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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 7, 2005 - 05:19pm PT
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Who remembers this gem from cold nights around the fire in Josh?
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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I haven't yet but...
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2005 - 05:51pm PT
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oh man, the power of suggestion can be sooo strong. I must resist!!
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
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What's it like? What is the pressure of liquid butane?
Juan
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2005 - 06:31pm PT
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"What is the pressure of liquid butane?"
Sort of depends on where you're sitting when they huck it in.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
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I think its fairly low.
Sounds interesting will have to try it at next camp fire.
How much energy in a Bic Lighter.
I will drill a hole in one now at lab.
Hold on.
Juan
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Straight Outta Squamton
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Knott too long ago, we threw a spent asthma-canister into a campfire.
It made a little "poof", so we threw in another one. This one went "pop",
and was just a little bit louder. So we threw in the remaining dozen or so...
KAAABOOOM!!
4 or 5 of them went off as loud as firecrackers––with HUGE showers of sparks everywhere.
We were running around frantically stamping out the embers which were spread in a 40 foot circle.
My folding camp chair got a couple nice holes burned into it.
What a riot!
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WBraun
climber
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Throw a propane bottle in next time, Hardnman it makes a nice pop too. We once did.
Klaus it was Harpol
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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The best is an empty or nearly empty can of shaving cream!
or hairspray, or deodorant...any aerosol.
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CorporateDog
climber
Middle California
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Don't know if these nasty things still exist - but in my misspent youth - we would take those little pop top cans of Vienna Sausages and bury them in the coals of fellow camper's firepits.
Took awhile for the steam to build up - but when it did - BAM - little meat byproduct shrapnel all over the place.
Pop top cans of pork and beans worked well too.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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Not 100% sure Klaus, just seems to blow up bigger.
My theory...
it's basically the air inside the can that expands to make
the can rupture.
If it's full of shaving cream, there's not enough air to expand.
Once the can is ruptured the leftover propellant in the can
escapes and adds to the boom.
Maybe Ed H. can have the boys at the lab do some experiments and tell us for sure.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Bic lighters are under slight pressure. No biggie though.
The best garage chemical explosion is from a can of Ether. You know, like the old carb/engine starter spray... F*#king enormous blast....
-Fear
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2005 - 10:08pm PT
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So, in a best case scenario, what would be the best ammo for a potato cannon?
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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It's all about the air:fuel ratio...
Starter fluid is my personal favorite.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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all things considered, there are more interesting explosives to play with than Bic lighters... if you like to play with explosives. Doubt that we could generate much interest here.
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prongo
Trad climber
east side kid
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how bout a 5 gallon bottle of propane
just dont stand to close
maybe a 1/4 mile should be safe
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cactus
Trad climber
okanagan
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Flammable substances do not "catalyze" a reaction ... 2 cents from a chem grad.
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hobo
Trad climber
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How to make a bomb, with a pipe, and some gunpowder. Commonly known as a pipe bomb.
Buy some thick pipe, maybe 1/4 inch thick or so. Weld a plate onto the bottom and top. The better the weld, the better the explosion.
Next, drill a small hole in the top, enough to fill w/ gunppowder. Fill it pretty full. Here is where you be careful. No fire or sh#t around, cuz your ass will fill with shrapnel.
Pack the gunpowder with somethin you can fit in the hole. Buy the best epoxy around, and i mean the best. Then, put in a long wick (long is good so you dont die while lighting it), and epoxy the sh#t out of it.
Place it under that huge ass boulder you cant climb, and if your bomb is big enough and built right, voila! No more boulder.
thanks for your attention, i hope it works out.
alex baker
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WBraun
climber
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We did that in Junior high and we dug a deep hole and put that sucker in there. Then we set a gallon of gas on top of it, lit it and ran like hell.
Looked just like in the movies .......Kah boom and a huge fireball.
Good stuff .........
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
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You guys are really starting to scare me!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Is Alex Baker somebody you don't like?
Are you guys beta testing some internet filters for the Homeland Security Internet Bots?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
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I have this USGS article that explains in detail how to build large Ammonia nitrate bombs.
Juan
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hobo
Trad climber
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No, Karl, thats me. I used to make those in high school, for whatever reason. Im reasonably sure making those things isnt illegal... hmmmmm. do you know?
alex
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prongo
Trad climber
east side kid
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damn- hard top that one
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BKW
Mountain climber
Central Texas
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Yea Juan, thats scarier than when some one threw a hand full of 22's into the fire.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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I make Ammonal (legally) all the time!
I use it for exploding targets!
Ammonium Nitrate and Aluminum Powder.
It is considered a binary explosive...so as long as you mix it where you detonate it,
don't transport it and don't store any in a mixed form, your legal.
It is very powerful but quite stable.
Requires the use of a blasting cap or the way I do it is to
shoot it with a high powered rifle.
