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Gary Carpenter
climber
SF Bay Area
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 30, 2005 - 01:19am PT
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A recent post by Tom Higgins ("...my embarrassment caused me to make and incessantly use an adjustable, wooden/rubber practice crack nailed to the outside of my home in LA. The crack machine helped me develop technique for Yosemite slots, including the wide part of the Owl.") has sparked my interest in building an adjustable crack machine.
Looking for suggestions/specs. Can't get to the valley often enough to get up to speed on off-width. I'm hoping a crack machine would help develop off-width techinque. Would appreciate any advice.
Thanks
Gary
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spyork
Trad climber
Fremont, CA
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Sep 30, 2005 - 01:53pm PT
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Now you are getting me thinking. I have been watching my local gym get worse and worse (CityBeach Fremont). The guys I climb with are speculating that it won't survive much longer.
The only reason I go to the gym is to keep in shape so I can climb outside. Aesthetically, I don't really like gym climbing, and it is where I have been injuring myself (bouldering). I practice alot on their cracks, wide (fist), narrow hands (for me), and fingers to thin fingers.
If my local gym closes, then I am faced with more than an hour drive to another gym.
Now I am wondering if I can train in my garage and backyard.
Hmmmm.....
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Sep 30, 2005 - 06:33pm PT
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I have one like the one shown in the picture that dimitry linked. Pretty easy to build! Depending on the size of hands it takes it can be wicked hard.
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Nor Cal
Trad climber
San Mateo
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I'd like to find a way to put some quickrete or some other covering over my crack so I dont have to tape or get splinters and have a more rock like feel.
The crack is fully adjustable and can be flared, its 12' tall.
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Lg
Trad climber
NorCaL
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hmm, can't see the quick rete adhering to the wood without tacking some wire down first, maybe? Or, glue some coarse grit sandpaper on the insides.
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Fingerlocks
Trad climber
where the climbin's good
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I've made these before and found two things helped. First, make it deeper by using a 2x8. Second, stiffen it up by putting a 2x4 facing on it to make each side an "L" section. You can fix those mini-foot chip holds to the facing if you want to add variety.
Also, instead of a single bolt in the middle of the board (as per your photo), put in pairs of bolts with one at the front and the other at the back. This lets you flare the crack.
For OW, I'd probably make plywood frames. Even just a 16" depth would let you throw an elbow in. Doing 24" might be better.
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Nor Cal
Trad climber
San Mateo
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Its hard to tell in the photo but the bolts are stagered and this allows for flaring of the "crack". I took the photo of the bolt to show how it can be adjusted by moving the "floating" board on the bolts. I dont have a bolt on the top of the crack and this is something I need to add as the top flexes, otherwise its quite solid. Also I can change the angle of the entire wall from less than vertical to slightly overhanging. I must say that the spiders use the wall more than I do..
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Fingerlocks
Trad climber
where the climbin's good
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You don't find that the board bows out under the pressure of a hand jam?
Being able to change the angle of the whole rig is good. I only built one that was set up that way, but it got used a lot more than the others. It was for overhanging hands all the way to a full roof. Good pump.
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Nor Cal
Trad climber
San Mateo
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the board may bow out a little but nothing that causes problems. I've got bolts every few feet. The top is the only problem.
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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I've coated my cracks with elastomeric deck coatings and sand. I had material left over from jobs. You can buy elastomeric paint at any paint store. It'll be a little thinner but will work fine.
One coat paint as a primer- or use a primer. Second coat of paint. While it is still wet cast 60 mesh sand (or smaller if you can find it, maybe even cornmeal) to saturation. In other words throw a lot of sand onto it. It helps if you have the wood lieing flat. After it dries brush as much sand off as you can and put a third coat of paint. At this point it may be too rough so what I did was sand it down a bit and then put one final coat. I did the same thing on my adj. chimney.
Buy a quart of paint and experiment.
Zander
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poop*ghost
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Would grip tape for skateboards work? It may be almost too gritty.
