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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Dec 29, 2009 - 11:53am PT
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Steve,
Waugh and I started climbing together and still climb together regularly. I believe his ascent was the 4th and was around Labor Day, so late summer not fall. We had done lots of hard knobs all summer (Alien, Mystery Acheivement, etc.) so he was well tuned.
Jan McCollum
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 29, 2009 - 01:30pm PT
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And the Iron Monkey?
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FTOR
Sport climber
CA
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Dec 29, 2009 - 03:08pm PT
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Funny, my memory has always been that I did it in '85 with you Scott, not too long after your ascent. Lead the 3 pitches without falls, you did the 4th.
I did go up there after the attempt by Gullich and Renault with Nelson but we also failed in our bid for the coveted second, though Alan's story as to what went down up there was more fiction than fact. I took the big fall on the second pitch after breaking a knob and that was it for me, wigged. Prior to that we did pull off the second of You Asked for It. That was '83.
Trained hard for two seasons with the goal of doing that route, and now it seems I should have also considered selecting a partner willing to recognize my accomplishment some 20+ years out as well. But really, it was another lifetime ago. When it comes down to it, getting John's nod in the parking lot afterwards has always been and will be enough acknowledgement for me.
Good luck with the list Steve.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Dec 29, 2009 - 04:40pm PT
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Were the ascents by Griffith, Cosgrove, Moffat, Waugh, and Oravetz all in 1984?
(In same summer, but after Smith?)
Or were some in 1984 and some in 1985?
What month for the ascents by Griffith and Cosgrove? We have the month for Waugh's ascent (end of August).
Here is a rough list from these 2 threads:
year,month,day,ascent#,,,
1981,8,,1,John Bachar,Dave Yerian,"first ascent, over 3 days, no falls or hangs other than to place 4 of the bolts from hooks"
1982,,,attempt,Wolfgang Gullich,Thierry Renault,"Gullich fell 30' on p1, Renault fell 30' and 60' on p2"
1982,,,attempt,Alan Nelson,Rob Oravetz,"Oravetz fell on p2, ""Path of the Master"" article"
1983,,,2,Steve Schneider,Scott Frye,"Schneider led all pitches, no falls"
1984,,,3,Kurt Smith,Ed Barry,"Barry fell on p2, then went back up and led it"
1984?,,,4,Christian Griffith,Tim Wagner,no falls
1984?,,,5,Scott Cosgrove,,"1 week after Griffith, no falls"
1984?,,,,Jerry Moffat,John Bachar,"Moffat took a 15 meter fall, according to Gullich's book"
1984?,8,30,4?,Mike Waugh,Darryl Nakahira,"Waugh has done this route 5 times. Cosgrove recalls Waugh's first time was a couple of years later, but might be one of his later times?"
1985?,,,,Rob Oravetz,Scott Cosgrove,not long after Cosgrove's first time
1985,7?,,,Todd Worsfold,,"no falls, early summer"
198?,,,attempt,Tom Higgins,(rope solo),"backed off of p2, was using Jumar self belay"
198?,,,,Wolfgang Gullich,Heinz Zak,"Gullich led p1 w/ no pro, swung leads, no falls this time"
1986,,,,Dave Shultz,Al Swanson,with Greg Epperson taking photos
1988,,,,Lance Bateman,Dave Bell,"Bateman fell 50' on p2"
[edited]
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Dec 29, 2009 - 05:23pm PT
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If the climbing is "only" 5.11, why did both Gullich and Renault fall on their attempt?
Broken knobs?
Otherwise, I can't fathom why such good climbers would fall on what, to them, must have been moderate terrain (just based on the numbers).
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Dec 29, 2009 - 05:27pm PT
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Well Mr. gym climber, have you ever tried standing on little tiny knobs when out 30 feet from your last bolt and you have been hanging on and standing on tiny knobs for 20 minutes already? And it is vert to overhanging...
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Dec 29, 2009 - 05:41pm PT
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Well Mr. gym climber, . . .
No, I haven't tried the route or the equivalent.
But I wasn't talking about me, I was talking about Gullich, the first guy to climb 5.14 etc. etc.
I don't think he was someone who would get overly tired just becasue the route is slightly overhanging or you need to stand on some small holds.
