of the time my old drinking days are but a fleeting memory.

But I remember. It's not an option to return to that lifestyle for me. I burned too brightly, sadly, quickly, and recklessly for me or any good relationships I ever had to last one more day of it. I do remember. Sobriety is my fresh air breath and last chance at a good life. I'll never forget I'm an alcoholic who does not drink or use, and that is only a part of who I am and who I've become. It's ok to just be me again. The child I am, the thinker and the wonderer, the explorer, the tinkerer, a dog's best friend, and the parent/grandparent I've become.

-bushman
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Dec 5, 2015 - 08:12am PT
Dude.

But I remember. It's not an option to return to that lifestyle for me. I burned too brightly, sadly, quickly, and recklessly for me or any good relationships I ever had to last one more day of it. I do remember. Sobriety is my fresh air breath and and last chance at a good life. I'll never forget I'm an alcoholic who does not drink or use, and that is only a part of who I am and who I've become. It's ok to just be me again. The child I am, the thinker and the wonderer, the explorer, the tinkerer, a dog's best friend, and the parent/grandparent and I've become

-bushman

Right on.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 5, 2015 - 07:09pm PT
I play music in Bars and that does not bother me. I did stay away from that scean when i first quit. 9+ years into it i feel pretty strong.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 5, 2015 - 08:08pm PT
I have not been to a meeting in months -- it feels good to be so, so done with dying from alcohol that no longer must meetings dictate the tempo of my days. I do look forward to hitting an occasional meeting when I get back to flag -- I just don't have the energy right now to go alone to meetings full of strangers here in San Diego. Because the truth is, that can be a lonely thing and it takes energy, but going to meetings to hang with folks you've know through ten bad years is just plain fun. Bottom line is drinking never crosses my mind, ever. On the other hand, I do think I owe it to the sobriety community -- whatever the f*#k that is -- to give something back. Because there are a few folks who hung in there with me during some really bad years -- after almost two years sober, I'm still trying to reestablish some kind of balance in my life.

Of course, I AM recovering from a profoundly busted hip, so that sort of takes up all my attention right now..! Gotta remember this was me a mere 5 weeks ago...


ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Dec 5, 2015 - 09:10pm PT
- looking forward to you getting back out there and crushing again.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 6, 2015 - 04:56am PT
I don't drink alcohol,smoke weed or anything else. Don't do any medicins stronger than Ibuprophrin and prilosec. When i get sick though I get really sick. Sometimes when you simply can not breath or sleep i do need some real medicine.

The way I handel this is I buy the small bottle of Nyquil and I follow the directions and take exactly the recomended dose once before bed. I do Not buy a 2nd bottle. Obviously not everyone can do this but so far it has not been a problem for me.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 6, 2015 - 06:12am PT
Not. you kidding I can't even make 2 days worth of food and save any of it for tomorrow. I do have decent willpower when i set a goal though. If I am sick as a dog and need the medicine I tell myself that if I follow the directions exactly and use the little plastic cup thingy that it's going to be ok and for me it is. Is there a temptation to buy annother bottle and keep it going for just a few more nights? hell yes. So far i have been OK knowing that one bottle of Nyquil a year is not going to send me off the wagon.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 6, 2015 - 06:35am PT
It's fck'd up to fck with people in this thread.

Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Dec 6, 2015 - 07:23am PT
^^ +100. Absolutely unbelievable.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Dec 6, 2015 - 11:38am PT
Another simple rhyme here and I'm not trying to make light humor or to be insulting, but I believe the life and death situation of so many millions trying to remain sober and survive alcoholism requires some levity to temper all the seriousness. At least the seriousness of my recovery has required large doses of it, but then, that's just me.

The Sound of One Ass Flappin'

There's that time of my life
Thought I had it all down
I kept foolin' myself
While wearin' a frown
I was way down inside
Where I once kept my crown
But this day was done
When the chips were all down

There once was 'this' lad
Who with intricate plan
Would control his whole life
Were it not for the 'man'
Least that's what I thought
Trading chance for some sand
Feeling empty and undone
With delusions so grand

Then the wife and kids left
As my sanity darted
And some the clarity set
Like the Red Seas that parted
I had finally lost hope
To find reason within
And a life without drink
Or a place to begin

And a voice from within
And some well equipped friends
Pointed me to a path
Where a world without ends
So less dire and grim
Than the place I was in
Yet the alter of self
Was to sacrifice from within

That fun luvin guy
Who I thought was my bro
Who would lead by the nose
This child who would go
Was my selfish-est self
That I ever did know
He the life of the party
Cared not for me no

And this intricate self
Compartmentalized
Was never that crazy just
Substance compromised
All my defects and shortcomings
Denied to my sight
Would nerr hold me hostage
When held up to the light

Confused yet by self
And deluded by fun
To cop to my selfishness
Has had me on the run
Though denied by the truth
And the light of the sun
It remains a most ardent
Insidious gun

It would sabotage all
Given half of a chance
But is countered by selflessness
Well in advance
I'd trade alcoholic sickness
For the duel of the self
In leu of sure death
On a liquor store shelf

It's a delicate dance
But a bet that I'll take
With returns high and low
There's so much more at stake
There's the family I love
There's my want and my need
Being true to myself
Remains paramount indeed

So demanding control
And directing the show
In all aspects of life
As if I should know
Beyond all expectation
In reality won't happen
And rings hollow as the sound
Of one ass that's flappin

-bushman
12/06/2015
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Dec 6, 2015 - 11:06pm PT
*


This thread is such an inspiration to read & see peoples stories, struggles, thoughts and successes..

Miss C . Schwarma ... it is sad and unfortunate to see your comments...Everybody is very thoughtful and respectful on this thread.... can you please delete your above posts.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Dec 6, 2015 - 11:12pm PT
Jebus, yeah thats great! But to who knows what depths you've seen?
Your a masater of your domain, and ln today's world that means green.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Dec 6, 2015 - 11:18pm PT
^^ Paging CMac.

Get that a-hole swarma out of here.
She/he/it is nothing but a POS and I don't throw those letters around very often.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 9, 2015 - 01:31pm PT
A little more than 3 years in and things are very good. I can't say sobriety is the easiest thing I've done, and I've been a hair away from complete disaster a time or two. Maybe whatever is closest to my best side, or a higher power, or whatever you would call it saved me those times. I am thankful for the clarity those moments gave me, whatever the source.

More often than not, I am as happy as I have ever been. I smile for no good reason, and welcome the challenges of life. And that's all you can really ask for. I wish you all the best on your own paths.


I wanna be like you. I'm going to give it a shot. Cheers, Jebus!!!
Stevee B

Trad climber
Oakland, CA
Dec 21, 2015 - 05:45pm PT
Much love to my sober fellows as we head into the holidays. A most challenging of times for sure. Thought I'd share some of my tools I use around the holidays -
1 - when dinners / evenings get socially awkward and uncomfortable, I do the dishes. This seems simple or silly but this is my single most effective tool.
2 - have lots of favorite non-alky bevvys on hand - La Croix, ginger ale, and my favorite coffees.
3 - When staying with family, have my own wheels and when possible / necessary, my own lodging.
4 - Get out for a meeting on Christmas Day (afternoon) or early on Christmas Eve. Smile and let people know I'm visiting from out of town and how much I appreciate being in a meeting.
5 - Get some exercise Christmas morning, usually going for a run.

Being around family can be among the toughest. Best of luck to everyone and Happy Holidays.


tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 21, 2015 - 06:23pm PT
Egg nog is actually just as good without the booze. gives you a nice sugar buzz.... Love the cans of seltzer.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 21, 2015 - 08:46pm PT
Love the cans of seltzer.


They have some good flavored ones too. Carbonated water and a hint of natural fruit flavoring of some kind (dragon fruit, peach, mango, strawberry, etc...), and no sugar.

Today is day#11 for me. Doing pretty well, just got back from my second AA meeting. Good bunch of people, I like the group.

I'm going to try another group too, just to see what's around. The other group was suggested by Dr. Sprock.

I feel kind of guilty in some ways because I feel so good and things are going remarkably well. I don't know if it's because I'm so fed up with booze it was 'easier' to leave it behind, or if it just easier in the beginning before you lose sight of what alcohol did to your life and you now think you're 'above it', and have the power to control it.

Probably both, but being aware of them is helpful, being wary of them.

EDIT:
I remembered why I spent so much of my life dedicated to the practice of climbing. I hope this feeling can stick with me in the future and that I can stay clean long enough to continue to enjoy our wonderful way of life.....

Whether you're climbing or not, just don't let the substance ruin you. That's usually what it does. It devours the real you, enslaves you.
Gilroy

Social climber
Bolderado
Dec 21, 2015 - 09:36pm PT
Bluey, sometimes when you are ready, it is easy. Take what you get and safeguard against the trials. The counsel of like-minded good friends and real-life counselors of the professional sort are so helpful that it's hard to exaggerate.

And blessings on the dude that started this thread and place of strength and solace. I come here often to draw sustenance of the most human kind.

Peacelovedove.
Stevee B

Trad climber
Oakland, CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 10:48am PT
Today is day#11 for me. Doing pretty well, just got back from my second AA meeting. Good bunch of people, I like the group.

I'm going to try another group too, just to see what's around. The other group was suggested by Dr. Sprock.

For me the first couple of weeks usually felt good, healthy, hopeful. It was around week 3-4 that I would start to feel restless, irritable, edgy, looking for something to smooth the rough edges off. Just something to keep an eye out for. My last alcohol relapse was after 30 days or so of sobriety, traveling to Ohio to celebrate with cousins and aunts and uncles I didn't know super well.

Kudos to trying other groups. Finding "my people" was critical, makes it all so much easier.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Dec 22, 2015 - 11:09am PT
Holidays still are difficult for me. My self centeredness rears it's ugly head around the first of December each year and I struggle to stifle negative self dialogue. My wife and family love the holidays but I feel curmudgeonly at the thought of them, only I always end up enjoying the parties and get togethers with family and friends once they are started.

When Mr recluse bushman is called upon to think of others and is expected to not act like an a-hole about it, it is way harder for me than not thinking about a drink. Still, it gets a little easier each year. Normal people probably don't feel this way. If I focus on the fact that I have a family that wants to celebrate and actually wants me there that always makes it way easier. Sometimes I can be so ungrateful. That being said,

I wish a safe and happy holiday to everyone here,
Merry Christmas everybody!

Karen

Trad climber
Casper, Wyoming
Dec 22, 2015 - 11:52am PT
What's up with some people who just insist you drink with them? They also feel every meal must have wine.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Dec 22, 2015 - 11:57am PT
As long as they supply the mineral water, club soda, or sparkling cider (alcohol free of course) I'm OK with it.

Still, it requires some tolerance on our part.
Stevee B

Trad climber
Oakland, CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:19pm PT
What's up with some people who just insist you drink with them? They also feel every meal must have wine.
My hat is off to them. Wish I could.

If I could drink normally, I'd do it a lot - like everyday, some days probably twice ;-)
661climber

climber
Central valley
Dec 22, 2015 - 02:32pm PT
6 1/4 years clean. A hell of a battle at first.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 24, 2015 - 08:46am PT
What's up with some people who just insist you drink with them? They also feel every meal must have wine.

Could be anything. Obviously, they aren't considering not drinking is about all I would need to know on my own.

It's up to me, to stay sober. My first sober Christmas, I was telling my then therapist that I was nervous to go home for the holidays. Up until then, I ALWAYS went home. When she said "You don't have to go, you know." it was like an insight I never would have gotten on my own. The solution seemed so simple!

Unfortunately, it hurt my family greatly when I didn't come. It did not occur to me to be anything other than honest and so when I called to make my announcement, I explained that "I am afraid I will drink. There is a lot of drinking going on whenever we get together, and I can't risk it."

That was interpreted as something like "I think you all are a bunch of lushes and I'm too good for you now."

Over the years I have thought about "repairing" the damage that was done over that one incident. It had a domino effect and my family now doesn't realize that I simply cannot afford to come back for these events. I try to take part in the family via the various FB stuff they post about, but it is always overshadowed by "Will you be able to come for..." and then silence when I explain why not. Now - I HAVE come back twice in the last few years, on my way out west or back, and it is almost as if I am not there anyway. Mostly the conversation is "I wish you would come back more," but they are all off to work, doing family stuff and in the end most of the time I have been there I was left to my own to sit at home or take walks. So it is difficult.


That was a tangent.... but here I am on 12/24 and well, I have looked up a few AA meetings for today and tomorrow and that is going to be part of my holiday. I had better - feeling pangs of aloneness, and that is something that usually does not affect me in the least.

What I was originally trying to convey before my sidetrack was that - I am better off not trying to figure out others, but to focus on how it affects ME. If I cannot be around drinkers, then I might need to say so, or find a soft lie to avoid if, if that makes things less difficult. I can't, really, ask others to not drink in my presence. (Hahah - I just had an imagined image of doing just that at a family event and seeing everyone sitting around in a living room doing those things like the rolling of the thumbs with hands clasped, looking around at the ceiling as if there is going to be cue cards for conversation up there...)




bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 24, 2015 - 09:07am PT
I got 2 weeks sobriety today, ready for Christmas.

I'm lucky though, my wife's family doesn't drink. They're coming to our house for Christmas.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 24, 2015 - 09:14am PT
Good for you, Bluering! I am sure they will be very supportive of your decision. But be sure to take care of yourself in any event. I have no idea of your extended family relationships, but if there might be stressfullness involved, could be a good idea to have a sober friend you can sneak off and call.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 24, 2015 - 09:23am PT
Happy, got to try and mend it with the family. Alcoholics can get super defensive when one of them quits. It seems like a betrayal to them. Try to tell them that you love them but you are an alcoholic and afraid of what will happen if you are arround that much booze.. Or better yet get strong enough to visit them. keep that seltzer in your hand at all times!
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Dec 24, 2015 - 10:24am PT
I wonder how Hankster is doing? Glad your still at it Bluey. I really like what everyone is saying here. Family gatherings, company parties, new years eve parties etc. can be hard. Stevee B has some good wisdom.

Around here there are Alcathons; meetings around the clock. So you don't have to wait for a specific time to go to a meeting. I get a lot out of being with a group of like minded folks. Drunks and normies don't really get it so its nice to be around people who do.

I wish everyone a safe and healthy holiday.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 25, 2015 - 12:34pm PT
I was feeling sad yesterday and so did the smart thing and went to an AA meeting. It had three people who had at one time lived in New York at it.

It was just a normal old meeting, but I was asked to chair, being the stranger off the street with enough sobriety to follow the instructions text.... Anyway, it lifted me right out of the morass.

Today my little luxury is hat I am going to the movies. It is raining like crazy here these last few days.

Merry Christmas to all who are reading this thread, and here's to adding a few new sober posters in 2016!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 25, 2015 - 06:57pm PT
Hope everyone had a great christmass and got through it ok.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Dec 25, 2015 - 07:28pm PT
Yeah, aside from sticking my nose where it don't belong, and eating too many tamales and too much chocolate, I survived. Now I'm down for the count, goodnight everybody and Merry Christmas to all!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 08:05am PT
Glad to hear Christmas was well for everybody. Happie, good for you at the meeting!

I had some issues with my in-laws who came over. Nothing bad really, just everything they all talked about seemed stupid and boring, cracking/laughing at each others stupid jokes.

I seemed to have grown very intolerant of other people in my sobriety. I'm too serious all the time, even with my wife. I find myself just nodding, yes, uh-huh. Hard to describe. I just wish people would only talk to me if it's something somewhat serious and relevant, and stop all the un-necessary side chatter.

Weird...
Gearhead

Trad climber
Novato Ca
Dec 26, 2015 - 08:11am PT
Alcohol seems to buffer the idiotic background noise at most family gatherings. I about went bat sh#t crazy my first sober Christmas. It gets better though
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:36am PT
Stuck on Family Holiday Party Street Again

Incessant blithering mindless drivel
Blathering on with a whining snivel
Pompously blowing the blowhards song
Broadcasting potty mouthed all night long

These are the things our relatives do
From the boring vacations to Juniors first poo
Nothing is sacred from gossiping aunts
The in-laws or sisters or your underpants

You might as well show up and wear your best face
Because if your not there it would be a disgrace
To miss how some loved ones could sink to such lows
Just be sure the car starts and there's no chance it snows

-bushman
12/26/2015
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:45am PT
Gearhead and Bushman, I hear ya. After drinking heavily for 20 of so years, it just took me by surprise. It's uncomfortable, yet tolerable I suppose. I can deal with it, it's just annoying.

I had the same thing happen last Wednesday when we had our Christmas party at a restaurant with 20 fellow co-workers on my crew. I work with everybody just fine, even joke around a bit, but in a setting where you are 'forced' to sit and socialize with them, it's just unpleasant.

I'll get over it, it's just new to me to not be able to drown out the mundane with alcohol.

It really is a whole new thing to me.
overwatch

climber
Dec 26, 2015 - 10:11am PT
Alcohol makes your brain blend with the mundane.

I am a white knuckler that quit for health reasons years ago. alcohol was THE gateway drug for me. There was nothing I wouldn't do and I still learn of things that I did back in the day that I obviously suppressed because I was never a blackout drunk.

I did however have what I called the 13th beer syndrome. (the number is an approximation) I was a happy drunk all up until a certain point when a switch was flipped in my brain and I violently hated everyone. alcoholism runs in our family

vvvvvvv same here. A touch of social anxiety disorder
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 26, 2015 - 10:26am PT
I needed the booze to feel comfortable in any social situation, to the point where things were "best" if I could have a few drinks before having to have people imposed upon me...(!) When I got sober it was really hard to bring myself to go to these things. Even my good friend, who invited me to their country house for the weekend. I made up an excuse and ditched out at the last minute and still regret it to this day. She never invited me again. And drinking was not even something we did at her place! I just couldn't take the discomfort of having to "play act" at having an enjoyable time in a situation I knew I wasn't going to enjoy(because it would mainly revolve around her toddler son, and really - what do I have in common with that? Now I could do it, but probably not for a long weekend - hahaha).
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jun 18, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
With respect to her privacy, I can only say a family member is going through an addiction related trauma at present. She has been in the hospital for a week with C diff and other illnesses. Yesterday she lapsed into a coma. We were at the hospital most of yesterday and she is being transferred to another hospital today for more tests.

I was home for awhile and wrote this down to quell the nagging anxiety of the unknown.