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Fingerlocks
Trad climber
where the climbin's good
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We did that skateboard tape once. It worked, but it is pretty grippy. Nice for overhanging flares.
Something like what Zander did is better.
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Gary Carpenter
climber
SF Bay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 17, 2005 - 03:51pm PT
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Thanks for the tips and encouragement guys. I took Radicals advice to heart and didn’t procrastinate, just got with it and I think we have a very workable OW crack machine.
I took Fingerlocks suggestion and used 24 inch plywood panels. Split two 4x8 sheets of ½” OSB lengthwise and stiffened them with paired 2x4’s. Used ½” all-thread rod to provide adjustable struts.
Here are some photos (hope they work, this is my first time posting a photo).
The off width crack machine. 16 feet high 24 inches wide.
Super Topo’s own Dr. Ed Hartouni in action! (He doesn’t even remotely resemble the Off Width Angel)
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 17, 2005 - 04:10pm PT
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you forgot to say what paint you used to give it a bit of friction...
...and only a little bit at that (but much better than before you painted it!).
My eyes are closed because I am trying to imagine myself doing it effortlessly...
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scuffy b
climber
S Cruz
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Nov 17, 2005 - 04:26pm PT
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Don't the bolts get in the way? Have you tried it at many
different widths?
sm
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Nov 17, 2005 - 05:30pm PT
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This is what I have learned from making a couple of crack machines.
I use either 2x10 or 2x12. 3/8" barstock over drill the holes just a bit for the barstock. Also offset the holes by about 5" so that when the rig is setup with about a 20 degree angle the bars are in a vertical line. I have found that if the pairs are about 3' apart the machine does not expand to much. I like the pais to be vertical so if you fall out you tend not to hit as much. Making the machine overhang abit also keeps you from hitting the barstock on the way down.
Grit helps prevent splinters. I use verithane and grit from Orchard. After adding grit put on another couple of coats and sand just a bit between coats.
put a piece of surgical tubing over the barstock ends.
I used a belt sander to round the edges and to make the crack vary in size a bit. This helps when making it real thin. A wood rasp would save your sander a bit.
I like to use 2 nuts on each side of one board and keep those holes tight. Use two wing nuts on the other board and make those holes bigger. Also use larger washers on that board
Most important
#1 Don't tell the guy at the hardware store or lumber yard you building a "Crack Machine".
#2 do not name your cat Crack Kitty.
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Gary Carpenter
climber
SF Bay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 17, 2005 - 06:05pm PT
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Ed: The paint is Gliddens Deck Paint with a double dose of the slip resistant additive that Home Depot sells.
Scruffy: The bolts (all-thread bars) are easy to avoid. They are spaced 4’ on center vertically and are set-back 12” from the front edge. Since it’s set up as an off-width and not a chimney the climbing is done mostly on the front half of the panel. I currently have it set up to model the top of Sacherer Cracker. It is about 5” wide at the base and increases to about 12” wide at the top.
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scuffy b
climber
S Cruz
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Nov 17, 2005 - 07:07pm PT
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Thanks. I wondered because when I do 6" (at least in a corner)
my knee goes in 14", and I certainly don't have long legs.
My nickname (no R) has more to do with scabs and bruises than
with grooming or dress.
Can you position your machine to simulate corners or is it always
straight in?
sm
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Nov 17, 2005 - 07:10pm PT
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Very Cool!
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Bryce Breslin
climber
Oakland, California
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Nov 17, 2005 - 07:24pm PT
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What's your setup at the base? How much play do you get in the whole system when thrashing up? Could you estimate +/- total cost?
Cool stuff - caught my attention.
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Fingerlocks
Trad climber
where the climbin's good
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Nov 17, 2005 - 07:31pm PT
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Gary,
Very cool.