Be careful, cuz technically it's a blasting agent and creates a pretty powerfull shock wave.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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When I wis a kid once we were camped at Twin Lakes (Materhorn Sierra) the people in the next site burned a bag of gabage that contained an old propane cannister.
KA-BOOM. Deafening, full mushroom flame, injuries, ambulance, the works. My dad made me put our own fire out.
I recall a couple of scary incidents involving aerosal cans and campfires; Phoenix Bouldering Contest, and a slide show party at paradise forks, the common factor may have been Sherman.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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I was teaching a 3 day class in Alabama last year, and one of the guys attending was from Mississippi and we stayed at the same hotel.
I rode with him in the morning and noticed an empty box of "exploding targets" on the floor of his truck.
I tell him about Ammonal, where to get it etc. He orders some that nite!
I talk to him on the phone a couple weeks later and he tells me the fun he's having with it.
He lives on 40+ acres and was doing it in his back yard!
He tells me that the cops came, but thought it was the coolest thing, and he even took some down to the police range for them to play with.
All good right? Not so fast.
I talk to him in another couple of weeks and he tells me that he just spent $6,000 replacing ALL the windows in his house.
Why I said, remodeling?
No, he says and proceeds to tell me what happened.
I guess the small ones and even the 2 liter bottles full he was doing weren't big enough for him. So he got an idea.
He started with the standard small bottle, about 8 oz of Ammonal,
and stuck that into a one pound can of shotgun shell powder!
He says it was about 80 yards from his house, and he shot it from about 60 yards away. When it went off, it blew out every window in his house, blew his wife off the couch in the house, blew stuff off the walls, and glass landed on him 20 yards away from the house.
Even blew his pump house off the foundation!
He said he could see the shock wave as it traveled through the trees.
His friend who lives almost ten miles away thought it sounded like thunder from his house.
The cops came and weren't so friendly this time.
He's lucky he knows them all.
His wife flipped out etc...bad scene.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
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Shack, LOL.
I was at a NSS Caving Convention in TAG. These TAG guys got drunk and start throwing half sticks of Dynamite into the air.
It was the loudest explosuions I ever heard.
It was fantastic.
I really did used to operate a light gas gun at Caltech.
Fastest in the west!
Juan
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Hey Shack or any of you pyro/gun nut types, have you ever heard of someone shooting a big big propane tank, like the size of one behind a house, out in desert or somewhere, for kicks?
Seems like a natural, but I've never heard of someone doing it. Does it work like I'd imagine?
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Edge
Trad climber
New Durham, NH
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In the early eighties, when we had to hang our food from trees, there was one particular year heavy with bear problems, and at the far end of Camp 4 (Sunnyside then, puke)there was a bear trap set up to capture one particularly pesky problem bear.
One day, after a campsite neighbor lost all of his food, several very nice stacking aluminum pans, and a cookstove to the beast, he told me that he was "going to get back at that fvkker by putting 6 hits of purple microdot in some raw hamburger and setting it out late at night."
Fortunately, I was able to reason with him, and point out the downside of an animal of that size, with claws, teeth, and all, tripping his a$$ off.
The microdot was then put to more productive use, or so I am told...
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Anybody make a grease bomb? Heat a #10 can of grease to boiling, then add water (at the end of a 14 foot oar or equivalent). The resulting fireball can go as high as 30 feet and last for quite a few seconds...
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Landgolier
climber
Arlington, VA
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When I was a kid a bunch of the dads had a hunting camp way out in BFE, mostly a boys thing but to keep the wives happy we'd do a big family campout there once a year. A little too much money sloshing around, so at some point they decided they were sick of dealing with small propane cylinders and they were just going to get a big home-sized tank, and when they needed it filled they'd just hoist it up onto the back of one of the swamp buggies, drive it out to the road, and meet the propane guy there. Flawless plan, what could go wrong? Over the years they managed to:
-Drop it off the winch
-Drop it off the back of the buggy onto a stump and dent it
-Drop it off the back of the buggy into about 3' of water
-Back into it with a truck, breaking off the line and spewing half a tank of gas out with a campfire going 50 yards away, causing them to haul ass out of there at a dead sprint for about 1/4 mile where they then stood around in the woods for 3-4 hours debating what to do and which way the wind was going and which summamabitch's fault it was.
-Decide they were tired of the danger of hauling it with a little gas left and decide to just crack a valve and blowtorch off all the gas (8' jet of flame, several trees singed)
-Leave it by the road overnight when de gas mon didn't show up (this was back in the CB radio days) and come back the next day to discover somebody had plunked it about 5 times with a .22, but whoever did it didn't have the balls to get close enough to do any damage and had shot from waaay back, so there were only some tiny divots.
The fact that the big kaboom never actually happened speaks only to the universe's willingness to protect fools and little children.
