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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jul 29, 2009 - 04:09am PT
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Man I wish all of the families peace, give big props to ISAR, and wish a speedy recovery to those who were injured.
MUCCI
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jul 29, 2009 - 05:47am PT
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Rick,
It sounds like too many accidents happened on Friday and ISAR did not have enough people to cover them all?
But that is no excuse for having the dispatcher tell you people were coming when they were not. That's bad communication.
I can understand it if they choose to divert the helicopter / people to the evac of Jesse with the broken leg on Temple Crag. But if plans changed, they should have called you back, so you were informed about delays.
1.5 hours of CPR on a guy, alone - that's rough. Then sitting there for 5 hours with a dead guy and bad communication - must have been extremely frustrating.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 29, 2009 - 11:34am PT
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What was wrong with the call out? Again I don't know the details, but it would be normal to get a crew rolling from Bishop, meet at the Lone Pine Airport for transport if their was a helo available and fly up to do a recovery.
That the SAR was resolved entirely by CHP crew is not unusual, but often there would be a SAR volunteer on the ship to carry, do any first aid and what not. I will say that five hours from call to completion isn't bad. Distance is a time killer in Inyo County.
Chief- you are better at dealing with government types than almost anyone. Go talk to the ISO and tell them what you think could be done better.
Also- Chief, from my personal perspective I need to re-change how I personally think about SAR. When my son was born in December I told my self I'd only go on the rescues where people were in real trouble and needed real help. I have limited time now and I could have very easily been killed on a operation last summer.
What I'm seeing here is that my new rules are wrong, I would not go on a recovery by my new personal rules. On a recovery, the living need help too.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 29, 2009 - 12:31pm PT
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That Was, a class effort!
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 29, 2009 - 12:44pm PT
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Navy Helo SAR?
I thought that was completely phased out and no longer exists?
At least here in Yosemite. Most all hoist ops here are now done by CHP. They've trained here since Lemore phased out and are pretty damn good.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 29, 2009 - 01:31pm PT
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We can get the military still, but my understanding is that it's hard.
That being said, there was a bad head injury on the mountaineers route in the spring/winter. Our guys got there and settled in for a long night with a grim outcome expected. One of the deputies was able to find a Marine Helo that was on a night training down south. The Marines sent two, big old things (I don't know what they were bigger than blackhawks) up the north fork of lone pine creek after midnight and picked everyone up. The victim lived. Give me the willies to think about, but good on them.
The military can still come through, but its rare these days. I've heard it has to do with that crash in Yosemite that busted up a rescuer and killed the victim. Cathedral gully I believe.
Forest Service, CHP, Park Service, and every once and a while Fish and Game, are the helo suppliers these days.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 29, 2009 - 01:35pm PT
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Hopefully your fine efforts to help will be good karma, as you were undoubtedly aware that, except in drowning or electrocution, somebody who doesn't come back after a much shorter period of CPR, particularly in the backcounty, isn't coming back.
Your efforts will probably comfort the family of the fallen, as they know somebody cared for the victim enough to be there for them.
Hopefully this thread will lead to consideration that will make things better in the future
PEace
Karl
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 29, 2009 - 01:40pm PT
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Chief
My understanding NAS Lemoore SAR is not allowed anymore in Yosemite.
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mooch
Big Wall climber
The Immaculate Conception
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Jul 29, 2009 - 02:38pm PT
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Very much alive and well in China Lake....flying H-60's these days.
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slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 29, 2009 - 02:44pm PT
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Chief, I respect your frustration with the mis-communication quagmire. You obviously have been around the block enough times to expect better.
But the only question I would ask: why did you go alone to begin with?
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Jul 29, 2009 - 03:13pm PT
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We all know that SAR's take for fukkin ever even at the best of times.... (I guess unless you are military) Many the time some poor bastard gets hurt at midday and is assured a long night out. Seen it, done it.... don't like it. Not entirely sure why it happens. Any time the giant machine gets involved, time will start to crawl.