So do you want to do Blind Faith next year?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 17, 2005 - 07:42pm PT
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The crack machine is very solid, in terms of sway there is none (at least nothing perceptable). The only problem I have is that I can flex the pannel if my foot is in the "center" of the framing where there are no 2x4 support... but I figure that makes me use the outside more, which is good.
It does feel like you've been working offwidth out doors... John the gym climber was utterly wrecked last week in three laps (he thought we would do one, but I felt really frisky... and he couldn't say no).
Gary is da man!
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Gary Carpenter
climber
SF Bay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 17, 2005 - 11:48pm PT
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Scruffy: Can’t really make a corner but by adjusting the bolts you could make it flare some. Haven’t tried it yet but it should work. Just adjust the front bolt longer than the rear.
Bryce: It’s just sitting on a couple of 4”x4 . The stability comes from: (1) bolting the right side to the retaining wall and to the first floor rafter and (2) two guy wires with turnbuckles that are anchored to the retaining wall soldier beams (you can see one in the first photo). Total cost about $200 maybe a little more. About the cost of a good rope.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Nov 18, 2005 - 12:42am PT
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Gary,
Just go bouldering at Parking Lot rock at Castle Rock State Park. The offwidth between the uphill side boulder and the main formation make an offwidth.
Send it!!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Nov 18, 2005 - 01:07am PT
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"I thought about building a "home gym" also... then remembered where I live................ "
Name dropper.
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Don't let go
Trad climber
Yorba Linda, CA
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I am working on building a climbing wall. Can I get some beta on what type of plywood to use. I know it should be 3/4 inch but what type of plywood? I want to use it out doors (it is designed to be portable,) and I don't know what paint to use to protect it. Do I need paint? What kind? Are the oil based paints too slippery? I saw sand that can be added to paint to add texture. Any thoughts on getting texture short of buying Metolius' textured paint?
btw, inexpensive is good but not necessary.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Concrete sticks like magic to untreated lumber. You could use some fine sand and mason mix (cement and coarse sand) to hand-swab whatever contour you wanted. It has to cure for a week, or so. After it cures, you can wash it down with weak vinegar water to neutralize the pH. Or just let the rain do it.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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How well have your outdoor home walls/crack machines stood up to the elements?
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Gary Carpenter
climber
SF Bay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2006 - 02:53pm PT
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Melissa:
Good question and one that I am in the process of evaluating right now whether I like it or not (rain, rain and more rain). I built the crack machine using ½-inch OSB sheathing. I used this because it had a rougher finish than plywood, was readily available, reportedly was a bit more water resistant than sheathing grade plywood, and was inexpensive (no comments Ed). The surface has some roughness and gives it better friction but it does wear noticeably with use. I painted it with a deck paint (one coat). After the first series of rains (December) I noted some swelling indicating that the sheathing was sucking up water. Seemed to be OK after it dried out. I gave it another coat of paint to try to seal it up and give it a little more friction (slip resistant additive in the paint).
It looks OK but we really haven’t had a dry Wednesday (OW night for the Livermore crew) in the last month to try it out.
I would think that 2”x12” and other dimensional lumber would hold up well. Exterior grade plywood should also work well as it uses waterproof glue that keeps it from delaminating when wet. I suppose if you really wanted the best you could use Marine grade plywood.
I’ll keep you posted.
Gary
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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OSB is a lousy material. I have installed miles of the stuff and will do so in the future. However, if you support the edges and some in the middle it will work. The edges will pick up moisture and swell so seal the edges with caulk. Just put a big bead down and then spread it with your finger. Then seal everything with elastomeric paint. Get caulk that will bond with the paint. Ask your supplier. CDX plywood sealed as above will work better than OSB IMHO.
Zander
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Gary Carpenter
climber
SF Bay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2006 - 03:58pm PT
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Zander:
Sounds like good advice. As you can tell from the photos the edges are all supported with 2"x4"'s and there are internediate 2x4's at 4-foot intervals. That seems adequate so far but I haven't had Eric on it yet. I'll try some caulk if the OSB survives the rains.