Also, this is geeked out, but a tradition at my college was to gather on a sunday morning in may, appropriately hung over/blazed/unslept/unshowered/puking, pass out the full score for the 1812 overture, cover any missing instruments with the non-orchestral randomness that people brought (autoharp, casio keyboard, bagpipes, etc...) and then pass out kazoos to cover the rest (5 man plastic kazoo brigade trying to be a french horn section is a beautiful thing), rehearse for exactly one hour, and then lay into it for all we were worth (not much). The kicker was we would do this in a courtyard beneath a set of pre-communist russian church bells salvaged in the early lenin days. These would be used for the bell parts, despite the fact that they were not tuned to the normal modern scale. The real kicker, though, was doing the canon shots with MASSIVE baloons filled with lab gas, pinned to the ground with tent stakes and torched off by a guy in Mr. Wizard goggles with a road flare duct taped to the end of a 10' bamboo pole. Absolute brilliant madness, in a geeky sort of way...
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prongo
Trad climber
east side kid
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Juan got me thinking
does anybody know where i can get some of that highly enriched uranium? ya know for entertainment purposes only.
oh yeah i'll need some of that real thick aluminum tube but only about 4 feet or so and what kind of detonator will i need for it all?
and do i need any safety precautions or can i just light the fuse and run?
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2005 - 02:12pm PT
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When I was in the Army in Germany, back in the mid 70s. I was initially stationed in a maintance unit. Well the guys who were in the supply platoon (the guys who ordered all the material for surrounding units) ordered, 1 U.S. Army Atomic Bomb Simulator. This consisted of a 55 gallon drum filled with C4. They somehow got it into the supply depot and were planning of celebrating the 4th of July, for the benefit of our German hosts, by blowing it off in a field nearby. LOL, man when the company CO found out about that, all sorts of sh#t started going down.
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Roger Brown
climber
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I got my spud gun from Spudguntechnology.com. Fast service and he makes a great product. If you don't want to buy one of his, he will provide instructions on how to build your own.
Roger
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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Yep Jaybro...The propane tank is a long standing favorite of us "gun nuts".
We usually take the small ones that you get for your Coleman stove.
They're cheap and not too dangerous.
We've tried exploding tip bullets to set them off,
but it's much easier to just set a flare next to them and shoot them.
Sometimes its a pretty good kaboom, but many times it's just a fireball. Always beware of the flying canister!
Here is where to get your own exploding targets.
They are legal...I checked with my friend who is pretty high up in the ATF(and also a gun "nut"). Enjoy!
http://www.tannerite.com/she_exploding_targets.html
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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Also for real great homemade noise makers...
The Acetylene and Oxygen baggie bombs Rule!
Standard procedure is to fill plastic garbage bags,
But my buddy fills balloons with the mixture, connects a time delay fuse,
something like 3 to 4 minutes,
lights them and lets them float up over his neighborhood
and BOOOOM!!!
They are usually quite high when they go off but they put off a major flash and concussion!
Not traceable either!!
PS: Acetylene and oxygen are the 2 gases from a standard welding torch, in case you didn't know!
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jbaker
Trad climber
Takoma Park, MD
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A friend of mine set this off this summer. Note the person on the right for scale.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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...boys will be boys.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
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Shack,
Where can I get pure AMN?
Juan
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
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This is the best thread I have seen in my 15 years on the internet.
Shack should write a climbing/explosives manual.
Juan
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yo
climber
NOT Fresno
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"This is the best thread I have seen in my 15 years on the internet." haahahaha
Spent CO2 cartridges, like from pellet guns and stuff, those are cool too. When we were ten my friend made like a dozen of those, drilling out the hole, adding powder, and sealing them up with waterproof fuses. Excellent for swimming pools, portapotties, dumpsters, etc. Have a Huffy or Diamondback standing by for quick egress.
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Landgolier
climber
Arlington, VA
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Speaking of acetylene, anybody here old school enough to have used calcium carbide caving lamps? "Just add water..."
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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Juan..
the tannerite link I posted above for the exploding targets...
that is Ammonium Nitrate in the bottles and it comes with a jar of Aluminum powder.
When you mix a teaspoon of Aluminum powder and a bottle of Ammonium Nitrate, you have what is known as AmmonAl.
If you want chemicals to play with...I'll give you 2 good sources.
http://www.unitednuclear.com/supplies.htm
click on "chemicals and metals" upper right
http://www.skylighter.com/
click on "chemicals" on the left side
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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That looks like a typical gasoline "bomb".
If it was an true explosion you would not be standing that close.
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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How about the 'girly girls" bullet, that got tossed into the fire a few "winter Josh's" back?
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426
Sport climber
Wartburg, TN
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How about down the side of "Intersection" on New Year's?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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off topic, but related;
more at www.drmegavolt.com
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Ouch!
climber
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One time we were on a military exercise in -zero temps. Standing around a burning barrel to warm up. Some as#@&%e sneaked a handful of blanks into the barrel. Piece of brass blew out and hit a dude in the throat. Got unfunny fast. Damn near bled to death before we could get him hauled in out of the desert.
