Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 4, 2009 - 08:20pm PT
|
OK, here's the deal. I need a fair amount of dental work to be done - Probably around $6k. I seem to remember there being a number of dentists on this board...
I'm curious if there is a discount for paying cash work? If so, what would it be? I know a lot of doctors do this, where if you are paying cash instead of using insurance, it's about half the cost. Works out the same for the doc, in the end...
I have insurance, but the maximum covered amount is $1500, which doesn't cover sh#t. I'm just kinda curious what to expect when the insurance runs out. Anyone wanna pitch me some advice? Any Fresno dentists want to help a brutha out?
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Dentists are a rip off. Just let your teeth fall out naturally.
|
|
Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
|
|
Generally they require full payment up front, and won't negotiate discounts, very different form the medical profession.
Dentists make 3-4 times what a doctor makes on a per hour basis.
Good luck.
-e
Ps I'm not a dentist
|
|
Ben Rumsen
Social climber
No Name City ( and it sure ain't pretty )
|
|
"Dentists are a rip off. Just let your teeth fall out naturally."
Hahaha !!Then we can call Randy " Gummo " !! HA!
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there nefarious, say, i wish you all kinds of prayer in this...
my experiences with dentist, since childhood and how they ripped off my mom, due to innocence (and great dental insurance, and the abiltiy to pay them good), in her just trying to do what was right, had turned me agains them, as all my teeth are falling out, due to one man's work---he worked in los gatos, near the dmv... long long ago... in the 60's....
*my mom, did take care of our teeth, too--but we had the "annual" dentist thing, as it was taught to her, to do so...
so--not sure if wbraun, is joking or serious, as folks DO have all kinds of humor, here... but i am with him, as to this dentist stuff... mine are just going out natural, as best they can... though--i did have to get some pulled, as they were just too badly damaged, from the huge fillings that man did... it was the only way to get the painful remnants out... without someone else messing it up more...
i sure hope the best for you, and will be praying that something good surfaces... something did, for me that once, and my folks helped me get the mess pulled out...
*ps, for you with kids, i took super good care of my kids teeth, and they never needed on---dont know how it will be as adults, as there life is now there own...
EDIT: nefarious, be very very careful who you pick, if and when you decide... also, check it out throught others, by word of mouth, etc... and do a thorough job of it... before you choose...
|
|
tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
|
|
I used to practice in California.
The half off doesn't work out for the dentist. He charges $1000 for a crown. 50% paid by insurance. He gets $1000. Insurance pays $500, you pay $500.
50% discount for cash pay means You pay $500, insurance pays $0, dentist gets $500 for a crown he pays more than that for? That 50% off for cash is an urban legend.
Maybe we should ask an accountant instead of a dentist!
Health insurance in the US is not like car insurance in BC where ICBC just gave my sister $4000 cash for here car she rolled in the snow the day before Christmas that she paid $3500 for. Health insurance, dental especially, is a group of business people who get monthly payments from you or your employer at say 100/mo. They limit their payout to less than what they are paid. This creates a profit which justifies creating an insurance company.
Paying yourself, or having your employer pay you monthly into an 'insurance' toothbrush fund would be just as effective.
So no, you as a society can't get more out of an insurance plan than you put in, I deal with it every day, and i don't see it happen.
The other thing that bugs me about insurance plans is that people believe that insurance companies are also DDS and know what is best for them. They trust the insurance company to make judgement calls and if they don't pay for a tx, they assume it must not be necessary and the dentist is making stuff up. I do write request letters to companies on behalf of patients, (did this week) in an effort to get them to cover needed tx like implants. Usually they will help out with the crown.
My advise to everyone is to deal with problems before they are big and expensive. Maintain your cars, change the oil, brush your teeth, get regular cleanings, and pay yourself every month. Put money in an account and don't touch it.
6K sounds like you would have root canals/crowns planned, and those are the hardest for a dentist to adjust prices on because the whole crown is made in a lab, so we have to pay the lab, and the only way to make that cheaper is make it out of cheaper metal, which shaves $50 off of an $800 crown, or send it to China to be made. Which I refuse to do. Buy north american, support your neighbors, and get crowns made with pure metals, not all the messed up stuff coming back from China's factories.
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2009 - 09:52pm PT
|
Hey guys - thanks for the info, so far. Appreciate your taking the time. I kind of figured as much. Which takes me to Plan B.
Which is going out of the country for work. I've looked into this a bit, as I know a few people who've gone and had the work done. So I've seen the work I'd be getting done from the dentist I'd be going to. Funny how a trip to Mexico can save me 70% on what I'd pay here, and I get to make a vacation out of it. Sad I have to do that, but welcome to America. A lot of people are doing this now. Karl seems pretty happy with his eye surgery, for instance.
Also, while it may be true that dentists operate a little differently than docs, it's certainly not an urban legend that a good percentage of docs are not only charging less for cash on the spot vs. insurance, but that they are encouraging it, as it is a better deal for them, in the end. I know a number of people who are doing this and have read extensively about it from reputable sources. As far as dentists, though, I'll take your word tooth. You'd certainly know more than me.
Unfortunately, neebee, I think my situation is a lot like what you describe. Had some work done a number of years back when I broke teeth in a climbing fall and it seems as tho the work has caused the issues I have now. Plenty of brushing, etc. happening, to no avail.
