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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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They either need to either hire or sellout to someone that knows something about manufacturing at this point. Just got through looking at my hybrid sets close and noticed the two red/yellows have entirely different axle diameters (one has the same axle as the blue/black), cam axle hole centering varies [slightly] between the pair across all four sizes, and the actual plan/finished shape of the cam lobes varies a bit between the pair also across all four sizes. Definitely a craft/artisan operation versus a professional manufacturing one. I think Dave should let someone adopt him...
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dmitry
Trad climber
Chita, Russia
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Oh man..., I had dismissed this thread the first go around, but this really is too much.
I have taken pretty long falls on my old set of aliens, to the point that I have recently had to replace the red.
I guess I'll have to compare my newer aliens to the old ones...
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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"BD do a product recall"
Now that's funny! It would be become a previous model that they no longer support, like black #4 camalots.
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Binks
Social climber
i am of the universe and you know what it's worth.
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[edit]
You know this is serious sh#t. It's now not just the ranges and axles as mentioned here but that other thread linked from rc.n00b shows a total cam failure from a small fall on a new orange. WTF is going on at CCH? The number of people who depend on these things for their lives is huge. I won't buy another alien until CCH takes action on this. Nobody should be buying these cams right now, and perhaps if CCH does not take action, climbers should take the issue to the local gear shops.
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WBraun
climber
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Did their crimp machine go out of calibration accidentally and they were unaware of it during a production run?
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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pretty sure there isn't a crimp on that joint, werner. they use a sliver sodder(sp?) looks nice, but there's a reason other manufactures stopped using them in the head units. bomber when properly made. problem is, when they're incorrectly made they hold about 30 lbs and look just like the good ones. crimps/swages you can at least measure and get a reasonable estimate of material displaced.
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Gene
climber
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There seem to be two issues with the aliens. The first is the misplaced axle, while the other is a weak connection where the cable attaches above the plate that hold the wires to the cam lobes. Based on what I gather so far, the problems are not related. Is it the consensus that these problems have only been found in the orange aliens?
I just checked my two orange aliens. One has an opaque orange plastic clip-in tube with a red sling. The other “orange” one uses semi-transparent RED plastic tubing material with a red sling. The former is marked 0501; the latter 0902, which I take to be month and year of manufacture.
Anybody have the numeric codes on aliens that have failed?
Thanks.
Gene
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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The orange that failed had been bought like a week before, so unless it sat in the drawer at REI for a while it was probably recently made. (BTW, the stock drawers below the glass cases where they keep the cams at REI are like limbo for aliens, there must be hundreds of them squirreled away at REI's around the country.)
I used to defend CCH against allegations of too much unspecified fvckness in their workmanship, but this is getting to be troubling. If nothing else, all new cams are getting aggressively bounce tested before I leave the ground from here on out. Probably should have been doing this anyway, but I've been lazy and thinking I can tell a dud by looking at it.
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yo
climber
NOT Fresno
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I just peed down my leg...
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Howie
Trad climber
Calgary, Alberta
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To control the quality aspects of producing climbing equipment is not a hugely difficult science.
We are, when all said and done, dealing with lives here. If the quality control aspects of producing aliens goes unchecked there could possibly be serious consequences.
I do not know the guy making aliens but I ask him to instigate an immediate recall and commence a system of quality control and testing of his equipment.
I do not believe I am close enough to be of help to him, unfortuately.
Howie.
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Here's the email I just sent to cch@aliencamsbycch.com
Dear Folks -
I've been using aliens for many years now. They are an essential part of my rack, and I love them. I've taken several falls on them and have never been disappointed by their performance.
However, I've recently read a few things which make me wonder if I should ever buy any more aliens. These two threads cause me great concern about your quality control:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=104150&postdays=0&postorder=asc&topic_view=&start=0http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=105618&f=0&b=0
I'm also very concerned that despite these reports, there's been no recall so far as I'm aware, in fact no response at all to the climbing community. These problems (especially the first one!) could easily result in someone dying, and it makes it highly unlikely that I will ever buy another alien until I hear that these issues have been resolved and any potentially defective items recalled.
An (up until now) very happy customer,
Forest Hill
Tucson, AZ
520-360-6700
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hardman
Trad climber
the valley
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cold solder joint.
use induction heating and you find a dependable, repeatable, & uniform heating process. CCH uses a flame torch which is neither of the above.
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
pitch above you
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Forest -
Nice effort. Let's hope they respond to your letter. But I'm not gonna hold my breath. They never had a word to say either publically (obviously) or privately when I sent a similar note to them the first time around for this thread. I figured I'd hear from them in a normal climbing slacker time frame of a week or two... but no dice.
After they didn't respond at all to me I've lost confidence in their ability to deliver. My lack of confidence is based more on their lack of response to the obvious issues than to the technical problems in the first place. I could more easily accept that some new trainee (I hope) bungled a few orange pieces if the company woke up and took all reasonable precautions to make sure nobody paid in flesh for the mistake. Of course I'd also expect them to overhaul their QC program going forward to make sure bad pieces didn't get to shelves in the future.
--->bob
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Well, CCH has responded. I can't say I'm very impressed. It doesn't exactly instill much confidence in their product or testing procedures.
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
pitch above you
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Post it up... enquiring minds and all that!
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Loom
climber
167 stinking feet above sea level : (
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bump
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Cloudraker posted this in another thread, but it's here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/104279
"The Silver brazed connections on Aliens are made by experienced ,skilled people who take great care in the quality of the braze. The accusations being made on this site are quite serious .
An examination by a certified metallurgical lab on the device in question is necessary in order to prove or disprove the claims made regarding alleged failure of the brazed connection. Without an actual report by a lab we will assume this is a staged hoax.
The cable on a 1.5 orange alien will hold over 3500 pounds, far more force than a falling climber could ever generate. When tested on a machine the cable will break ,not pull out of the cable eye.
David Waggoner at CCH"
He doesn't even address the observation made by many that it doesn't appear to have been the cable, but rather the joint, that failed.
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