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WBraun
climber
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Survival Research Labs at: http://www.srl.org/
These guys do the big. We had a guy on Sar that worked for them and still does.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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Oct 10, 2005 - 12:40am PT
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Not likely. Black powder is relavively safe.
Flash powder, yes.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Oct 10, 2005 - 03:19am PT
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bic in the fire? light.
can of wd40 inthe fire? FUN.
magnisium engine block in the fire? DAMN. burned so bright that hvcg was a nuclear reaction, you could'a soloed the comic strip whick was a mile away, and then read a newspaper on the summit......
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KarlP
Social climber
Queensland, NorCal, Iceland
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Oct 10, 2005 - 08:39am PT
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zardoz: if by "pool acid" you mean caustic soda, NaOH, then a far more interesting thing to do than simply sticking alfoil in and closing the lid, is to catch the gas that comes off, which is hydrogen.
The downside is that it tends to burn so quickly that you don't really get good fireballs. But for floating over the neighbourhood, they are pretty sweet.
Biggest personal, which got me a few days off school, was black powder inside an empty soda bulb cannister, taped up, and with a sparkler for a fuse. Big enough to see the shockwave move out, which was pretty impressive. We even got away with for a couple of months, then some lunatic chucked a caustic bomb (caustic soda, alfoil and water, screwed up tight in a coke bottle) in a bin in the teachers office, and complained that "well those guys got away with it" (Ignoring the fact that we blew a crater out in the back oval, not throwing acid (sorry, base!) around an office)
But for something a little different, which I've not seen mentioned....
Potassium Nitrate, melted together with sugar. Normally, if you melt it at a low enough temperature, mixed well, you get a very nice caramel coloured lump, that when lighted produces copious amounts of smoke.
But when you "upscale" (always a disaster recipe) and make about 500g of it at once, just by sticking a tin half and half on the stove top on high. welllll. It all looks fine, then you go to stir it, and all of a sudden air gets down to the bottom of the mixture, and it fountained hot caramel/ash all over the kitchen, and released said volumes of smoke. While the family was chatting after dinner no less. That was the end of the counter tops, the cupboard doors, and any of those hobbies of mine for a while.
Cheers,
Karl P
PS: As for bics, they are simply unreliable. I've had them go bang when being dropped, and merely pop from going in the fire. and vice versa.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2005 - 09:51am PT
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The thread drift has been very enlighting and fun. But what really prompted me to post this thread was something we would do when things would start to get boring around the fire out at Josh.
As the evening would wear on and the lies about routes, people, and things in general would taper off, someone would seriptiously toss said lighter into the fire unnoticed. Then very, very quietly, they would begin to whisper "bic in the fire" so the people next to them could barely hear it. Then very subtly increase the volume, "bic in the fire" and since time was of the essence, keep repeating it until, suddenly someone figured out what was being said and the lightbulb would go on and those who understood it's meaning would back away from the fire, until the bic would go whoosh, startling the drunks, stoners (which the majority were) out of their stupor. What was funny about it was watching the reactions of people once they figured out what was going on.
As far as serious pyro-entertainment went, I still have to refer to my army days since they had the really good stuff. When I was first in, they had me tagged for mortors. Mainly 81mm, but we also had fun with the 4.2s. When I was going thru infantry training at Fort Polk LA. we would be on night firing missions on the same range as the .50 cal machineguns, the 105 recoilless rifiles and our mortors.
Well this being the early 70s acid was still a major player in the recreation drug scene and many of us would drop prior to going out on night firing exercises. Well I can imagine you can guess the rest, but it was totally a trip to be out there at night, firing off white phosphorus, illumination and high explosive rounds along with the tracers from the .50 cals and the 105s all going off at the same time. Man-o-man, talk about trails and patterns. LOL, yep that was our army in action. A bunch of tripped out yahoos down in Little Vietnam (Ft. Polk) having fun with Owsely's best.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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Oct 10, 2005 - 11:43am PT
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"Potassium Nitrate, melted together with sugar. Normally, if you melt it at a low enough temperature, mixed well, you get a very nice caramel coloured lump, that when lighted produces copious amounts of smoke."
Yep done this...works well.
I recommend an electric hot plate outside!
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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Oct 10, 2005 - 12:16pm PT
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OK, all you pyros out there...
Here is the dangerous stuff...If you die from messing around with these formulas...
don't come crying to me!
Use at your own risk.
All amounts are by weight NOT volume. Make very small amounts at a time, or better yet don't make them at all!
FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY!
Flash Powder Formulas:
http://www.geocities.com/tshack100/FlashPowderFormulas.doc
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 10, 2005 - 02:16pm PT
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Juan,
You gotta watch those cavers.
