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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 23, 2005 - 03:04pm PT
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Hi y'all,
I have acquired one of each of these babies to do a review for one of the climbing magazines.
So far I have only uncrated the A5-Anker double - I think it's called the Cabana [duh], but it's beauty, eh? Burly construction, easy to assemble, all sorts of cool features and benefits. Superb fly, too! Hell, you can acquire three different flies depending on your needs! Only one little complaint, which I shall reveal in my review. And of course it comes with those end tubes that make the melodious jangling sounds around sunset on the Big Stone.
It is probable I will not have the opportunity to actually try the portaledges out on the wall [much though I would like to!] because I can't afford the extra weight of three ledges plus flies in my airplane baggage down to Yosemite this spring. And I suspect the Editor will want the review sooner rather than later.
So I would love to hear from any of y'all who have used the thangs, and what you like and dislike about them. Manufacturers *do* listen to what you have to say, so here's your chance.
Besides, some of the help you give me could make my job that much easier. It would be inconsistent with Dr. Piton's modus operandi to do any more work than he absolutely had to.
And a preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with.
Cheers,
The Doc
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Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
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Jan 23, 2005 - 03:40pm PT
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WTF? You are going to write a review and not even test the farkin things in a real world environment? Lame.
And they wonder why people call the rags worthless.
Until you've put them all together at a hanging belay, by yourself, in the dark, you ain't qualified to opine on them. Period.
And where is the Fish ledge in the review?
I've slept in all three of them ledges you list and I wouldn't trade my BD for any of 'em.
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bulgingpuke
Trad climber
cayucos california
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Jan 23, 2005 - 03:42pm PT
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I have a An older A5 double that i bought from my dad for like 170$ its pretty damn comphy. My only complaint is Its too short and kinda tight for two.
My friend gave me a Brand new Pika single it had never been used and only set up once. We took it on an attempt of
Re-animator I stood up on it right after setting it up and the poles f*#king bent all crooked. I wasnt even able to take it apart. plus the the suspension system SUCKED!!
No on Pika
~TY~
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2005 - 04:01pm PT
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If the mags were willing to pay for either some extra postage down to Yosemite, or to pay for my extra pig on the airplane, then I would be more than happy to try the things out on the wall. An extra bag on the airplane is at least a hundred bucks, and some of those bastard airlines only let you bring two fifty-pounders instead of the usual seventies. And you can well imagine the monumental pile of gear I have to lug down there, even though most of it is left in the hands of a trusted friend.
It is easy enough for me to set the things up in the dark in the basement whilst hanging against the wall in my aiders. However I almost *never* set my ledge up on the wall - I flag the thing pretty much exclusively. Fish did not send a ledge to this magazine, though I am not aware if he had been asked or not. If he wasn't asked, and reads this, I could tell him where to send one.
I'd like to believe I can tell you plenty from looking at how the things are constructed, that's for sure. I'm spent enough bloody nights in a portaledge [over 250, all in my Fish double] that I know a bit about the things. I know exactly what I'm looking for, and what I like and dislike. But the review will come with the "not wall tested" caveat, unless I drag my lazy ass out to the local cliff. The probability of this happening will increase proportionally with both temperature and the willingness of a hottie to come help "christen" them.
And yeah, I agree, it's a bit lame. Sorry.
That's why I'm asking you guys, eh?
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StyMingersfink
climber
the 51st state.... denial
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Jan 23, 2005 - 04:36pm PT
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Perhaps the rags, err, mags, would like to find someone willing to ACTUALLY FIELD TEST them, rather than offer an opinion based on how they look and set up in a garage, or second hand opinion.
I would kindly offer my services if this were the case. Feel free to contact me for a shipping adress. This will probably never happen, for as it's common knowledge "Not WHO you KNOW..." I don't pretend to participate in the rest of the saying.
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Sandbag
Mountain climber
Louisville, Co
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Jan 23, 2005 - 04:51pm PT
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Hey Pete,
Have you thought of just shipping the bloody things via the surface and just pick them up when you arrive. You have to get ground transport to the wall anyway, because i know they dont land jets(yet anyway) at the base of El Cap. Just my .02 of logic for the day.
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Moof
Trad climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Nor. CA
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Jan 23, 2005 - 04:55pm PT
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So are you going to make proper mention of the fish ledge, or are you going to completely tool out to just the big names? Especially the econoledge should get mentioned, it a whopping 3.5-4 times cheaper than the A5 ledges. We just need to get russ to get that budget fly out, my sewing sucks.