My Eyes open like a Child

When I was just a child
I was wild and free
In my spirit and my body
but the powers that would be
Tried to tame me and to form me
and to bend me to their will
Then there came a day
when I'd finally had my fill

And I lashed out at the world
and tried throwing off the yoke
Showing bitter disappointment
against authority I broke
And I was pummeled in turn
but some still showed me human kindness
And helped to save me from myself
for to find love I had blindness

Seeking only for myself
to satiate the flesh
With all manner of debauchery
for my soul to refresh
But my cup was always empty
so I sought solace through near death
In such risky behavior
I could hardly catch my breath

And the world of friends and family
were repulsed or pushed away
And in lonely desperation
I saw myself one day
Like a bright shining light
the deception was stripped away
I'd been punishing myself
along with everyone in my way

And for the first time in my life
I understood that I was home
With everything I needed
and I would never be alone
There was a child inside me
who was worthwhile and was fun
Who only needed the love
that he could give to anyone

That's why I still talk to strangers
I’m rarely stoic or too shy
I don't expect reciprocation
or need an answer why
Every human in their heart
at one time held the keys
Whether they wild or had forgotten
that to get down on one's knees

It can help for the moment
when we can't answer or produce
When there's no human vaccination
that we ever could induce
When the chips are truly down
and life slaps us in the face
When our grief or pain surrounds us
in the deepest darkest place

But there's a beacon of hope
that I've carried from that day
I have cradled it in my heart
rarely barring the way
Of accepting others as they are
with what my tolerance will take
Understanding they're in pain
which might be too hard to take

I can show some understanding
and assistance when it's right
When some others like me
have reached out into the night
To say that they are tired
of the addiction and self blame
Only serving to postpone
the denial and the shame

Of the what, the why, and how,
it doesn't matter in the end
But it takes massive humility
to turn around that bend
To ask of yourself
and to whoever you think can hear
What it means to go on living
and retain what you hold dear

Until the grace of acceptance
opens up our eyes
That nothing is for certain but
only of this have I surmised
I don't know if there’s a god
and I don’t believe in hell
Except the hell we can create
which is sadder even still

I have prayed to the rocks,
to the trees, and to the birds
To unburden my heart
of anger or sorrowful words
For we can manufacture pain
and suffering to kill
Expecting all the world
to bend to our will

Until there comes a day
when the best that we can do
Is to rise upon the morn
and see the morning anew
To stand beside our loved ones
and our friends when they're in need
Being glad of every new day
and to silently do good deeds

St Francis said it best
it's impossible to hate
When you give yourself
to others and are willing then to wait
Expect nothing in return
then no one can disappoint
Until breathing becomes enough
with no fingers left to point

Now whenever I accept
and I go about my day
As if whatever might go wrong
was my fault anyway
'Cause I happen to exist
and have troubles as we all do
Then I work at the solutions
until each day is through

And this way I'm preoccupied
without feeling singled out
Like bad things only happen
to a fool like me no doubt
And that thought makes me laugh
that such illogical thinking
Would enter in my mind so easily
like my penchant was for drinking

So times when I've tried honestly
and my best to put things right
Though trying days have come
I’ve often slept through the night
And am willing now to set
my spirit free to flight
And loose my imagination
beyond thinking and just to write

Because there's a new world everyday
when we open up our eyes
To put all our fears behind us
and that's when I realize
Though there's trouble and heartache
in the present and the past
In the end it will be over
and our human problems never last

And in the interim there's a chance
to find beauty, hope, and grace
In the sunlight of each day
where I always find that place
It's the place I like to go
where the world is fresh and new
With my eyes open like a child
It’s what I really love to do

-bushman
06/18/2016
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jul 30, 2016 - 12:33pm PT
A Very Fine Wine

There was a time,
In life I tried,
Every nectar sweet and crystal dipped wine,
And herbs afire did drift their scents,
I found them most delightful,
And thought they opened up my mind,

Then life and death came down to me,
To brush at me and nuzzle softly,
In shuddering throes so sweet and cold,
The knife edge rattled me as I grew old,
Strange death to me was worrisome,
Tried as I did not lose my grip,
I said farewell then just in case,

"Goodbye dear world you dear sweet gal,"
I knew I'd miss her most of all,
The surgeon's knife was beckoning,
Kissed all farewell,
To wake the punch-drunk sailing man,
But barroom days were over then,

Escaping now the moldering grave,
And swearing off was nothing then,
The air so sweet,
The night so cold,
I gazed at worlds afar and knew my place,
In Galileo's looking glass and just in case,

I wrapped my cloak and warmed myself,
This world my chalice and my vase,
The universe was still a place,
As comforting as love's embrace,
But coldly she's mysterious,
For angered hearts won't solace find,
In so immense and vast a place.

-bushman
07/02/2015
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 22, 2016 - 08:50am PT
Twenty Years sober coming soon! I'm embarrassed to admit that I could not remember if it was 8/23 or 8/26 at first. But, I looked up the date, in the year 1996, and the 26th was a Monday. That makes sense....

On Saturday night that year, I had my last drink, which was a sip off a disgusting warm can of Budweiser. Since it was about 3am, it was technically Sunday, and I remember well the wake-up hangover.

So, my first day without a drink of alcohol was Monday, and that make my anniversary the 26th. Twenty years, one day at a time.

This is also the first year that I didn't go into a funky state of mind for the three weeks beforehand. I always felt sort of a hopelessy sensation, which was how I was feeling during my bottom. I figured that somehow my body was having some sort of memory. This year I just kind of was excited about the idea of it being twenty years.

I feel good, and intend to enjoy this last week of countdown to my anniversary on Friday. WOOT!
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Aug 22, 2016 - 09:05am PT
Happie....that makes me happy!
Wonderful accomplishment. You have to wonder if you'd even be alive now.
Thinking of you and Lucas and hoping our paths cross sometime soon.

Susan
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 22, 2016 - 09:20am PT
Thanks Susan.

When I was in early sobriety, I told my sponsor that one morning,in the final weeks of my drinking, I woke up to a feeling that I described as if my soul was like water swirling around and down a sink drain.

I had also told her about a friend I was hanging with at the time, who was into some weird stuff and trying to convince me to come along to a party which would include some of this behavior. Because I was not into having anonymous people pawing at my body, I wouldn't go. But - there was a part of me that knew if she kept at me, I would eventually go with her.

When I told the feeling of the drain, my sponsor's face turned white and she blurted out "Oh my god, you were going to die." It was a very weird moment, but when she said that, I had a flash in my mind that "showed" me myself in the moments of death, in relation to that kind of party. And, it was horribly not pretty.

Who knows, of course. Our minds tell us things all the time. But, I chose the path less traveled - sobriety - and that has made all the difference.
canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
Aug 22, 2016 - 11:38am PT
That's a pretty significant thing Happie. I'm sure it wasn't always easy, but here you are. Thumbs up and high fivin'.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Aug 22, 2016 - 05:29pm PT
Thanks Happie and everyone here for helping me to remember where I was when alcohol completely quit working and the bell began tolling for me.

It's still out there (the drink and the addiction), but I see the disease for what it is now, and I know I won't ever have to walk this path alone again. Friends in Sobriety are everywhere we look for them if we really are serious about long term recovery.

Jus sayin, knowmean?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 26, 2016 - 03:39pm PT
Woot! Looks like I should make it to midnight without taking a drink. Here's to all those sober today with me, and a big welcome into the sober circle for anyone still in the throes of addiction. This thread has been a great part of ST for me.

Congratulations with the 2 years, treez!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 28, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
congrats happy! just hit 10yrs on aug 25th and did not even realize it untill i got pulled over last night for crossing the center line comming back from climbing. told the oscifer I had not had a drink in 10 years.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 28, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
What's ol' Hankster up to these days?
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Dec 3, 2016 - 05:37pm PT
Supertopoians, I am reaching out for advice. I have a dear friend that has been in a downward cycle with alcohol for the past five years. He is an incredible talented climber and sensitive soul. It has turned from bad to very bad, he can no longer climb and is going from functioning and drinking a lot to incomprehensible drunk by noon. I have been passively encouraging him to lay off the booze. Recently, my concern and efforts have increased, he broke down to me and said that he is drowning and has no control over it. He wants to stop but is way past having the ability to do so. I bought him a SMART recovery workbook, but know that he is not near the level to stop without professional help. So, I am initiating the next step but don't know what my next steps are and what I am up against. My first step is try to get his wife on board with me(unfortunately she is a heavy drinker as well). Their income is limited, so I know that I am going to be invested financially and already am emotionally. Any advice is very appreciated. Thank you
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Dec 3, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
I am not a professional counselor, just a recovering alcoholic/addict who's been clean and sober for 27 years, so I can only recommend what worked for me. Before I got sober I did not understand what alcoholism and addiction were. I also had never heard of, nor had I any clue as to what codependency was.

Fortunately for me the catalyst was 'hitting bottom' with my drinking. That was precipitated by my wife, having had enough of me and my illness, and taking the kids and walking out the door (luckily for me she returned to my side, after I got sober, and is with me to this day with the caveat of course that I never take another drink).

This might be very hard for your friend to experience, with him being around so many people who either drink and/or are propping him up in some way, either morally or financially.

This roadblock to fully facing the problem is what codependency means, and so long as the person is surrounded by this support system, there is little chance of them 'hitting a bottom,' which might finally give them the opportunity to become humbled enough to find some kind of lasting sobriety.

A lot of this you might already know, so I hope it does not seem like I am lecturing you. But this has been the experience of my own sobriety and that of many friends who have finally found a way to live sober.

I was able to get sober through the program Alcoholics Anonymous, after my wife left me. It was difficult because I don't believe in God, so I had learn to trust in some kind of a higher power in order to find a way to let go of my own willfulness and to do the things that were asked of me (mostly volunteering to give of my time speaking with other alcoholics and opening and closing meetings).

I also learned to trust the groups of long term sober drunks with whom I developed a new kind of camaraderie. These were people of all walks of life, workers, businessmen, educators, doctors, and other professionals.

Well anyway, the books 'Alcoholics Anonymous' and 'Codependent No More' are a good starting point for understanding more about the illness and problems with treatment.

Good luck, it is not my place to tell you to walk away from your friend and let them fall flat on their face if the time comes when they no longer have somewhere to turn to or someone to help them with the disease.

If they are drinking as much as you say they are they may not be able to stop drinking without medical treatment, and to do so without being under the care of a medical professional or a treatment facility.

Without alcohol they might go through some pretty severe withdrawals (such as delirium tremens) and run the risk of having a seizure.

It's a harsh reality that many never find permanent sobriety unless they first reach a condition of incomprehensible demoralization before they're open to the idea of stopping for good, which is a lifetime one day at a time process.

I wish you all the best with your friend.

-Tim (bushman)
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Dec 3, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
Thank you, that was very thoughtful and helpful
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 4, 2016 - 07:04am PT
Good luck!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 4, 2016 - 09:13am PT
Good post bushman.

Trailridge, thanks for your concern and love for your friend. Best of luck to you both.

Remember, sometimes the hardest thing is to walk away from something that has become too toxic for your own existence.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 4, 2016 - 01:40pm PT
He may need professional detox, to avoid the risks associated with withdrawal.

AA is free. There is a suggestion that one pays a buck or two when they pass the hat at meetings, and this pays for rent, literature and coffee/snacks if the meeting has them. But chipping in is not required.

My suggestion: Take him to an open AA meeting(you can look up the phone number for your area by searching "Alcoholics Anonymous" and the name of the town you live in(or nearest one that has a reasonably large population, as that will be where the local "office" is). They can give you meeting times/locations and answer any questions you may have.

Get him to the meeting and into the hands of the sober men there, and then step away a bit.Sure, sit with him at his first meeting, or two, but then - consider going to Al-Anon for yourself, to learn how to manage your own part in the alcoholic relationship. You might be surprised at how helpful it can be!

Good luck to your friend.

Oh....and if they do take that first step, consider mentioning this cool thread on Supertopo about sobriety that you heard of.....
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Dec 4, 2016 - 03:44pm PT
Well said Bushman, same here, hit rock bottom. The Wife walked out and then returned by some miracle and is still by my side. Well over 6 years now and we're binge watching Game of Thrones with our 3 Pugs. For me, you had to want what you used to have BACK, so bad!! You'll do anything to get it. That means a lot of sh#t is never coming back, but some of it is.

For me it was an AA meeting, not sure why it worked but it did, in the end.. prayers for your friend.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 31, 2016 - 12:47pm PT
Happy New Year to all - Remember to be safe out there during the Drinking Hours. If you're trying to stay away from the first one, consider calling and checking in with someone throughout the night, having something sweet available, and keep a (non)alcoholic drink in your hands - don't set it down and wonder which is yours!
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Jan 1, 2017 - 04:33pm PT
Approach by Alcoholics Anonymous may seem like shamanism/voodoo.
However the "Power of Habit" book provides a rational explanation why it works.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 2, 2017 - 05:03am PT
totaly stoked to not feel like sh#t on the first day of 2017.....
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Apr 20, 2017 - 07:55pm PT
https://soundcloud.com/bengravy/four-leaf-clovers-1?in=bengravy/sets/old-friends-ep
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Apr 20, 2017 - 08:27pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Apr 20, 2017 - 10:55pm PT
An old friend went to jail for felony charges in a downward spiral of internal pain and daily drunken stupor. Tried to offer some thoughtful encouragement to work his program some time before that. It's somewhat like having a friend die, but frustratingly worse in that it may not be final and could be more of the same when out.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 26, 2017 - 04:48pm PT
21 Years sober today!

I had a few mild tinges of "wouldn't a drink be...." in the last two weeks, but nothing really serious and luckily I was well able to remind myself not to play that game for more that the few seconds it takes my brain to notice that I am doing it. For me, I have gained too much to ever risk seeing if I can "get away with a few drinks here and there." I know that I cannot. I know it beyond any doubt.

So, it was a pretty low key day, and I kept forgetting to mention it as my anniversary until I got online.
okay, whatever

climber
Aug 26, 2017 - 06:52pm PT
I echo Walleye's post.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Aug 26, 2017 - 08:14pm PT
Congrats Happie - that's a serious achievement and a reminder that we have to keep working at the positive changes we want to see in our lives.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 26, 2017 - 08:43pm PT
The climbing culture has always lauded the heavy drinkers among us...something that has been apparent on ST.
Well...I've been around long enough to have seen far too many of my climbing friend's lives end early because of alcoholism.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 26, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
Happie. Birthday Happie.... and someone else who knows who they are!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 27, 2017 - 04:09pm PT
Yes, and a bump for that someone else who always remembers it is their day because the see me post about mine - I almost forgot a few tomes yesterday myself.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Aug 27, 2017 - 04:23pm PT
28 years sober for me August 17th...where did the time go?,
many, many years past my expiration date, had I still been drinking.

And Happy birthday to all the August birthday people here!!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 29, 2017 - 06:20pm PT
congrats happie and everyone else.. My 11th slipped by unnoticed on the 25th and I randomely remembered on the 26th at a music party while explaining why I had 2 cases of seltzer on ice.. I ripped it up that night ;) I just remembered again and I had to search the forum to be shure that happie was OK.
salad

Big Wall climber
Aug 30, 2017 - 12:05pm PT
Congrats Happy, Bush and Trad.

The 28th marked 1 year for me.
Woody the Beaver

Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
Aug 30, 2017 - 02:41pm PT
Congratulations to you cats! 15 years for me August 15!
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Sep 8, 2017 - 11:35pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
hb81

climber
Sep 15, 2017 - 01:59pm PT
Day 54 for me. I'm pretty sure this is the longest I've ever gone without getting drunk or high since my first taste of booze some 20ish years ago.
Been going to NA meetings at least twice a week. Lovely and lively bunch of people.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Sep 15, 2017 - 07:32pm PT
Congrats to everyone sticking to it, and keep it up hb, it is the best gift you can give to people who care about you. I have seen too many good people suffer the effects of substance abuse. It touches many lives.

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Nov 24, 2017 - 11:01am PT
Hope everyone made it through the ThanksDrinking holiday intact.

I made a close call mistake last week, and have to be careful for a while. I was visiting my sister and wanted to make a special meal for her and her family. I decided on Spaghetti Bolognese and went to find a good recipe. When it called for 1 cop dry red wine, I just thought "I'll be sure to boil out the alcohol, and just leave the flavor.

Well....it all went well, but over the next few days I realized I was thinking "too much" about the next thing I could make that might call for booze.... That didn't ring the wake up alarm for me. I traveled on, and am now at one of my other sister's places, in the town I grew up in.

Seeing the old dance clubs I went to as a kid was bringing back fonder memories than the reality was, and I found myself thinking "I wonder if my sister would want to go out dancing....and wouldn't it be funny if I met a guy back here in FdL?" I knew that it was the drink sneaking up on me then, but still wasn't as cognizant of what was happening as I should have been.

It was only after realizing these "thoughts" weren't going away, and that I was beginning to travel a path that would take me gently into the night, until one day I would wake up and realize, too late, that I had stepped off my sober path after more than 21 years.

So - phew! I realized this before it was too late, but that doesn't mean I am safe. I need to be ultra careful as to what I do for a while, until I feel enough distance has passed. A wrong turn down some dimly lit alley is always possible, and to realize how easily I was able to tell myself that it was okay to try cooking with wine. Clearly, for me, it is NOT!

mynameismud

climber
backseat
Nov 24, 2017 - 11:19am PT
First day without a drink was 5th of June this year. Several days of high stress and temptation but have not caved.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Nov 24, 2017 - 03:37pm PT
Moderaton in all things. Especially sobriety and chastity.
in there

Social climber
isle 3
Jan 27, 2018 - 06:23am PT
middle life in america.
though i'm on the left coast,
i'm sopping in excess.
i don't know what i need
or what i should fear running out of.

i eat meal after meal and i usually
don't even have to pry my existence from the brink of sour destiny in between heaping spoonfuls.

money is everywhere.
booze, too.

my emotional stasis is delicate.
all of us must consider and care for that state
to which we return when unaltered.

because it constitutes us.

i'm realizing that boozing in and of itself is cool.
i drink, and i lose cares. shedding cares is good.
so far my bevvying has not taken from my bank account, derailed my carreer, or broken apart my family. for this i'm astounded.

but that stasis. that is was concerns me.
that is what motivates me to leave the liquor store empty-handed.
becuase i depend upon that stasis; my life shoots from there.

i'm learning to treat that stasis like an immigrant,
for it too is fleeing war.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jan 27, 2018 - 08:48am PT
I’ve Had My Say

I was near delirium tremens
The next step along the way
When she took the kids and left me
With nothing left to say

So I drank myself a bender
Unremarkable to convey
That such was my condition
'Twards perdition on that day

The sky was red
When I came to
My world was split
For all I knew
I'd lost my love
And family too
The sky was red
Instead of blue

So I drank myself a bender
Unremarkable to convey
That such was my condition
'Twards perdition on that day

Some would say I saw the light
But that night I saw only blue
In the morning I saw scarlet
And I didn't have a clue

I'd lost my love
And family too
The sky was red
Instead of blue
But my love came back
What could I say
Only after I’d died
I remember the day

What say you to a man
Gone and back from the dead
Was gone such a long time
‘Twas the price I had to pay

Only grieve for the loved ones
Life always goes full circle
Don’t grieve for me friend
You know I’ve had my say

-bushman
01/27/2018
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Feb 2, 2018 - 10:05pm PT
My first cousin back in Texas accidentally overdosed on opioids and alcohol a couple nights ago. I just found out about it. She was only 55 with two grandchildren and a good financial situation but she had long term addiction issues.

I'm really heartbroken for her son and her grandchildren. Her younger sister overdosed on prescription meds twenty some years ago and big sister never got over it. She would tie one on for days whenever that date came around but this time it finally caught up with her. Sometimes I wonder what this world is coming to.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 2, 2018 - 10:13pm PT
Vilification of humans for being,.... human.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
May 6, 2018 - 01:09am PT
The Toll Bridge

I was born the son
of a preacher man
Wild and reckless
and wreaking mayhem
Drinking to try and
erase all my sins
At war with myself
and trying to pretend

That drinking and drugging
were my friends
That lying and stealing
we’re justified in the end
That the world was the problem
so I would dig in
Lying to myself
I’d lift the bottle again

Those days seemed long
but time had grown short
My world was shifting
as the winds grew cold
The world closed in
and I saw myself
In the blink of an eye
I had grown old

I thought I was still a young man
I thought I had more time
My mind was not mature
yet my youth had waned
And all the love that I’d found
I’d pushed away
While all the good within me
I had shamed

As my world collapsed
I could see my specter
Laying drunk and dying
in some run down dive
Sobered by that vision
my view began to clear
This disease of addiction
wouldn’t let me out alive

Time passed and I was sober
Until a moment of despair
I dared not take a drink
but otherwise I did not care
I came upon a canyon
the abyss that lie below
Was at the depth of my mortality
with one final act to go

There beyond the mists
hung by aging banyan boughs
Was a bridge across the morass
that was seemingly unsound
The alternative was a round
in the barrel of a gun
I cringed to think I’d arrived there
from a world I had undone

I started across the abyss
on that rickety strand of wood
Daring to not look down
as if that did me any good
At the halfway point I paused
and with trembling lost my poise
When I heard something whisper
without making any noise

It said the price to pay
was the final toll
A series of actions
I thought I knew but oh
The first lesson was gratitude
beyond faith and sacrifice
Gratitude for freedom of
the choices in our life

The next lesson was suffering
of a depth I’d rarely known
Bare faced raw and primal
but embraced for what might grow
The final lesson was love
beyond everything held dear
Beyond the stars and all the planets
Beyond all reasons not yet clear

The final lesson left me baffled
and the ringing in my ears
Was drowning out the spirit’s voice
as I trembled with fear
I took another step
until the trembling had passed
With every step disaster threatened
each step might be my last

A hundred years seemed to pass
before I reached the other side
Then I knelt and kissed the earth
for the voice had never lied
I knew then that the lessons
now imprinted in my mind
Were the toll that I had paid
a gift adversity would only find

The toll bridge was behind me
but along this strangers path
Lie many canyons much larger now
than any in my past
With one foot after the other
as many wisemen have said
We must try to make the best of it
until it’s time for bed

For the days might seem long
but time grows short
Our worlds are shifting
as the winds grow cold
Then the world closes in
as we see ourselves
And in the blink of an eye
We’ve grown old

-bushman
hb81

climber
Jun 11, 2018 - 03:16pm PT
Day 323 off the sauce.