NSS 17434
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Oct 10, 2005 - 03:11pm PT
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Years ago at a family beach campfire by a big a rock, my step sister says "Dad, does metal burn?" He's a fire chief. Perplexed, he replies "no, not usually." Nobody sees her slip an unopened can of chili into the coals to heat up. Half an hour later an incredible explosion blows the fire out of the ring, hot coals showering all of us as we fall away backward. The can lands back in the pit, one end gone the other bulged out. Boiling chili splattered all over the rock. Luckily the directional blast went away from us. No, the metal didn't burn, but...
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Oct 10, 2005 - 03:19pm PT
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Speaking of directional blasts, my brother-in-law is an architect and did some work for AeroJet over by Sacramento designing bunkers for explosives and rocket fuel. The blast potential would be devastating if it went toward town. If I remember correctly they aimed the blow out doors East and were asked to allow for a 70 mile (!) blast range, up into the foothills. I always wondered what they were storing.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 10, 2005 - 05:32pm PT
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"...Boiling chili splattered all over the rock..."
Yeah, I have much the same reaction after eating chili.
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spyork
Trad climber
Fremont, CA
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Oct 10, 2005 - 05:44pm PT
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Camping on the middle fork of the Yuba River a long time ago. Sitting around the campfire with my brother. One of his drunken friends walks by the fire. Next thing I know I hear pffft-zing!!! My brother and I ran like hell. Dipshit threw a handful of .22 hi -powers in the fire. Guns, alcohol, and illegal substances just dont mix well.
Steve
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Craig Sundquist
Trad climber
Yakima, WA
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Dec 17, 2005 - 02:05pm PT
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No one has mentioned ammonium tri iodide yet. Fun stuff! Take iodine crystals and add household ammonia. Pull out the sludge and let it dry. Touch it and it explodes--contact explosive! Had fun in college with paper airplanes loaded with the stuff tossed out the 9th floor dorm window. Fun on the floor or in key holes. Experiment with small bits first. Can be pretty powerful.
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Eric Chisholm
Trad climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Dec 17, 2005 - 02:57pm PT
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This is a B.L.E.V.E. Boiling liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion
http://www.dcfp.navy.mil/mc/video/truckfire.htm
This the same thing that happens with any pressurized steal vessel that has direct flame contact above the liquid line in the vessel.
A bic lighter will not BLEVE, the plastic melts before the liquid boils and create enough pressure to rupture.
Gas and Diesel transports will not bleve ether, they are made of aluminum and met also.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Dec 17, 2005 - 03:29pm PT
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I cant believe nobody has mentioned the Sobe Bomb, makes a awsome mushroom explosion wuth very little noise.
It creates BLEVE in a Sobe drink bottle.
Take one glass Sobe bottle
Fill to the top with gasoline, leave no airspace
Screw on lid of bottle
Put a small pin hole in the center of the lid
Wipe off residual gas
Place upright in the middle of super hot campfire coals
(it is key that it DOES NOT FALL OVER)
Stand back!!
It will start to sputter then the gas will ignite as it escapes through the pin hole. It is now acting like a jet engine. As the pressure builds in the bottle it will eventualy blow the lid off and create a spectacular fire bomb. We did 3 of these in the Saline Valley last month and folk driving into the valley saw them from 30 miles way. The glass does not explode and can be removed from the fire soon after the explosion and disposed of properly. I am saving my Sobe bottles for my next desert adventure :)
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Dec 17, 2005 - 04:35pm PT
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Rajmit
I am not saying it could not happen but I have seen several of these things go off and the top alaways pops off before the pressure is enough to blow the glass apart. I also have only seen it done with Sobe bottles. I would not try it with another type of bottle.
We are talking bombs here right? I never said it was safe. And I did say stand back.
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Eric Chisholm
Trad climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Dec 17, 2005 - 04:37pm PT
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Batrock,
That is not a bleve. There is no explosion. Just a hell of a fire ball.
It is a basic jet engine.
Because there is a hole in the lid and the lid is made of a soft metal it should never explode. the hole should allow the excess pressure to be relived before it ever explodes (but be careful).
Bet it looks cool!
-Eric
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Dec 17, 2005 - 04:51pm PT
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One night we're sitting around the campfire in JT and Angry Tim is playing with a .45 slug (real) Ya'll know him right?
He's also holding a AA battery hidden in his hand under .45 slug. He pretends to toss the slug into the fire (he tossed the hidden battery). The entire fire TAKES COVER except for this one hippy kid that was strummin' the guitar. The kid looks up to see an empty fire and decides he should leave in a hurry as well. A few minutes later we hear the battery explode (pffffffffft). Angry boy was laughing his ass off at us.
Oh... and then there was that New Years when some knucklehead decided to light the rocks on fire RIGHT next to my campsite. The best part was watching the two boneheads walk off the rock right into the hands of the NPS. The fire was bigger than an exploding Bic.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Dec 17, 2005 - 04:53pm PT
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for jetcrashes, exploding buildings or train wrecks i like to use Gasoline at 75 psi through birdbeak sprayers with Liquid propane superheated and delivered at 120 psi.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 17, 2005 - 05:06pm PT
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You guys must really trust the Government to post your explosive making info on the net. I don't trust em. See the link that Matt posted in the Tax Dollars thread.
