WTB: Bedayn Carabiners

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Messages 1 - 57 of total 57 in this topic
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 9, 2009 - 06:24pm PT
60's Bedayn Ovals

Lemme know if you have any that you'd like to sell, thanks.
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Dec 9, 2009 - 08:03pm PT
I bootied one a few years ago from the talus below El Cap. I have no idea what became of it.

Are you making a special collection?
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2009 - 05:56pm PT
Yes, been putting together a great 60's rack for years now. Vintage pitons are easy to come by but carabiners are a little more difficult to find. Once in a while I post up to see if anyone has some for sale.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Dec 10, 2009 - 07:10pm PT
What are they worth?
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Dec 10, 2009 - 07:16pm PT
I have one. Make me an offer!
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2009 - 04:11pm PT
About $7-10 each depending on condition. How many would you like to sell?
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Dec 11, 2009 - 10:02pm PT
Root posted: About $7-10 each depending on condition. How many would you like to sell?

Pfttt: I take it you've been away from the internet for a while then.....A 1972 Chouinard catalog which when new was handed out for free like candy to pre-schoolers can easily go for $300. Most of the people who posted here had one or more. Yet most of them have never seen a Bedayan biner.
MisterE

Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
Dec 11, 2009 - 10:09pm PT
Mike Layton and I found one of those on our Mox peak ascent - the last party up there was a 1968 hiking group out of Portland, that ascended the impressive 1000-foot, to-5.9 slab after an arduous approach, then bailed at the headwall. It is unavailable, sadly.
Scared Silly

Trad climber
UT
Dec 12, 2009 - 12:27am PT
A nice Bedayn is worth $20 or so in my book. I gave the last one I found to my climbing partner. I got a bunch on the ole mantle. Oddly I saw one out on feebay a few weeks ago.
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2009 - 01:10pm PT
Been buying them for the past 10 years now. Sure people pay a lot of money for the vintage catalogs and gear by Chouinard, but I'm not posting to buy that.

Hell I rently bought (2) never been used Bedayn's for $15 total and that included (2) additional vintage SMC's carabiners..and was bidding against other collectors on the INTERNET.

I did see one go for $30 once though, but that was before the recession.

Let me know if you want to sell any. Thanks
stephen hammer

Trad climber
Gallup
Oct 9, 2010 - 07:42pm PT
Do not collect.
But, here are a couple of biners purchased via catalog out of Seattle WA. It is felt from REI in a grouping of 10 for fall 1969 it is figured $15, or $2/each. But one is stamped on body of one Recreational Equipment, Inc. (REI), on the other on the gate Bedayn California. A lot of times biners were mixed but use electrician tape at time with dual colors to tell who's were whos. Know the were purchase from REI, remnant of black, my tape colors were black and white still exists on Bedayn one. Biners are close to identical, so figure Bedayn must have made the carabiners for REI. If that helps anyone in collecting.
Biners 1969 REI Bedayn same?
Biners 1969 REI Bedayn same?
Credit: stephen hammer
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 9, 2010 - 08:57pm PT
Actually, you can see two of the differences in your photo:
1. The Bedayn has the inside edge of the gate rounded at the hinge, while it is square on the REI.
2. The REI has a larger gap between the gate and body at the hinge, to create clearance for the square gate end.

The REI biners were made by SMC, I believe.
I have several biners of the same design as your REI, with the (SMC) logo.
SMC may have been part of REI, or originated from it; I'm not sure. [See Steve's post below - separate companies]

I checked my junk stash and found two Bedayns.
Would be happy to trade one for a Chouinard Model III, haha, I wish!
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Oct 9, 2010 - 10:30pm PT
First of all Pilgrims, Raffi's name was originally spelled, "Bedayan". There is actually a bench in Camp Four now dedicated to him. It is located at the southeast corner of the Columbia Boulder. He was a great guy, well liked and full of energy!

Here is an even rarer carabiner: a Ski Hut. Plus an earlier Chouinard. Not sure about the Chouinard vintage. I also have quite a few "Eiger" carabiners, not shown.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 9, 2010 - 11:52pm PT
Nice Ski Hut carabiner, Peter! I wonder who produced those?
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Oct 9, 2010 - 11:57pm PT
I will have to ask Al Steck; I don't think I have ever known. I think Joe Taylor III talks about it in his book though, Pilgrims of the Vertical. DR has my copy right now.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 10, 2010 - 03:32am PT
The logo on the biner is spelled: BEDAYN .

