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Brian
climber
California
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Dec 19, 2009 - 08:28pm PT
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Werner,
Thanks. I'll definitely keep an eye on this.
I'm hoping that running just a few laps a day when I can't get a partner will mean only running laps on ropes that remain relatively dry. If things get wet or icy, I'll just call it a day.
Brian
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 19, 2009 - 10:17pm PT
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Holy frig, Prod - throw away that POS Tibloc before you end up dead! You're too valuable as a Voice of Reason on this forum...
Anyone use a Petzl Shunt or Gibbs ascender? Teeth are kinda scary, although the double Mini-Trax setup above is bomber.
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Hypercanary
Sport climber
Noank, Ct
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Oct 18, 2010 - 10:11pm PT
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What is the current wisdom on static vs dynamic ropes when soloing with the mini traxion? Also, why not back it up with a loose prusik above the device?
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Ben909
Trad climber
toronto
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Nov 26, 2010 - 12:07pm PT
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The mini-trax is a prussik minding pulley in this case, just gotta leave the prussik loose! Works fine.
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Disaster Master
Social climber
Born in So-Cal, left my soul in far Nor-Cal.
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Nov 29, 2010 - 07:22am PT
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Has anyone used the Ushba Basic ascender instead? I have for years.
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The Guy
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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Nov 30, 2010 - 05:16am PT
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I've been using the Petzl Shunt for just Solo TR. I like that it has no teeth. You do have to slide it along on short routes. I was thinking about or actually was going to go out and buy a MT after all the recent posts about it being "the" device to use for solo TR. After this post I'm just gonna stick with my Shunt. I always half the rope and anchor at the middle. Tie backup loops on one strand and slide the shunt along on the other.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Nov 30, 2010 - 07:02am PT
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I read somewhere that a shunt is not advised when using a single line (maybe the Petzl instructions, don't remember). Only one side of the bar will squeeze the rope, because the other side will be empty. This will create leverage on the attachment bar when you weight the shunt.
I have both a shunt and 2 minitraxions. The 2 minitraxions feel a lot more safe to me.
I also once used a tibloc as a backup. It's not a nice thing to do to your rope if you're going to be falling a bit - it slides a little and then bites hard. Poor sheath!
Of course, we're all going to die!
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duncan
climber
London, UK
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Nov 30, 2010 - 08:56am PT
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Shunts are popular in the UK, where solo-TRing a route is often called "shunting". The biggest problem in their use seems to be resisting the strong instinct to hold onto the device when you fall (watch the rope-grabbing during falls in any sport-climbing video, usually by people who have taken 100s of falls) with the risk of disengaging the cam.
The Ushba basic is similar to the Rocker (various manufacturers) which I use. This has the advantage of a smooth cam and seems harder to accidentally lock open than some other designs. There is still plenty of potential for human screw-up in even the 'safest' device though. Perhaps a second, different, device increases the margin of safety, perhaps it just adds complexity and indirectly increases risk.
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crazy horse
Trad climber
seattle, wa
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does anybody use gri gri's for solo top rope belays these days? I feel like i'm missing something in that i have no idea why any of you are using 1 or 2 mini-traxions for a solo-TR belay. is the mini-traxion really even a belay device? i would be wary of putting even a slight dynamic load on these things.
http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technical-notice/Pro/P07%20MINITRAXION%20P07600-F.pdf
this shows the breaking load limit on the configuration above as 4-6.6 kN for the top mini traxion, and if the bottom one is really a back up ideally it would weight the rope right under the top one equally to minimize any dynamic loading should the top one break. Which to me means that the bottom mini-traxion, if minimizing the possibility of having to catch a dynamic load would ideally be positioned right below the top one and possibly subject to the same 4-6.6 kN force and perhaps a bit more if it had to 'catch' your fall after the top one broke. You might decelerate after the top one broke but to what 2-4kN? do you really want to chance it? it sounds like you're talking about the possibility of basically taking a daisy chain fall onto a pair of jumars...you'd never want to do that right?
https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/journal/climb/qclab/qc-lab-girth-hitching-a-stopper
girth hitching a stopper cable to a bolt hanger failed at close to or above the same values as the top mini traxion according to Petzl's published manual for the device.