Bourdain's death really hit me as I enjoyed his books and shows, and he very much was one of "us" (addicts)...
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jun 11, 2018 - 03:24pm PT
Good on ya hb81. Keep it up and don't get complacent; the wolf is always circling. What I've found helpful is to connect drinking to the worst ways I could think of to die and negative aspects of drinking:
A=B+C+D+F+I

A: Alcohol
B: Burning to death
C: Cancer
D: Drowning
F: loss of Freedom
I: loss of Integrity

It seems stupid but keeps me grounded. Whenever I get the urge or see an ad or pass a liquor store I repeat that formula in my mind.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 11, 2018 - 03:41pm PT
There's a meditation meeting very early morning just a few miles from my house. I've been pretty good these last few years about going every day that I'm in town. Whatever freedom I have, after all these years, I owe in large part to staying close to the program. Going over the first three steps sets me up for having a solid day. Though sometimes I have to pause a few times throughout my day to make sure I remember who I am: An alcoholic, who can go south fast as the next thought.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jun 11, 2018 - 05:24pm PT
There's a meditation meeting very early morning just a few miles from my house.

There is a meditation meeting at a Buddhist Temple near where I live in Little Rock. Haven't been yet but hear good things. Gotta get myself to go as I appreciate the Buddhist philosophy.
mynameismud

climber
backseat
Jun 11, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
372 days.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jun 11, 2018 - 08:34pm PT
Yay mud!
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jun 11, 2018 - 08:54pm PT
An alternative to the AA twelve step program is SMART Recovery. I'm not particularly spiritual and the AA philosophy did not resonate with me. There are similar ideas with SMART and the two are not mutually exclusive. One thing about SMART is their approach does not require one to concede they are powerless over their addiction. This philosophy teaches that one is indeed in control. One makes the conscious decision to take a drink or use. SMART is applicable to any addiction; alcohol, drugs, sex, overeating or whatever. They treat it as a holistic approach and don't discern between what one's addiction is. There is an underlying reason one seeks escape and it is addressed.

https://www.smartrecovery.org/
hb81

climber
Jul 24, 2018 - 09:33am PT
1 year sober today. Best wishes to all of you who share the same issues.

Take care
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jul 24, 2018 - 01:49pm PT
Awesome!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jul 24, 2018 - 02:15pm PT
Congratulations on 1 year, and for 4 tomorrow!

I'm coming into the final stretch of my anniversary in about a month. At this time each year I have at least a few days that have a melancholy undertone that seems to me to be a body memory of the week or so before I got sober.

I've had a couple drunk dreams this year - they always seem to be that I've been drinking all along, or smoking pot on occasion, and am only now realizing I haven't sober after all. They are such weird dreams, as I am always like "But wait....how can I not be sober. How can I not have realized I've been doing this." Then I wake up, and feel that confusion, but come out of it and am like "Phew! Just a dream."
Trump

climber
Jul 24, 2018 - 02:37pm PT
Coming from a long line of alcoholics-in-recovery, I sometimes wonder if the drinking culture might have a climbing problem. My admiration and respect to those who manage their drinking and climbing in a way that pleases them.

Stay safe out there, and cheers to looking on the sunny side!, whichever side you find that to be for you.
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Jul 24, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
They are such weird dreams, as I am always like "But wait....how can I not be sober. How can I not have realized I've been doing this." Then I wake up, and feel that confusion, but come out of it and am like "Phew! Just a dream."

I get those pretty often. Not always drinking dreams but very vivid semi-nightmares where I'm in some dire situation or another. They are so vivid that I've woken myself up by physically acting on the situation, kinda like a virtual reality thing. I used to not remember dreams much, but these are so real and usually include significant people in my past and current life.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 17, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
I'm in the countdown to my anniversary, which will be August 26th, if I can continue to stay away from a drink, one day at a time. It will be 22 years sober.

Today was a weird day that I am just going to put down as the seeming body memories I get around this time of year - remembering how lost I felt in the weeks leading to my bottom. I have been waking up in a slightly angry mood, when there's really nothing to be angry about that I can put a finger on. My patience with people has been low, and though I haven't said anything or used a tone that I would have to apologize for, I don't like feeling the way I do when dealing with difficult people.

I wish I could be more like the people who can smile and pretend they believe the person who is telling them something flat out untrue, or who are not bothered by people being azzholes, and patiently explain how there must have been "some miscommunication, somewhere along the line." Instead I look at them with a smirk, and eyes that say "I know you are lying," or "It has not escaped my attention that you are an azzhole."

It feels like a failure of mine, that I haven't developed/evolved in the way a healthy person does; that I still get so emotionally tied up in other people's behaviors, that I let it affect me.

I don't know it I will ever get past this issue, but one thing I do know, is that I don't feel this way ALL the time. And so I can take comfort in knowing the feelings of self-dislike are temporary, and will pass, even if they may return again.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 17, 2018 - 07:49pm PT
I had forgotten my anniversary is aug 24th? happy always reminds me. I also get those drunk dreams. have not had one in awhile but I do get them. in my dream I can have a couple of beers because it does not count in the dream but then at some point I realize that I am full of sh#t and wasted... I also end up squatting in the old hunting camp where I used to live. it is in terrible disrepair and just barely able to keep the elements at bay with duct tape and plastic sheeting. I have to protect my turf from other homeless people...
I guess that is a nightmare....
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 17, 2018 - 07:51pm PT
its actually pretty good these days. will be 12 years in a few weeks. perhaps the dreams just keep me honest....
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Aug 17, 2018 - 09:11pm PT
Not expecting I would have any drinking/using dreams, I had a weed dream the other night, and in that semi-conscious moment before waking, I contemplated that it would be ok to take up using it again. But I knew what to do when I fully woke up as I reminded myself of my condition, remembering the desperate dance, the wasted finances, and the disdain and disappointment I always felt towards myself for giving in to temptation.

You see, I was not a normal drunk and weed smoker, and when partying with friends, I secretly always yearned to get more high in private where social conventions would not limit my consumption of alcohol or the green stuff. Naturally, smoking so much weed and drinking so much had an adverse effect on my short term memory and overall cognitive functions. Consequently, I don’t remember a lot of what happened during those years.

Today marks my 29th year clean and sober and I can’t believe how so much time has gone by since that dark, dark hour. It was on August 17th, 1989 when I took my last drink or a drug. That was the day when everything changed for me. I’ll not suffer any more from that form of slow death, as long I can remember what got me there and what I have to do about it.

-bushman
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Aug 18, 2018 - 08:16am PT
Picking up my 6 month chip at me homegroup this next Wednesday. Funny, I'm the chair of that group for another 6 months. Did not think at all I'd piss away almost 8 years sober.. but it happened.

~Caylor
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 18, 2018 - 12:18pm PT
I remember when a guy who had double digit sobriety in one of my AA groups slipped. Nobody EVER would have expected he would slip. What happened was that he got into a relationship with someone, and had his heart broken. He slipped because it hurt so much.

He kept coming back to the rooms, for a while, unable to regain a foothold in sobriety. It was torture for him. He WANTED to get straight, and couldn't put together more than a few days.

It was so painful for the rest of us. If good wishes could have gotten him clean, they would have. We were ALL batting for him. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to do it, and at some point overdosed on a mixture of drugs and alcohol, and died.

He was one of the men in my circle that I thought "if he was available, I'd be interested."

When he slipped, and later died, it was like a course of shocks going through my body. If "he" couldn't have just that one drink, than sure as hell I cannot."

That's all it took - one drink.


Edit: Congratulations to you all with your milestones! Especially Hank, who may go by another name, but has a thread that is still just as sweet.

Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Aug 18, 2018 - 12:54pm PT
Thanks Mike/Hank.

Especially Hank, who may go by another name

Just to be clear, this is Hank Caylor, not using my full name as I do Govt. Contract Security stuff and pretty much nobody else uses their real name around here either. There is no mystery, just tired of every dumbass thing I say ending up on Google..

Congrats folks, very very glad this thread is still going strong.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Aug 18, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
hey there say, ... happygrrrl... and each and everyone of you...

congratulations on the anniversaries...

and, on all that hard work, and trust, to get to this point...

yes, it is 'trust' too-- trust that the trails will NOT cave in on
you, as you take to them in a 'new and different' manner, than before...


for those that may have 'ended up' on the 'rabbit trail' that will
slip you back into the hole-- remember your success:

remember this:

when you ARE on the trail... the trail works, and YOU DO get 'on upwards'
to the new beauty, along the way...


a slip, is a slip, not a failure of the trail...
just mark down why, the rabbit-trail 'caught' you...
and, at what point in life you were at, personally or work-wise, and,
'and physical weakness that may have been going on' aAND--

keep that an in information to 'recognize' a rabbit trail can do catch
you and this can make you stronger yet... (not weaker, as it will trick
you to THINK-so)...

remember -- this 'stuff' wants to control you...

if you know how and why-- you are THEN 'in the drivers' seat,
and, the rest of the control is up to you, to--
keep you 'KEY' and 'take your trail' ...

not the 'stuffs' ... and, rabbit trails will have 'no pull' if
you 'remember' how 'one' tripped you up...


EDIT:
SAY, HANK... i was just thinking of you, when i saw the name, and was
curious...

say-- had you in mind, too, when i posted this...
you WILL do it...

keep the 'key of insight' ...

i believe in you...


and-- yes, this is FOR ALL OF YOU, AS WELL-- you are all special! ...

everyone, 'drink-wise' or 'drug wise' or, 'emotion wise'
or, WHATEVER our troubles may be...

rabbit trails... sly, side temptations, hurt the good-solid trail
that we really want and love... (they deceive us, as to 'something there
that we might be missing, lacking, or, might just just seem to 'be fun and add a bit of spice', or, it may have some 'cryptic answer to a part of the new trail that we have not solved yet ) --

the 'powerful allure' stuff that makes one fall into the pit:
ANYONE...

and thus, come the danger, where one can lose it all--if not
able to climb back to trail--if no friend to help pull up back up...

no fun, in that, and no answer to life, either...

let's KEEP LIFE... and keep our trail clear of brush that
might hide or fancy up' those rabbit trail...


awwww, the beauty of a good solid clear trail!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 29, 2018 - 03:33am PT
my 12th came and went aug 24th or 25th? getting old and not remembering as well. I noticed on the 26th... Hope Happie is doing well I know hers is near mine.
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Aug 29, 2018 - 08:11am PT
That's badass tradmanclimbs! I pray I'm there one day.

Hankster
salad

Big Wall climber
Aug 29, 2018 - 12:27pm PT
As of today I can actually say I've been sober for yearS.

2 years for me. Good job everyone.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 29, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
hang in there Hank. bummed Isa and I did not hit CO on our trip this summer so we missed the chance to try and climb with the various culprits in that area...
mynameismud

climber
backseat
Aug 29, 2018 - 05:06pm PT
Congrats Sal
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Aug 29, 2018 - 09:09pm PT
Got a text from my nephew this evening. He knows my history of alcoholism to a degree.

He's having his own problems now. Wife kicked him out today. Has 3 little girls; owns a home here in Little Rock. He wanted to talk. Told him to come over. We've never been close as I've spent the last 30 years in SoCal.

He came over an hour or so ago. We talked for a while. I related my story and let him know from my experience the progressive nature of which addiction takes it's toll. It was a good conversation, but he is still not at the point of acceptance and "readiness" to stop. Hopefully it will sink in.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Sep 12, 2018 - 08:36am PT
I have some very bad news… Our son Manuel succumbed to his illnesses on Monday. We were all with him at the hospital when he died, the doctors tried to save him but he was too far along with his liver failure than anyone had thought.

It has been a shock to my wife and our immediate family, and we are all heartbroken and grieving, and we have a lot of things to do in the next several days. I could go into more detail about why and how he passed, but please understand if I do not respond to questions here for awhile.

I only mention it here because he died from cirrosis of the liver due to alcoholism, even though it has been over year since he took his last drink, and even after many weeks and months in and out of the hospital under the care of many doctors and specialists. I just hope that by posting here, if even one person is motivated to face their alcoholism before it’s too late, that I might have done some good.

We were hoping that by this winter he would be eligible and healthy enough to go on the transplant list and he would have a new chance at life. He was only 41 years old and leaves behind a wife and two adult children. We thought we would have a lot more time with him, a few more years at least.

-Tim
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 12, 2018 - 09:03am PT
Damn Tim.... That sucks. Goes to show the damage is not easily repaired.

Sorry for your loss...
Woody the Beaver

Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
Sep 12, 2018 - 10:14am PT
Bushman, what a loss for you and your family. I'm deeply sorry to hear that.
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Sep 12, 2018 - 10:14am PT
Sorry to hear this Tim. Positive vibes and prayers to you and your family.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Sep 12, 2018 - 10:56am PT
Oh, Bushman. My heart breaks for you and your family. To lose a son, and at such a young age. And to such a horrible reaper. I am so sorry.

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 14, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
Condolences and positive vibes Bushman. Thanks for thinking of us on what’s got to be a horrible time!
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Sep 14, 2018 - 09:58pm PT
Aw Geez Tim (Bushman) that is hard to hear and I'm so sorry.

I can't even imagine; my son is so precious to me and real tragedy has eluded me in my life so far. I honestly don't know if I'd ever be strong enough to handle a loss so close.

Very sorry, that's all,
Arne
John M

climber
Sep 14, 2018 - 10:05pm PT
Thats heart wrenching Bushman.. I love this thread because there is so much positivity in the number of people here who are overcoming their addictions, and yet there is a harsh reality to alcoholism which people have to face daily. I am so sorry for your loss and I pray for strength for you and your family.

John
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Oct 6, 2018 - 07:01am PT
Hey guys. I don’t post much anymore, but I’m back on the sober train. Went to my first AA meeting this past Monday, and my second on Tuesday. Whole long story behind this decision, anyone else who is an agnostic/atheist currently in AA? Want to talk? I’m not in crisis or anything, just trying to improve. I figure this is like pre-spray.

Edit; So sorry to hear about your son Bushman.
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Oct 6, 2018 - 07:14am PT
I never really drank too hard but I did not like the way alcohol affected me- made me sort of crabby and less patient. I figured I wasn't doing myself any favors so I have decided to stop drinking- we'll see how this goes.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Oct 6, 2018 - 08:27am PT
Brandon, or any others who can relate to this; Since we lost our boy I’ve gone through a series of emotions I never fully experienced when I lost my brother Tobin back in 1980. For one thing even though Manuel was a fully grown 41 year old man and had been on his own with a family for many years, I still felt that sense of responsibility one feels their entire life for their kids.

The other difference is that when Tobin died I was drinking and toking through it all and for many years after. Many emotions around that were not fully processed by me until years after I became sober. In fact, I didn’t really start remembering more and writing about him until I’d been sober over twenty years. I never drank or used because of pain over losing a brother, but when he died it had been my coping mechanism since my early teen years.

Losing Manuel I’ve felt profound grief, anger, guilt, remorse, uselessness, and meaninglessness. But also I’m experiencing a renewed sense of rekindled love and appreciation for those still alive. I’ve had to reach out to mentors and those I’ve known who’ve gone through similar experience and draw on their strength to keep it together and be strong for my family. There are several survivors who lean on me and I love this family more than anything and wouldn’t want to let anyone down.

But along with all that, I have been an agnostic for many years, and finally rectified my beliefs with purely scientific ideas several years ago. I am an admitted atheist if anyone were to ask, but being in the minority of such beliefs among my family and peers, I don’t bring it up that often anymore.

Point I’m trying to make is; as much anger and blame I’ve felt since Manuel died, towards the disease, myself and my shortfallings as a parent, towards addiction, towards him, and the world itself, I’ve never blamed god this time around. I can’t blame a thing I no longer sense, or feel, or even conjecture about. I understand that the universe is a harsh cold place, our lives are temporary and fleeting. I’m ok with that.

I am so glad to have had a son, he was my adopted son, but I loved him and helped to raise him as my own, and had him in my life for thirty seven years from the age of four when I met his mom and sister, and we became a family. His kids only know me as their grandpa (papa), and the extended families we all share all are now closer because of his loss.

As I mentioned I’m ok with the harsh cold finality of our temporary situation in a harsh cold universe. We live, we often reproduce, then we die. But in the interim we get to know each other some along the way, we love, we find, passions, we hurt and grieve to find common ground to bond together.

We will find in our lives, if we’re fortunate, only few long time close friends and even fewer lasting loves. Passions, hobbies, careers, material possessions, status, physical health, even our reputation and memories will come and go. But in the end when all is said and done, I look up to the night sky and only wonder. Then I go back inside to be close to Manuel’s mom, the one I’ve loved and stood by, and who has stood by and loved me all these years, and near to the one sure and longest lasting expression of what I’ve known and felt from another.
Trump

climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 08:43am PT
Bushman my condolences on the loss of your son.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It’s a big job just trying to protect ourselves from the perils of being human, and I admire the care and love that you put into doing the same for your child, someone who was born as someone else’s child.

Our best is good enough, for you, for me, for your son, for my kids, and for all the other someone elses among us.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 6, 2018 - 08:55am PT
Beautiful thoughts Bushman. Be well.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Oct 24, 2018 - 08:23am PT
I keep trying for it, but sobriety is something I haven’t attained yet. My wife is leaving me after two years of marriage. I’ve let an addiction dictate my life for so many years and it’s finally caught up with me. Super sad, and I deserve everything. Stay off of the booze, please.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 3, 2019 - 12:12am PT
F*#k. I keep f*#king up. Anyone out there?
silentone

Mountain climber
wisconsin
Jan 3, 2019 - 01:33am PT
Brandon, we are here for you and I know exactly what your going through........you can only do your best and then do better.........do something besides drinking that gives you peace........I am sober since 12-31-18 so not long but every day I feel stronger....dude I have followed your work in the show me what your building thread and you have a gift........keep on brother..........
Peace
Silent One
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jan 3, 2019 - 02:05am PT

There is joy to be found in your craft, Brandon. There is living beyond pain, fear, grief, and loneliness, brother. We all deserve not killing ourselves with the toxic old demon, alcohol. My life is too full now without booze to barely keep up with it. Wishing you well and good fortune in your attempt to find sobriety. It is a choice you make minute by minute. Just for today you do not have to drink. The journey is always at the beginning.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 3, 2019 - 04:24am PT
So, it’s just barely seven am. I just cranked one of my favorite beers because I gave up beer for vodka, to be sneaky, obviously, a year ago. Wife is out of town so I can pull it off. I have a meeting with my doctor in an hour or so to begin medically withdrawing myself from alcohol. I went cold turkey yesterday and thought I was going to die. Literally. I’m putting a lot of confidence in my doctor. Fingers crossed, next post will be sober. Pretty sure in the fifteen years that I’ve conversed with all of you, I’ve never been sober. Time for a f*#king change!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 3, 2019 - 06:47am PT
Good luck, and keep us posted,Brandon. Some people get lucky, as I did, with sobriety itself easy to keep(no booze, I mean; other parts of emotional sobriety give me such a run for my money people still avert their eyes because it's difficult to watch). And some struggle mightily, to stay away from that first drink.

