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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 4, 2009 - 10:24am PT
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Looks like it's time I delve into the world of ice climbing.
Oh wise ones help this raw n00b with a few clues on what to look for in tools.
anyone got any they are parting with?
naturen00b
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clemay
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Borrow or rent(if possible) as many brands as you can before you buy. That way if you like it, you know which tools work for you to buy. Forewarning... ice climbing can be addictive ;-)
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climbrunride
Trad climber
Durango, CO
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Start with some old-school straight shaft tools from a garage sale or eBay. You'll learn good technique and look super cool. Then when you get a feel for it, it will be easier to decide what you like and don't like, what features you prefer, fit preferences, etc.
It's a bit like buying your first pair of rock shoes - easier to start with some used ones.
Come up to Durango this winter and we can play on some fun ice!
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F10
Trad climber
e350
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Nature, did hell freeze over?
It's probably 147 degrees in Tucson
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2009 - 10:42am PT
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"Blessed are those who live out their dream".
I've been sitting far too long. It's time I play hard. Find the A game again.
Marty: deal - we will. Maybe we can get Donini to play with us in Ouray too?
knucklesmashing straight shafts, right? Bloody knuckles will look hot.
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Step Beyond!
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mmm...screaming barfies!
Good times.
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Haggis
Trad climber
Scotland
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Are you mainly climbing snow, pure ice, mixed routes, dry tooling or a combination of any these?
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Cowlowraado is just next door to you, lot's o ice in
wintertime, at least until global climate change takes over.
Black Diamond rules. Double, skinny, dry ropes.
A HELMET!
BD's Rage tools are great, but curved. I used them for a few
seasons before I graduated to the BD Viper.
C'mon up here and we can play!!!!
Edit
You gotta wear more than that pink thong, it's COLD on the ICE!
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Hey Nature, Haggis asks a most important question.
What you intend to climb makes a big difference as to the gear you use.
Climbing Ames ice hose is completely different than climbing Denali.
A good bet would be to attend an ice workshop where you can demo many tools and cramps to see what you like. The most important gear will be your boots. Great footwear makes all the difference. There again what you intend to (mostly) climb will determine the type of boot you will want. Single pitch water ice in the lower 48 or frigid high altitude in Alaska or South America. I suggest you rent gear for an outing with experienced icemen. Ice climbing is an acquired taste (like Ouzo). See if you like it before you drop 500 or a grand on shiny new tools. Get the boots first.
For the record my preference for steep water ice is;
Kayland M11s, leashless Charlet Quarks and Rambo comps.
Also... wear a helmet!
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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nature,
Schedule a trip to Ouray on opening weekend in Dec and keep in touch with me. It's a tradition for a bunch of us and you're welcome to join up and test a bunch of tools and listen to a bunch of opinions. My current favs for water ice?
Tools:
Petzl Nomics
Camp Awax
Crampons:
I prefer the rigid frame crampons but they are out of fashion now. I like the solid kick and the stable platform of the Trango Harpoons (discontinued) the DMM Terminators or the Grivel Rambos. The cool people are all wearing flexy crampons... God knows why.
Helmet:
I don't like foam helmets because they're only good for one bang. Most of the time I wear our Trango CPU helmet, but a Petzl Ercin Roc has saved my life (or at least my head) twice. What matters is that you wear one all the time.
Climb safe,
Mal
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Minime
Social climber
moab, Ut
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Wow......wus up with wanting to climb ice?
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2009 - 02:39pm PT
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rumor on the street is that chicks dig it. wish me luck, minime. she won't know what hit her.
I might be a n00b but I do have a helmet and will wear it. Seems all to obvious. I got the Petzl Ercin Roc.Petzl Ercin Roc
Malcolm.... cool thanks. We'll make a plan.
Hey minime... wanna go ice climbing if the Prescott chick says no?
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Minime
Social climber
moab, Ut
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Dude. I'm your plan B. Right on with scoring a hot climbing chick. Heard she's got game.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Cobra
Been ice climbing 15 years and wouldn't even consider another tool. Except maybe Nomics for a "sport" ice tool.
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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am i walking into another bear trap here? i remember replying to "nOObie seeks harness advice" in my first weeks here and suggesting something i thought nOObie appropriate. soon after a pal emailed me a link to your Vampire Spire TR. nOObie indeed...