The original spelling of Raffi's name was Bedayan.

In Steve Roper's "Camp 4" book:

The index entry on p.247:
"Bedayan (Bedayn), Raffi"

p.108:
"... Raffi Bedayn (he had changed the spelling of his last name by this time) ..." [1960]
bmacd

Trad climber
100% Canadian
Oct 10, 2010 - 03:43am PT
I have a few of them, I hated them but the narrow nose was useful for clipping manky old homemade bolt hangers with tight holes on the Chief. I found them on old rappells and at the base, somehow they migrated themselves into active duty on my rack.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Oct 10, 2010 - 08:28am PT
Thanks Clint, awesome as usual! Raffi was very well known in our community. And his nickname was, "Raffles". He was so loaded with energy he verged on the silly. One of his nonclimbing activities was developing old industrial buildings into studios and work/live units. He was a predecessor to David Wilson in this regard.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 10, 2010 - 11:50am PT
It is worth mentioning that Bedayan carabiners have at least two distinct runs based on the gate stamps. The shorter stamp is older and does not contain "California," if I recall correctly.

Interesting that the Ski Hut crabs have a scroll pin at the pivot point instead of peened solid rod.

REI and SMC are separate business entities even though SMC produced carabiners without the SMC stamp.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 20, 2010 - 06:37am PT
A Bedayn carabiner sold for $39.38 + $5 shipping on ebay, 9/30/2010:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180565487907

Thanks for the info on SMC, Steve.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Oct 20, 2010 - 09:08am PT
More stuff on Raffi:


http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=665765&tn=0&mr=0

Yosemite Gazette on Raffi:

http://www.supertopo.com/forumphotos/RaffiBedayn.pdf

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=752672&tn=0
Cliff wiliams

Trad climber
nj
Oct 20, 2010 - 09:49am PT
I got a spare Bedayn kicking about.I wouldn't sell it but...
I would trade it for a Allain or Desmaison carabiner
Chris Jones

Social climber
Glen Ellen, CA
Oct 22, 2010 - 09:55pm PT
In 1960 I met a New York-based climber, Howard Freidman, in the Dolomites. He was likely the first American climber any of us had ever met; my English mates and I had no idea about American climbing or equipment. We were in awe of his New York accent, and especially when he showed us his Bedayn carabiners, referring to them as something like "Bedaaayans". Their silky smooth gate action was a vast improvement over the few aluminum Pierre Allain carabiners that we had managed to buy a few weeks before in Chamonix. Up until then we mostly used Stubai steel carabiners, which were both heavy and had a lousy gate action.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Oct 22, 2010 - 09:59pm PT
But remember too, Chris, that there were these aluminum army surplus carabiners out too. You could buy them from REI back then. I think that was the main initial reason I joined REI then. I think maybe $1.25?? It has been a long time.

They came packed in oil or oilpaper. And they were truly ugly. Tons of dross and pits in the surface. The gates were kind of a little floppy. I had about 30-40 of them by Xmas of 1963. None left of course; they were really questionable or at least not inspiring. Not sure if they were from WWII or the Korean War.
steveA

Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
Oct 22, 2010 - 11:07pm PT
I've got a bunch of bedayn biners kicking around. I still use them when I rack up. My gear is a real mix of old & new stuff. I guess I'm not very up to date!!
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Dec 11, 2010 - 10:08pm PT
Here is a real find. This is Raffi Bedayan (then Bedayan, later Bedayn) in 1945 when he was in the 10 mtn division. He is in Pietra Colora, Italy. By this point, the war must have been over in Italy, I would think. Don't have the month. This image comes to us from the Library of Congress!! Last time I saw him must have been 1970, I think, in Berkeley.

guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Dec 11, 2010 - 10:15pm PT
Hennek and Harper use to work for Raffi and have some funny stories. Time for Hennek to step up to the plate so to speak.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Dec 11, 2010 - 10:19pm PT
But Joej, isn't this image of Raffles fun!?? I just found it on the LOL site.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jan 2, 2011 - 01:07pm PT
I just came across a shot of an early Bedayan biner with the scroll pin at the axle. Those Ski Hut biners were likely made by Raffi.
wildone

climber
Troy, MT
Jan 2, 2011 - 01:17pm PT
I have one I found in TM. Not selling though.
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Jan 10, 2011 - 02:06pm PT
I never had the chance to meet Raffi. But I worked a ropes course with his son who lived in Sonoma for a time. He and his family moved north many years ago now.