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Jul 29, 2009 - 04:28pm PT
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one of the better fake avatars, imo.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 29, 2009 - 07:18pm PT
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Lawyers? That ain't good for anyone, except the lawyer I should say.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Jul 29, 2009 - 07:33pm PT
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Quief, or Fartwad,
you're outa line on this one....I don't usually get too pissed off on this forum, because anal pores like you aren't worth the time, but you've probably never had someone die on you while you're busting your asss to save them, or yer some fartwad on the SAR that never got there and are pissed off because someone is criticizing you. The Chief IS a good guy, not full of himself, looking for self promotion. He did what he could to try to save someones life and made the calls and was told help was coming.....told a freaking lie! He's pissed because the system he works with is busted and he wants it fixed because it may have cost a life!!! NO ONE can forecast the probability of survival, and if you think they can, yer phucking crazy to think that way. Would be interesting to see if it were your loved one that got blown off by SAR if you would have the same self rightious attitude.
Chief I hope this gets solved one way or another and I hope you just blow these kinda......fartwad off, not worth your time.
Peace
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jul 29, 2009 - 07:37pm PT
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What Ron said.
Thanks for your effort Chief. You have my deepest respect.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 29, 2009 - 07:49pm PT
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Ron- I was going to ignore Quief, no real name anonymous spew, but since you bring it up, I agree with you. Quief, you're a dick.
I disagree about the forecast of someone's survival. A heart attack in the wilderness, that's so bad to require CPR, is pretty much lights out. We are talking miracle odds here. It doesn't mean you shouldn't try. The chief did what he was supposed to do and then some.
I disagree with the assessment that somebody was lying. It's possible I guess, and I don't know what was said, nor by whom, but it seems to me unlikely that someone, a dispatcher, or a deputy, was lying.
A helo came, that is a direct SAR response, coordinated by Inyo County Sheriff Deputies who are in charge of the SAR volunteers.
The argument here is about appropriate SAR response, level of SAR response, or possibly required SAR response, or improving a SAR response.
Chief- like I said, that Marine Response on the Mountaineers route saved a man. A deputy, who had been told of the severity of the situation based on a single statement from one of the Inyo SAR volunteers, kept working into the night to find a chopper that could fly at night after all others are grounded until daylight. The SAR volunteer said, "Mt.Dade," and the Deputy needed no other description of the severity of the situation.
The Marines owed us one anyway. We plucked three of their guys off a cliff in the North Fork Of lone pine creek just a few months before that.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 29, 2009 - 07:59pm PT
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The Chief (not to be confused with Chief = Perry) seems to have removed his earlier post(s), about an undoubtedly difficult experience. Whatever else happened, he seems to have done his best, in stressful circumstances.
It seems to have been a very busy time for Inyo S&R. As to what happened in terms of search management and allocation of resources, presumably the post-rescue debriefing and reports will cover it. Perhaps there's something that can be learned from what happened, and improvements can be made. There seems insufficient information to come to any conclusion at this point.
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Jul 29, 2009 - 08:00pm PT
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I can't answer to or comment upon the logistics of what happened, but I have to say that if a loved one of mine was about to go "lights out" and was beyond immediate rescue help, I hope to God (or whomever) that they would have someone there with them who tried their hardest to save them and at the very least gave a sh*t about trying to get them rescued and didn't give up whether an hour later or five hours later...and then gave a sh*t enough to realize that maybe things weren't handled as well as they COULD have been and tried to keep it from happening again to someone else.
Edit - not meant to say that SAR personnel don't care...really a response to the "Quief" post and a thank you to The Chief.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
slowly dying in the OC
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Jul 29, 2009 - 08:05pm PT
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I'm with Ron.
I've had the unfortunate experince of having someone die on a climb. I've also performed CPR on someone while waiting for help. Neither is any fun. I can't imagine why The Chief got bad info on incoming assistance - that I guess will come out eventually.
There's no reason to bag on The Chief either. He did what any number of long-time mountaineers would do - he dropped everything to assist someone else in their time of need. Pure unselfish action. Kudos to The Chief!
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