It's that first drink that is the fire you have to keep away from. The rest is.....life.


As for being sneaky....usually not something that is a good strategy in the long run, as you noticed.

Let's try to keep this thread bumped. And way to go Silent One. Happy New Year, indeed.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 4, 2019 - 12:52am PT
hey there say, Brandon_


way to go... amen... good for you...

honesty, is the best... as to-- working at, and finding ways to change...

it seems hard to imagine, but-- someday, you TOO, like others,
will be able to look back, at:

a good victory...
and, be GLAD for it...

sending love and prayers...



keep checking in! and, keep posting and friends will be here,
and, we will keep on, be helping...
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 4, 2019 - 03:10am PT
dude. you have to actually want to quit. If you don't want to quit your just spinning your wheels... when you get to that place where you really honestly want to make a change you can do it.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 4, 2019 - 04:42am PT
How’s it going Brandon. Transcontinental sober vibes sent!
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Jan 4, 2019 - 05:04am PT
Brandon-The focus and ability to get things done when sober is worth it alone. Sobriety is not torture, it's more like liberation and a high of it's own. Doing what you know is right and getting back to the line are fantastic feelings. I can only imagine the satisfaction would be that much greater with a significant others well being involved.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 4, 2019 - 05:13am PT
So far so good. Powerful drug the doctor gave me though.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 4, 2019 - 06:15am PT
That's sometimes what it takes to get the foot into the stirrup of the sobriety saddle. Countless people could have had the chance for sobriety, and didn't, before these new drug therapies.

Of course once seated learning to ride is another thing. But same as in horsemanship, easy does it.

Giddyup!
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Jan 4, 2019 - 07:21am PT
C'mon Brandon. What Tradman says above. I learned from my own son who was just as wild as I was growing up. He said, "Dad you just have to decide the person you want to be. And then be that person!"

I know that is exactly contrary to the 12 steps of which I had some years of bummer experience with years ago.

Is your doctor giving you Naloxone or a relative of that drug? Friend of mine with a 50 year daily drinking habit just walked away from it after receiving injections and then continuing with oral. Been three years now and he told me, "I know I'm supposed to say this has been hard for me every single day but honestly, I haven't even thought about it since they put me on the medication". He still keeps good beer at his cabin for guests.

You can do it. You can do it.

Arne
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Jan 4, 2019 - 11:48am PT
Here's another option for those who can't stand the god bothering addiction substitution portion of AA. 12 step programs have worked for a lot of folks, but also not for a whole bunch of people, and the statistics are largely intentionally obscured. The problem is when the 12 Step sort of thing is the only offering.
https://rational.org/index.php?id=1

Best of luck Brandon, I've had a number of folks, including my mother, die from alcohol related issues. It's a terrible way to go.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 4, 2019 - 03:46pm PT
Oh for Fux sake, Kent. You're simply posting misinformation.

Have you tried AA? Ever even BEEN to an AA meeting?

Nobody "flunks" in AA. That is not a word in their lexicon.

It's true that AA doesn't work for everyone - but neither does ANY form of medication or therapy. It works for some, and I dare say it's certainly higher that 8%. Until AA was formed, people with the disease had little chance of living a free life much less a sober one.

And one poignat part in that book you dissed is that it SPECIFICALLY says their hope is that - so long as it is needed, that AA is there for people. The writers, one of which was a doctor and the other probably more like a climber than half of those who rope up nowadays, were hardly illiterate. And even if they don't write to the level you feel is worthy - so the fuk what? There ARE drunks who can barely read, and who, especially in early sobriety, can't focus on *big words."

WBraun

climber
Jan 4, 2019 - 03:51pm PT
another nickname is a drunk, yep, a drunkard who failed intelligence.

He's drunk on st00pid .....

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 4, 2019 - 05:54pm PT
I have read some of the *science-based anti-AA stuff over the years.

In my post above, I was referring to your use of the word "flunked," and the idea that a reason someone couldn't stay sober was due to having a character defect. Or, is that the posit of the author?

Because the character defect, as it goes in AA, is pretty much a normal human trait, alcoholic or not. It's just that, from the AA perspective, allowing those traits to rule our emotions tends to trigger our desire for relief...drinking, or other ways of acting out.

I know the medical community is often skeptical of AA. Nothing to prescribe... Maybe if there had been a way to get a referral fee for patients to go to AA they'd be less so....
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 4, 2019 - 06:30pm PT
I know the medical community is often skeptical of AA. Nothing to prescribe... Maybe if there had been a way to get a referral fee for patients to go to AA they'd be less so....


Happi, I could not disagree with you more. The medical community is VERY supportive of AA. I made referrals to 12-step programs on a daily basis for decades.

You should understand that the community is skeptical of ANYTHING, as a scientific endeavor should be.

This is not to say that there are not some practitioners who are naysayers---I'm sure there are! But to paint the whole profession is simply wrong.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2746426/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25421504
WBraun

climber
Jan 4, 2019 - 10:40pm PT
You sound exactly like a brainwashed sterile bureaucrat ......
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jan 4, 2019 - 11:12pm PT
"The unexamined life is not worth living"
-attributable to Socrates
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 4, 2019 - 11:53pm PT
stupid people already have all the answers ~ Socrates
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 5, 2019 - 05:21am PT
No withdrawals or cravings yesterday or thus far today. Feeling good. Withdrawals were severe every other time I’ve tried this, so I rushed back to the bottle to make them go away.
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Jan 5, 2019 - 05:26am PT
choose life
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 5, 2019 - 06:50am PT
That's great Brandon. It sounds like your body was going into physical withdrawal, and no wonder you would want to save yourself from that. It can be fatal.

Here's to your sober life ahead(holds up my coffee mug).
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 5, 2019 - 06:54am PT
I figured that was your passage, Another.

As I said, the condition of character issue IS something every human has....

I'll tell you this though. I got sober on the Upper West Side in NYC back in 1996. I have almost ALL the group I ended up hanging with on my Facebook. All sober still. Others from the group not on FB referred to on occasion, sober.

I learned to stick with those who were "following the simple program" and while it's work, and uncomfortable at times, it is in fact pretty simple, and the crux of it DOES lay in taking responsibility for OUR part in things. Many people don't want to do that..... You *might* gal into that category yourself! Not for me to decide on that... I need to keep my eye on my own self, and that does mean taking a look at why I tend to be critical if your posting themes.....

I cannot think of a SINGLE person who actually lived in the 12 Steps who did not stay sober. A few, over the years, came as a huge disconcerting surprise when they slipped. Guess what...when they came back, there was always an admission on where there had been that. *dishonesty.*

That's a harsh word, and maybe a different term would be used, were the Big Book written today. But in 1935, it was a different time.

As for the *numbers,* it is a fluctuating line, where going to an AA meeting and following the program lays. Someone court mandated,who has to get a signature at the meeting but can't wait to get those however many meetings done might be,but more likely is not, working the program. They'd be counted as having tried AA by your author, and having flunked out as you called it. AA itself doesn't keep track of who comes to meetings, or even keep numbers of bodies in the various meetings. But generally going to one meeting and not staying sober would not be considered *in AA.* For sure some court mandated folks do end up getting sober, and that's really great. But AA is not for those who need it, but want it.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 5, 2019 - 07:18am PT
And Ken, you are right, and I apologize for the broad brushstroke. I myself got referred to AA by a therapist on my first or second session.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 5, 2019 - 08:11am PT
I take it all back. Detox is f*#king hard even with drugs. Tremors were so bad yesterday that I couldn’t assemble a freaking taco. Had to give up and shovel food into my mouth. Not a proud moment. Tremors are just as bad today, and cravings returned. I even went so far as to buy a nip at the liquor store, just in case. Talked with my doc after that for a half hour. I dumped out the nip and am fast tracking the next drug that I was scheduled to begin on Monday. I’ve never liked pharmies, but when you are at wits end, you’ll try anything. I really hope this works, my willpower has never been stronger than my demon. Makes me feel like a lesser human but I don’t give a f*#k anymore. Need to stop this, and I truly want it. Thanks for listening everyone. And, Another Nickname, you’re free to write whatever you want, but I’ve yet to read anything positive from you. Maybe you should work on that. You probably won’t though. Once a negativity addict, always a negativity addict, right?
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Jan 5, 2019 - 09:32am PT
Brandon,
Once again I ask, Naloxone?

Arne
WBraun

climber
Jan 5, 2019 - 09:34am PT
Yowza !!! sounds horrible Brandon.

Hang in there and you'll get over that hill ....
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 5, 2019 - 09:39am PT
Stay tough, Brandon. You've got a big fish to reel in and it's a fighter. Good thinking on your part to call your doc.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 5, 2019 - 09:41am PT
Just upped the amount of pills I’m taking. Got a prescription for Nalaxone. I hate pills.

Arne, it’s been Libitrum or some such for the last two days. Now augmented with the new one.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Jan 5, 2019 - 09:57am PT
Naloxone is going to work. My buddy I spoke of above went into a stroke-like condition just from cutting back on the brandy enough to drive from Montana to Minnesota. When he got there he became delirious, they figured out he was in withdrawal and not having a stroke. Put him on the Naloxone and he's never looked back since. Removes all urge; apparently.

You can do this. Combine the medicine with deep resolve you want something different for your life.

Arne
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 5, 2019 - 10:02am PT
This is probably the only thing that I’ll ever agree on with Another Nickname, that the quote below is both f*#ked and antiquated.


"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way."

Beyond that, the people at the single AA meeting I go to every week are amazing. I keep going back because of them, not for direct help.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 5, 2019 - 10:05am PT
Arne, super encouraging to hear. Taking my first dose right f*#king now.
John M

climber
Jan 5, 2019 - 10:15am PT
Once a negativity addict, always a negativity addict, right?

I believe that it is possible to overcome anything, including addiction to alcohol. This is one of the areas that I have a problem with AA, in that it appears to me to subscribe to the belief that "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic". This belief is displayed in the practice of how one introduces oneself in a meeting. " HI.. my name is.... I am an alcoholic. ". Forgive me if I am wrong as I have limited experience with AA, but that is my understanding of how things work at these meetings. If it is true and people do identify themselves in this manner, then this creates a psychological feedback loop and thus a self perpetuating psychosis that makes it nearly impossible to recover from. I would prefer that people identify themselves by their name and perhaps add that they have a problem with alcohol, rather then it being their identity. Words are powerful and are creative. Saying that you have a problem rather then that you are the problem allows you to own the problem and if you own something, then you can change it. From a psychological perspective I believe that it is much easier to change the things that you own versus changing who you are.

Brandon. I believe that you can overcome this problem. I am rooting for you.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Jan 5, 2019 - 10:31am PT
What they did with him was gave him an expensive shot of it, once a month for three months, then put him on oral tablets. They told him the shots were the most effective.

Good luck. And I agree with John M. above. Also, don't let relapses destroy you. They are a part of recovery. Most addicts go through many relapses before they truly find their resolve. If you do relapse, pick up the pieces from where you left off and begin again. Don't throw it all in and continue it on into a bender, destroying all your efforts to date. Stay positive.

Arne
Jim Clipper

climber
Jan 5, 2019 - 10:47am PT
Live like Hank!


seriously, be well. folks are watching, pulling for you.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 5, 2019 - 10:49am PT
Yeah, sorry John. You’re totally correct. I was just trying to turn Another Nickname’s words on him, albeit weakly. I guess I just don’t like someone who never has something positive to bring to the discussion. If my writing about my personal problems is making someone else’s life worse, my words will be deleted in a heartbeat. My journey is going to continue, hopefully for the better. Drugs, which I abhor for the most part, are going to be playing a central role in my life. Depression, withdrawal, and future cravings. Pills will abound and it bothers me on some level. However, what are my alternatives? Suicide because of severe depression? Suicide or alcohol poisoning from alcoholism? I say no to both. Anyone who questions my methods is free to do so, but please do so in a respectful manner. I’ve been writing with many of you for fifteen years. I both know who you are, some personally, others generally, and appreciate all of the discourse that we have shared. Let’s keep it that way, ok? I’m not going to be a dick to any of you unless you act especially dickish to me, and I’m hoping to receive the same amount of civility. Alcoholism(severe) and depression(severe) are not things to be f*#ked with or mocked. Love you ST. Brandon Mayo-
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 5, 2019 - 10:56am PT
If anyone ever wants to shoot the sh#t about this really messed up situation, my number is the NH area code 456. 2949. I’m open to a conversation, fo real. This is the most difficult I’ve dealt with in a great long while, if ever.
Jim Clipper

climber
Jan 5, 2019 - 10:57am PT
No mocking. Hang in there. Glad to see the support, even virtual. Don't forget to laugh, or maybe at least keep trying, until you feel it again.
John M

climber
Jan 5, 2019 - 11:00am PT
I'm glad to hear that you are giving it a go Brandon. I believe that it will be very good for you. As for using meds/drugs to help you overcome issues, I believe that meds/drugs do have their uses. I took anti-depressants for 8 years to help myself get to a better place. I am now alcohol free and mostly med free. I still use things like over the counter pain meds. I got off anti depressants about 10 years ago. It was a difficult process, but because I had so many side affects from the meds, I felt that I had to do it. I know that JohnE who use to post here still takes anti-depressants. They seem to work for him. We are all different and our paths are different, so I believe that you need to do what works for you.

Best wishes to you mate. I hope that you keep on keeping on.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 5, 2019 - 11:47am PT
I believe that it is possible to overcome anything, including addiction to alcohol. This is one of the areas that I have a problem with AA, in that it appears to me to subscribe to the belief that "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic".

Well, it's good to be an optimist, I suppose.

However, your statement defines your lack of experience with the issue.

You would know that alcoholics are not "addicted" to alcohol. You would know that alcoholics who are not drinking are only non-drinking alcoholics. Drinking is the symptom, or perhaps better said, drinking is the self-medication response to the actual problem, but is not the underlying problem.

This is why it is very simple to get people off of alcohol. Various meds and psychotherapy are quite effective. It is very challenging to keep them off alcohol. Meds tend to be useless, psychotherapy can be very helpful. However, it has to be directed towards the underlying problem----which is often not recognized, either by the patient, nor the therapist (though skilled therapists are looking for it)

The AA point of view comes from the observation that, although a person may not have had a drink for decades, all it takes is to drink, to start the whole downward spiral again. Most who have lived or worked in this field have seen it time and again....or experienced it.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 5, 2019 - 11:53am PT
My nephew and his wife both got a chance at life via Noxalone(sic?). One year clean for her and 2 and change for him. Before they got clean, the had bankrupted my sister(his mom) and her husband and would have had their children removed to the social services system had it not been for parents taking temporary care.

They were on heroin, but my other nephew also had that drug as alcohol withdrawal treatment.

Getting clean becomes a matter of life and death, at some point. I got sober when it was pretty much AA and that's it besides chemical detox. I'm grateful for my luck, and the way I learned how TO live through AA. But I sure don't want to be preachy to someone standing on the precipice.
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Jan 5, 2019 - 12:11pm PT
*
Good luck. And I agree with John M. above. Also, don't let relapses destroy you. They are a part of recovery. Most addicts go through many relapses before they truly find their resolve. If you do relapse, pick up the pieces from where you left off and begin again. Don't throw it all in and continue it on into a bender, destroying all your efforts to date. Stay positive.

Arne

+1

Brandon, I bet everyone who reads this thread is rooting for you, myself including..Go Brandon!

Sending Love & Paz... from Chico..
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Saludos..
Nita..
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 5, 2019 - 02:36pm PT
I’m doing what I’m doing with medicine because I’ve f*#ked up every single recovery attempt so far. My will is equally strong, nay, stronger, because I trust science over my own weak self will. Shitty thing to say about yourself, but there you have it. If anyone on the Internet should know how weak and shittily flawed I am, it’s all of you.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 5, 2019 - 02:41pm PT
I posted a phone number upthread, even if you want to talk sh#t, give me a holler.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Jan 5, 2019 - 02:43pm PT
It is very challenging to keep them off alcohol. Meds tend to be useless,

Naloxone is the exception. As long as you continue to take it you have no urge. Also keeps you off opiates because opiates do not work when you have Naloxone in your system.

Ken M. -- AA and its mission statements are not the only way.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 5, 2019 - 02:48pm PT
I really hope it’s ok to be sharing this stuff on a climbers forum. Seems a little weird sometimes. But, f*#k it, I’ve been writing on the inter web with you people for a long time. So, I guess, tough sh#t. ;)
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 5, 2019 - 02:58pm PT
Sorry to have hijacked this thread.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 5, 2019 - 03:24pm PT
Hijacked? Hardly! This is the thread dedicated TO talking about sobriety. Part of that includes the not sober/getting sober stuff and all that goes with it.

Now if you were posting this in one of the political threads....... hahahah.

Brandon - don't beat yourself up. The booze has been doing that for you. Now it's time to rest and take care of yourself.
Robb

Social climber
Cat Box
Jan 5, 2019 - 03:39pm PT
Brandon
DO NOT GIVE UP!
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Jan 5, 2019 - 03:50pm PT
You haven't highjacked anything Brandon, this IS what this thread is here for, and climbers are as good as any community in terms of providing remote support. Your situation is acute and immediate, it makes a lot of sense for this thread revival to be all about you and your needs. I'm glad you've got some local folks to work with, internet "attaboys" can help but its far from enough.

And really, I didn't intend to start a round of debate about whether AA works or not, I just wanted to point out that there are other options and approaches. I know a lot of folks who swear by AA and have had it work for them, sometimes for decades, its just not something I would be able to follow.

I remember BVB used to tell me that his "higher power" was the 4th pitch 5.9 traverse on Hoppy's Favorite, that clean sweep of squeaky glass friction was all about faith.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 5, 2019 - 04:32pm PT
This thread is REALLY helping, btw.

Clipper, you rock beyond words.

Any phone calls are most welcome. Phone conversations with strangers are really nice, IMO.

Edit; my number can be found upthread. I could use a call or two!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 5, 2019 - 06:27pm PT
It is very challenging to keep them off alcohol. Meds tend to be useless,

Naloxone is the exception. As long as you continue to take it you have no urge. Also keeps you off opiates because opiates do not work when you have Naloxone in your system.

Ken M. -- AA and its mission statements are not the only way.

I agree that AA is not the only way, but it is far more available to most people, with a vast history of success.

You have confused Naloxone, with is only used as an injection or nasal spray, with the oral medication Naltrexone, which is a pill. Naloxone also has the severe disadvantage of only lasting about an hour, while naltrexone is much longer lasting.

But let me describe an example (which is real) of why medications are of limited usefulness. I had a young intelligent woman drunk, whose life was being ruined by her drinking. It took a year of therapy to discover that the reason that she drank, was that every time she was idle, or tried to sleep, the sounds of her own screaming as she was raped by her father, threw her into a terror. A year of pharmacotherapy, including Naltrexone, had no impact on her drinking.

Once the underlying issue was uncovered, therapy directed to dealing with it eventually resulted in stopping drinking.

Drinking is the symptom, not the underlying problem.

BTW, I can't help but find it ironic that people complain about doctors always pushing drugs to push people out the door, but when one suggests that these problems require a more robust approach, posters push drugs......