I'm not a B/Y level climber but you take your condescending attitude and shove it, seeing as how your "answer" (ever so slightly steep and some small holds) in NO WAY addresses my question: why did 2 top level climbers fall on what is supposedly mid-level 5.11.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 29, 2009 - 05:50pm PT
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The Nature of the climb, it seems to take a wider skill set...
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Dec 29, 2009 - 05:57pm PT
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Waugh is THE MAN!! 5 times??? Hats of Mike.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 29, 2009 - 06:07pm PT
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didn't alan nelson go back at some point and do it? maybe with peter siri?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Dec 29, 2009 - 06:13pm PT
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Jaybro: yes, that's what I was getting at and hoping that someone more knowledgeable than my humble, gym-climbing self could run with.
If I was on a top rope, being a 5.11 gym climber and all, I expect it would be no problem? Or are the ratings there much harder or something?
By today's standards, 5.11 seems pretty easy.
(I do not mean to take away from the accomplishments of those who have led the runout pitches: I understand that requires a level of virtuosity and daring that few people, even now, have. And I'm not one of those people.)
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 29, 2009 - 06:23pm PT
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By today's standards, 5.11 seems pretty easy.
That depends on an awful lot of factors.
I can tell you from personal experience that being out on the lead away from gear is a significant factor.
It's not easy, no matter what day it is.
Just my two cents.....
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2009 - 07:22pm PT
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talked with coz today in person, he seems pretty sure about the first five ascents. it seems like everybody and their mother did it in 84/85. unless some people can break out specific dates, i'm inclined to go with scott's memory for the first five, with a virtual free for all for the next five.
blahblah...to answer you question. yeah, the ratings are sandbag. first pitch has a real hard move past the second bolt, and could easily go for a 5.12 rating here. the second pitch is 5.11+, sure no big deal for a top level climber, but the routefinding is 5.13. to toproute the second pitch, with chalk on the holds, going the right way, spending minimal time on it, no big deal. but leading the thing, climbing up, down, sideways, maybe hanging on too hard because the whipper is ever present, it is hard to make it 5.11. it'as only 5.11+ if you go the right way. and wolfie was not used to knob climbing, he was more of a redpointer than an onsighter, and it's tough trusting that knob climbing if you have not put the time in.
i led every pitch no falls on the second ascent, can't remember if frye fell or not.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Dec 29, 2009 - 08:25pm PT
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Great post, Steve. I have wondered about the specific issues of leading BY, beyond the runouts.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 29, 2009 - 08:51pm PT
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Great thread! I get it, how if you know EXACTLY where to climb, and precisely which knobs to grab, it might "only" be 5.11. But having to figure it out on lead, onsight, would make it hugely harder as you'd have to suss the moves, which wouldn't be all tick-marked with chalk.
How are the bolts these days? Does the route get climbed very often? On-sighted? Have any original knobs broken, rendering it harder these days?
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Dec 30, 2009 - 12:17am PT
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So who has the oldest person ascent on this now? I just might be on the thing next summer. My main climbing partner has the itch and is certainly capable.
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socalbolter
Sport climber
Silverado, CA
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Dec 30, 2009 - 12:23am PT
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Also curious as to how often it gets done these days. My ascent was in '94 or '95 and at that time it was still somewhat uncommon. It seems though in recent years I hear a lot more about the route and was wondering if that was indicative of it getting more ascents?
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2009 - 06:26pm PT
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i think the bachar yerian probably sees one or two ascents a year on average, it is definitely a rare day to see a party on it, and if you do, it's well worth the hike to see the show.
bachar and schultz replaced the bolts on the same day i replaced the bolts on slider banger, so both routes have good bolts now.
met with scott burk for the first time in years last night at his folks home in pinole. he did the b and y 5 times(tied with mike waugh i believe) from 90 to 94. in the last week i have seen burk, coz and kurt smith. we were all on the tm rescue team in the 80's and bachar was, and is, our total hero.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 30, 2009 - 06:32pm PT
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Thanks, Steve. Did you see Leo (Scott's father)? A friend from the FaceLift, though he missed 2009 due to back trouble. Hope he's well.
Anders
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Brian Biega
climber
Truckee, CA
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Dec 30, 2009 - 06:35pm PT
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Scott and I climbed the B&Y around 97 or 98. My first time on the route, Scott's 7th. I led the 1st pitch (another story) and Scott led the 2nd and 3rd then we rapped per the Camanders request. We then raced to the Valley and stared up the Nose hoping to complete both routes in a day.
MyMyMy...
Brian
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