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12-05/12-17-05/a09lo650.htm
Not to mention the recent scrapping over NSA wiretaps.
See ya in Gitmo!
peace
karl
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Dec 17, 2005 - 05:23pm PT
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Eric,
Dont you think the gas in side the bottle is boiling before it blows it's top? When the top blows the mushroom fire ball reaches a height of about 40-50'. In the first few minutes after it is placed in the fire it vents like a jet engine making shrill sound and a jet of flame about 3' high. As product is burnt off I would think vapor starts to expand as the product boils to a point beyond what the cap can handle. When it finaly blows isn't it vapor that causes the fireball?
I am not saying you are wrong because it sure sounds like you know what you are talking about but why would this not be considered a mini BLEVE?
Kevin
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Dec 17, 2005 - 05:41pm PT
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good point Karl,
most of the explosive devices described on this page are illegal and a couple are extremely dangerous.
i would not reccommend any of them.
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flamer
Trad climber
denver
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Dec 17, 2005 - 07:18pm PT
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Batrock.....It is not considered a BLEVE because it does not explode. It vents....but doesn't explode.
I was going to post up about BLEVE but Eric beat me too it.
Early someone asked about shooting the Very large propane tanks that you see in rural areas. Shooting them would not cause them to explode. They are not under pressure(well not much) they are actually full of liquid propane...which makes them ripe for a BLEVE if heated to the boiling point...but not a "puncture" explosion. However BLEVE could only happen if the pressure relief valve malfunctioned.
Now natural gas tanks are a different story....
As a fireman let me thank you all for my job security!!!
josh
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Dec 17, 2005 - 07:36pm PT
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When I was in school, not being a 'real' chemist an all, we weren't allowed to use the really feisty chemicals. We were left to play with liquid nitrogen and dry ice instead. A favorite was putting dry ice in assorted sealed vessels until the vapor pressure was enough to blow up the vessel. This was always something tame, like blowing up a test tube.
One day after tossing buckets of liquid nitrogen down the hall and blowing up a few test tubes, one of the more serious members of our lab who'd been poo-pooing our antics quietly decided to drop a big hunk of dry ice into a soap-filled bucket of speant glass pipettes as she worked at her bench.
What happened was like some absurd scene out of a bad sitcom. The entire lab flooded with this ever expanding flow of foam. She panicked and ran out of the lab, leaving the dry ice to do its thing. It's amazing how great a volume of suds a 10 gallon bucket is able to make.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Dec 17, 2005 - 08:07pm PT
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Josh,
It is venting pretty intense before the top blows. When somthing explodes ie. a tank doesnt it usualy fail at it's weakest point? In the case of the SOBE bottle wouldn't the cap be the weakiest point? The vapor inside the bottle reaches a point where the expansion can no longer be contained and it blows, I hesitate using the word explode because I am probably wrong but it sure seems like a explosion of vapor to me. The video a few posts up of the BLEVE in I think it was Mexico was venting prior to the explosion, the venting just could not keep up with the expansion of vapor. It seems like it's the same with the SOBE bottle only on a microscale. I have been just feet away from a propane tank exploding in a confined space. It knocked me off my feet and threw me back about 15 feet. Fortunetly the tank flew the opposite direction. I guess I am having a hard time with when does a violent vent become a exlposion. Kind of like when does hot water become warm water. And BTW I am a fireman too. And it was fireman who firs showed me this:)
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2005 - 08:49pm PT
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Minerals, you really should have joined up. You probably missed your calling. How do you think it feels with a minigun in your hands??? Purdy cool.
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cybele
Ice climber
finally, west of the Mississippi
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Dec 17, 2005 - 08:53pm PT
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Your FBI files are growing by the minute! Great thread.
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Dec 18, 2005 - 01:26pm PT
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"Spent CO2 cartridges, like from pellet guns and stuff, those are cool too. When we were ten my friend made like a dozen of those, drilling out the hole, adding powder, and sealing them up with waterproof fuses."
Those nitrous cannisters work great too. Y'know, they call them whippets, I think because they're used for whipping cream.
Oh, and as for those directions posted above for making a pipe bomb... *way* too complicated. All you need is a short length of pipe threaded on both ends - can buy in any hardware store. Drill a hole the size of your fuse, screw a cap on one end, fill with powder, screw cap on the other end, and you're done. No welding needed!
Fun thread, thanks! It's been a while since I was a teen. Beyond the statute of limitations, I'd like to think. Anyway, nice memories.
I'll add one more little bit. Pyrotechnics, this - not explosion. But another use for that spent lighter, before you throw it into the fire.
