A 'Surprise' bolt!

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Messages 141 - 160 of total 207 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 3, 2012 - 09:41pm PT
^^^^^^

I'm glad someone is willing to go to war over it.


If someone tries to stop you, what would you do?
Johannsolo

climber
Soul Cal
Oct 3, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
As I said, there is no discussion here. Those bolts will be chopped this weekend.
Epic E

Big Wall climber
CA
Oct 3, 2012 - 11:04pm PT
Chiseled Steps it is!
Epic E

Big Wall climber
CA
Oct 3, 2012 - 11:29pm PT
Before to long climbing gyms are going to be shut down here in CA because the plastic holds are going to be outlawed just like the plastic bags we used to put are grocery's in. Then all you old timer bad ass slab climbers are going to be pulling the last of your hair out when the retro bolts start popping up to keep the noobies safe. California communism is RAD! You guys wont even climb anymore, you'll just be going out to rappel and chop bolts. You'll have to much pride to climb a retro bolted route and not enough sack to climb past a bolt without clipping it. CA is awesome!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 3, 2012 - 11:40pm PT
^^^^^^^
Just before the Annunaki return?
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
Oct 3, 2012 - 11:58pm PT
Epic E did you really put a bolt 10 -15 feet up from the protectable crack or are you kidding? I thought we were only discussing Clark's bolt that was added for Clam Chowder.

If you did place a bolt 10-15 feet above the crack I have to respectfully disagree. Chiseled steps isn't a good joke by the way.

peace eric
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Oct 4, 2012 - 01:43pm PT
Surprise is easy, no bolt is needed.

G-davis I thought you liked the history and had some respect for the stone.

When you climb Surprise, don't go anywhere near that crack. If you do, you need to traverse to the left to get to the easy stuff - and that is the move most folks fall off of.

We always always lined up about 15 feet left of the crack, bust moves up and after about only 15 feet or so you latch a killer edge and the climbing gets easy...much like a 5.7 boulder problem.

The bolt is not needed. I am SURPRISED that people are saying that Clark put that one in. I really find that surprising that he would do it cause it serves no purpose.

So chop away.

John if you need help, PM me. I'm all in.

Guy Keesee

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 4, 2012 - 03:52pm PT

G-davis I thought you liked the history and had some respect for the stone


I do. I just saw a lot of people getting very worked up over a small issue.

justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Oct 4, 2012 - 04:30pm PT
150 posts arguing about a single chip of metal. *(sigh)*

Yes it's on a classic route. NO.. it shouldn't have been put there but... it's ridiculous that this thread has been bouncing around for so long. I've lost count of how many people proclaimed they were going to chop it over the last few years that haven't done so.

Just make a f*#king decision.

2 things can happen:

1) Chop it? Fine.. quit talking about it and get out of your armchair and go chop it... do it this week. Temps look great this week for chopping. Go for it. No one is stopping you.

2) Leave it? Fine. Quit ranting that it needs to be chopped and live with it. It's a lame, unnecessary bolt. It's not the end of the climbing universe.





toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Oct 4, 2012 - 04:51pm PT
-

uhhh, there are two bolts that prolly need choppin, on 1st pitch of Surprise...like guyzo said, avoid the right crack and just go up straight; it's 20ft of 5.7 bouldering to the big stuff


boltless, the sketched out noob leader can always bring some hooks and use 10ft of duct tape strips to secure them babys to various flakes/holds; don't want any noobs taking that 60-footer to the deck now


-


guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Oct 4, 2012 - 04:54pm PT
GDavis and Maid.......

No mater how you feel, about bolts, I know both of you have huge respect for the history of our sport. Surprise is a piece of that history. It was one of the first "modern" face climbs. It broke from tradition of not climbing blank faces. It is very much like the B&Y in that the B&Y broke from the tradition of the "stance" needed for drilling.

I like history and I think protecting it is important.

If this sort of thinking... Ok to add bolts if enuf folks think it's a good idea....
continues than one day we will be fighting about the bolts added to The Edge.

That will suck

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2012 - 04:59pm PT
It looks to me that, after a three year resurrection, some of the key findings of this thread may have been lost in the most recent posts. Take note of this post from somewhere around #70:

"I spoke to Clark this past weekend and he said he added the two bolts to the first pitch of Clam Chowder (not Surprise)."

The 'Surprise' bolt was not intended for 'Surprise' at all...it's on 'Clam Chowder'. Nothing wrong with resurrecting the discussion of retrobolting routes, but howzabout some consistency in some basic facts such as the route in question...

Edit: ...and even if that bolt could be used on 'Surprise', it's in a location that provides trivial, if any, protection to that route.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Oct 4, 2012 - 05:27pm PT
App... you are correct.

Guck

Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
Oct 4, 2012 - 05:36pm PT
Getting into the crack of White Lightning can be tricky. The start certainly needs three or four bolts to make it safe, with a nice "sports climb" feel. Another possible bolt project could be the mantle on the nutcracker, and many many more ...

