Anyone with DVT (deep vein thrombosis) experience/knowledge?

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philo

Trad climber
boulder, co.
Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 30, 2009 - 06:27pm PT
A funny thing happened on the way to my son's 10th birthday.
For 8 of his past 10 birthdays my son has been out of town. This year I was finally going to spend his day with him. YEAH! He specifically requested a climbing party. I thought that was way cool so it was all set up. I was so excited that he wanted to do my thing. Then the day before his day everything changed. I ended up getting rushed to the hospital ER with an excruciatingly painful blood clot in my calf. All the medicos were scurrying around acting like I was about to croak. Which I was told was really quite possible. Once started on a blood thinning regimen I was told to be extra careful about bumps, scrapes and cuts. I thought, yeah sure. I am an old Black Canyon dirtbag. What constitutes "being careful"? So I spent a day gardening and landscaping. Big mistake! The next day I looked like I was on the losing end of a prize fight. Holy crap I thought they were not kidding. So my question is how long should I expect to be the accidental hemophiliac? As it stands it seems that just one 5.10 sticker bush in the Black would be enough to bleed me out. And how long should I expect the PAIN to last? Even on the good stuff I am losing sleep to the pain. Anyone in TacoLand have any background information they would consider sharing. Or should I just sell all my gear and take up Canasta?
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Jun 30, 2009 - 06:37pm PT
Phil,
No experience, but hoping you get well soon!
Rick
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jun 30, 2009 - 06:40pm PT
hey there philo... oh my... this is awful... say, is this due to a temporary medication, or do you need this for permanent now...

all i know (which is not good and does not fully apply to you) is that my dear friend from texas, after taking a long flight across seas, came back and had a terrible pain in her chest... turned out it was a blood clot and she died outside on the ambulance!!!! (she did however have two larged cancer tumors that had not been detected yet, so they may have contributed to the blood clots, not just the plane ride---but these deep vein trhombosis stuff are just as deadly)...

say, i am so very glad you were taken care of and that you are still with u...

say--folks do not know this, and i did not either... but even folks that have had a "so called" simple accident, can die from that deep vein thrombosis... it is very sad, as the recovery can look so good, otherwise...

in south texas a young football player died from a blood clot, just a few days after he was home from an injury to his leg...

i thanked god everyday that my son was well, after his two football injuries--i had never known such a thing...

god bless you... say, please let us know how you are doing, once you figure this all out...

sure do hope that you will still be a wonderful climbing machine!
Gene

climber
Jun 30, 2009 - 06:41pm PT
Been there, Philo, after a knee reconstruction. Developed clots in my feet and upper leg. Had to get shots in my ample tummy for a few weeks and then a year or two of Cumadin, both blood thinners. At first I felt like a peach - if you looked at me cross-eyed, I'd bruise. At times I felt I had a stigmta the way I bled from scratches. Over that now. Don't sell your gear. Just look at it for a while until the MD says OK.

Don't get in a car accident like I did. Having survived a knee rebuild and DVT, I am now getting over rotator cuff surgery from the accident. Dumb child was texting when she plowed into us.

Best,
gm

EDIT: I was back climbing with the doc's blessing while still on Cumadin.
Reilly

Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
Jun 30, 2009 - 06:41pm PT
Best wishes for a speedy recovery but shouldn't you be asking your doctors? 'We' don't exactly have access to your chart.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jun 30, 2009 - 06:45pm PT
hey there say, philo...

say, i forgot to add that my neighbor still takes the blood thinner, but hers is due to a heart condition... she does some gardening, but surely is not a climber... but she can bleed easy...

perhaps you will not always have to take this??? what did your doc say? ...

wow, sure hope time will change things...
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Jun 30, 2009 - 07:16pm PT
I have had 3 blood clots diagnosed. A grouping in my arm when I had to have intravenous antibiotics to fight a bone infection. One in my lungs ( which nearly killed me as part broke off and I had a mild stroke, thankfully it happened in the hospital and they gave me this med that broke up clots immediately. I can't remember what it is called, but it cost 10,000 dollars a dose, youch.. How they diagnosed the stroke was the left side of my face was sagging and I was slurring my speech. I now have weakness on my left side. ), and one in my leg. ( I had another clot in my leg this winter but didn't go to the doc, plus I have had another in my arm ) So I believe that I have had 5 times when i have had clots, though only 3 were diagnosed. The best guess that docs gave me was that it was an inherited condition, but I could not afford the tests and the conclusions sort of didn't matter as the treatment was the same. At least to my understanding. Except if it is not an inherited condition and is a result of some trauma, then they sometimes believe it is okay to come off the blood thinners.

My doc advised against all outdoor activities. Especially no skiing or climbing. Nothing that could have a fall involved in it. He even wanted me to stop backpacking as the heavy pack could cause clots in my shoulders. Needless to say, I was very bummed. I have never been a super outdoorsman, but I do love the outdoors and it was hard to stop doing the things that I loved.