However, I don't want to discourage anyone from the appropriate use of drugs recommended by a skilled, trusted practitioner. They can be very helpful-when used in the right setting.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 5, 2019 - 06:44pm PT
Brandon, I tried calling you tonite, but I imagine that it was quite late your time, so got your machine (or alternatively, you were talking to someone else!). Anyway, wanted you to know that I've reached out. I'll call again.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Jan 5, 2019 - 09:15pm PT
Ken I agree with most of that. And I don’t claim to know the accurate drug names either. Also in nearly all other cases I tend to steer far away from the med approach ie. anti depresants , benzos and others that often just compound the problem. I believe Naloxone or its relatives are the exception. It just seems to block and over power the problem drug, alchohol and opiates. And the shot lasts a month. I’ve see it work.

Cheers
Go Brandon
Ben Harland

Gym climber
Kenora, ON
Jan 5, 2019 - 10:07pm PT
God damn, I love when Ken M pops up on a thread.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 6, 2019 - 02:29am PT
hey there say, Brandon_ ... i will also call sometime, next week...

just to see if i might have anything to share, that may help...

:)


yes-- keep checking in here...

you need 'signs' along the trail... keeps the mind-set,
as to where one is going... :)

you know-- then-- no side trail-wanderings, or, less temptations...

:)
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 6, 2019 - 07:44am PT
Q. What's the worst part about knott drinking?

A. When you wake up in the morning, that's as good as you're going to feel all day!

This is SOOO true!

I usually "only" have 2 or 3 beers a day, and rarely have any spirits, other than the occasional homemade bloody mary. In late Nov I decided to try knott drinking during the week, in order to give my body a break and to help get back in shape. What was completely unexpected was how amazingly better I felt after 3 days! I didn't want that feeling to go away by having a beer, so I "kept going", so to speak. Rediscovering herbal tea has been great!

An unexpected, remarkable benefit of knott drinking: A couple months ago I got an MRI on my ankle, and was told the only way I could do long hikes or any running without pain / inflammation would be to get it fused together with pins or an outright ankle replacement. It was getting to the point to where it was stiff and hurt just getting out of bed, and I was getting depressed, thinking I'd have to get the operation sooner rather than later just to function normally. After one week of knott drinking all soreness went away! I even did a fast-paced 7.4 mile hike to the top of Mt Tam and back and forgot to wear my ankle brace. Was not sore afterward! This is nothing short of miraculous. Also some forearm tendonitis completely went way.

I feel lucky in that I don't consider myself an alcoholic. But I do crave beer every day when I drink regularly, sometimes as early in the day as late morning (that's scary). So it is psychologically addictive at least. It was hard for me to commit to taking even a short break from my modest drinking, even after prompting from girlfriend who is an MD and who does knott drink during the week. I do understand addiction quite well, as I smoked 2 packs of cigs a day for decades, finally quitting cold turkey--and for good without a doubt--on Memorial Day 1998 (I had smoking dreams for years afterward).

One thing that struck me about sobriety meetings is that a lot of people chain smoke cigs and wolf down donuts and coffee during breaks. I think nicotine is profoundly more addictive than alcohol; I have met people who quit heroin but couldn't shake cigarettes. Scary and sobering, pun very much intended. Best wishes to all who have posted to this thread. My positive thoughts are with you.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 6, 2019 - 09:13am PT
True, about the sugar substitution. I'm guilty of that, although I wouldn't say I "wolf down" the stuff. But one night, when I was considering going "no sugar," to see if it was really as toxic as non-sugar people tell me, and to see if I could better my life through the change, I heard a little voice in my head. A sad little lonely me.... say in a pining tone, "But that's my friend."

I tend to have some little snack while in bed at night doing reading, before going to sleep(being on a sunlight schedule, once it goes down, my day begins to wind down too, so in bed with a book and a headlamp is like someone else watching tv for an hour or so). Sometimes the snack is a sweet, and sometimes a salty one. In the past year I've found I don't seem to "need" it like I used to, and go without quite a bit. But I never forgot that feeling of losing my good and loyal "friend," sad as that may seem to those who can't imagine what I am talking about.

The thing about a sugar addiction - it may damage our own health, but we're unlikely to kill someone else because we were driving on a sugar binge, and we're unlikely to screw up showing up for family, work, other commitments because of it.

Progress, not perfection.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 6, 2019 - 09:56am PT
I've used chromium picolinate in the past with good results - you might want to try it:

https://jennpike.com/knock-your-sugar-cravings-out-with-chromium/

My point about sugar / cigs is that I think it's best to cut out everything at once so you can experience what an unencumbered body feels like. Hell yeah, it's hard. I can't imagine a hell worse than nicotine withdrawal. But these days they have patches and whatnot. The real trick is STAYING OFF. It took me a full year before I felt I had beaten cigs for good. Reminds me of another line:

"Quitting smoking is the easiest thing is the world, I've done it a hundred times"...

I "quit" many many times! But even during those brief periods I felt it was MUCH easier if I stopped coffee at the same time. I would say the same for sugar. It's gonna be hell no matter what. Just remember, the mind is strong - flesh is dumb. I am in control of my body; I will knott succumb to wanton, mindless cravings of the flesh!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 6, 2019 - 10:03am PT
Oh, my internal reaction to your suggestion! Hahah - all I'll say is "you have to want it" and I guess.... I guess what I want is my little sugar friend more.
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Jan 6, 2019 - 12:37pm PT
Getting clean becomes a matter of life and death, at some point. I got sober when it was pretty much AA and that's it besides chemical detox. I'm grateful for my luck, and the way I learned how TO live through AA. But I sure don't want to be preachy to someone standing on the precipice.

Wildly good thoughts Happie. So praying and routing for you Brandon. This is a lot of information directed at you dude and you have to just give it your all.

Caylor

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 7, 2019 - 08:42pm PT
Sobrieties been a real bitch thus far, but the phone calls have helped SO much. Keep ‘em coming, any hour of the day. My wife is actually sleeping next to me right now, sweet!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 8, 2019 - 08:07am PT
New development. My first ever roommate, Aaron in Steamboat has been a friend over the past twenty years since we first met. He learned about what’s going on and coincidentally, has been through the same sh#t. He lives in the twin cities and is pulling strings to get me into a forty day inpatient facility He makes really good money, so that helps. Never thought I’d be at this place in my life, but it seems like the right thing. Plus, my wife is moving out so I can be out of her beautiful hair as she does so. Life is so f*#king bittersweet sometimes.
dutch, who?

Trad climber
212, celsius
Jan 8, 2019 - 11:41am PT
bran dawn, i suck at sobrity.
i'm even horrible at spelling it.

i join you in struggle, brother.
i often breath foul breath; smells like backyard funk.
you know, when you tip the tallboy to yon lips?

i f*#king hate it. the conundrum.
becuase american reality sucks ass.
no offense to the asse its merely the messenger of foul gas and other shite....

yea, sobriety is horrible is some aspects. am i wrong?
because then you gotta embrace excess and try to pretend that excess is really necessity, and in doing so you shove other venerable organisms (humans, trees, fish, etc) into suppression as you pursue your own personal spoils.)
so we lean to the mean medium and for a short spell
our mind is at ease. it can handle the krooked religions.

my mind is your mind, bran dawn.
i'm dutch. you are ever becoming who you are.

let me cut the poetry with a f*#king knife and share
with you how i've murdered my broke down mind.

skateboarding.

yes. that's right. skateboarding derailed my own personal trainwreck.

how? it's like this:

when i was just climbing and engineering and cutting trees, i drank. because i was safe in my comfort zone. it became boring. so i sought out accomplices to reality. which came in the form of 24 oz. coors.

i almost died. several times. for real, i almost died.

like free soloing 5.10 loose on a gray day. cold. slimy. but boosted by booze. or several other completey horrible circumstances that my booze affinity afforded me (i'm not a f*#king cat but i've been rocketing toward earth with nothing between me and death except, one small interruption (my life.) paul crawford can totally substantiate my story.

so the gist of my post is this: i've been dissatisfied with reality.
i've utilized booze to skew said poison. i've over-employed alcohol nearly unto my personal demise. i stayed in my sick state for years. i've children. and a wife. i could not escape.

SOUL YOU KNOW WHAT I F*#KING DID? I STARTED SKATEBOARDING. WHICH IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. I COULD NOT SKATE F*#KED UP. I COULD NOT SKATE IF I'D DRINKIN' IN THE LAST WEEK. SO I STOPPED DRINKING. BECAUSE, IN NOT DRINKING, I CAN SKATE. and i love skating because it substantiates my imposed stride upon this landscape.

so my advice to you (please try AA and other communal resources available) is to find a pastime - and it must be passionate, that demands of you more than you can author as a drunk.

love,
many.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2019 - 03:07pm PT
Brandon,

Hoping the inpatient thing can be a go. It's a great way to get sober sea legs in a safer environment than our usual habitat.

It never occurred to me to use an inpatient, and my early sobriety went really easily. But after I had a fair number of days sober(probably less than a month, but in those first days it's just SO intense, and one day to the next feels like an epic saga), I remember this woman was sharing and referred to the inpatient place she was in.

I was jealous! I even thought "Dang, If I slip, THEN I can go to a treatment place!

I'm sorry that your wife has chosen to move out, but what can you do. Nobody knows what the future will bring.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 8, 2019 - 03:59pm PT
I am super stoked that I quit drinking 12 years ago. I am a much healthier person physically and emotionally than I was when I was drinking. Super easy for me now. I have no desire to feel like sh#t.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 10, 2019 - 01:43pm PT
Looks like I’m getting admitted to this 30 day program in Minneapolis tonight. God, I need this.
John M

climber
Jan 10, 2019 - 02:19pm PT
Brandon, Thats great news!

I hope that you have an opportunity while you are in this program to get some counseling. While I disagree with Ken on the terms used to identify people with alcohol problems.. ( I don't like when people identify themselves as an alcoholic. I believe that leads to them holding on to the problem ) I do agree with him that there is more then one root issue with alcoholism. There is the physical habit/addiction and there is the psychological issue. To get completely free from those issues you need time away from alcohol AND you need to delve into why you abuse alcohol. What do you believe alcohol gives you that you can't get any other way? There are a whole host of questions that you need to answer and a good counselor can help guide you. Just remember that you have to come up with the answers. A counselor can help guide you, but they can not ultimately root those answers in you. You have to do that. So I hope that you get counseling and I hope that you do the work. Because bro.. it is work. Its not easy to dig deep into ones own psychology.

One thing that you should be aware of is that this type programs is just the first step. Its a huge step and can really propel you on your way towards being free from any issues with alcohol. but you need to be aware that there are layers to becoming free from being dependent on alcohol. Often people need to get more counseling once they are through a program. It took me about 3 years to be completely free from any issue with alcohol.

I wish you the best on your journey and please check in with us when you can. That doesn't mean breaking the rules while you are in the program. smiling here. It just means that we want to hear from you when its okay.

All the best,
John
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 10, 2019 - 04:12pm PT
I’m very uncomfortable writing this, but my buddy is going to set up a go fund me account for my recovery. Even with a scholarship it’s still $3900. My bank accoount is at like $200 and my barista wife has to cover all the bills. Not sure how thats going to work. Thinking about selling plasma. I’ll post a link when he gets it going. I feel like such a f*#king mooch but I dont know what else to do. My dad is poor, and I help support my mom and grandma as it is so borrowing money from family is out of the question. Wifes family is poor as well.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 10, 2019 - 06:05pm PT
I'm sure people will help, even if it's at a very small amount, which will likely be my donation at this time of year.

This last few days has been challenging for me. Without going into details, just want to say how emotionally exhausted I feel. Had a flat tire the other day, and it just took me down. Such a small thing, really, but it's kind of like my emotional battery is easily drained by certain things, which is where I'm at right now, and then even small things can make me just want to curl up and cry.

I'm very lucky that I somehow am one of those lucky ones who really doesn't consider drinking as a way to escape when I feel this way. But I do have to apologize to a lady at the local dog run. Her damned dog was growling at Lucas when we tried to get in and .... while it's true that she could have behaved better, and the meltdown I had was more like *crazy lady* than aimed at her, I know I have to fix my end of that.

Hoping that the issue that has me so emotionally vulnerable right now will pass soon.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 10, 2019 - 06:22pm PT
Just saw this. I’ll be pulling for you. You know you can do this.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 11, 2019 - 04:41am PT
Heading in to the facility in a few. No internet allowed there so I’ll see you all on the other side!
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 11, 2019 - 05:11am PT
hey there say, Brandon... couldn't sleep ...

am suddenly have a small problem of my own... (my ear ) ...

so i am up...


best wishes and prayers...
we are all rooting for you...

and, we have had our really poor times and folks having to help us...
i lived my whole married life that way, and us all and the kids,
got by...

so i understand your situation...
i'm finally able to 'float' some, now, more than then...
so NEVER be ashamed to LET a friend help...

we will all try...
:)


the bigger shame is never caring to even try...
:)

the best HONOR, too, that a real friend can have, is:

to be ABLE to help...
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 11, 2019 - 05:34am PT
for their sake[]hope you read-chemical intervention too Dutch-pleez++
TwistedCrank

climber
Released into general population, Idaho
Jan 11, 2019 - 08:10am PT
We're all rooting for you, Brandon! It works if you work it.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 11, 2019 - 08:14am PT
See you the flip side, good luck!
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Jan 11, 2019 - 12:42pm PT
what a buddy! you're both going to be enjoying a whole new brand of riches
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 11, 2019 - 01:44pm PT
Thanks Aaron. Looking forward to hearing from you in this thread!
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 11, 2019 - 04:47pm PT
hey there say, all...


got a call from brandon... here is where he will be...

HE WANTED THIS TO BE PUT HERE FOR YOU ALL:


so now-- he on his way...
:)

delete by request of his dear friend aaron...
:)


EDIT:
(just so folks can follow clear, what the delete was all about
i left this stuff in)


wow,
Aaron -- just saw your post...
thank you for the share and bearing your heart...

*Brandon_ just call a few hours ago, and shared that
he wanted the address here, so, hope that
has not affected anything, as to you...

thank you for all you are doing... yes-- friend DO best, being
and having, friends!!!
Jim Clipper

climber
Jan 11, 2019 - 05:27pm PT
Great to see the support. Very impressed by Brandon's friends. Best wishes.
WBraun

climber
Jan 11, 2019 - 08:15pm PT
Thanks, Aaron

Where's the Go fund me?
WBraun

climber
Jan 11, 2019 - 09:01pm PT
Sorry ...

I'm looking for the link to help you Aaron since you only have a few dollars to your name and have kids.

I can send you a few dollars more?
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 11, 2019 - 09:54pm PT
hey there, say, oh yes, dear aaron... i sure well, yes, i sure will...

in wanting to him, of course, i did what he had asked...
so, rest assured, here i go to delete, upon your
important request... :)
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 11, 2019 - 10:04pm PT
hey there say, dear aaron... oh my... of course not-- you have not offended me... we do what we do for friends...

and, of course, i only went by his request-- and thus,
going by yours now...

>:D<


i am not one to take 'offences' at things...
i know that there are reasons, when folks ask and make
requests...

rest assured, too, that all is well...

:)

and, as to your quote below:
oh my no-- your are not being 'too over-bearin' at all
you KNOW best, as you are 'first hand' on the
front line... of the battle field...


I apologize for being a hard ass right now - but the last 3 days took a huge toll on me - I am in a major decompression stage and Brandon will not be thinking clearly for 1-2 weeks as his brain adjusts to being alcohol free.

I will post more later, but please edit that post and get that address off there.


i will also private message and share my
respect for you, there, too...

thank you so much, for being very kind, in your
ways to share all this...
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jan 11, 2019 - 10:04pm PT

just caught this thing, definitely rooting for you Brandon- !



as usual, the weege put it right:
love,
many.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Jan 11, 2019 - 11:46pm PT
best of luck to Brandon
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 12, 2019 - 05:25am PT
Now, THIS takes me back to memories of beginner sobriety drama...hahaha.

I will definitely contribute to the fund, but can not until next week as one needs funds to give funds.

Aaron, in NYC AA they strongly emphasized that one should not do 12 Step work alone. Glad you do have a sponsor on board but yeah, I can imagine the boot marks on yer butt.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 12, 2019 - 05:51am PT
Addicts/Brandon

dig deep, Find the strength

be strong-You are important

Find Serenity, know you are loved'

be all in, know too that We Care

CLIMBER; You got this

Got Gear in; You are On-Belay.

The Leader Must Not Fall

 we are all praying for you





Brave Cowboy Why did you feel the need to out a BruthA?

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 12, 2019 - 08:31am PT
I wasn't trying to chastise you; sorry if you felt that way.

The story just reminded me of one particular 12th Step I participated in. Will tell here, not for your reading solely but for all of us.

But....I'm on my cell phone and more than shorty posts are problematic so...will add the story when on my laptop.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 12, 2019 - 12:40pm PT
Okay - On the laptop.

So, I was probably somewhere in my first year of sobriety, maybe up to two years sober, when this young woman shares she is new to AA during that portion of the meeting.

She gives enough information to know that she is going cold turkey and *concerned* because she can't seem to stop shaking. As I was sitting nearby, I looked over and got a jolt of reality. My thought was "She is in physical withdrawal and in trouble." Pretty much anyone who was aware probably thought the same, and as soon as the meeting ended, I was one of a dozen women making a beeline to her.

She was playing it down. "I'm okay; I was overreacting."

Someone laid it out clearly: "Your body is detoxing, and you could die." Though it was said in a bit less blunt wording. "Would you like to go to the hospital? We can help you to get there." Several of us, me being one, shook our heads in agreement. "You've taken the first step. Let us help you with this."

She starts saying why she can't go to the hospital. It's becoming clear she is getting freaked out and ready to bolt. So someone suggests "Maybe your just hungry. We're going to the diner. Want to come along?"

That took a little more cajoling. She had the idea something was up. But someone made some comment about loneliness in new sobriety or something and that got her walking with us. She said she wanted to get something from her apartment and....we all went with her. She was in B.A.D shape. In her apartment we went into serious 12th Step action. Being friendly and compassionate, but telling her the truth - that if she went into convulsions, we might net BE able to get her to the hospital in time.

She still had every reason/excuse she couldn't go to the hospital. Work family obligations, no insurance.... on and on.

It was at this point where I had a visceral feeling - that THIS was a very good example as to why we don't 12th Step alone. The AA slogan is "They'll get you drunk a lot faster than you can get them sober." But what I felt in that moment was so much more frightening.

I felt like the disease in her alcoholism was like a cornered and injured wild animal. It had been warning us away, and we weren't getting it. I really could almost say I "saw" a vicious lion getting ready to rip at me with its claws. It was terrifying.

Because we had several women, 5 I think, we were able to take turns talking this woman through her process. It really looked, at times, like this was going to be one we would have to walk away from. She WAS starting to get verbally combative.

I don't know what it was that got us through, but there came a point where she just gave up and agreed to go to the hospital. She was visibly shaking all over her body, uncontrollably.

Action - someone grabbed a tote bag and some of the clothes laying around her floor. "They'll have toiletries at the hospital, or we can bring you what you need(We had already given her our phone numbers after the meeting)." We knew we had to get her out that door and in a taxi before the window of time we had was closed.

As we left the lobby, she said to the doorman "These women are taking me to the hospital. I'm an alcoholic and I need help."

I will never forget the look in his eyes. He probably saw her in dire straits for a long time. The doormen see a lot, and they clean up our puke, get rid of the "guest" who is taking us home with the intent of - well, you can imagine, get us into the right apartment, calm us from our hysterics that are waking up other residents - and who knows what else. They need their jobs, and are unlikely to tell us in a sober moment what we did last night. Especially if they've already lost a job because they cared enough to try and the alcoholic got their revenge. Yet we often view them almost like an inanimate object.