Take a bic lighter apart, and you'll find the flint held in place up against the steel barrel by a spring. Pull out the spring, stretch it out, and attach the flint to one end of the spring. Hold the other end. With another lighter, heat the flint up until it glows brightly (bright yellow, not red). Then hit it. We used to flick it with one of those unbreakable plastic combs that were popular in the eighties, but a well shaped stick might work just as well. You get a huge bright shower of sparks.
Cheers!
GO
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Dec 18, 2005 - 02:32pm PT
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"saline valley"-Batrock ... Okay, now I got it, knew something seemed familiar
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Wheatus
Social climber
CA
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Dec 18, 2005 - 04:15pm PT
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I witnessed a few camp fire parties at Camp 4 that had some interesting pyrotechnics. Someone would yell "fire in the hole". Everyone would run from the camp fire in all directions. A large explosion and a fire ball would light up Camp 4 like daytime. Spent GAZ canisters were used. Very impressive. This was usually followed by a visit from the rangers to break up the party.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 18, 2005 - 10:53pm PT
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Once there was a car camping campground that butted up against the back of camp four.
A group of us nobodys religated to the back of C4 were tokeing away and watching a group of turons from New Jersey trying to start a campfire with about a two foot diameter log newspaper and no kindling. The beer and the smoke amplified the hysterics from us spectators, (I think Tobin might have been one of them)
until we saw one of them come back out of the dark with a five gallon gas can.
The dead silence of disbelief.
A NO! in unison!
Slackjawed we witnessed a fireball worthy of Falluja
Shortly followed by sirens,rangers, fire trucks and a quick escorted exit for the New Jerseyans.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Dec 18, 2005 - 11:36pm PT
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Rajmit,
It takes about 2 min. before the top blows. Superhot coals work the best. I wish I knew how to post a video. I have one I took using my digital camera that lasts about 2 min. Maybe I could email it to someone and they can post it up? I am at the firestation till morning and dont have access to it.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 24, 2007 - 01:41am PT
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This thread was before my time, but I should chip in.
Many years ago, I worked several summers in the bush in northern B.C., doing geological exploration. They have explosives in some camps, for seismic work. All very carefully controlled, of course. However, one thing about explosives is that they're not really returnable, for obvious reasons. So if you have some left over at the end of the season, you have to dispose of it. Responsible people of course find some barren place where it can be set off, and just make a hole in the ground. I've heard - apocrypha - of a few camps where, because they wouldn't be coming back the next season, they blew up the outhouse instead. I believe it involves lowering the charge into the hole, for maximum effect.
There's also a book by Ian McNaught-Davis, called Red Peak. About a joint British-Soviet expedition to the Pamir in 1962. At that time pressurized fuel cylinders were a new thing, and to the deprived Soviets a new universe. There were quite a lot left over at the end of the expedition, which the British wanted to trade or barter with the Russians. The Russians figured that if they just waited, the British would leave them anyway, and they'd get them for free. So the British started a big fire on one side of a large rock. They sat on the other side with boxes of cylinders, throwing them over the top and waiting for the explosion.
That might be described as a high pressure sales technique.
A friend in camp once on a rainy day emerged from his tent to fire up the stove. He dropped his lighter in a puddle, after starting the stove, and after shaking off the water, put it down by the stove to dry. A few minutes later it took off like a tiny rocket, whizzing about camp.
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mingus
Trad climber
Grand Junction, Colorado
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Aug 25, 2007 - 07:29pm PT
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I'm impressed by such creative and inspired stories of things that go-boom. I worked 11 years as a ski patroller, and you never get over the thrill of a good avalanche control morning. It is sort of the yin and yang of stress's -- like weird hours and the thought of blowing yourself up, or hoping your partner doesn't get buried...and the absolute thrill of putting a shot in the 'sweet spot' that makes an entire basin run.
But since we are relating different styles of explosion, there is one that is simple if you know a friend in the ski industry.
It was nearly midnight at Crystal Mountain, Washington. We hadn't seen the sun for weeks, but it was the New Year's torch parade where everyone burns holes in their clothing as they ski from the top to the base with flares. I had the priveledge of being with a trio of friends that were erecting a tripod of bamboo poles to set a twenty pound bag of fertilizer on. Working by headlight, everything was put in a safe zone, because this was part of the evenings celebrations. I had no idea how big this was going to be, but all you need is a two pound hand charge with extra long det-cord so you can get far enough away...and that little two pound charge connected to a large bag of fertilizer, in the middle of a Cascade winter night is as much fun as you are going to have for a couple of decades. It explodes laterally hundreds of feet. My co-workers were closer, and I saw them sillouetted by the flames with their arms outstreched....very cool and very crazy!!
A Bic-in-the-fire is fun, but never do this anywere without having all humans and animals at a great distance.
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CAMNOTCLIMB
Trad climber
novato ca
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Aug 25, 2007 - 07:38pm PT
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A few years ago, ok about 20 years, sitting around a campfire in TM, the "bic in the fire" was really a GAZ fuel can. Before you could say boom climbers were running for cover. How many climbers can hide behind a skinny tree? About five. I was young and fast back then and I was the third person seeking shelter behind that tree. The explosion was a dud but the risk is to great to play macho.