I started building it with some materials I had lying around more as a prototype just to see if my idea would work. It worked and what started out as an experiment turned into a 16-foot off width.
I'm sure I'll have to replace the OSB sooner or later. It will depend on how much use it gets and how long my wife can put up with the eyesore.
Gary
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pazreal
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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If any one else is looking for a crack machine, we are moving out of our house in Truckee in a few weeks and need to get rid of ours. PM if interested or for pics. It is about 16ft tall and full expandble with foot kibs on the front face and all bolted down to a hinged based platform. Could be real nice for someone.
Cheers,
Arthur
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Gary Carpenter
climber
SF Bay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2012 - 01:30pm PT
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Bump for Chris & Guillermo. These guys were doing laps on Ahab Saturday!!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 29, 2012 - 06:56pm PT
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I saw a surface finish for decks that appears to have an abrasive texture at Home Despot. Any comment on this stuff?
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Jonnnyyyzzz
Trad climber
San Diego,CA
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Apr 29, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
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I've built some of these for local gyms. http://cracksystems.com/index.html They are really good cracks and can be changed around. I been thinking of ways to make a simple system that will work for home walls. I think I have it figured out. I sell the full sized towers so please let me know if anyone thinks there gym needs or would like one. If your a real handy person you could figure out how to build something like this on a smaller scale for your home wall.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 30, 2012 - 11:14am PT
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Nice work!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Bump for making crack at home...
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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May 10, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
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bump for pics of home cracks....I've been thinking about making one of these this summer
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Matt M
Trad climber
Alamo City
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May 11, 2012 - 11:01am PT
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I've sketched out a couple of "crack machines" that I hope to incorporate into my kids swing set (HOA might not notice!). It would consist of a "T" with two corner cracks built into the intersection of the "T". You could add an insert to change its size. That gets you corner cracks, then on the other side (Flat top of the "T") I'd add several cracks all next to each other. I think, having done it once before, that adjustable cracks with threaded rods are a PITA and you never adjust them. I'd just make 5-6 cracks of varying sizes net to one another with permanent wood spacers for each size. Now I just need to incorporate the "T" into a Moon Board build and I'm all set...
EDIT: Just saw the post above and see the "T" idea could work! sweet build!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 12, 2012 - 08:44pm PT
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There ain't nothing like the real thing baby, nothing like the real thing...
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briham89
Trad climber
los gatos. ca
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May 12, 2012 - 08:46pm PT
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steve that is awesome!
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
the green triangle, cali
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May 12, 2012 - 08:55pm PT
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^^ epic
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E Robinson
climber
Salinas, CA
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May 13, 2012 - 01:02am PT
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Very cool with the real thing.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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May 13, 2012 - 01:05am PT
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Whoa! That's gotta be hefty....Was that tough to set up, Steve?
It looks awesome.
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Ben Emery
Trad climber
Australia via Bay Area via Australia...
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May 13, 2012 - 06:13am PT
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Wow, that raises the bar a bit...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 13, 2012 - 11:53am PT
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Once the 5"X5"X7' bars are pinned and then glued into the 2x6 mounting boards, it is pretty easy to tip them into place and add the backing board to set the crack width. Installing them in finished space is going to be a bit more complicated.
Definitely not a one person operation! LOL
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Gary Carpenter
climber
SF Bay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
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Very Cool Steve!!
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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May 13, 2012 - 01:51pm PT
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Perhaps these guys were climbers and just wanted some rock closer to home:
Something like this for the backyard with plenty of cracks by setting the stones close together would be great. Place your stones in the same order as they were quarried for best crack fit.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 19, 2012 - 01:31pm PT
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Bump for druids dynos...
