Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 27, 2009 - 01:29pm PT
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I was wanting to update my old topos for some newer routes and noticed that Top Draw is not compatible with Windows Vista. Bummer. I still have my old computer that I could use, but I wanted to move to a long term solution.
I looked at upgrading to Illustrator but about sh#t when I saw the price tag for the Vista compatible version, or to upgrade from AI 10 (which I have) to a Vista compatible version. I have been messing around with Open Office, and I really like the export to PDF option built in, but I figure there might be something else out there I don't know about.
So, what are you guys using these days? Hand drawn scans and Photo Overlays (except for general alignment) R Teh Poop, so please don't recommend those :) It must Vector based and preferably with a built in PDF export, though I do have Acrobat so it is not a must.
Any info appreciated!
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2009 - 02:53pm PT
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Thanks for the link. I liked it for photo editing but I have Adobe Photoshop to get as technical as I want with that. I just checked out Serif DrawPlus and Creative Doc.Net's free vector software and I would say CD's was best, but I wonder about how long it will be supported? All of this is leading me to stay with Open Office. Their drawing program is remarkably good and I would guess it be around for awhile as they seem to have a pretty big marketing campaign going on right now.
If your in the market for a Vector based drawing application but don't want to spend any money for it, I would say Open Office is probably the best of the current "free" crop. It has built in PDF export (as does CD).
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More Air
Big Wall climber
S.L.C.
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Sep 27, 2009 - 03:23pm PT
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Illustrator CS1 is what I use, and I've had positive feed back on by topos. I bought an older ugraded version on line for just over $100...it was well worth it.
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Mike.
climber
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Sep 27, 2009 - 04:59pm PT
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Some are using more automated processes, as was one person that boasted his wares here in the last couple of years. Automating hatch marks is the principle issue. In the end, illustrated topos are illustrations, and without some aesthetic input (read: mind/hand work) a topo will only look and work so well. The topos I've seen generated using the shortcutting methods, to me, don't look as nice. Undoubtedly they were not fussed over as much, either.
Illustrator is the graphic industry's standard illy SW. Most all the SuperTopos started as hand drawn templates from which Illustrator art was made. I think more recently Chris has put more into the hand drawns and used scans of those as final art to bypass the vector art creation.
Being most topos are just a bunch of lines, type and symbols, any drawing program (or drawing tools within other programs) will "create" a good topo. Depends what you're used to using and/or what you're willing to spend. Ultimately, design and illustration sense do more to make a good climbing topo than any SW. With that said, Illustrator does have some nice features including full type capabilities...and many others that no guide book producer would probably ever need.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2009 - 05:40pm PT
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I use a vector program to not just do the actual topos, but also for the page layout etc. I got really good with Top Draw as it was easy to use, but alas not Vista compatible.
Open Office yields a pretty good result as well, just takes a bit more finagling. Here is an example:
If I was to do this for more than just beyond "fun" aka selling topos, I would go with Illustrator for sure, but I just have a hard time spending that much for a program that I use to plunk around with and considering I have already bought it retail once. (well not exactly true I got the student version/discount).
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Mike.
climber
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Sep 27, 2009 - 05:51pm PT
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Right on, Roughster. Resourcefulness is a great tool. Way cheaper than Creative Suite 3, to be sure...
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Sep 27, 2009 - 08:16pm PT
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I've tried to use Illustrator a few times but just never liked the curve drawing options. Just my own bias. Don't mind the general Adobe interface, just the bezier junk on AI.
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Alex Baker
climber
Portland
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Sep 27, 2009 - 08:34pm PT
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I suggest Inkscape.
Free, open source, easy to learn. Vector Graphics.
Alex
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2009 - 07:18am PT
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Wow Inkscape is nice, we may have found a winner! Thanks for the link!
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Tim Camuti
Trad climber
CA
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Nov 28, 2009 - 01:30am PT
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I really enjoy BetaCreator http://sites.google.com/site/betacreator/ because of a few basic reasons-
1. Creates a new file automatically so you do not write over your original photo
2. Features Undo
3. Multiple icons built in.
4. Stores the climbing beta that you draw in a data file so you can EASILY go back and EDIT your topo if you mess something up. You don't have to redraw the entire thing onto the original photo, nor does your fix job erase underlying photo pixels. A fantastic product.
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smith curry
climber
nashville,TN
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Nov 28, 2009 - 05:36am PT
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It might be cheaper/easier to dual boot you computer with both windows XP and Vista, and use that OS when doing topo stuff.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Nov 28, 2009 - 10:55am PT
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I created topos like this with Serif DrawPlus 4.0 (free) and laid them all together to create a folded guide easily with text, cover, page numbering etc with Serif PagePlus (9 bucks).
The topos were drawn over a photo in drawplus with a sketch tablet, the photo was removed then the file was exported to PagePlus where text and symbols were added and the whole layout was put together. Can be exported as a PDF or CD.
I did my whole Pine Canyon (Mt Diablo) guide with it. Turned out pretty good.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Nov 28, 2009 - 11:25am PT
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I do my topos in a program called Designer, that I've been using since 1990 (various versions). Corel swallowed them up a few years back, but like any tool that works, if it does what you want, there's no need to replace it.
I take topos straight out of this program, dumped to EPS format into Adobe InDesign and it comes out crystal clear.
Most people don't have the desire (or maybe the tenacity) to put as much time into a stupid topo as I do sometimes, but I'm pretty efficient after all these years. Even more senseless is that I'll do this for no particular purpose (I'm probably done publishing guidebooks).
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Nov 28, 2009 - 06:59pm PT
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Steelmnkey; "Wow" that topo is top notch, I can't even imagine doing a whole guide like that. You'd be in the hundreds of hours, even without all the time spent on research, written literature, layout and all that. Props!
Hey Rough, you still got that guide to the Nut Tree Boulders you were working on? I'd love a copy of that, just for shits and giggles if possible. Would be nice to have names for boulders and problems when people ask me instead of saying, that one boulder with that thingy on it.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 28, 2009 - 07:34pm PT
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Steelmnkey; "Wow" that topo is top notch, I can't even imagine doing a whole guide like that
Yeah, but what you have to remember is that Greg has spent a cumulative total of about 2.5 million years baking his brain in the Arizona heat.
The things you "can't imagine" him doing (others use less polite terminology) don't seem weird or strange to him. Those of us who have spent less time in the sun, however... Well, what can I say?
Actually, since I've used and very much appreciated those topos he draws, what I will say is "Thank God for that heat!!!
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 28, 2009 - 07:37pm PT
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steelmnkey
Most topos may look stupid, but yours are always a pleasure to the "eye".
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Nov 28, 2009 - 08:08pm PT
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Thanks guys.
C'mon David... I could say the same about you and too much ice on the brain and not enough in the scotch... :-)
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 28, 2009 - 09:02pm PT
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too much ice on the brain and not enough in the scotch
Ice in Scotch? Even with all that ice on my brain I'm not about to ruin good Scotch by watering it down with ice. Of course, if I was stuck on a space ship for three years, and the only Scotch was some blended crap, and there was nothing else to drink, I might eventually...
No. I'd push whoever brought the blended whiskey out the airlock, and toss the whiskey out after him. Better to be sober.
You coming up here next year Greg?
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