Brian
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Robb
Social climber
Under a Big Sky
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Aug 26, 2007 - 12:46am PT
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"Son, I just have one word for you"
"What's that sir?"
"Thermite".............
the script to the real Graduate!
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Aug 26, 2007 - 01:53am PT
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Mike Kennedy and I went in to K2 Basecamp back in 1979 to try a climb on nearby Skyang Kangri. We had about 15 porters and really weren't well provisioned for a couple of months in the Karakorum. To our delight and horror, however, we discovered a gigantic dump of garbage mixed with usable stores of food, fuel, various items of gear, used condoms, panties and so on. This pile was left by a French expedition the previous year that had employed 1,500 porters to carry in all the crap.
Anyway, our stay was made much more pleasant in some ways by exotic canned fois-gras, marmalades , etc. Apropros of this thread, our kitchen shack was turned into a multi-stove near commercial-grade kitchen by dint of some large multi burner stoves and the five-gallon cannisters to fuel them.
When we were finished with our epic on Skyang Kangri, there were still many of these full fuel bottles left, along with tons of French garbage. Michael and I did our best to pile up and set the garbage alight and did succeed in getting a roaring trashfire going before following the small group of porters who were carrying our gear out, down the glacier.
Just for fun, our last addition to the fire was five of the large fuel containers. We chucked them into the flames and ran like hell, giggling like schoolboys. We stopped after five minutes or so and waited expectantly for the big bangs, which never came. Finally, we decided the fire must somehow have gone out. We shrugged our shoulders in mild disappointment, and started the long trek out to Skardu. An hour later though, our attention was attracted to the first of five, fairly closely spaced, distant muffulled booms.
This somehow made the remainder of our walk just a little more pleasant!
-Jello
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jstan
climber
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Aug 26, 2007 - 08:38am PT
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After reading the above I realize how lucky I was to have had a boring childhood. While dynamiting rocks one day my dad gave me the job of driving the 42 Dodge further away from the planned explosion. I was only eight or nine at the time and as I had not yet got the hang of driving, I left the emergency brake on. By the time I got to the far end of the field smoke was pouring out from underneath the car and my father was running toward me yelling at the top of his lungs. I think it was at that point I began to distrust his judgment. There were 100 sticks of dynamite in the seat right behind me. Any reasonable person would have been running away.
Since I have already told the cow sh#t story once there is no need to go into that little affair.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Aug 26, 2007 - 11:30am PT
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Many years ago a caver friend told of an earthquake in the Appalachians that measured 4.0 on the Richter. He said the quake was manmade. Something about a deep mine and 1500lbs. of anfo.
The fed has been keeping an eye on cavers for sometime now. With threads like this....welcome to the club!!:)
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Aug 26, 2007 - 12:40pm PT
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Years ago while working as a groundskeeper on a golf course I mowed over a Bic lighter. I was driving one of those full sized tractors with the outrigger mowing discs. All of a sudden there was a tremendous explosion off my left out rigger. Not knowing what happened I stopped the tractor and got down to investigate. Shards of Bic were everywhere. One of the discs was substantially scorched. If that lighter had gone off in a pocket that explosion would have been more than enough to remove body parts. I was very impressed to say the least.
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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Aug 26, 2007 - 01:57pm PT
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My brother-in-law took a butane torch to a bic, in a pie-plate, in his basement, one bored-off-his-ass evening. He was wearing glasses, and so only lost his eyebrows.
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Aug 26, 2007 - 02:41pm PT
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Cuckawalla
Trad climber
Grand Junction, CO
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Aug 26, 2007 - 07:24pm PT
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fun around the fire:
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Cuckawalla
Trad climber
Grand Junction, CO
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Aug 26, 2007 - 07:24pm PT
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Grease Bomb Deuce?
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Aug 26, 2007 - 11:21pm PT
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yep, nice big #10 can full of two weeks of bacon grease, heated to near boiling, then a cup of cold water (tied to a 12 foot oar) poured into it.
Looks like the next photo, the fellow close to the flame didn't fare so well.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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What was that guy's name who showed us the "Can of Corn" trick at the Needles??
Now that is some serious fun, although we used up all our canned food...
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Bump for chaos.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Kind of on topic. The main tank of the US army in World War II was the Sherman. It was somewhat inferior in armour and firepower to what the Germans had, but far more numerous. One of the nicknames they had for it - military black humour - was the "Ronson". Because they were always being lit up.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Anders: Re your comment on the Sherman tank "brewing up."
I recall that the Americans loaned a lot of Sherman tanks to the Brits.
The Germans also then referred to the Sherman tank as the: "Tommy Cooker."
My memory is: the U.S. could produce Sherman tanks and trained crews faster than the Germans could destroy a tank, that was not "state of the art," in the last year of WWII.
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