~~~
so, did you play little league baseball as a kid? i did. defensively, i was a pretty competent 2nd baseman. offensively, i almost never struck out -- but alas i almost never hit the ball past second base.
i mention this because picking ice tools is like picking your bat out of the ever changing little league team stack. i'd pick up all the bats in the stack that weren't huge fatties (or aluminum); then give all the remaining wood skinnies a couple swings. then i'd just pick the one that felt right. it something you just feel in your gut. ice tools are like that.
the better ice guiding outfits are set up to allow clients with at least basic skills a chance to try a wide range of current ice tools. as you have many pals quite capable of showing you the frozen ropes, paying for a guide makes little sense. but i suspect that a polite request and just a couple bucks would get you access to trying out all the various currrent ice tools these outfits have on hand. another option is going to one of the ice fests, like ouray -- there too you can get access to most major tools. but in that circus environment it is hard to concentrate on anything. so i'd recommend contacting the better and larger guiding outfits and going that route to swing all of the available bats, in a quiet place where you can hear your gut.
for you just gotta actually swing these bats to know what matches your build and natural swing. all the major manufacturers offer quality and technically sly tools. but the one that works for you is surely the most subjective gear call in all of climbing's many variants. even if one tool gets 5 stars from all the glossy rags and such, and all the competition get no more than 2 stars, it doesn't matter. we're all built different and swing different. so try everything before you plunk down the $250+ per tool. i really like the balance and the angle of swing (more a wrist flick and slight pull down) of my quarks.
~~~
a tougher issue, and one that has not been mentioned above, is footwear. and that's an important part of yor kit -- more important than even ice tools. i'd much rather climb with 2nd rate tools and good boots than the opposite (i've done both variants). i can only offer this advice: avoid double boots and plastic in general. go light and stiff. i myself dig my sportiva trango extreme evo lights. light, warm enough for most anything, stiff enough to stick a crampon with confidence, good top end ergonomics to be flexible enough for approaches and all that ice that isn't especially steep. one does need to "smear" on ice, often.
i've found the uber-light alpine boots neither warm enough nor stiff enough for reliable crampon plants when the going gets steep. that and the plastic doubles are like having sex wearing four condoms. you gotta look down to see if the plant is on target as you certainly can't feel it. as with rock climbing, on ice knowing what your feet are doing is as important as knowing what your fingers (or ice tools) are doing.
i've done a bunch of no-name piddly 6km peaks with these sportivas and a pair of 40 below k2 overboots. any problems i had up there had nothing to do with cold feet. boots worked fine, i like them alot.
perhaps the larger guide outfits offer a range of boot types to try, but i have not heard tell of this. those few i know personally don't -- simply too expensive to stock so many boots (in all those sizes) as they don't get the support from the boot manufacturers that they get from the ice tool manufacturers. ideally, you (like i) have a pretty standard foot size and many pals with a range of footwear willing to let you check them out.
~~~
finally, here's my kit of recent years:
a pair of sportiva trango extreme evo lights
a pair of forty below k2 superlight overboots (for when it's crazy cold, or i go especially high)
a pair of petzl sarken t10 crampons
a pair of petzl quarks (one w/adze, one w/hammer)
a 62cm petzl cosmi-tec ice axe (for long moderate alpine stuff, sometimes paired with the quark hammer)
fwiw, just that stuff above costs more than US$1200 (retail). add a pair of dry doubles, screws, and of course 3 or 4 yates screamers (essential) and, sheesh, maybe you should try something cheap, like polo...
my preferred gig is soloing moderate alpine stuff and piddly water ice, so all my tools are leashed. while i have goofed off with friends' leashless tools on toproped mixed insanity (kind of the sport climbing of ice), i have no worthwhile insights into the leashless stuff.
~~~
well, as a final thought, if you want dogboy results by all means use dogboy gear. (bwaaahaaahaaa &etc)
though if you are fool enough to drive past all the great ice in CO and WY (and not keep going to Cranmore), i'd be happy to ice climb with you (just bring pounds of ama-ebi, aji-saba, and hamachi).
^,,^
[EDIT: it took me so long to write this (while eating lunch and doing laundry) that i didn't notice when Philo and maldaly posted what little i had to offer in the interim. typical. good lunch though... sushi]
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Robb
Social climber
It's like FoCo in NoCo Daddy-O!
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Didn't see if anyone mentioned it above, but DON'T FORGET EYE PROTECTION!!!
Go for it Nature!
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Haggis
Trad climber
Scotland
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I have always found gloves to be the hardest purchase in this arena.
I have about 10 pairs from different companies for different things and I still cant make up my mind. just when I think I have it sorted I f*#k something up and get chill blanes or get the draw stuck on the thumb.
or you could climb in Ouray and not need them
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perswig
climber
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Nature, if nothing else works out, let me know. I'll loan you a pair of Vipers with Android leashes (if you're into that) to try for the season. Good all-round weapon.
Dale
(Welcome to the machine.)
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nature,
Consider the Ouray Ice Festival in mid-Jan. Most vendors of ice tools will be there with demos. There are also a lot of clinics and parties. The "Ice Park" is likely the best venue anywhere to cut your teeth, or sink your tools, or whatever...
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Yeah, demoing tools first is a good idea, borowing friends different tools is an alternative to the festival circus's. It will help you decide on Cobras quicker!
Hey Dale, how are ya!
Matt from VW ~2000ish
Thin gloves are the way to go. 2-3 pairs in the pack, since you want them dry. If it's really cold bring belay mits and one less pair of thins.
And did I say Cobras... Yeah they are sweet. For Alpine stuff the old Cobras have a better hammer. Or bring a third too w/hammer for pins.
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