He quietly said "God bless you. Thank you." And "Don't you worry (her name). I'll take care of anything you need here. You just call me if you need me."

Out the door he went and hailed a taxi with the best of NYC doorman authority.

We all piled in, the detoxing woman in back sandwiched between, just in case she decided to bolt at a stop sign. Or slowdown. Or at speed....

That taxi driver knew, I'm sure, and he made quick work of it and got us there and refused the fare. "Good luck" he said, while we were getting out. One of use pressed a twenty into his hands, and said "Thank you!"

The hospital staff saw what was coming, and I'm sure it was not hard for them to figure it out. No doubt they see the scenario play out with some frequency.

The staff was so kind to this woman, and I don't remember much except that the doctor did not shoo us off while he began examining her. I don't know that would be the case these days(this was about 1996-98). He asked the questions, gave his opinion, and offered her treatment option and made it seem like she was getting a day at the spa. She agreed to the help.

At that point, he let us know they would take it from there, and we left.

I don't know what happened to that woman afterward. For all I know, she became one of our regulars. I'm just that bad with remembering faces, and in early sobriety - the first several years - I kind of lived inside a shell within myself.

But I will never forget that awareness that we were dealing with a terrible wildness, this alcoholism, when its host was fighting back, and only one of them - alcoholic or alcoholism - was going to live in the end.







Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Jan 12, 2019 - 12:52pm PT
Aaron, in NYC AA they strongly emphasized that one should not do 12 Step work alone.

Here on the Western Slope, CO, my homegroup that I chair is totally split on 12the step alone or with at least one other person. We actually had a topic and ended up going over an hour on that point alone!

Hank
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 13, 2019 - 12:49am PT
That's sure a story, but as the Big Book says - cunning, baffling, powerful. I got a chuckle out your guys saying it was a wired looking liquor store just before realizing...

neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 13, 2019 - 05:55am PT
hey there, say, aaron...

as to this quote:

Anyways. Didn't hear from Brandon today, I am heading to the AA alumni meeting right after work as Sunday's are visiting hours until 5pm and have another friend there currently and will catch last hour of visiting time after I work tomorrow. I'll report back and was invited by the staff to stay for dinner with them and visit as the meeting starts at 7pm and I should be there by 4pm or so.

Personally, I'll never do a 12 step solo again, I think it's always best to have backup, even in Brandon's case I should of reached out more and knew a meeting I could of grabbed someone at looking back at it now, but that night was just chaos and I was just trying to do the next right thing. Hindsight is 20/20.

Thanks everyone for letting me share, and thanks for those that have contributed. The balls in Brandons court - it'll be awesome to go back each week and see him and the changes that occur :)

say, thanks for the updates... :)

will try to call you, sunday eve...
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 15, 2019 - 05:23am PT
I'll be donating this afternoon when I get on the laptop. Vel phone too difficult for me to manage.

I'll also make a separate ST thread for the GFM page as I'm sure there are Supdrtopina who want to support Brandon but may not read this thread to know about it. If some other Stian wants to do that before I can, please do. That's not for Aaron to do as it must be a known ST user for validity sake.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Jan 15, 2019 - 09:29am PT
Ah, good luck Aaron, it's a tough road. I made three different heroic efforts getting BVB into rehab, and none of them were his last go round. Its tough with an addict, the wind only blows one direction, and its all suck and no blow. I suspect your sponsor is giving you the hard advice that comes from experience. We all want the ones we love to come around, become those people we remember and hold dear in our hearts, but ultimately its not up to you and me. You obviously care greatly about Aaron, but don't neglect the self care too.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 15, 2019 - 07:14pm PT
hey there say, aaron... am trying to help a bit, donate, but
can't until the end of the month...

got a card and letter ready... too...
Gilroy

Social climber
Bolderado
Jan 16, 2019 - 11:29am PT
I follow this thread because it doesn't get more real than this on the Supertopo. I am not the sober type but really am inspired by the grit and honesty shown here.

A little background music for the discussion...

https://www.gq.com/story/clean-musicians
Zoltani

Trad climber
LV, NV
Jan 16, 2019 - 12:37pm PT
I have followed this thread for the raw emotion and vulnerability found within. While I could recognize myself in some of the posts, I still convinced myself that I didn't have a problem. I am still not sure I am an alcoholic, but I decided to take a break and it has been about 10 days since my last drink. That's probably the longest I have gone without one in a very long time. Once I decided to take a break I didn't have any problems, no withdrawal symptoms or anything. This feels good and I think I will stick with it for awhile. Told myself I'd quit for 30 days for health benefits and to prove to myself I can do it, but at this moment I am thinking I might try to keep it up.

I haven't been active on ST in a long time, used to have a different username that I lost. I created this one to let everyone in this thread know how much you have inspired me and I wish you all the best in your journey. I donated to Brandon and hope it works out for him.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 16, 2019 - 04:30pm PT
Update: Just checked the GoFundMe pages and it is halfway to the goal. This is due in part to someone who has been quite generous, although everything is relative. That generosity may have been less a sacrifice for that person than someone else who donated $20. Nonetheless, HalfTime Celebration!

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 17, 2019 - 06:32am PT
Had a Drunk Dream last night and like any good nightmare, once you're awake and safe, it was a good one.

It had it all: the popular boy from grade school mesmerizing me with his cool(but he was leading an AA meeting and drunk, not to the point it was obvious but that *fun part* where you're just sparkling...)

An old boyfriend acting out in the meeting with the group hottie, time travel back to an old west mining town(and my dreantine wardrobe consultant spared no expense!), Disneyland and, apparently Disney himself. He was dressed a little like the Monopoly logo guy.

And a cameo appearance by Shame.

I don't have them often but its always a wonderful thing to wake up and realize in have NOT been drinking and lying the who time I've been sober.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Jan 17, 2019 - 07:30am PT
Aaron Tritz: I may be incorrect [CG Jung] was an original founder of AA, but I do believe he contributed to AA in the early beginnings, . . .


I had never heard this before, but there appears to be some truth in the claim, although in a peripheral and advisory role. Bill W. said he had been informed by Jung’s advice to an alcoholic Jung had treated many years previously. It was Bill Wilson’s view that Jung had contributed in a major way to the need for a “religious conversion” in AA methodology. I think that Jung had said he had no direct contact with the founders of AA.

As for dream interpretations, Jung’s the guy to read. If you read his academic writings, you can get a gist of what he’s referring to analytically. If you read his more poetic writings on the subject of the influence of the unconsciousness (individual and collective), you’ll need more than a scientific view of the world and being.

Thanks for the insight. I have ex-alcoholics in my extended family of in-laws. They are almost militant, but with a lot of humor (if that makes any sense).

Be well, and good luck.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 17, 2019 - 04:14pm PT
How long have you been sober?
I got sober August 26th of 1996, so 22 years and change since my last drink.

I didn't have any drunk dreams for several months. Can't remember when the first one came - probably at some point in my first year. I've had one or two a year, I'd say. They often have me having been saying I was sober the whole time and coming to a realization that was in fact not true and I had been drinking all along(on occasion).

It's always a relief, waking up and knowing it was just a dream.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 21, 2019 - 03:56pm PT
I have had a few drunk dreams. sometimes in the dream I am just having a few beers because that doesn't really count, then I realize that I have actually been having a lot of a few beers every day and that it probably does count.... then I wake up and am like holy sh#t that was freaky but good thing it was just a dream... just read this on TGRhttps://www.tetongravity.com/feature/adventyre/caught-inside-cory-richards?fbclid=IwAR1VQfrd_LMO00zhvTO_v2-kQSOwj4CGOJ8FtfLe8J6swX044JzK9VnXnPI
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Jan 21, 2019 - 04:32pm PT
Once in awhile, like not very often but I'll have the "F*#KBALLS I drank last night and threw away everybody and everything!!!!!" but then wake up, reach over and feel the wife and 2 Pugs sleeping soundly. Like heaven.

Similar to the "I'm back in the US Army bootcamp dream/nightmare'..

Caylor!
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 21, 2019 - 06:10pm PT
I would like to remind folks that getting off the booze/drugs, while an essential first step, and one we must guard against EVER returning to, forever, is really the start of it all. Most of us had our version of an alcoholic personality - which comes in many flavors - that was causing much of the havoc and torment in the first place. Addressing this is a life's work, done one day at a time. At some point, and it took me a good long while, you'll come to actually thank your seemingly bad luck at being an alcoholic because it's starts a process that, without the torment, you'd likely never have started the recovery process, and would never have felt yourself transforming in ways that I, for one, would have thought impossible. And I mean totally impossible.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 21, 2019 - 06:57pm PT
Interesting... fortunately I've been blessed and never had a problem with booze or drugs but I still have drunk/drug dreams on occasion. I remember one vividly of taking lsd.... freaked me out... woke up feeling totally bizarre. And I've never taken it for real.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 28, 2019 - 08:26am PT
I just got an email alert from the GoFundMe page for Brandon. Since some here may not see it, I will quote:
Brandon likes making things difficult for himself and doesn’t listen when I just gave him the opportunity of a lifetime to change his life - he’s done nothing but show us all how much of a child he can be.

Sad, he stands no chance as he promised me he’ll do 6 months sober living after his 30 days - but wants to return immediately home because “he figured it all out”

He’s so sick, his behavior so childish.

My hope is fading fast - he’s going to lose everything - including his life.

Only reason to donate is so I can give to someone to start over. Otherwise getting ready to shut this down and give up on him - he’s earned it
Help spread the word!

I'm probably misreading the intent, when Aaron posted that "Only reason to donate is so I can give to someone to start over.," but I thought he might be considering giving donated monies to someone/thing besides what he originally detailed. I just want to make sure I am wrong.... Because I did NOT donate my small but not small to me amount to be used at the discretion of the administrator of that page.

So "Brandon has figured it out." Who among us who's been in an AA meeting hasn't seen that attitude out of any number of newly sober people? It should be having ZERO impact on the GoFundMe page. There should be NO STRINGS ATTACHED when a person gives a gift. Anyone with any sense of what alcoholism is knew/knows that there are no guarantees. And just because Aaron has his opinion, that's just what it is. The opinion of a first year in sobriety person.

Will Brandon slip within days upon leaving the center? May be. May be not. I do agree that the 6 month sober house would be a SMART way to proceed, and I hope Aaron will show Brandon this comment, along with all others made in this thread and the related ones.

So - Brandon - PLEASE reconsider your exit strategy. Six months in a god-forsaken cold Minnesota in a sober house is a much better option than a return to the past. The past will still be there in six months, and I dare say it will be there for the rest of your life. I challenge you to stay the course with the sober house. Please take me up on that challenge! Chalkbag of your choice from my offerings once you get through with that(I know, it's not a high value carrot, but when I think of how I use the money earned on a sale of one, it's often for food, gas to get to the next town on my travels and/or dog foods for Lucas. It's not "nothing" for me to give one away.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 28, 2019 - 08:40am PT
As for my own sober living - I had a fake scare the other day on something that will remain untold, and have to say I believe I MAY be making progress with my emotions.

At first I went to my usual place, which is not a good head space to be in. But almost immediately I stopped the thoughts and said the mantra I learned from an old sponsor years ago: "Do I have what I need right now?"

For sure I didn't deal with my "scare" in the best of ways. I procrasinated on facing it, thus allowing me to believe something bad was about to go down for the two days it took me to face the fear and find out that it was not as I expected.

Instead of having a big relief that I had tortured myself for naught, I was able to remind myself that I stayed focused on the present and didn't burn down my emotional battery like I have in the past. And I got a hint of the next step, which is to meet my challenges when they occur instead of hiding from them and fearing for the worst. I'm sure that will take plenty more opportunities to do, because even the thought of that gets me thinking of scurrying to my inner safe cave.

I also didn't drink.... but as I have said so many times - I'm very, very lucky in that I am one of those for whom "to drink" has been lifted. That doesn't mean I WON'T drink some day. I know that could happen at any time. But on this side of that possibility, I know just how fortunate I am to not have drink signals when the road gets bumpy.

John M

climber
Jan 29, 2019 - 04:04am PT
Hey Aaron.. Thanks for what you have done for Brandon. I'm sorry that it has been such a challenge. A lot of us have been there, so we know what it can be like. Hopefully Brandon continues to seek the help that he needs to heal himself and his life.

As for Deleting your account. It depends on what you mean. There are at least 4 ways to deal with the Taco Stand.

1. If you want total annihilation, which means all of your posts will be deleted and your account erased, then you use the contact info at the bottom of the page. It takes time as the owners of the forum are outdoor enthusiast like most of us and so aren't always around. Sometimes as much as 2 weeks. I would counsel you to think about that because it sort of leaves a hole in the forum where conversations look strange as it appears people aren't talking to anyone. But people do do it and if that is what you want, then it can and will happen. It just takes time. This process is not reversible. You would need to create an entirely new account with a new email if you want to respond to anything that Brandon may say in the future. What you do is go to the bottom of the page and find the contact like for this forum. click that and tell them that you want to be completely removed. They may ask you why, so it helps if you explain.

2. If you don't mind your stuff staying up, but want to not have access to your account so that you won't be tempted to waste time here, then contact the admin and ask them to deactivate your account. You won't have access to posting, but what you have posted so far will not be deleted. This is reversible, though that too takes time.

3. If all that you want is for what you have posted to be gone, then You have 10 days to delete what you have posted. Below each post you make is an edit button. Click on that. Your post will come up and you can either edit it, or below the box of your post is a button to delete your post. Just click that if you want it will be completely gone.

4. If you don't want to wait for the admin, and you don't care if your posts stay up, but you want to block yourself from access, then you change your password to something that you won't be able to remember. What you do is write a long mixed up password. Something that you couldn't remember unless you had it written down or had a photographic memory. Change the password on the forum and then tear up the paper. This is reversible by talking to the admin and telling them that you forgot your password. Then sign out of your account and you won't be able to log back in. The way that you accomplish this is to go to the top of the page and in the right hand corner is "my settings" click on that and you can change your password. Once done there, then click on sign out.

I hope that helps and Best wishes!

SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, Bozeman, the ocean, or ?
Jan 29, 2019 - 05:05am PT
I’m not feeling very confident about Aaron’s “rest assured” ... “savings account” etc.
I donated for BRANDON!

This leaves me with a very sour taste about future requests for go fund me.

I just don’t know what’s really going on. Is this whole thing a scam?

Feeling like I might have been used,

Susan

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 29, 2019 - 06:06am PT
Delete or leave what has been posted for continuity.
The read will be severely changed if you take your posts away.

-The thing is that you can do whatever you feel is right for your situation.

by deleting your account you won't have built anything or have to worry about it being easily found & used against you in some way.
(my wife says everything is can be found.?)

I think what you attempted was heroic -period-
& the attempt is a thing to be proud of.
Being there, trying to help Brandon; was worth a try.


[{Deleted The Writing. It was from the heart, I'm past 50 now, certainly given wine by the time I was 7yrs old. What I wrote was directed at & for the 3 people who needed to read it. The thoughts came from my vast experience with substance use, -abuse- failed recovery & -sobriety. It was not meant to be taken as gospel. It was not for the non-sympathetic}] . ]


Aaron, you are a stand-up guy, A very rare mix, one who is welcome here. It is no more Brandon's place than it is your place. That no BJ BS or any of the other trolls had shjt here till now, says a lot about your valiant attempt. (Sad to say - They were overdue)
I hope good things for you.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 29, 2019 - 06:50am PT
This all makes complete sense to me, and I do apologize if, after reading the update where Aaron posted monies would go to "someone else," I sounded an alarm. I was concerned that the fee for Brandon's rehab might not be paid, and in my not always rational mind imagined there might be some other client at the rehab that would be funded, instead of monies going to B's wife as was originally stated. I had no problem assuming Aaron would be reimbursed for the costs he incurred, as of course he should be.

I hope that down the road, all parties will be able to say this all worked out just fine, despite the bumpy ride.

I strongly encourage Aaron to leave his posts in place. Yes, Brandon will likely read them, and that is as it should be. How Brandon feels about what he reads is none of our business.

Thank you, Aaron, for taking the time to clarify this.

I will be donating again today. Sure, I hope Brandon does the sober house, but it seems to me that B's wife can use any funds disbursed to her as well. If B does the sober house, I would likely donate as I can to continue the 1/2 to B and 1/2 to B's wife during this transition.
Jim Clipper

climber
Jan 29, 2019 - 06:53am PT
Aaron, I think I can speak for a number of people here, although I've met very, very few. You are a stand up guy, working to do the right thing.

For what it's worth, I don't think anyone will ever, or was ever trolling you. Ask some questions about rapping El Cap, and you might be entertained. That or you may develop a thicker skin.

Seriously, some folks here are very generous with their time, and even tyeir material resources. Seems pretty certain you aren't a Nigerian prince. If interested, search the forum for "fundraiser".

Maybe, some of the folks here have cleaned up, but underneath, they'really still dirty hippies, dreaming about living in the dirt of a ditch.


Give your kids a hug, tell them ski fastrip and take chances.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, Bozeman, the ocean, or ?
Jan 29, 2019 - 07:11am PT
Thank you, Aaron, for taking the time to clarify this.

Thank you Aaron... I’m feeling better now. I know Happie personally and trust she has a greater understanding of everything that is happening than I do.
When dealing over the net with folks I don’t know, and knowing there have been situations where there have been scams it raises red flags. Also some posts you did on FB on Brandon’s page raised some red flags for me.

Thank you for the clarifications and I do appreciate all you’re doing. Thank you for indulging an inaccurate skeptic! No need for receipts or refunds. I just want to see Brandon get well.

All the best,

Susan
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Jan 29, 2019 - 07:20am PT
A short "small town sobriety story".

So! My wife and I bought a crazy house on the Western Slope of Colorado, Glenwood Springs about 18 months ago. Far away from Boulder/Eldo/Golden where we'd been for many years. There's tons of meetings in Boulder and Golden and nearly a constant social stimulus to keep an alcoholic occupied. The old AA saying goes something like "you only need 2 alcoholics and a resentment to start a new group", well the Front Range has a shitload of that.

Here on the Western Slope there's sooooo many fewer meetings weekly and the distances can be disconcerting as the population is tiny comparatively. It's been really hard for me to stay spiritually fit and focused, I've been really good, progress not perfection, but not fully able to get 90 days and 6 months to click together like I did back in Boulder..

However, in the last 6-8 months a new homegroup was started right in my town, walking distance from my house that I now chair as my service position. As well, a brand new beginners meeting has blossomed over the last 2 months that's also quite close to my house. It started with 4 people, 4 people(none beginners except sort of me), then 5 people, then 7 people, 11 people. This is when I ordered a pile of chips just in case any newcomers actually ever showed. But the meeting's blossomed and we gave away 3 24hr chips last week, lots of tears and laughs. Living in a town of less than 5,000 people can seem like a curse if you let it, but it's really blossomed for me, which is the most important thing right? ME? Just kidding.

Keep fighting the good fight folks and please keep posting here, it's like a virtual meeting?. Live hard, pray harder!

Caylor
John M

climber
Jan 29, 2019 - 10:49am PT
Thats a great story Caylor. Thanks for sharing that!

Aaron.. I don't know what to advise you. As you have experienced, there are some really good people here, but its can also be fairly wild and woolly. The political threads are enter at your own risk. Based on only a 2 hour assessment, I would say that it could be highly risky for you to join the forum as you are still fairly volatile yourself and you are in a situation where you are trying to get your kids back. You have to think of them first. This forum will likely be here for some time. You can always come back with a different ID after things get a bit more stable for you.

If you decide to stay, then understand that this place is like the Hotel California. Youse get beat into the place and if you decide to leave youse get beat out of the place. You haven't been beat in yet, so you can still leave easy peasy, but once beat in, well, you might take a beating if you aren't careful how you leave. I don't mean a physical beating.

