Do you own a Petzl Pro-Traxion Hauling Device? READ THIS!

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'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 30, 2006 - 06:53pm PT
The Pro-Trax is a piece of crap, and contains several fundamental design flaws.

Please click here to [url="http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=243751&f=0&b=0#msg244913"]read a professional engineer's evaluation of the ProTrax.[/url] Please scroll down to Tom's post of August 28 at 11:59pm.

There is indeed a Better Way, which you will find beneath Tom's post.

Thanks,
Pete
up2top

Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
Aug 30, 2006 - 07:12pm PT
Seems this was my opinion a couple of years ago when the cam failed to engage the rope when the haul was at a very modest off-plumb from the pigs below. You defended the ProTraxion at that time and called it "pilot error" IIRC. Interesting when the shoe is on the other foot...

FWIW, you're not wrong in your a*#essment of the ProTraxion, IMO. I went out (well, went directly to Barrabes in Spain to be accurate) and bought the Kong Block Roll right after that trip was over. It is a very confidence inspiring device. Over-kill for any grade IV stuff, but well worth the weight and size for multi-day.

Ed
Russ Walling

Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
Aug 30, 2006 - 07:12pm PT
Is the sky falling again Pete? sheesh.....
crazyfingers

Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
Aug 30, 2006 - 07:35pm PT
I own a ProTraxion and it differs in a couple ways from the description of problems in the other thread.
My model has a collar around the button, which engages the side plate when closed. The side plate is then braced at the top clip-in point and at the pulley's axle (button location).
Also, the trigger mechanism used to release/engage the toothed cam on my model is not sensitive. It takes a deliberate and somewhat forceful movement to release it.
I see no way for a 11mm rope to slip past the pulley, since there's only 1/16th inch of clearance on each side.
The Pro seems to work well for moderate loads. I can't speak about hauling 300lbs. Seems unfair to trash something that works well for many instances. Besides, I got mine free.
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 30, 2006 - 07:54pm PT
Have you been in touch with Petzl about your concerns with the Pro-Traxion? They are a reputable company that makes a lot of good products, and would no doubt want to know of any problems with their equipment's design and manufacture.

Presumably you could contact Petzl U.S.A., and communicate in English with them.

Anders
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2006 - 08:37pm PT
You would think Petzl would listen, as they make some really good gear, but in some ways they just don't get it. I have bought three Petzl Duo lamps through the years, and there is a perennial design flaw with the switch. I buy them because they are waterproof for caving. My caving buddy who works for Siemens building relays says Petzl could fix the problem by spending an extra buck or so, but they won't. I have sent back two in the past, and I just sent back two more to the Co-op. They have finally discontinued it, and I need to investigate what their newest waterproof headlamp is.

I bought my Pro-Trax through the Mountain Equipment Co-Op in Canada. Their guarantee is such that, "if you are not fully satisfied with anything you buy from us, return it for full credit to spend in the store."

Done. Buying a new bivi sack from MEC, and another Block Roll from Kong.
Thom

Trad climber
South Orange County, CA
Aug 30, 2006 - 11:33pm PT
Haven't had any problems with mine. How much weight were you guys haulin' when the problems began, Pete? I mean, 600+ lbs is A LOT of frickin' gear man!

I rarely haul more than 300 lbs (45% of the rated load) and usually use a 2:1, so my Protraxion is basically relegated to simply holding the load in between pulls. Seems fine for this application.

The CMI Uplift is probably the ticket. I know some SAR guys that love 'em. At roughly $200, they come set-up for 4:1 hauling with a 54 kn (!!) double-sheave (3") pulley. The smaller version is a little over $100 and has a 32 kn double-sheave pulley (about the same size as the Kong I believe, but with a smaller sheave, 1.25")

T.
Hummerchine

Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
Aug 30, 2006 - 11:46pm PT
Pete:

I've got to agree with crazyfingers, I love my protraxion. I've used it on a few walls, and for me it has ruled. Sobering to hear of your problems with it, apparently it has flaws that only show up with very heavy loads or loading circumstances. I plan on climbing Lurking Fear in late Sept., tempted to get a Kong but we are trying to keep weight down...hopefully we won't overly stress the device. Thanks for the info!
Russ Walling

Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
Aug 30, 2006 - 11:54pm PT
C'mon HummerDaddy... up the ante a bit... Lurking Fear??? You got *that* strong for *that*???
( ya pussy!)
Kupandamingi

Trad climber
Berkeley
Aug 31, 2006 - 09:13am PT
Hauling on the triple D a few weeks ago - using an 8mm static and a protraxion - I did notice that if the haul was off plumb that the device wanted to suck the haul-line out of the pully proper and into the small space between the pully and the outside shealth. We were not hauling heavily loads and this occured anytime the haul was off-plumb...the more so, the more it wanted to suck into the gap.