Eventually I discovered that I had sensitivities to the blood thinners, both coumadin and plavix, plus I was having trouble with intestinal bleeding and now I just take aspirin. I have to watch that also as it also irritates my intestines. I also try to ingest lots of natural blood thinners. Here is a good page for info on this.

http://www.ctds.info/natthinners.html

Because I came off the thinners and have decided to just risk it, I went cross country skiing this winter for the first time in 9 years. Yippie !!!

I with that I could help you more. Hopefully someone here will chime in as my info is old and I never really got a handle on the whole blood clot thing as I had so many other health problems to deal with.

One thing to note, some spiritualist say that problems with blood clots indicate an anger towards God. I can only tell you that I have noticed a seeming correlation between how pissed off I am at life and how often I get clots. The more pissed off I am, the more often they appear. This is just my experience and I am not advocating stopping medical treatment. My spiritual teachers advise using both spiritual help and medical help, especially in something as dangerous as blood clots.


John

Wow, I just read that gene went back to climbing while on blood thinners, with his docs blessings. All my docs advised against it. I will say this, I also noticed that I was more susceptible to bruises my first year on blood thinners. That might have something to do with finding the right dose and balance with the foods that you eat. Good luck bro.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jun 30, 2009 - 07:59pm PT
hey there say, john moosie... oh my... what a story... say, i am very happy you got your ski trip!!!!.... what a hard thing to lay aside, too---the great outdoors... but you still have wonderful things here to share about what you have done in the past... and, somehow, you are STILL who you are, inside... :)


to philo and all:
you know, i have heard the stuff about "anger" too, hurting the body (not that THAT was your trouble) i am just sharing what i had heard too (and as to heart attack personality, too)...

i guess if you look at it like this... blood is like a river and if there are hard-core things that block the 'happy flow' things could knot-up inside...

there must be some kind of a chemical reaction that takes place that we don't understand---other than the inheritance part, as that can't be helped...


and injury traumas, too, can't be helped...

but it sure brings the fact to home, that our bodies are MUCH more complicated than they seem, though, the system itself seems it should be so simple:

one part, just helping the other part, work...

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 30, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
be careful!

THC is said to be an excellent blood thinner, You could take a trip west and get a scrip.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Arid-zona
Jun 30, 2009 - 10:27pm PT
Philo:


Your condition is very serious and you should take it seriously. A DVT can result in fairly rapid death if a clot breaks loose. I assume you are on coumadin but you could be on some other drugs. If you are on coumadin (aka warfarin) you should make sure to eat the same number of leafy green veggies on a daily basis. The vitamin K in leafy greens will greatly affect the drug's efficacy and so if you eat varying amounts your providers will have a hard time adjusting the dose to a safe but therapeutic range.

You should likely avoid strenuous activity until you are cleared by your provider. Heavy exercise can potentially bust a clot loose which as I said would be bad. Likewise, you should avoid prolonged periods of inactivity such as long airplane flights, long uninterrupted car rides and continuous hours of posting on Supertopo. There are many DVT prevention activities recommended to help break up long periods of necessary sitting and you can find them easily by Googling around. I would get really serious about not sitting for more than 45 minutes without doing the DVT prevention exercises.

Make sure to follow up with your provider for long term care. You quite possibly have a coagulation disorder which would require long-term treatment and monitoring. Please do the research and ask the questions of your primary care provider that ensure you have the knowledge and understanding you need to continue living healthily. If you haven't scheduled a follow-up appt with your provider you should do that right now. Good luck man!
Ezra

Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
Jun 30, 2009 - 11:29pm PT
High desertDJ said it all basically.
If you have insurance the genetic testing may be worth it, just for your kids knowledge.
They'll test you for
Protein S and C deficiency
Factor V leiden mutation (activated protein C resistance)
Anti-thrombin III deficiency
Prothrombin 2010 mutation
Homocystenemia (what Tarbuster has)
That's all I remember off the top of my head.

Take the trauma bit seriously... avoid it.

You usually end up on Coumadin for 3-6 months with your first clot.

best
-e
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
way, WAY out there....(OMG)
Jun 30, 2009 - 11:35pm PT
Hope ya do ok, there, Philo...
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jul 1, 2009 - 01:08am PT
Phil
I had lunch with Crimpie today and she told me about this. . .