Please mention where they and their components are made. Sweat shop in asia? Made in the US? Made in the US by fellow climbing bums? It matters to some of us. I feel better knowing my dough is contributing to Russ' liver disease.
Seems to me that the bare minimum testing would be to sleep on them a couple nights each hanging off of some stone. Particularly I would expect the most piss poor review of a ledge to include commentary on what the experience of setting them up while free hanging on a mostly blank wall is like. Preferably you would set them up in a few common features (dihedral and face, overhung and slabby) and make sure there aren't suprises. I don't care if it's cold, or no underage chicks will spend a few nights with you. Get off your're Canadian Assassin arse and do a good job, less they figure out your main qualification is your ego and fire you.
One of my pet peeves for reviews is claims of durability without some actual testing. The haul bags with ledges inside should take a half mile ride hanging off your bumper with a 3m cord to roughly mimic a few trips up routes with slabby sections. Toss them off your roof a dozen times onto concrete and see if you can still set them up, or if the tubes ends and such are flimsy enough to be easily damaged through moderately rough handling.
What about service? If they survive all the previous crap, bash a tube end with your hammer and put a few inch slash in the bed then get a buddy to send them all back (for anonimity) and see if they repair it quickly and cheaply. See if they are cool enough to send the repaired ledge directly to him in the valley like most any real climber might need. Find out how much a replacement haulbag will cost you.
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dirtbagaaron
Trad climber
el cap dreamin'
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Jan 23, 2005 - 05:01pm PT
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hey wanna give me one when you're done? i'll pay shipping. come on. help a brother out.
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bulgingpuke
Trad climber
cayucos california
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Jan 23, 2005 - 06:23pm PT
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Dont forget to mention my info on the pika ledge PETE!!! those things are purely 100% shit! I did real field testing on it! I know! They Suck
And really how good are Fish ledges im interested?
~TY~
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 23, 2005 - 07:38pm PT
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Pete
If you want, you could send me the ledge, or ledges UPS and I'll hold it for you till you get here.
Werner
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 23, 2005 - 08:41pm PT
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I have the older A5 ledge. it's good, only problem I have with it is that it's a royal pain in the ass to get the end bars seated all the way into the corner peices. Takes a bit of magic and a prayer to get them in all the way and straight. It has also developed some stiny holes from wall grit.
still, it's good and I just bought another one for $155 w/tax+shipping off Conrad's site.
http://www.ankerclimbingequipment.com/sale.shtml
[edit:] oooops, sorry ALL GONE! :(
I liked the Fish single too.
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johnhenry
Big Wall climber
Tokyo/Honolulu
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Jan 24, 2005 - 08:57am PT
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In point of fact, I have owned the metolius and pika ledge, and just bought the A5 ledge Lamb-one is refering to. Quite a steal at $150. I couldn't get a ledge on pro-deal for that price.
The Pika ledge was short and cheap. It was my first ledge.
I really didn`t know how to set the thing up properly, so I called Pika. This is damn hilarious. The dude who picked up the phone tried to belittle me with the old "if you bought a ledge, you should know how to set one up" gag. Then, get this, in the process of speaking to me on a portable phone, he falls over and breaks his ankle. He screamed into the receiver that he had to go and seek medical attention. The next day he called me back and said his ankle was in a cast and basically said, " where were we..." I said, "in a nutshell, you were calling me an idiot, before you fell over and hurt yourself..." Classic. I actually didn't have any difficulties with the ledge the 4 or so odd times I used it.
The Metolius ledge is the cat's meow and, actually Pete, I tried to show you mine, but you seem rather uninterested at the time. The side-entry of the corners reduces sooo much of the headache of setting up the ledge. The spreader bar makes the rig drum tight and it is nice and long. The side poles slide together without any coaxing. All you have to do is straightnen them out and they join themselves. I wish I had'nt sold it, but cash was short and I needed to get to japan.
I look forward to trying out the bargin A5 ledge I just bought. Lambone, are the buckles on that thing plastic?