unless you can guarantee that there will be absolutely no slack in the system while you're climbing with both hands on the rock (using any of the devices mentioned), i would use some stubby screamers in that connection from the device to the belay loop and ditch the home made chest harness. That thing, should you have to (heaven forbid) put some significant weight on it after an incapacitating accident will cut your circulation off so badly it can lead to serious medical complications should you remain suspended for an extended period of time before a rescue could occur.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/2002/crr02451.pdf
it looks like if someone a bit bigger than you 'CF' were to use that exact chest harness setup the piece of blue webbing could pinch your ribs really badly should the blue webbing be pulled taut. to your credit it looks like you've got the blue sling slack enough that it won't happen and your belay biner or belay loop would have to fail for that to happen, but do you really think that's a possibility? if you do think that's a possibility, are you really ready to take that force on that flossy chest harness? Sorry bro, that sounds extremely painful, and remote. I agree with Tork, I don't see the need for the chest harness back up. is the chest harness to keep you upright in case you loose your footing? does it work well for that?
sorry if this sounds like a personal attack folks. it's not meant to be. I really just want everyone to be safe. Any possibility, no matter how minor, of taking a fall onto an ascender/hauling device (especially one with teeth) sounds so sketchy to me.
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WBraun
climber
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gri gri's for solo top rope belays
It will work, but it's a stupid device for that application.
Go ahead and try it and you'll see why.
Also you sound like a paranoid person with no real world experience with this stuff and just wrestling this stuff around in your head.
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crazy horse
Trad climber
seattle, wa
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Thanks Werner, are you going to talk about the concept at all, or just try to convince everyone on Supertopo that I'm paranoid and inexperienced?
i've used a gri-gri for a solo top rope belay probably 50 times with no issues. Why don't you break it down for me and everyone else why i would realize it's a stupid device for the application if i had the real world experience you apparently have. I've also used it on a roped solo lead belay (as one would a silent partner) many times, even put in FA's that way. If you're curious about my real world experience, I've been climbing since 1993, I've done el cap a few times, put in ~70 FA's many, solo on a gri-gri from the ground up.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
wussing off the topout on Roadside Attraction
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All that may be true, but you're still pulling off a convincing impression of a paranoid theorist.
Minitraxions work, they're simple, and they're hard to screw up once you get the system down.
On the other hand, the grigri affords one the added workout challenge of pulling rope up every move or two. What's wrong with that?
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WBraun
climber
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pulling rope up every move or two
That will work if you like that, but stupid since there's better a better system.
And crazy horse I said: "you sound like .." I didn't say you were.
A lot of people have this "OMG" the device has "teeth" paranoia when using the device for this type application.
Then they shouldn't use it.
Simple as that.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Well... I've been using a gri gri all summer for solo TR. We did the modification for the easier rope feed and I use a chest harness to keep it aligned. It "tracks" just fine. I don't have to yard on the rope at all once I get a few feet off the ground and it gets some rope weight on it. I can see how un-modified and flopping around the gri-gri might be a bit of a pain in the behind.
I know I know..
Yer
gonna
die!
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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what's the mod?
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Beat me to it while I was taking a pic but here it is again:
Modified gri gri is on the left side.
Hole drilled to allow a small keeper cord to attach to a chest harness.
I also use a steel carabiner when soloing these days after reading a few accident reports about bent/broken biners and I tie tons of back-up knots. I'm climbing stuff that is so incredibly easy I never fall on the thing anyhow.
Edit to add: I haven't actually read any actual reports about a deaths due to this setup... injuries from not tying backups and scary damaged biners... yes... deaths .. no. Any links?
Definitely NOT recommended by the manufacturer.
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obim
Social climber
Austria
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The death mod.
This includes removing a part of the cover sheet as well as drill a hole for a cord to keep it upwards.
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stilltrying
Trad climber
washington indiana
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I have used the gri gri a couple of different ways. Tied off with slings to a tree for soloing on lead - only on climbs I know by heart with little danger of falling - works o.k. but can get you in some interesting situations. I like to hang the gri gri off the top rope anchors, rappel down and then tie into the climber side and pull the brake side as I climb. Easier than having the gri gri on your harness but pretty much limited to vertical routes where there is no interference with the gri gri.
I have an Ushba but have not used it much - seems like a well made piece of gear. Lately I would need a gri gri and an Ushba with two belayers to drag me up a 5.5 :)
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