Man, you have been on a bad run. Please take care and
get better. A friend of mine had a similar thing happen,
and it seemed he was on coumadin (sp?) for a year, and then
the doctor let him off of it. Probably no two cases are alike,
but in any event, you've got lots of support here.
Steve the pollack
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jul 1, 2009 - 01:49am PT
Does the "one child aspirin/day" routine help with this? I believe that all men over 50 are supposed to take one, unless told otherwise, and that there's a demonstrated benefit, which must relate to strokes and heart attacks.
philo

Trad climber
boulder, co.
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2009 - 11:15am PT
Thank you all very much for the wonderful responses. I will fill in more info later today when I return.
Cracko

Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
Jul 1, 2009 - 12:47pm PT
Philo,

Back in the late 70's, I was hospitalized with viral encephalitus, and while hospitalized in a coma, I developed plebitus and clotting in my left calf. This turned into deep vein thrombosis, and then pulmonary edema when one of the clots broke loose and lodged in my lung. Heparin and Coumidin were administered in the hospital and all was well. I remained on a Coumidin regimen for several months after that. In the end, I ended up with what is called chronic venous insufficiency which I have to this day. I've been wearing prescription pressure gradient support stockings for thirty years. I have had several other episodes of deep vein clotting and swelling (most notably after a trans-atlantic flight to europe, but otherwise have not had any lasting effects (other than the pantyhose!). A year after I recovered from pulmonary edema, I rode my bike from Canada to Mexico. In the years since, I have climbed Half Dome, El Cap, and a half dozen other walls; and remain a pretty active climber. My doctor seems to think that all this activity is probably good for my circulation as long as I keep wearing the support stockings. It just hasn't slowed me down.


Cracko
dr. jay

climber
petaluma, ca
Jul 2, 2009 - 08:42am PT
do you know how you got the clot in the first place? usually they develop after a period of inactivity (long trip or extended immobilization) or trauma to the leg itself. sometimes there's a predisposition due to genetic factors--see above--or an underlying malignancy, but not always. as long as the clot stays in the calf you're allright, since 95% of the time they don't cut loose, but the problem arises when they extend upwards into the thigh and pelvis veins where they are much more likely to embolize. for an isolated calf clot you should expect 6 months to a year of anticoagulation (and all the lame limitaions that go along with it). the pain should get better once the clot stabilizes and your body is able to shunt the blood around the blockage so the pressure in the leg isn't so high. how long that takes is different for everyone, here's to hoping for you that it is very soon.
philo

Trad climber
boulder, co.
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2009 - 11:59am PT
You all are wonderful and your responses tremendously valuable to me.
Some of your stories are very scary and you have my admiration for what you have been through. Neebee you are as sweet as Tupelo honey and if I ever get to meet you I want to just wrap you up in a giant hug of affection and appreciation.
So this has all been bizarre to say the least. I just pulled through the injury to my 18 year old prosthetic knee when this happened. I was even planning a return to the Black. Now I am conflicted and don't know what leg to limp on. Research shows that one of the leading contributing factors to developing clots is knee replacement surgery. But not 18 years later and on the other leg. There was no trauma involved but it appears I do have one of the genetic anomalies that make for rapidly clotting blood. Which was nice for all those years in the Black Canyon where lacerations from pegmatite and sticker bushes would usually scab up before I got the anchor set. The only contributing factor (other than thick blood) that I can think of was prolonged inactivity. First the horrendous thunderstorm weather moved in. As a lightning strike survivor lightning always pegs my anxiety meter. So I hunkered down. Then the horrible news from China started dribbling out. Jonny was a friend for 9 years and I was torn up. It is kind of funny that anger was mentioned as a contributing factor. Jonny's passing made me mad as hell. I was tired of losing great people. This loss mad me angry. Between the weather and the woe I retreated into a physical and emotional hibernation for a week. I spent days on end sitting in an odd position while glued to the computer desperate for any news. That is the only thing I can conceive of that would have caused a clot to develop. Well due to the blood disorder I will be meeting with a hematologist/oncologist July 9th. Hopefully I won't require life long treatments simply because my blood is thicker than water. I am lucky that my doctor is herself an extreme athlete. She can tell that for 18 years I have taken great care with the artificial knee. She doesn't want me to stop living my life because of this. She just wants me to be careful. Anyway thank you all again. I will keep The TacoStand posted. Carry on.
Gene

climber
Jul 2, 2009 - 12:47pm PT
Thanks for the update Philo. It really helps to have a doc the gets it. Sounds like you are in good hands and know how to take care of yourself. That's at least half the battle.

Best,
gm
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jul 2, 2009 - 01:04pm PT
hey there philo... say, thanks for getting back with us all....
oh MY you sure had a list of many things leading up to this, and not for a good prize... the story of your friend, being the the hardest of all...

good to know about you finding the right doc... that is a tricky part...

say, cracko... what a hard-ride you had with all this... very glad to see you are still getting to pursue your life's trail, and in the way that your heart dictates...


extra note:
you know, philo, and gean (i think it was?) cracko and all:

some stuff you just never do learn in shcool... (kind of like being a mom, as i was for so long--you have to spy out the land and skill-it-out)... well, you guys are soaking-in knowledge (unwanted though it may be)... but say... you will sure be able to help many other folks later that never even heard of this stuff...

too bad we don't learn more of "watch and see" and "read the signs" and all the "what do ifs" for our bodies, in school... as, it can get down-right scary learning it on "the run"...

and worse yet, when we see our friends go through it, and don't know how to help... yet, every case IS different...

well... at least we can all cheer you on! and thus we will!!!!
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