I haven't seen mine yet (it was shipped to Portland, OR to a buddies house). My buddy took a picture and sent it to me and it was a six point ledge, I thought the sale unit was a four point. Anyhow, I can't wait to take it and my new Silent Partner for a spin in the Valley this May. If I don't solo El Cap, let me die trying...
sorry for the sake inspired diatribe...
cheers,
john
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Bishop is DEAD, long live JT
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Jan 24, 2005 - 02:17pm PT
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Quick boil down of thread:
We have not been contacted by the mags for any review. We rarely are. Pick any two of the following as to why:
1. We don't advertise in the mags anymore.
2. I think most reviews are scant at best.
3. I think the mags play favorites and the reviews are biased.
4. Our product has not really changed much in the last decade or so, so there is no latest and greatist feature to crow about.
5. Personality conflict with a majority of editors, publishers, reviewers, columnists, accountants, etc. I can't imagine why.
6. The mags blow..... probably a byproduct of #5.
7. We never seem to have any ledges to send them.
here is a nutshell review/overview IMO, unbiased as a consumer, so back off lawyers:
Fish- Time tested bomber, easy to set up. Super durable. Best value for the money and a great guy to boot. Send him money. Web only sales.
Pika: please....... bad knock off of old A5 stuff. Word on the street is not good.
Metolius: great product in the higher price range. Good engineering and really nice fly made by Mountain Hardwear. Heavy?? Hmmmm. Only heard good things about this ledge.
Anker: was A5. Vanity line. If you need a really nice $8000 portaledge, look here, then buy Metolius for much less.
BD- Didn't they quit making ledges? One recall too many I guess. Perhaps the line is in for a reworking.
With as many nights as Pete has spent in our ledge, he could write a review in his sleep. I wonder if the mags will edit it out??? In fairness to you guys, the mags should give you all the info and let you decide.
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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Jan 24, 2005 - 02:21pm PT
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What good is a review by some guy who was too lazy to actually lug the product out to a cliff and test it out?
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 24, 2005 - 02:24pm PT
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John,
RE: A5 ledge
yes the buckles are plastic, your standard fastex thing. they work ok.
so the one they sent you is 6-point suspension, huh thats wierd. the photo their web site shows a 4-point, just like mine above. I didn't think they made a 6-point...
FWIW-
I liked Fish's single ledge much better then the A5. It was easier to set up (getting the corner pieces in), and the 6-point suspension seemed to be less "shifty." However I got a good deal on the A5 and couldn't pass it up.
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Jonny D
Social climber
Lost Angelez, Kalifornia
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Jan 24, 2005 - 02:43pm PT
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I'm curious to know why the BD ledges got recalled. We used one (the double) on our last wall and it was far easier to set up than the A5. It's a little heavier though, especially their bombproof fly.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 24, 2005 - 02:47pm PT
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Only the first edition of the BD ledges were recalled (made in 97?), they had cheap rivets and they made them stronger. Not many of these were made, so it's likely the one you were on is bomber. The good ones have brass rivets...check the BD website.
I'm sure they discontinued making them because they wern't generating a profit.
I like the BD double, but ended up selling it because I hate doubles.
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wildone
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 24, 2005 - 03:02pm PT
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C'mon Rhodo-Router, the ONLY place you can possibly test a ledge is Yosemite. And everybody knows that there is not a single choss pile anywhere in all of Canada to do real world testing...
Lame.
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macgyver
Social climber
Oregon
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Jan 24, 2005 - 03:28pm PT
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I am an engineer. I work in R & D. My job is to make or break the assumptions/dreams/trials done on lab scale and make it happen in the real world.
RULE #1
ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IN THE LABORATORY.
BUT IT DOESNT MEAN SH#T UNTIL YOU TAKE IT TO THE FIELD.
I will gladly take any ledges and drag them up and down some slabby granite with heavy winds (probably the best place to test durability) and go to town on a ledge.
Otherwise it is all "big wall theory".
I may be big wall gumby but I know a little about product testing and something smells fishy here.
It would be great if climbers had a gear guide similar to the one done by www.backpackgeartest.org but there is probably not enough of a demand. It is a nice site where you can see the testers credentials and separate initial bells and whistles from long term durability.
rock
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Wheatus
Social climber
CA
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Jan 24, 2005 - 03:47pm PT
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I have used both the old A5 double and the relatively new Metolius double. The metolius is wider and longer. Overall the Metolius is more comfortable to sleep on. The only flaw is that it is more difficult to assemble while at hanging belay. The spreader bar is great for eliminating sagging and rolling into your partner but hard to snap in place. If you are large like me then I would choose the Metolius.
I can't tell you about the Metolius fly since I have not used it yet.
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