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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Eventually it was decided no bolt, but slabs are notorious for runouts and it is too bad that today's climbers don't do them. So we all agreed on retrobolting a few, and they are insanely popular.
So if you sit down and be logical a certain amount of retrobolting can be agreed upon. With the FA's permission of course, which was no big deal.
This is a much more eloquent way to say what I think. Just kind of interesting, its one of the few times after I abandoned organized religion I feel like I'm in church again.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Y'all in California digress constantly into discussions about this bolt or that bolt on this overclimbed route or that....are there only six or seven routes in the State...I thought there were more.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Y'all in California digress constantly into discussions about this bolt or that bolt on this overclimbed route or that....are there only six or seven routes in the State...I thought there were more.
It can sometimes be a type of 'settling,' like complaining about the garden or the neighbors lawn.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Johan.....Shouldn't of said anything and removed them...Would the reaction have been the same as the placement of said bolt? I think not. Suprise was one of my first run slabs....Climbed a lot down there and learned a lot. GDavis..... No difference then adding a bolt to Valhala or any other route. It's been said many times on many other bolt threads that the general consensus is the FA has the say. The argument against or the 'no one owns the rock" argument so far is in the minority. There are plenty of well protected routes in the world. You had a goal called "The Vampire". I'm sure you would have been disappointed if you found a new bolt on that(good job on reaching your goal bye the way!). You can't decide which climbs are sacred or not. For many, Suprise has been a stepping stone on the path of runout slab which many call the true Bastion of climbing as noted on other threads. And there are few better training grounds then Tahquitz and Suicide.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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No difference then adding a bolt to Valhala or any other route
Yup exactly the same.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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^^^^^^
I'm glad someone is willing to go to war over it.
If someone tries to stop you, what would you do?
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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As I said, there is no discussion here. Those bolts will be chopped this weekend.
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Epic E
Big Wall climber
CA
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Chiseled Steps it is!
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Epic E
Big Wall climber
CA
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Before to long climbing gyms are going to be shut down here in CA because the plastic holds are going to be outlawed just like the plastic bags we used to put are grocery's in. Then all you old timer bad ass slab climbers are going to be pulling the last of your hair out when the retro bolts start popping up to keep the noobies safe. California communism is RAD! You guys wont even climb anymore, you'll just be going out to rappel and chop bolts. You'll have to much pride to climb a retro bolted route and not enough sack to climb past a bolt without clipping it. CA is awesome!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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^^^^^^^
Just before the Annunaki return?
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mountainlion
Trad climber
California
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Epic E did you really put a bolt 10 -15 feet up from the protectable crack or are you kidding? I thought we were only discussing Clark's bolt that was added for Clam Chowder.
If you did place a bolt 10-15 feet above the crack I have to respectfully disagree. Chiseled steps isn't a good joke by the way.
peace eric
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Surprise is easy, no bolt is needed.
G-davis I thought you liked the history and had some respect for the stone.
When you climb Surprise, don't go anywhere near that crack. If you do, you need to traverse to the left to get to the easy stuff - and that is the move most folks fall off of.
We always always lined up about 15 feet left of the crack, bust moves up and after about only 15 feet or so you latch a killer edge and the climbing gets easy...much like a 5.7 boulder problem.
The bolt is not needed. I am SURPRISED that people are saying that Clark put that one in. I really find that surprising that he would do it cause it serves no purpose.
So chop away.
John if you need help, PM me. I'm all in.
Guy Keesee
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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G-davis I thought you liked the history and had some respect for the stone
I do. I just saw a lot of people getting very worked up over a small issue.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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150 posts arguing about a single chip of metal. *(sigh)*
Yes it's on a classic route. NO.. it shouldn't have been put there but... it's ridiculous that this thread has been bouncing around for so long. I've lost count of how many people proclaimed they were going to chop it over the last few years that haven't done so.
Just make a f*#king decision.
2 things can happen:
1) Chop it? Fine.. quit talking about it and get out of your armchair and go chop it... do it this week. Temps look great this week for chopping. Go for it. No one is stopping you.