Yes I have both styles of Bedayn biners. And no I am not selling. Good luck though.
jstan

climber
Jan 10, 2011 - 02:15pm PT
An excellent read. Don't miss it. Raffi was a supply officer.

http://homepage.mac.com/galaher/10thMountain/seneca.html

Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jan 10, 2011 - 03:56pm PT
These are the two lettering types (not including the scroll pin version that Steve mentioned above).

(photo by Peter Haan)

Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
Whoa - had no idea you guys posted more info...thought everyone was pissed at my $7-10 offer. Yeah I saw the $40 - who do you think bid it up : ) if I don't get, then the winner pays dearly.

Anyways, right now they're averging about $20 a piece. Let me know if you have some you want to sell.

PS I have (1) Ski Hut carabiner. Contacted them to find out the age of it a few years ago but they didn't know what I was talking about..
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
I have a few Allains that I might want to trade...
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 9, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
Ranger Ben, at Sunday climber coffee in front of some obscure boulder....
Ranger Ben, at Sunday climber coffee in front of some obscure boulder. Bedayan rock and plaque being used as table.
Credit: Mighty Hiker
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 9, 2013 - 05:00pm PT
Well this is surprising. I've said things in other threads concerning the old boy, but it never occurred to me that Raffi was an officer. Those look like two bars on his lid. It really does fit his personality. He had opinions, he knew lots of people, he was a real operator, everything just so, confident as heck.

I was very lucky to have had several inconsequential conversations with him. We never talked about climbing that I recall. Rafffi did have a sense of humor. He owned the building across from the 1234 5th St. location of TNF and it was leased to Euro-mechanics to work on Eyetalian mega-machines. He called it "Little Roma."

Clint's photos elicit a "feel" for the aluminum biner (alumibiner) which is eerily familiar: I'm sitting here remembering all the SHUTs & Beddies I've handled--all of the alumibiners like those had a distinct "hand" or texture, much the same as certain fabrics exhibit. Steelies had a vastly different type of scarring on them* than did ABs. I think it's because they all scratch and erode under use, no matter how gentle the use, but it affects the surface enough to cause this sensation over repeated use. And just being racked causes loss of material, too, I believe.

I can't recall the Chonies having the same feel, but I never owned many, no more than a dozen, likely.

Of course, it's all moot when your hands are worked-over by pitoning and un-pitoning.

Tape worked for a while, to distinguish who owned what, but I learned to put it on the hinge or it wore out--sprayed paint, too. Larry's rack was yellow. Mine was red. Jeff's blue, I think.

Eiger ovals were "just there"--not especially useful for racking, IMO, mainly for connecting.

And the hinge curve and the gap on the Bedayn and the REI ovals was a very savvy call, Clint. My compliments on that.

*Peter, I never had more than six or eight steel biners, but not a sound gate among them, not one, ever.
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
Bump - good history thread but I would like to buy some Bedayns : )
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:12am PT
Well - Iíve got a few 50s Bedayns (used on the Nose), Ski Huts (ditto), Eigers, Omegas, SMCs, REIs, and unidentified.

Offer?

Also a combination of the original bolt (thanks Mad Bolter), homemade hanger and Bedayn biner used on the legendary last bolt ladder. But Iím not really tempted to part with the latter unless somebody from the 1% wants to bid something ridiculous.

Oh yeah - some of the drills and drill holders used there too.

Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:15am PT
Peter - great shot of Raffi! Nice find. Thanks.
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
Bump - let me know if anyone has some Bedayns and/or other vintage gear for sale. I'm always looking. Thank you.
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2013 - 11:47am PT
Dug this out the other day...NOS!