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kfox527
Trad climber
Central California
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Here are a few pictures of a crack I built over the weekend. It turned out to be less time consuming than I thought. I used 2x12x20 for the main sides and 22 carriage bolts to hold the boards together. Inside the crack each bolt is threaded through a pre-cut piece of outdoor undergreound electrical conduit. Right now the crack is set at about 2 inches to facilitate teaching my students the fundamentals of crack climbing. It will go from about 6.5 wide down to as small as one might like. I'll try to answer any questions the best I can.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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cool
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CalicoJack
climber
CA
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Mar 12, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
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Hey there,
Just finished building my crack machine over the weekend. Been a fun project that definitely benefited from pics of other folk's projects, and helpful tips from some of the carpenter/engineer types around here.
The crack machine is made up of 12 foot long 2x12's, nit together with 1/2" threaded rods of lengths suitable for adjustment out to about an 8" crack. This contraption is bolted to a support structure composed of two 6x6's, one 16ft the other 10ft, that were sunk 4 ft into the ground, bolted together & cemented in with 360lbs of concrete. For a little extra peace of mind, I tied the support structure back with two 2x4's to a 4ft 4x4, driven 2ft deep & seated with rammed earth.
Anyway, the concrete has had a couple of weeks to cure & we've been having fun on this thing! TRonsighted the first ascent with the crack set to tight #2 camalots (perfect hands for the wife) on Sunday!
Cheers,
Andy
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Some Random Guy
climber
In a chair, drinkin' a beer, watchin' the show
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Mar 13, 2013 - 01:52am PT
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that's cool and all but what about splinters? do you just sand it really well first or cover the insides with something?
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CalicoJack
climber
CA
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Mar 13, 2013 - 01:55am PT
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Yeah- that's an awesome indoor training rig Scrubber! Would be cool to build something on that level of quality, or maybe a 20ft rig outside...
Cheers,
Andy
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westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
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Mar 13, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
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Check it.
Santa's Chimney is adjustable in width and steepness.
In the 5" wide range I think.
The Rack is a horizontal crack that is adjustable in the width. Wide Pony w/Hand/Fist stacking.
Like fun but different.
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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Mar 13, 2013 - 10:53pm PT
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Wow! Serious ingenuity. (And a vehicle outside looking like it misses its garage. :0) )
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Scrubber
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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Mar 13, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
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The one I built has the crack lined with 180 grit cloth-backed sandpaper. We use 6" wide by 100' rolls of it for one of our sanding machines at work. I glued it on with contact cement and wrapped it an inch and a half around the front so that feet wouldn't peel it off. The crack is made from nice flat, good quality fir 2x12's, so two widths of the abrasive was almost a perfect fit after the front wrap. I dulled the paper down with a flat honing stone so it wouldn't just eat your hands. It feels like Indian Creek!
Adjustable angle via aircraft cable and a boat trailer winch:
Adjustable crack size from the front via half of an old bike turning linked gears behind the wall:
The long bike chain runs to a second threaded rod at the top of the wall, keeping the crack paralell as it moves open and closed.
Let me know if you want details on how to build your own.
K
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 13, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
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If you want to shape some boards for jamming, a 7" chain-toothed wheel for a big sidegrinder does the trick as long as you have heavy gloves and the skill.
As long as you stick to a no foot jamming policy plenty of acrylic modified cement products can be used to coat the shaped boards once a proper bonder is applied to the lumber.
Just make sure not to create jams that will keep a finger.
I have some photos if I can find them...
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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Mar 13, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
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Sick!
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nutjob
Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
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Apr 29, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
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Bump for awesome home projects. I've got a big tall space, a small budget, and a gleam in my eye.
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E Robinson
climber
Salinas, CA
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Apr 30, 2013 - 12:13am PT
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Still think Rapidset Mortar Mix and Cement All makes for the best "I can't deal with driving anywhere and just want to relax in the backyard listening to tunes" climbing structures.
E
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Some Random Guy
climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
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Apr 30, 2013 - 11:36pm PT
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that's awesome robinson.
here's my home training setup. it's pretty sweet.
u see that quality craftsmanship!
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E Robinson
climber
Salinas, CA
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Pretty slick handiwork there...
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