Not sure if petzl recommends a larger haul line, but thought Id throw it out there. It never got fully stuck in the gap, but had to be watched and realigned prevented longer space hauls.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2006 - 09:21am PT
The Protrax is a nefarious device - it will work fine for a few walls, and then suddenly it buggers you up. I never liked it as much as the Kong because the pulley is smaller and the bearings aren't as good, so the Kong has always been the substantially easier device to haul with.

The place you really notice how much better a Kong works is when you're solo hauling a heavy load that you can just barely 1:1 haul. If you had the opportunity to try the two devices side by side like I have for so many walls, you would be amazed at how much easier it is to haul with a Kong. On many solo walls, I have been able to switch to 1:1 hauling a full two days ealier with a Kong than I would have been able to switch with a different device - it's just that much better.

Why would anyone buy one if they can get a Kong for only a few bucks more?

If you have only read what's written on this post, and not read Tom's excellent analysis of the design flaws of the Pro-Trax, please scroll up and click on the link.
PD

Big Wall climber
Reno, NV
Sep 7, 2006 - 10:56pm PT
I am a lame ass climber who doesn't know sh*@t, but I've had a pro traxion completely break on me while a load was being lowered out from below, with the second riding out the haul bags. It wasn't a big lower out at all, yet the thing torqued oddly due to the lack of a swivel on it, and it spit out the rope and nearly severed it. Luckily I backed up the device with a knot just after the pully, before the lower out, and so my partner and all the haul bags did not fall to their deaths. The rope had come out from between the pulley and the cam, bending the sheet metal and pulling out the axle that is supposed to hold the pulley in place.

I don't think I'll use one again. I called it pilot error but after reading this post I'm convinced the thing sucks arse! But then again, I am a lame ass climber who doesn't know sh*@t.
dirtineye

Trad climber
the south
Sep 7, 2006 - 11:11pm PT
PD, you want to explain how you rigged it up so that the device could "torque oddly", as you put it?

Kong stuff is really nice BTW, I have no idea why they don't have better marketing in the US.

Years ago I scored a pile of their keylock biners in all shapes n sizes, and I have totally enjoyed em.

They also make a HUGE fat solid aluminum rap ring, that I wish I could get more of.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2006 - 11:51pm PT
"I am a lame ass climber who doesn't know sh*@t, but I've had a pro traxion completely break on me..."

Well, you know a piece of junk when you use it!

"Kong stuff is really nice BTW, I have no idea why they don't have better marketing in the US."

It doesn't matter - get yer Kong stuff from me. I'm in Canada, but can ship to the States no probs. My McTopo email is legit, so lemme know if I can help you with any Kong stuff.
Mimi

climber
Sep 7, 2006 - 11:57pm PT
Hey Pete, are you heading for the ditch soon? What fine route are you doing this time?
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2006 - 12:00am PT
Tomorrow. The Shield [or possibly Mushroom] depending on the crowds. #31 El Cap route with any luck! Woo-hoo!
Mimi

climber
Sep 8, 2006 - 12:03am PT
How bout some real adventure and leave the hammer. You wall stud.
Mimi

climber
Sep 8, 2006 - 12:38am PT
Hey Pete, cat got your favorite tool?
Wade Icey

Social climber
Sep 8, 2006 - 12:57am PT
"..I've had a pro traxion completely break on me while a load was being lowered out from below, with the second riding out the haul bags...Luckily I backed up the device with a knot just after the pully, before the lower out, and so my partner and all the haul bags did not fall to their deaths. "

your partner was riding the haul bags?

dirtineye

Trad climber
the south
Sep 8, 2006 - 01:26am PT
So Pete, can you get those Kong fat aluminum rap rings, and how much are they in US dollars?

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