It is time for some "climbers" to switch to lawn bowling, and leave the rocks as they are!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 4, 2012 - 06:11pm PT
__It's a lovely little tempest
In a lovely little teapot
Would you like to take some sugar
Or will you take some cream?__

Popcorn's free.
Who needs cable?
It is a first-time re-run, though.
If they had TV:

Merry: Hey, there was a bolt found on the Five Open Books.
Werner: Why am I not surpeised?
Merry: Yep. I've seen who climbs there...
Werner; Quatch'd you say?
Merry: I said I saw Quatch over on the Surprise several years ago.
Werner: Why am I not surprised. He's so much fun to sandbag.
Merry: Anything on the zzzzzzzzBrown thread? I'm tired as heck.
Werner: Yep. Mouse can talke your ear off. I ignore him, myself.


Going back to Suicide
I missed the first few tries
Going back to Cali Cali Cali
Going back to Taquitz Tahquitz Tockeets
With a bolt kit on my knee.

Never show up at a local crag with a bolt kit.
Word to the un-wise n00bie who just bought his very own kit.
Ask, you fool, before you drill, if there is doubt.

Even when I was the Suicidal Dilettante, clinking around the base with a rack of mostly biners of a weekend, I seemed to think "not too run-out, you can always reach over to a nearby climb and clip pro if you really need it." What, if I may I ask, the F*#k, if you'll pardon my French, is new? They fu--ing grow bolts on that apron, there.

It blows my mind to think it's quiet enough there during the week, when this probably happened, for it to be able to happen. Too many witnesses on the weekend.

BFD, really. To clip or not to clip ain't even the question. It should be, "Which route am I really on?" Or, "Is this a valid send if I clip here?"

I feel like an interloper, but the Sluice-Side crag's one of the prettiest in the Sierra Nevada, and I sorta like it best of all the So-Cal (so-cial) crags I have visited. It's always so crowded. I guess it's cuz the routes are so crowded in, like a grid-locked freeway system. Guy wandering around the base with a sign: "Will drill for food." Flip it over and it says: "Will listen to and spread any of your stories for a Double-Double."

No one expects you to clip every bolt. Sometimes you really wonder why there isn't one, too. It is a very loose game and it appeals to me more than golf, certainly, in that respect. Things tend to even out.

And then you die. Suicide, Swisside, or othercide.

justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Oct 4, 2012 - 08:00pm PT
OK- amend that to two chips of metal. I was sort of being facetious.

Sorry- it's been two/three years now and the bolts are still there. I don't know what that means. Either the community has accepted them, or if they are unacceptable - someone needs to remove them and not spend another 2 years bitching about it online.

PS: I do respect the history BTW. :)





Johannsolo

climber
Soul Cal
Oct 4, 2012 - 08:28pm PT
If I am still on this earth come Monday, those bolts will not be. I've never even seen Gdavis at Suicide, just bullshittin! at the shop. You know who I am Greg?
John Weinberg
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 4, 2012 - 09:32pm PT
If I am still on this earth come Monday, those bolts will not be. I've never even seen Gdavis at Suicide, just bullshittin! at the shop. You know who I am Greg?
John Weinberg


Absolutely I do. You've seen me and we've been cordial several times that we've talked. Its unfortunate you don't want to extend that same courtesy online.

I don't climb at suicide much, its quite a drive and I've been injured much this year.

I train hard, VERY hard. I work my f*#king ass off, likely more so than almost anyone posting on this thread. I am humbled only by myself, and the strongest climbers I've ever met have incidentally been the most honest, humble, well meaning people.

I'm not sure what makes you tick, John. You're a quirky guy - like me. There's a lot of us out there.

I think intent is important and I think that we need to live with the reality that I easily could have been born John Weinberg, or Apogee, or JustTheMaid. Sometimes I lose that thought and can be disrespectful online - I don't mean it, I'm just trying to make light of often unnecessarily heavy situations.

There is a Musashi quote which goes something like the Way of the warrior does not include other Ways...but if you know the Way broadly, you will see it in everything. The small struggles in climbing, those crux moves, you have to work them and you have to come to grips with weaknesses. Maybe we should do that outside the crag more often.


Peace brother.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2012 - 11:06pm PT
"If I am still on this earth come Monday, those bolts will not be."

I think I understand your position, but I'd have more respect for it if you reached the same position by talking with Clark before taking action. Everyone has a right to their opinion on a matter like this, but Clark ain't no sport wankin' n00b who pulls plastic at Rockreation...he is by far the most prolific steward of Suicide & Tahquitz, and has been for decades. A direct conversation with him is certainly in order.

If/when you do go there, please do it with craftsmanship. A hack job would be most unfortunate.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Oct 5, 2012 - 05:47am PT
If/when you do go there, please do it with craftsmanship. A hack job would be most unfortunate.


I can't agree enough on this point. It's better to leave it alone if you can't remove it cleanly. I've seen a number of chop jobs lately that were a complete mess/eyesore. If you have enough energy to go chopping, you should be willing to invest the time required to restore things to original. That's my last say.

I'll let the big-boys duke it out,

Have a nice weekend everyone.
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