An example. The internet is the place where people can let their baser nature rule. That means that the people with a mean streak can be as mean as they want. About the only thing that can happen to them is that they get banned. They might lose a few friends, but the worst of them don't have friends, so they let it rip. We have had people stalked. We have had people threaten physical violence up to including threatening to shoot someone. The cops were called on that one and on one of the stalkers. so it gets nasty. And the craziest part is people that we have climbed with, partied with, surfed with that we think are good people can get on the internet and just go off. We have had more then a few of those too. Some people here like it wilder and looser. They don't want anyone banned. Others would rather not have political threads and other don't like the people who just want to stir up ugliness. I am one of those.

So the history of the forum is that we used to have all out verbal wars about what we called Trolls. Trolls to some means people who like to cause mischief. It can be fun. But it can also be meaner then a rattlesnake and down right ugly. We have had all kinds. In the beginner the worst trolls ran rampant. These were people who just wanted to be mean. There were all kinds of arguments about that and the constant arguing and bicker drove some good people away. In our arguing the forum as a whole decided to get rid of a few trolls. There were still those around who didn't want anyone banned, but they were the minority. So as a group we got rid of some people. Then things morphed and individually we could report trollish people. The mods decide who goes and who stays. Its not always clear about what they base their decisions on and a few people got banned who are highly respected in the climbing world. Thats caused a sore spot or two.

Recently I got someone banned. No one here argues that they didn't bring anything but meanness to the forum, but they are tired of people getting banned and worried that other good people can be narced out. So a thread was started where I was called a Quisling. Quilting was a real guy in ww2 who collaborated with the nazi's. So it means a narc and a traitor. I disagree with the idea that I am a traitor to the forum because i don't see the owner as the enemy. He is one of the tribe. Someone who like the wild and woolly outdoors, but wants a campfire to hang around. The problem is that online its not exactly like a campfire. In person you know who you are dealign with and you can defend yourself . Online its a lot harder. So someone has to enforce the peace. Some people don;t like that.

On that thread calling me a Quisling, I stated my case and in the past if I was attacked, I got a lot of support because the people who wanted a place for all were the majority. This time there was not a lot of support, while at the same time there wasn't a lot of hate. But it was the majority. The forum is going through a period where the good people have slowed down their posting, or left, or in some cases died. We have lost a number of outstanding people who we all still miss. Jeff Lowe, John Bachar, Scott Cosgrove, Jim Bridewell and many others. These people are climbing legends and they all posted here at different times. There is so much climbing history here is mind boggling. There are also some of the original base jumpers and there have been some of the original speed skiers and other crazies. I say that affectionately. There is a story on this forum from the guy who flew the first paraglider over the Sierra Nevada. Its hairball.

But the trolls are constant and seem to be growing. The good people seem to be less and less. The stories have been fewer. There are still good people here. Your proof is how much money was raised in a short time by people many of who never met Brandon. We just heard his stories and liked that he tried to be a good guy and so wanted to support him. We now know a bit more about how far down the rabbit hole he is, but many of us have also been there. My own history is a life time of mental health problems, ( depression and being suicidal ), a history of drug and alcohol abuse, and a lot of physical health problems. One of my passions is the outdoors. I skied, climbed a little, body surfed a lot, ran long distances in the mountains and did long distance swims. These were the things that kept me sane. I joined the forum during a period when my physical health was so bad that I couldn't get out like I wanted to. The forum was a kind of refuge/ connection to the outdoors. So I hung out here a lot. too much probably. My physical health is still poor, but my mental health is getting better. I survived the Taco stand. Thats what we call this place. In baring my soul on this forum I made friends but I also came to the attention of a few creeps. They got my email address and my phone number and sent me all kinds of ugly messages and a few threats. so you have to be prepared mentally for those kinds of things.

Since the thread about me being a Quisling, I have decided to no longer report anyone unless they are singling out someone who needs help and it is an ongoing thing. The consensus on the forum seems to be to allow whatever to go on. If that happens, then this place won't be as friendly as its been. The trolls will rule.

So long story short. I don't know what to tell you. I'm easing off the place. The main thing is to remember that you have your kids to think about. Pop in occasionally and share a tale or two about skiing. We love that kind of thing. But always remember your kids and be careful to not let this place get to you. That can be really difficult to do. So what is more important to you? Your kids or swapping stories? I would say leave your stuff up. I do believe that the only way Brandon really gets well is to face his stuff, and his treatment of you and his wife is part of that. So leaving it up could do good, but at the same time make things difficult for you. Its your call.

Cheers.. John the do gooder. ;-)

Edit: Internet forum history. Too much moderation and a forum becomes stale. too little moderation and a forum dies. There was a climbers forum with no moderation. It died within a year. rumor has it a threatened lawsuit closed it down. I don't know the real reason. Its all about balance. Thats a tricky and difficult thing to achieve.
John M

climber
Jan 29, 2019 - 09:38pm PT
Hey Aaron. Maybe ease up on the rhetoric. Brandon doesn't need this right now. I wrote a post on this thread. This is a support thread. Brandon is in a fragile state of mind right now and doesn't need anyone coming at him head on. This is why the rehab center asked you to not have contact with him. I do appreciate that you care about your friend, but could you possibly dial it back a bit and maybe consider deleting your last post.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/3164155/A-GoFundMe-for-Brandon-OTish

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 29, 2019 - 09:39pm PT
Aaron, grow up. I’ve already told why on the other page.

And slander? Really?

I didn’t read it all yet, but in what I saw, your facts are a little screwy bud. And like I told you earlier tonight, you have absolutely no idea why I left.

So this is why you told me to do damage control on FB just now? Because you’re butthurt that I didn’t want to stay there in sober living and want to talk sh#t about me here?

You know less about me than most of the people on this thread.

I’m sorry for Aarons behavior, as you can tell he has a short temper and a bit of a superiority complex.

If you want to continue discussing this topic, please take it to the other thread. There’s a link acouple of posts above this one.
John M

climber
Jan 29, 2019 - 09:46pm PT
Hey Brandon. Maybe realize that this whole situation kind of blew some of Aaron's circuits. He took some big risks for you jeopardizing his own situation, so maybe you could understand if he is a bit extreme in his feelings. If you read my email to you, then perhaps you could see that same kind of reaction in yourself. Its pretty common from people who are recovering from alcohol abuse. Aaron is doing the best he can for you. Remember that he is less then one year sober. Just as you are doing the best you can to heal your life, so maybe cut each other some slack.

I'm hoping that y'all will give it a bit of a rest, get some sleep and then try to figure this out.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Jan 30, 2019 - 07:41am PT
Aaron, grow up. I’ve already told why on the other page

Pretty much what I wanted to say after his very first post. What a dramatic sh#t show. And see the people on here going back and forth, forth and back, pulled by the strings of both these unfortunate souls. Brandon will make it or he won't. Give him some space to see what he can do.

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeez


edit-beat me to it Brick:) Go Brandon. Go Aaron. Best stay off this soap opera and get to work.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 30, 2019 - 07:54am PT
Okay... While I do love me some drama, and I've been biting my tongue on some fronts, the BEST way forward is for those of us who can control our itchy trigger fingers to stop before we pull the Post trigger. There are people's lives at stake.

But gawd I do kind of feel I might need to get the popcorn out.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 30, 2019 - 07:56am PT
Looks like all of Aaron's posts have disappeared.

As the Taco turns...
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Jan 30, 2019 - 07:58am PT
But gawd I do kind of feel I might need to get the popcorn out.

Why not? You helped cook up a good batch of it after all:)))
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 30, 2019 - 08:01am PT
I'm sober today and thrilled to be.

Yesterday I bought 2 big boxes of wonderful stone slabs being sold by the children of a recently deceased rock hound. One has Petrified Wood, the other Agates, and two small pieces of a stone named "Indian Blanket" which comes from what is now Death Valley NP and thus can no longer be collected. This is an honor, to carry forward with goods collected by a person such as this, as the true American Rock hound of today is very rare indeed. He died, near blind and in his ,90s, in May last year. This was his last go at the Quartzsite rock shows after 40 plus years.

Edit: Ionlyski, I have apologized for my part.

ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Jan 30, 2019 - 08:03am PT
You have a good heart Happy
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, Bozeman, the ocean, or ?
Jan 30, 2019 - 08:12am PT
Up front apologizes for thread drift but...


One has Petrified Wood, the other Agates, and two small pieces of a stone named "Indian Blanket" re

When you’ve crafted them into one of your pieces, please let me know.

Susan
Jim Clipper

climber
Jan 30, 2019 - 08:14am PT
Best wishes to all on their journeys. John M, you're a good dude.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 30, 2019 - 09:33am PT
Susan, I still have the nice Deschutes you liked to work a setting. These new slabs are going to be a while as I am getting "behind" on the new pieces, trying to do a mix of cabs of my own and ones purchased. Staying in Quartzsite this year was a really good choice for me.
John M

climber
Jan 30, 2019 - 10:05am PT
You are welcome Aaron. I'm glad that you are working the steps to get your head screwed back on straight. Best wishes to you and thanks again for doing the best that you could. I believe that getting therapy is one of the best things that you could do and thats what I hope for Brandon. But its his choice to make. We can't make those choices for others.

BJ,, if its not a big deal, then you should be able to ignore it.
John M

climber
Jan 30, 2019 - 10:23am PT
uh.. you are the one who said their situation wasn't a big deal. I thought power crux's toxicity was a big deal. So its kind of different.

To me power crux was a big deal, so I didn't ignore it.

To you Brandon and Aaron's situation isn't a big deal, so why can't you ignore it?
zip

Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
Jan 30, 2019 - 01:21pm PT
You will find all your answers here.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Jan 30, 2019 - 01:30pm PT
Bah, its been a long time since I got rickrolled.

Here's a more mournful drunk song for the soundtrack. [Click to View YouTube Video]
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 30, 2019 - 03:12pm PT
John told Aaron it was a tough crowd. He was forewarned. But I know how it feels to be having people talk smack at your expense.

If Aaron is reading this, he maybe could "understand better" to know that even though this is the Sobriety Thread, there are people who read/post on it that are just regular folks with no dependency issues they're considering addressing, some sober who take issue with the AA program, and some who just talk smack because they can. A mix, and not popluated by only people trying to get/stay sober.

I have cringed though, at some of the personal details (like ".... should have taken video"). That's inappropriate. Full stop. Aaron - keep the focus on yourself. But I would agree with those who have said it is probably for the best you not post here.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jan 30, 2019 - 05:23pm PT
Aaron, don't worry about the haters, I enjoy your writing / musings / whatever you call it. You've got an interesting writing style and take on things. Sounds like you learned a lot from this episode, in the "we learn from our mistakes" way.

Also don't worry about being seen as an interloper on this forum (ST). As far as I can tell from reading it (and posting on it) for many years, the owners of the forum don't have a lot of current interest it other than occasionally ad hoc banning people when they get enough complaints, the whole thing is a bit of a relic from another era, in more ways than one, although there's still some good content.

Bottom line is what John M wrote: it's easy enough for anyone to ignore you and Brandon who isn't interested; if they start complaining, you can bet they're hanging on your every word, it's the old "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."


WBraun

climber
Jan 30, 2019 - 06:47pm PT
Why don't you shut it up now BJ as you're the same as you say Aaron is.

You just can't stop yourself either.

You're a hypocrite .....
John M

climber
Jan 30, 2019 - 07:34pm PT

no good deed goes unpunished.

Thats not what he learned. he learned that you can't force a person to do what they aren't ready to do. You can try, but, it rarely works.

I learned that in a lot harder way.

I laid myself bare on this forum more then a few time. It made a lot of people very uncomfortable. So uncomfortable that some turned mean. But others were stand up and helped me. The experience made me a lot stronger.

over the years I also learned that being afraid of revealing the mess did nothing to help me clean up the mess. In fact it prolonged the mess.

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 30, 2019 - 08:02pm PT
Please guys. Can we just stop trying to figure this all out and let what will be, be? This infighting doesn't help any of us. It just puts distances between us.
D Murph

climber
Jan 30, 2019 - 09:29pm PT

Brandon,

I shipped you some dollars at the beginning of this even though I've never met you.

You might not use it wisely, and although I hope that won't be the case I'm okay with the risk. FWIW like Werner and possibly Jim Brennan my intention was to help with the treatment part. Feels a little weird, not really sure what I'm contributing to any more.

I've never been through it but some close to me have, so from my humble but quasi-informed perspective I hope you'll consider staying there a little longer (or going somewhere sober, since it sounds like you have already left).

Hey when you climb you read topos, right? Why not listen to those who have gone before you with this?

Truth is: you're stuck with it whether you like it or not. And so is anyone who cares about you.

Send it, man!
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 31, 2019 - 08:42am PT
hey there, say, caylor.... you did well, to make a place for folks to
come here, and share-- as to your TOPIC and journey...

as to this, wow-- thanks for sharing... good solid news to
hang onto, for you:

Jan 29, 2019 - 07:20am PT
A short "small town sobriety story".

So! My wife and I bought a crazy house on the Western Slope of Colorado, Glenwood Springs about 18 months ago. Far away from Boulder/Eldo/Golden where we'd been for many years. There's tons of meetings in Boulder and Golden and nearly a constant social stimulus to keep an alcoholic occupied. The old AA saying goes something like "you only need 2 alcoholics and a resentment to start a new group", well the Front Range has a shitload of that.

Here on the Western Slope there's sooooo many fewer meetings weekly and the distances can be disconcerting as the population is tiny comparatively. It's been really hard for me to stay spiritually fit and focused, I've been really good, progress not perfection, but not fully able to get 90 days and 6 months to click together like I did back in Boulder..

However, in the last 6-8 months a new homegroup was started right in my town, walking distance from my house that I now chair as my service position. As well, a brand new beginners meeting has blossomed over the last 2 months that's also quite close to my house. It started with 4 people, 4 people(none beginners except sort of me), then 5 people, then 7 people, 11 people. This is when I ordered a pile of chips just in case any newcomers actually ever showed. But the meeting's blossomed and we gave away 3 24hr chips last week, lots of tears and laughs. Living in a town of less than 5,000 people can seem like a curse if you let it, but it's really blossomed for me, which is the most important thing right? ME? Just kidding.

Keep fighting the good fight folks and please keep posting here, it's like a virtual meeting?. Live hard, pray harder!

Caylor


have not read any other post, yet, as to brandon's situation, as there is some long ones here, i can't do that right now...
but, hope things are going to turn out, for the good...
oh my...



awwww, the ol' edit:

as to this ... your FIRST post on your thread-share here:

Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 12, 2010 - 01:36pm PT
Tomorrow night, good lord willing and the creek don't rise, I'll be at a month. I did 2 years and 2 months with no problems, until I relapsed. F*#k has it been hard this time around.

I'm the Hankster, I'm supposed to climb sick sh#t and the hit the pub and get faced for ever. At 40 years old, this style is just not that glamorous anymore. All the cool pictures on the Taco have everyone holding a beer. I can't be one of them and it kills me.

I've been climbing hard for 27 years and drinking was always apart of the scene, when did it all change? No DUI's, No job loss, just shame at unacceptable behavior. F*#k.

I'm going to pick up my chip Sunday morning for 1 month, it just feels so empty somehow. I mean, once you get to 1 month, who friggin cares? Not looking for sympathy, it's my deal. I just needed to get this off my back.

Now back to politics and religion!

Caylor



you've come a long way...
and, when one 'makes a trail' to a 'goal' ... well,
there is hopes that other CAN make the trail, too...

each trail may go differntly, but-- if one human can 'forge' on,
another can too...

you give folks hope, hankster... keep enjoying that new trail...
one little bit of light, shining in the DARK,
can and does--

draw others...

collected light, shining then--

can draw more, and give even more hope...


ps-- hug the wife and pupdogs, for me...
:) tell them, i said 'hey there' :)
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 31, 2019 - 08:53am PT
hey there say, jebus h bomz... wow, was just getting off line...

have not had a chance to read all these, as to those hoping and helping
a fellow climber, but-- just as i posted, i did see this, as, the
'numbers' here 'jumped' ...

say, as to your quote:

this was very sweet and very kind...
(to give out of kindness and hope)

Jan 31, 2019 - 08:30am PT
Y'all didn't give your money for an amazon delivery that didn't arrive. Brandon may or may not "sober up" - whatever that means in this decadent, completely addicted to everything society - but you gave your money away out of kindness and hope and that still means something no matter what may result. You can't control his recovery and choices, you just voted in favor of the guy and his redemption with a little cash. I'd suggest a little temperance in responses and to love and let God, as they say.


if one never tries, well, one never knows what 'could have been'...

:)
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jan 31, 2019 - 04:01pm PT
Jebus gets it..
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Jan 31, 2019 - 04:42pm PT
Aw Neebster! Thanks for reminding me as I never go back to the 1st post I ever did to get this topic rolling. Several things I would have said differently but I had no idea at the time. Having to come to the realization and actually admit, and then face the fact that I'm not like everybody else and in the shittiest way was soooo crazy difficult.

Surrender fully, rigorous honesty. I was very surprised this thread had the staying power it did. Knowing I'm not the only one who's life is a full blown repeating train wreck is very very helpful to me. Even though I don't know most of you personally it means so much. More than I could explain.

I love you Neebee, those reflections and words you posted meant the world to me just now.

Hankster
couchmaster

climber
Jan 31, 2019 - 04:56pm PT
Aaron, thank you so much. You words and this thread can make a difference in a persons life, and despite a few asswipes sprinkled in here or there, even saving a single person can and does make a difference. Glad you left it up Mike Honcho.

When I got out of the service, where there was so much drugs and alcohol, I got a job with a bunch of hard charging hard drinking hard working construction workers. These guys drank hard, took lots of drugs and then drank some more ....everyday. One time (this was over 40 years back) I looked up and realized that it had been years since I could remember a day without drinking. So I decided to stop for a year. 1 year. For 4 days I shook and felt like total sh#t. I wanted a drink so much, and I realized: I was an alcoholic. I was 23 years old.

Eventually, I got it under control, but it takes my full mind/body to do so. I'm typing this with a glass of wine in front of me, and I still drink. But after that year of drinking, I realized that needed to not drink 2 days in a row. That's what works for me, and realize that we are all different and that won't work for some folks. Regardless, the never 2 days in a row vow I've held onto for many years. Now I've lightened up on that vow, but I haven't forgotten the 4 days of horror and shaking so long ago.

My advice to anyone who cares is to pull out of the tailspin now, as early as possible. Thank you all of the great folks who've put up stoke and advice on this thread, it matters and it helps to remind all of us.

Warm regards to all:

update, I just saw the post I put up back in 2011 with Hank the Dog pictured in it. That damned Jack Russell crawled deep into those very boulders and got stuck. For at least 20 min that fool howled his fool head off while my wife and I sat and listened to the noise from far into the bowels of the boulders: first with some amusement and then with growing concern. We were so relieved when he finally was able to back out of where ever he was. And that is why they cut those dogs tails off like that.

The other pup was younger than hank and lasted until about 2 months back. She was a rescue as well, all kinds of emotional issues. The multi-thousand dollar vet bill at the end was worth the (failed) shot at saving her. She was only 14 years old. There's some pretty decent climbing routes just to the right and up from these boulders.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 31, 2019 - 07:26pm PT
hey there say, hankster, caylor... say, i love you too...
i love you and your wife and, the the pups, too!
so very much!
thank you for being my friends!

>:D<
johntp

Trad climber
By decision or indecision we are where we are.
Jan 31, 2019 - 07:40pm PT
This is Brandon's home place I'll leave my posts up for a few weeks and request deletetion from this site in the next few weeks.

Why? Gotta say most of the posts on this thread make my eyes glaze over due to length and prattling on and on and on, so I'm a bit lost.