2) Leave it? Fine. Quit ranting that it needs to be chopped and live with it. It's a lame, unnecessary bolt. It's not the end of the climbing universe.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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GDavis and Maid.......
No mater how you feel, about bolts, I know both of you have huge respect for the history of our sport. Surprise is a piece of that history. It was one of the first "modern" face climbs. It broke from tradition of not climbing blank faces. It is very much like the B&Y in that the B&Y broke from the tradition of the "stance" needed for drilling.
I like history and I think protecting it is important.
If this sort of thinking... Ok to add bolts if enuf folks think it's a good idea....
continues than one day we will be fighting about the bolts added to The Edge.
That will suck
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
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It looks to me that, after a three year resurrection, some of the key findings of this thread may have been lost in the most recent posts. Take note of this post from somewhere around #70:
"I spoke to Clark this past weekend and he said he added the two bolts to the first pitch of Clam Chowder (not Surprise)."
The 'Surprise' bolt was not intended for 'Surprise' at all...it's on 'Clam Chowder'. Nothing wrong with resurrecting the discussion of retrobolting routes, but howzabout some consistency in some basic facts such as the route in question...
Edit: ...and even if that bolt could be used on 'Surprise', it's in a location that provides trivial, if any, protection to that route.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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App... you are correct.
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Guck
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Getting into the crack of White Lightning can be tricky. The start certainly needs three or four bolts to make it safe, with a nice "sports climb" feel. Another possible bolt project could be the mantle on the nutcracker, and many many more ...
It is time for some "climbers" to switch to lawn bowling, and leave the rocks as they are!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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__It's a lovely little tempest
In a lovely little teapot
Would you like to take some sugar
Or will you take some cream?__
Popcorn's free.
Who needs cable?
It is a first-time re-run, though.
If they had TV:
Merry: Hey, there was a bolt found on the Five Open Books.
Werner: Why am I not surpeised?
Merry: Yep. I've seen who climbs there...
Werner; Quatch'd you say?
Merry: I said I saw Quatch over on the Surprise several years ago.
Werner: Why am I not surprised. He's so much fun to sandbag.
Merry: Anything on the zzzzzzzzBrown thread? I'm tired as heck.
Werner: Yep. Mouse can talke your ear off. I ignore him, myself.
Going back to Suicide
I missed the first few tries
Going back to Cali Cali Cali
Going back to Taquitz Tahquitz Tockeets
With a bolt kit on my knee.
Never show up at a local crag with a bolt kit.
Word to the un-wise n00bie who just bought his very own kit.
Ask, you fool, before you drill, if there is doubt.
Even when I was the Suicidal Dilettante, clinking around the base with a rack of mostly biners of a weekend, I seemed to think "not too run-out, you can always reach over to a nearby climb and clip pro if you really need it." What, if I may I ask, the F*#k, if you'll pardon my French, is new? They fu--ing grow bolts on that apron, there.
It blows my mind to think it's quiet enough there during the week, when this probably happened, for it to be able to happen. Too many witnesses on the weekend.
BFD, really. To clip or not to clip ain't even the question. It should be, "Which route am I really on?" Or, "Is this a valid send if I clip here?"
I feel like an interloper, but the Sluice-Side crag's one of the prettiest in the Sierra Nevada, and I sorta like it best of all the So-Cal (so-cial) crags I have visited. It's always so crowded. I guess it's cuz the routes are so crowded in, like a grid-locked freeway system. Guy wandering around the base with a sign: "Will drill for food." Flip it over and it says: "Will listen to and spread any of your stories for a Double-Double."
No one expects you to clip every bolt. Sometimes you really wonder why there isn't one, too. It is a very loose game and it appeals to me more than golf, certainly, in that respect. Things tend to even out.
And then you die. Suicide, Swisside, or othercide.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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OK- amend that to two chips of metal. I was sort of being facetious.
Sorry- it's been two/three years now and the bolts are still there. I don't know what that means. Either the community has accepted them, or if they are unacceptable - someone needs to remove them and not spend another 2 years bitching about it online.
PS: I do respect the history BTW. :)
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