New old stock
New old stock
Credit: Roots
BooDawg

Social climber
Butterfly Town
Mar 21, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
My most personal associations with Raffi occurred during the winter of '74-'75 when I was living in my van in C4. At the time the NPS had instituted a new Master Planning process for the park, after a huge public outcry when the previous plan had essentially given too much power to the Yosemite Park and Curry Company, recently purchased by MCA.

I attended the first round of public meetings in the Valley, Mariposa, Oakhurst, etc. When the meetings were expanded to the Bay Area, I preceded them and with Raffi and RD Caughron, organized an AAC meeting where I explained the meetings' format, and we discussed various strategies for getting the climbers'/AAC's messages into the process.

Raffi's energy, humor, and generosity were always evident, especially in smaller gatherings at his office in Berkeley which normally included RD, Mike Warburton, Raffi, me and others. He was also involved, with the AAC, in the first group of Russians who came to the USA on a climbers' exchange. We had a great time showing the Russians the Bay Area and introducing them to Yosemite. Mike did some climbing with them and, with Raffi's help, Mike went on the next year's Russian exchange and climbed with them in the Caucasus. I still remember clearly Raffi's smiling face, his easy laughter, and his heart of gold.

Haanster: Great photo of Raffi in WW II !! And thanks for posting that Yosemite Gazette article.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 21, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
Mellissa - I bootied one a few years ago from the talus below El Cap.
I found one in the talus below the Column as we (myself & W. Landry) were on the approach to SWFWC ('74). It was a real score, even back then, since we figured it belonged to some Ol' Timer (lol) who dropped it on an early WC route. I ended up giving it to him (WL) when he split back to San Diego, as a token of respect & brotherhood...he seemed pretty pleased (perhaps he still has it).
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2013 - 02:24pm PT
BooDawg - whish I could get a time machine...sounds like a great time to have been a climber!
Magic Ed

Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
Mar 22, 2013 - 02:57pm PT
Sorry, not selling mine.
Don Lauria

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Mar 22, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
Not selling this one either. Picked it off the Nose in '67 when Boche and I were doing the 8th ascent. Dick Williams, et al, had done the 7th.

DanaB

climber
CT
Mar 22, 2013 - 07:46pm PT
Dick is still out at the Trapps on most good days - maybe you should mail it to him?
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
Well if any of you change your mind(s) let me know...obviously they're getting harder to find. Have not seen one on Ebay in quite a while.

My recent $ offer was too low. I'd pay $25-40 each now. Depends on how many, etc
jstan

climber
Apr 1, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
Peter:
Thanks for the photo!

I had just one conversation with Raffi. More than anything else he wanted to encourage people. You can see that even in a picture.
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin OC
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
Anyone know what the manufacture date is on this variation? The pictured carabiner is a little different than the "newer" ones that have smooth, rounded sides and finer stamping.

Credit: Roots

Fatter Font
Fatter Font
Credit: Roots

Flat Sides
Flat Sides
Credit: Roots
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Feb 7, 2014 - 02:48am PT
interestingly, his brother Torcom didn't change his family name...
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 7, 2014 - 04:04pm PT
Thanks for all the help!! I believe I have about 30 Bedayns now which will make a great (rack) display in the future. I will only be interested in buying Bedayns that were used by climbers of record or with the early "Calif." stamping.

FYI - the last one on eBay sold for $20.

Here is one now - happy watching:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-BEDAYN-CALIFORNIA-carabiner-/171237613351?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276#ht_245wt_1105
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 8, 2014 - 08:59am PT
Met Raffi several times at Indian Rock and once in the Valley, had the privilege of bouldering a bit with him. Really nice and smart guy, RIP.

Had several of his biners, but not anymore.

Mouse, that looks like one bar and the article mentions him as a first lieutenant. Must have been interesting times for Raffi and others in WW2.
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2014 - 04:26pm PT
One just sold on Ebay for $13...
steveA

Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
Apr 14, 2014 - 04:43pm PT
I've got a few, but my son wants me to keep them for him. I met R.B. in Camp 4 in 1971. He was eating an orange-peel included and I thought that was kind of strange. He said you must eat the peels, since that's where all the vitamins are etc.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 14, 2014 - 04:54pm PT
good luck on the vintage carabiner hunt!

I got nada!
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