Why Girls Go Extreme - well done piece on girls and climbing

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survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Dec 15, 2009 - 02:29pm PT
Turns into a dang bonfire sometimes....

Becky, we can always use new blood around here, but ya gotta be tough.
I've gotten a couple bloody noses here myself.

bvb, yeah me too. I climbed with a pretty hard core gal in the 70's. She was leading 5.10 in no time. We're talking old school trad at Smith Rocks too, not modern clippy clips! She had a few female partners after awhile too. Nobody ever read her name in a mag either.

What the heck was Kim Carrigan's girlfriend's name?
Louise-the-the-hot-babe....or something like that.
That was around 1980 I believe.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Dec 15, 2009 - 02:30pm PT
Tami - I find your comments not worthy of a fellow writer.

Don't sweat it. Tami's no writer. She can't even spell. All she does is draw dumb cartoons about rats. Seriously -- that's what she does. Cartoons about rats! And she thinks she can criticize someone who writes for a national media outlet? Where does she get off doing that?

Well, okay, talking about how Tami gets off is maybe out of line on a thread about how a rat cartoonist has the nerve to say she doesn't like an article about women suddenly starting to climb.

I mean everybody knows women didn't climb until recently, at least not without men along to make sure they didn't hurt themselves. And yet from the tone of her criticism, you'd almost think that Tami believes women did climb on their own before last year. Which is pretty stupid and something only someone who draws dumb cartoons about rats would ever dream up.

veryveryoldman

Social climber
The Bronx
Dec 15, 2009 - 03:41pm PT
Becky-

I reread the thread, and Iím sorry to say, these folks are right after all.

If you would have simply pulled your empty head out of your butt for one second, it might have occurred to you to check with the cartoonist from Canada before producing that piece, and then you would have been informed about her mum pulling down in 1940 and you would have realized that climbing could not POSSIBLY be increasing in popularity among women today. (And you would have worked in a reference or two to extreme childbirth! How could you have left that out??)

Or you could have asked Jaybro, who read a thread one time about chicks on a big wall in the Ď70ís. Or BVB, who had a wife that climbed 5.11. And then you would have realized that chicks didnít start climbing yesterday like you said. (You did say that, right?)

But you couldnít be bothered to do any of that, could you? No, you couldnít. Because youíre a lazy, incompetent, dim-witted, slave to the machine. And you climb too slow. Your writing sucks too.

That hurt your feelings? Suck on it, beotch. Oh, and welcome to supertopo.

-Denis
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 15, 2009 - 03:46pm PT
Or BVB, who had a wife that climbed 5.11.
i said 5.11 - 5.12. and did i mention she looked smokin' hot in lycra? she really did.
veryveryoldman

Social climber
The Bronx
Dec 15, 2009 - 03:48pm PT
BVB-

My bad. Can I get her number?
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Dec 15, 2009 - 03:57pm PT
And David's rite y'know

Well it's true. I am right. I've actually tried to take Tami climbing a couple of times, and the results have been, well, less-than-stellar is maybe the best way to describe it.

One time, even though there were five men along to make sure she didn't screw up, she somehow managed to drop me fifty feet. And when I took her out into the mountains it turned out she couldn't even fasten her crampons on properly and just about killed herself. Fortunately, because of my earlier experience, I had refused to tie the rope on, so at least it would have been only herself she killed, not me too.

So you see? I know something about her. Can't climb safely... Can't spell... but somehow thinks she's entitled to have an opinion on an internet forum.

Rat cartoons. Jeeeezuzz. I'd tell her to go sit in the car, but she'd probably just drink all my whiskey. Again.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 15, 2009 - 04:04pm PT
BVB-

My bad. Can I get her number?

(928) 867-5309. Tell her I said "hi."
veryveryoldman

Social climber
The Bronx
Dec 15, 2009 - 04:36pm PT
BVB-

Ha! Thanks for the number. Don't think I'll really call though. Your ex might want to go climbing, and then my lack of ability would be revealed.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Dec 15, 2009 - 04:43pm PT
Tami, thanks for the note about Louise.
You're right, she was flat out amazing.
Terry

climber
Spokane
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2009 - 02:01pm PT
WOW. Tami, I don't know you but after reading your 'opinions' I'm glad I don't.

You are criticizing a human interest story written to the public in general, not the Alpine Journal. And, while it is apparently not PC for you to admit, the number of ladies climbing HAS increased in recent years.