Aaron, you stepped up for a friend. Says a lot to me.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 1, 2019 - 05:59pm PT
I can't help but be worried about B since he's not posted. Really hoping its because he is avoiding emotional drama this thread might have, but really am asking the Universe to keep an eyeball on our fellow Supertopian.
Yeti

Trad climber
Ketchum, Idaho
Feb 1, 2019 - 06:34pm PT
Today is my 32nd anniversary of living without alcohol or any other recreational drug. There are no words to express my gratitude and good fortune at being able to put into action the immortal words of my old friend, Doug Tompkins: "If you are heading in the wrong direction, turn 180 degrees and keep going."
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Feb 1, 2019 - 11:39pm PT
hey there say, happiegrrrl... brandon is trying to get hold of you...
check your facebook messages...


wizard of was

Social climber
serendepidy
Feb 2, 2019 - 06:22am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]minutes away from a hot bath with an imaginary lady friend this 5 am; fresh, warm toast in my belly, another piece dripping with ghee in my hand, loads of work complete- invoices sent out; gustav holtz on the boom box, i peeped into the not-drunks thread. rooting for brandon and all of you other lovely skews.

i have to admit i found coupons for reality in the penny ads, and i rushed to wallmart, isle 6 / 0 and peeked me up some plastic packed reality. god it's f*#king sweet.

but now, i know. which is a burden upon an errant soul. this exaggerated clarity is tipsy. i can weave through hope, upset sorrow, confound god, and marry the devil and in one fluid sweep.

excuse me superdupertopo..... "hold on sweetie i'll be right there. would you like a kumbucha?"

okay team, im back...just had to buy a minute for my head to unspin...yes i talk to my imaginary friend and serve her drinks. her name is steve and i'm not gay. not that that's bad, gay is actually beautiful if that's the way you love...

where was i? oh yea consummating with the devil....

my point for dropping in, is... and jebus instigated this insight that i'm dropping.... with sobriety comes day-in and day-out clarity. right? my mind is no longer bogged down and trampled with stinky alcohol vapors. thus it's not bouncing down life's lane careening off bad judgement and false realities. nope.

it just see's the world for it's truth. it understands relationships. and calculus. it buys reality on sale. and not from a man in a black jacked on the corner. it pleases and thank you's. it raises children with less shouting. it talks to supertopo and other computer theaters on cue...

i love you guys and i'm in this quest right beside you.

i f*#king hate clarity. especially when it cascades over me in droves. but i also hate being a drunk; kinda slave like to alcohol.

that sh#t f*#ked me up in so many ways. in my experience these negative affects were mostly subtle. like music stopped sounding good. and life seemed like a steaming pile of shite that never cooled. i tried to paint said-sh#t-pile with poetry,

but have you ever tried to paint wet shite?

good. dont.
Jim Clipper

climber
Feb 2, 2019 - 11:16am PT
Weege? Going straight to persuade a crooked life towards smoother, more curvalinear bends? Thought there should be some recognition for the effort. Fair travels...
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 2, 2019 - 11:30am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
No Id'ing, be a real pal just say HeyNow-Iko-Iko-for the luv ahll dat is holey ghost leave off outin' him that would post[Click to View YouTube Video]
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Feb 18, 2019 - 02:43pm PT
Asking for a friend.

How can my friend be convinced to get some external help?

He acknowledges that he has an "A" problem. For example once he was found by police passed out in his car in a residential neighbourhood and as a result lost his driving license for three years.
If he is not watched 24x7 by his family, there is a risk of a relapse.

At the same time he claims that he can manage it on his own and doesn't need any external help.

Do you know what could work in such situation?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 18, 2019 - 02:54pm PT
They make us wear those stoopid seat belts but they don’t have the balls to mandate
breathalyser interlocks?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 18, 2019 - 03:20pm PT
Yury, unfortunately, they have to want to quit.

For friends and family there is So-Anon. Beieve it or not, its a powerful tool in helping people recognize "their part" in the relationship with the addicted, and learn ways to cope with, deal with and not enable the addict.
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Feb 18, 2019 - 04:27pm PT
Happiegrrrl2, what is "So-Anon"?
I can't find it on Google.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 18, 2019 - 06:25pm PT
Yuri, my cell phone corrected my typing... Grrrr.

It should be Al-Anon!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 23, 2019 - 06:04pm PT
Gotta say-really happy to have my sobriety these days.

I think of what my life might be like by now if I'd not stopped and stayed stopped. Hard to say, of course.

Sometimes I actually think "Thank god I don't WANT to drink, because I'd probably hate my life if I was drinking." I'd probably be unhappy with such a low level job, and ...how would I even keep my drinks cold!?

Funny that something like that could help keep me away from a drink.

urban burnout

Mountain climber
industrial park
Feb 23, 2019 - 06:21pm PT
i'm glad that you're not unhappiegrrrlll. congratulations on sound decision making with respect to your trajectory as a human being.

i also have to say that sobriety better fills my size 8.5 shoes than that size 10 drunk who stood me up for years. i thought that i had strong stride. good wit.
and sometimes i did.

but it always collapsed. sometimes dramatically but more often like 10 grains of sand at a time, emptying my beach.

now dogs sh#t on my white beach and i just employ the wind to shift grains into a strategic heap, thus hiding other's loin spoils.

may i raise my empty glass to, infinity within our hearts;
broke down pasts everywhere.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 1, 2019 - 11:59pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]


Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Mar 2, 2019 - 09:34am PT
Quit drinking one year ago and enjoying the benefits.

At my age concerned about heath degredation. I've never had much of a drinking problem. My dad did, so I kept and eye on that line and stayed away from it.

Plus there is this:
https://www.aad.org/public/diseases/acne-and-rosacea/rosacea/does-drinking-cause-rosacea

At this point in life I have pretty much experienced and learned all there is to know about drinking. Not much sense in continuing to drink with the negative side effects threating health in various ways.

Escaping the culture of drinking is the hardest part.

Water is very good to drink.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 2, 2019 - 10:00am PT
Alcoholism, alive and kicking in my family, as in the codependency.

This morning one of my younger brothers posts on our private family FB page "Can someone get in touch with(other younger brother)? He called and I can't really him" I though it was a phone typo for can't "reach" him. So I called, and got the joy of listening to a drunken person at 10am his time, 9am mine, going on about how he hates life, and nobody cares and...on and on and on and one.

I hear my mother in his voice - for years every night she would get drunk and cry that nobody loved her, only her dog. Being 10, 12, 14, 16 and hearing that for years on end, nightly. And no amount of "I love you mom. I appreciate you." changes one. damned. thing.

So, I know better than to try to placate.

I give him a while to see if it will run its course, but nope. He's just warming up. No reason to live, the only thing keeping him from killing himself is what it would do to the family, the only reason to live is that his cat needs him.

It's not going to turn to a different conversation. By letting him go on - when I eventually DO get off the phone, he will tell himself that he has been validated in his opinion.

So - no.

I tell him he needs to stop drinking; that life WILL change.

He doesn't want to hear that, of course. "Drinking is all I have in life. I'll kill myself one day after stopping. I can kill myself in one day, or do it slowly by drinking."

After attempting to dissuade him from going there, and failing, I tell him that I cannot talk to him when he is drunk, and will call again later.("When?," I ask myself. "He'll never be not drunk.")

He makes it easy by hanging up on me.

An hour later I turn my phone back on and he is calling me.

We repeat the process and again he hangs up when I refuse to condone his alcoholic ranting.

So - YES, it SUCKS. There really is the possibility he would kill himself. I know that. He's drunk. He's been drunk for years.

It isn't a matter of "I can tell him no because I don't think he'll do it." Its a matter of "I HAVE to say no, because whether or not he does it has nothing to do with what I say to him. I'm simply not that powerful."

A part of me has wanted to say "Yeah, I can see why you have no reason to live. Your life really does suck. You could change that, but if you don't want to do that, then...well, yeah - being dead would be a better option for me, for certain."

I don't wish him another 20, 30 , 40 years of suffering in this disease. I know his life would be difficult when sober. He has brain damage due to years of drinking and a couple bad car accidents, and he does seem to have paranoid thinking - due to the alcohol or an underlying illness - the only way to find out is to take away the alcohol to find out.

I wish him sobriety. So he can see if it's really all as bad as he says. I bet he would find out it's not. Even if his body does ache just doing daily crap. Even if he has Tinitus. Even if he has to eat soft food for his ruined teeth and because his throat is ruined from the booze.

But if he won't get sober - No....I wouldn't blame him one bit for opting out. I would be silently saying "He's in a better place."

Can't tell THAT to my family, that's for sure!

I suggested, to the brother who "couldn't really...." that we should talk about doing an intervention when I come through this spring, and maybe he could run it by our sisters to see what they think. That suggestion went unacknowledged. But it takes time for a seed to sprout, and maybe that will happen(though I really doubt it.)




I ran to NYC in 1986 to get away from the disease that ravages my family. In the process I found a life worth living for myself. It took another 10 years for me to find my own exit ramp to sobriety. Going home really IS difficult for me - the ghosts of the past, present and future. Part of me really wishes I could close the door and say "I can't help you all - I have to save myself. Facebook is as close as I want to get - really."




thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 2, 2019 - 10:53am PT
TIL 30% of Americans don't drink alcohol at all, 60% drink less than 1 drink a week. The top 10% drink ~74 drinks a week.


edit for response to the below: pretty sure it's not hard at all to tipple down 10+ drinks/servings a day if you start going when you open your eyes. not vouching for the source (random completely untrustworthy website) but...24hr/day, that's under half a drink per hour which is barely enough to "feel" esp if you are habituated
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 2, 2019 - 05:18pm PT
Happie. sorry you have so much sh#t to deal with... best of luck with you and your kin.
Treezypoof

Trad climber
Cyberia
Mar 2, 2019 - 05:30pm PT
Ever been to AK?

Sounds conservative. Lol

That might be just the beers.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 2, 2019 - 06:45pm PT
On a good note - my sister posted today on FB that her oldest son checked into a 90 day rehab last Monday.

This is especially poignant because one story that my brother told me today in his drunken ranting was that last weekend he and this nephew were drinking together and a neighbor called the police apparently(according to my brother...) because they were being too loud late at night. My brother ended up arrested that night.

No idea if my nephew was also arrested but SOMETHING happened that got him to go to rehab within the next day or so.

Keep my nephew "Bob"(his nickname) in your thoughts, please!

Interestingly, a month or so ago, I had extended an invitation to visit my place to him and he was super psyched at the idea. I have been wondering how I would deal with it. It's going to be SO great if he gets clean and can come out with a sober visit.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Mar 2, 2019 - 09:52pm PT
It's rough. Trying to get into detox w/no
insurance is debt and a no go.Belive it when
I say it because I've tried it. Medical detox
is out of the hands of those who most need it.
I for one need it and spent weeks looking for help
but it's just not to be found.
Any suggestions?
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 2, 2019 - 10:54pm PT
ST is a simultaneously amazing and awful place d-know, thank you for reaching out.

I know that alcohol withdrawal can outright kill you, unlike H-ron withdrawal (excepting seizure and then head trauma in a fall type scenario, etc.), and my family is short two members directly along these lines of withdrawing from alcohol. I will have a learned answer for you in about 10 hours from the folks I most trust on issues of medicine and addiction.

Peace be with you. Your openness in full view of the often-vituperative peanut gallery reminds me of the expression: "no good deed goes unpunished." Keep your skin thick and I hope to have a good answer for you shortly.

Also, I want to communicate my admiration and give thanks to all of folks here sharing support and offering insight: Happiegirl for persistent and ever-open kindness and sharing of knowledge, Largo for heavyweight backup of the legitimacy of this topic on this site, Tradman for sharing his own redpoint philosophy for better living sans ETOH in yer neuro- and biochemistry, The Hankster for starting the thread, Johntp for the open history sharing (and the tube chocks he gifted me!), Sprock-dad and Weege for their own funky and f*#ky ways of showing their perspective while still (I think) voicing support for others in the struggle, and to all the others that share their own paths and strategies and ways forward, without or with more tightly managed ETOH intake.

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 3, 2019 - 03:29am PT
D Know, email me. btmayo79atgmaildotcom
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2019 - 06:44am PT
D-know: I believe that the local Intergroup offices in AA regions will have information as to whatever options are available.

You can look up "Alcoholics Anonymous + your nearest city" and you should get the number.

They are not only there to advise about AA meetings but to act as a general reference. When I was active in NYC AA I sometimes would volunteer to answer the phones and there was a list of places people could go for help, some free of fees.

Suggestion- call during daytime hours when there is more apt to be an old hat at the place familiar with things. It is all volunteers and understand you may get the call answered by someone who may not be fully aware of every detail the office has access to. Good to have someone there who does.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Mar 3, 2019 - 10:16am PT
Thanks to all who took time to recognise my existence.
Brandon I sent you an email

Happie, Thanks for the recommendation.
Jim Clipper

climber
Mar 3, 2019 - 10:22am PT
Nice to wake up on a Sunday and see the real support. Keep on keeping on..
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 3, 2019 - 10:39am PT
my folks here are lining up with Happie's advice. I think that she has as good as any I can come up with.

no matter what dude, just keep projecting on towards your goal. you look like you push hard in climbing, and I love Tradman's redpoint analogy. If you can find medical detox, go for it, but either way this is a redpoint mission. you can send it: just like you sent the hardest free moves you've redpointed elsewhere, it's a process. just look for that next crimper or shitty foot dish and try your best. we're right there with you.




beaming some good vibes to Bob and to others in the next gen of your relatives, Happie.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 3, 2019 - 06:34pm PT
Treezypoof

Trad climber
Cyberia
Mar 3, 2019 - 07:10pm PT
I watched BVB through my computer screen for a long time, and it was very influential on me and my eventual sobriety.

Thanks for continuing to share, OffWhite.

Rest in Peace always seems sincere and appropriate, but the reality is that we have One Chance before lights out.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 3, 2019 - 10:49pm PT
Treezy, he would be moved to tears to hear that. Well done.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 8, 2019 - 08:29pm PT
OVERSHARE/BOUNDARY ISSUE/TROLL CHUM ALERT:

I have not reached the self-mastery of those that I most admire. Tears come easily for me. But I have finally chosen the path of self-mastery, embracing my inability to have a single bevvy. Measure my liberation in weeks or days, whatever, but tonight for the first time in as long as I can remember, I cried tears of joy. I am sober. And I f*#king love it.



After he had journeyed,
And his feet were sore,
And he was tired,
He came upon an orange grove
And he rested.
And he lay in the cool,
And while he rested,
He took to himself an orange
And tasted it,
And it was good.
And he felt the earth to his spine,
And he asked,
And he saw the tree above him,
And the stars,
And the veins in the leaf,
And the light,
And the balance.
And he saw magnificent perfection,
Whereon he thought of himself in balance,
And he knew he was.
___**Just open your eyes, and realize,
The way it's always been.**__
Just open your mind and you will find
The way it's always been.
Just open your heart and that's a start
And he thought of those he angered,
For he was not a violent man,
And he thought of those he hurt
For he was not a cruel man
And he thought of those he frightened
For he was not a evil man,
And he understood.
He understood himself.
Upon this
He saw that when he was of anger
Or knew hurt
Or felt fear,
It was because he was not understanding.
And he learned, compassion.
And with his eye of compassion
He saw his enemies
Like unto himself,
And he learned love.
Then, he was answered.
Just open your eyes, and realize,
The way it's always been.
Just open your mind and you will find
The way it's always been.
Just open your heart and that's a start
Just open your eyes, and realize,
The way it's always been.
Just open your mind and you will find
The way it's always been.
Just open your heart and that's a start

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Thank you to those that came before but did not find their path to freedom; my dear maternal grandmother, my dear sweet Uncle Robin, gone too soon to the poison and the sickness. Thank you to BVB and to Jason and to all those that gave me the lessons that took so long to finally stick.


It's been a long time coming for me, this self-driving-self, and I am so curious to see what this does to my drive to solo new route on my sacred secret summits, to my relationship with my wife, to my career non-trajectory (MSci Org Geochem Carpentry anyone?).

Today was a good day. Tomorrow may be harder but it will be better with a closer to mastered self.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 8, 2019 - 09:08pm PT
Pretty brave there Mr Cowboy, best of luck to you, I hope you stick with it. I'd urge you to find some local support. There are alternatives to AA if you're not particularly the god bothering sort.

I think this thread in particular is open to a little oversharing, seems like folk get treated pretty gently and often it's the absolute best of ST. Tip o' the cap to Mr Caylor for starting it.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 9, 2019 - 02:31am PT
Cheers cowboy
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 9, 2019 - 06:01am PT
It angers me that admitting our vulnerabilities and exposing our secret shames, fears, outrages and humiliations is dubbed "oversharing."

The sequestering of our secrets makes us feel we are the only ones who(fill in the blank). It keeps us from feeling confident in our place in society. I don't trust people who see exposure of the truth as a Dracula on a bloodletting. I can't help but wonder what it is that THEY know is their secret shame and will carry to the grave. Kind of like the holier-than-thou politicians who are hiding embezzlement, briberies, blackmails, infidelities and corruption.

But back to the thread - way to go, BraveCowboy. Trust that sober mule you ride on. Path may get rocky at times, but the mule is stubborn, resilient, sure-footed and tenacious.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Mar 9, 2019 - 06:35am PT
hey there say, bravecowboy... keep up the good work, ...

and of course pup-dog, will be twice the happier!

and, the trails, will be twice, the lovely, as to god's nature,
around you...


hugs, to happiegrrrl...

my friend, got her 'lovely work' from you life-of-truth...

:)
however, she is old fashioned and wanted to open it, after the
day out, for the birthday treat...



*say, as to sharing truth... she has shared her life, openly, and
she is 96...

what is to hide...?
your life is you... it's going to follow you somehow, anyways,
somehow-- she is very up-front...
although, not gushy about it... (she said she her nature of german, is
what you see is what you get... you either like her, or you don't)...

;)



being out in the light and not having to live in shadows, whether of the
'now' or, 'the past' : give freedom...

and, the light, also, after freedom, give life...
there are things we can learn from nature, flower gardens...
our pets, etc...


there is a lot of mold, and damp rot, in the hidden darkness...
it can be used as 'fertilizer' if we give it up, and
cultivate the NEW, in the light of day...


best wishes and good luck, and prayers, as to all those,
starting out new...


a day at a time, leads to the rest of your life...
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Mar 9, 2019 - 07:08am PT
A brave thread, in many ways. TFPU, all.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 10, 2019 - 07:34pm PT
Thanks y'all. I appreciate your not begrudging me the overshare.

I really dig that sober mule thing, Happie. I'm keeping it. :-)

I am building my first (poverty) boat offa the pile of some old guy's offal (awful?) deal of the century, and I dissembled part of his old seat deck today. This really spoke to me, pulling off his sweet coozy and watching it disintegrate:


We see what we choose to or want to see for sure...
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 11, 2019 - 07:42am PT
^Out with the old, in with the new. May your cozy hold only non-toxic beverages!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 11, 2019 - 08:05am PT
TBC, let’s talk. Be nice to shoot the breeze with someone today.
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
May 20, 2019 - 07:44pm PT
"Everyone can master a grief but he that has it"
Shakespeare

My last post to this thread was July 31, 2013.
I was struggling.
I fell.

Just got back on my feet.
Sorry to see this conversation end.

" And here I am budding
among the ruins
with only sorrow to bite on
as if weeping were a seed and I
the earth's only furrow."
Pablo Neruda
Treezypoof

Trad climber
Cyberia
May 31, 2019 - 10:47pm PT
Saying a sober farewell to Supertopo.

A nod to BVB.

Best wishes to Bluering, Brandon, and the likes of us.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
May 31, 2019 - 10:49pm PT
hey there, say... Treezypoof...


good post, to bring up, for signing off on, too...

it was wonderful help to so many...
hope, archive wise, that it will be, in the future, too...
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