But Exhibit A of your narrow minded, politically driven/enslaved world view was when you said:

"But that Ms D works for Faux is , IMHO, enough reason to prolly suggest her writing is floridly fluffy and with the brain of a feather duster."

WOW again. Talk about a generalizing, narrow minded, insulting, hypocritical, (need I go on) myopic, idiotic accusation!!

Gonna stop the rant as a number of others have put you in your place whether you want to admit it or not.

Becky, didn't mean to open you up to such crap. Thanks for offering the mainstream a piece that puts women and climbing in a positive light. I hope the Tami's of the world don't make you feel you have to preface your articles with an historical treatise of climbing history, poll all associated climber groups to get their personal opinions and provide an annotated bibliography.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 16, 2009 - 02:18pm PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50U2DXORVCo&feature=related
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 16, 2009 - 02:24pm PT
Thanks for offering the mainstream a piece that puts women and climbing in a positive light.

Personally, I'd prefer that nothing about climbing get offered to the mainstream, EVER. But I'm livin' in the 70's, so there you go.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
Dec 16, 2009 - 02:39pm PT
I'm surprised the article generated so much anomosity, I thought it was fine for a general public piece.

Seems to me there are a lot more women climbers than there used to be and that there are more all women teams than there used to be. I just know that when I was 20 years old and had little else on my mind besides girls and climbing, I didn't run across tons of women climbers (maybe they were avoiding me!). As gyms and sport climbing became more and more common, it seemed more women were climbing.

Also, it seems climbing presents a relatively even playing field for women and men, whether because of biomechanics, culture, or whatever else. I'd be surprised to see a woman competing for and catching waves at a premire reef break packed with snarling locals, but think a woman sending a hard crack in yosemite is normal and relatively common, which is one of the really cool things about our sport. Hill's ascent of the nose was very inspiring to me and influenced how and what I wanted to climb (albeit at much more pedestrian levels)- there are not many sports where a woman's accomplishment has an impact on male and female participants.

Anyway, I don't the article deseved all the negative feedback, but this is tacoland!
dustonian

climber
Foresta
Dec 16, 2009 - 02:40pm PT
I'm with Tami, Stich, & BVB on this one...kinda tired of climbing being wrapped up and marketed into delightful little infotaining tidbits to be consumed and excreted like any other trendy fad to distract people from more troubling realities in the world. It's old news and the crags are already overcrowded as it is. A lot of type A careerists out there climbing these days though....I guess it was inevitable.
J-sheezy

Sport climber
columbus, ohio
Dec 18, 2009 - 10:55am PT
where is T&A @?
susu

Trad climber
East Bay, CA
Dec 18, 2009 - 02:42pm PT
I thought the article was good. Nice footage and photos, too, Becky! Could help lure more women to climbing. I really had to work to understand the criticsm heaped on this article. My experience over the last 15 years is also that there aren't many female climbers climbing outdoors, in particular, climbing trad, though there are more showing up than ever.

Edit: I really find all that's condescending about the article is much of the criticism directed against it.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 18, 2009 - 02:52pm PT
It you've only been climbing 15 yrs it's possible that you haven't drifted to the fringe where the hardcore wimin clmburs thrive....


Though I am sure it was not the author's intent, could be editing and merchendising, the article has a profoundly condescending flavor.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Dec 18, 2009 - 03:36pm PT
The article presents an image of women climbing together--fantastic, great. And yes, there is an increasing proportion of woman climbers (well okay, so the suggested ten-year timeline is absurdly short, but never mind).

In a larger context, how did we get to the situation where the three women can get together and climb, and another woman can, in 2009, write this article?

Perhaps because of all those uppity women who were determined to join in activities that were once so male dominated, like climbing--or politics--or, hell, even writing. Women feisty enough to stand up for themselves and create opportunities that are now taken for granted.

The article could not exist without women like Tami.
Emon

Trad climber
Dec 18, 2009 - 03:38pm PT

For whatever reason I read this piece not so much through the gender lens; my principal reaction was, 'Aa, consumerist America, Identity through stuff, where it's not only the activity itself that's empowering, but buying the gear for the activity that's empowering.'

Becky, since you've been brave enough to chime in on this often hostile thread, and I'm curious to know more about how the wheels of infotainment churn behind the scenes, I'd like to ask: Were you encouraged by editors or others in the process to mention the purchasing of gear and play up the purchasing opportunities involved with climbing as you wrote your piece?

Thanks,
Erika
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 18, 2009 - 04:39pm PT
Correction; stuff gets published, that editors want people, to read...
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