Ben - just don't you worry, I can still drink all your wine with my gummos! :) I'll invite Werner too, as his dental plan seems conducive to his contributing to gumming your wine glasses! :)
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
|
|
Nef: I can believe that pinko Karl is all gung-ho on OUTSOURCING, be it his teeth/kidneys/eyes/whatever. It's not surprising to me for him to be getting his work done outside of the evil soil that is America..... but you too?!?!? The Shame!!!111
I've heard the dentist thing is good to go in Mexico. I don't like the fact I will be knocked out with like $2000 bucks in my pocket though. I would bring some heat and a friend. Hate to wake up with no money and no teeth in the Rio Grande. Maybe we can get a "Fleet Rate"?
EDIT: hahahaha! Google is already on to us..... ad from the top of the page:
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2009 - 10:31pm PT
|
hahaha Nice!!! Laughing my ass off. Thanks, Russ.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there nefarious... say, my now-ex, did go to mexico, as we lived right near the border, and he had a root canal done, and we were poor-off and he could pay for it, in spite of that...
but---he had gone through word of mouth, by others that had success through the years, with the same guy, etc, and had no infection and all the "whatevers" that you have to look out for....
so check your resources very careful, first if you do this, and take a friend to watch over you, too...
dont' go in alone...
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there, say... i do believe i've just heard ol' russ passing through these here parts...
:)
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
|
"dont' go in alone..."
Always good advice when heading to Mexico, neebee! Thanks for reminding me. Luckily, one of my best friends' aunt is a dentist in Ensenada, so that sounds pretty good. Soemthing to look into, for sure.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there nefarious... go then... whewwwwwww... hopefully she'll make you some warm "caldo" (soup) after....
:)
god bless...
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
Tooth is(was) a dentist! That makes sense....
I have heard that here in NYC there is a dentist's school one can have work done. Student dentists do the work as part of their education(obviously under supervision), and rates that are less than what one pays a practicing dentist.
Wonder if Tooth can provide any insight on this as an option.
|
|
tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
|
|
Don't do mexico work! I can look at any of it, and now Philipines dental work in someone's mouth, and tell the person where they had it done. People think I'm magic, it screams MEXICO!. Sometimes I'm amazed at how long it lasts, usually they are in to replace it way sooner than is acceptable.
Margins of crowns don't fit, the dentists think it is acceptable to fill them in with cement, which eventually washes out. Then you get food in there under your gums, and no matter how you brush, the food won't come out. then your tooth decays more. And you feel like your brushing didn't do any good. Or they do fillings and leave decay at the bottom of the hole.
I there are always unusual cases, but the majority of what I find from these two countries is like this.
As far as dental schools.... when you get work done there it takes forever. But when the student does a root canal, he has a dentist who is a specialist and usually the textbook author of the best endo texts overseeing them. Same with dentures, etc. USC, University of the Pacific, UCLA, UCSF, Loma Linda School of Dentistry are all in California. UBC in Vancouver. They have much cheaper rates usually, and if you get a senior (they usually don't let you choose, and if you are a guy asking for an asian female 'because she has smaller hands' they will kick you out) the time won't be as much of a factor. Remember, they have to seat you, present to the teacher. Anesthetize you, cut the prep, present to the teacher. Fill the hole. Present to the teacher. It all takes a lot of time. Customer satisfaction is high though.
Mexican/PI dental work makes me cringe. You get what you pay for, even if you don't know it until you loose your teeth.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
India has some well trained dentists who do amazing stuff. My girlfriend got two crowns on her two front teeth, a cleaning and maintenance, and the whole whitening routine, for under $500.
Would have cost thousands here.
Peace
Karl
|
|
Double D
climber
|
|
I've got a great Dentist....
Just email me if you want a referral!
|
|
tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
|
|
Looks like Meth mouth to me Double D.
Karl, I'd love to see radiographs of your girlfriend's crowns. I haven't seen any medical work from there. Spent a month travelling and saw more bad teeth than anywhere except for the high desert.
Oh, Costa Rica. I have a pt. in a few minutes from there. Can't tell the difference between her style of work and Mexico or the PI. I kept some of her teeth that fell out. You could fit a whole kernel of corn under the excess crown under her gums, which is why she was having gum problems 7 years later.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Tooth
The story was that she had her two front teeth knocked out as a kid. The stupid dentist in the states at the time tried to fill the space by squeezing the laterals together to the front with braces.
The Indian dentist ground those laterals down as a basis for the front crowns.
A different dentist I saw in Delhi the year gave me a checkup, scaling, and filled a tooth for $25. We didn't even use novacaine (although I had the option if it hurt) But it didn't hurt and wound up being the least pain I ever had in a filling.
He didn't have quite as modern a gear as Dentist #2 but you can check out his site
http://www.delhidentist.in
The guy took about 15 minutes after the checkup to explain all kinds of things to me. We went for the most conservative treatment as he thought the thousands of dollars my US dentist had recommended was BS to line his pocket. Seen dentists in the US and India since then and it must have been true since nobody has recommended the expensive procedures since.
Peace
Karl
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
It's worth checking out that dental site cause it's SO different than a US dentist. He tells you exactly what materials he uses and from where and the prices are all disclosed online in advance.
Here's a sample from crowns
"Non Precious All Metal Crown INR 2,000
US $41.30/-
Non Precious Metal Ceramic (IPS d.SIGN) INR 3,500
US $72.27/-
Non-Precious Metal Ceramic (IPS d.SIGN) INR 4,000
US $82.60/-
All Precious Metal Crown (BEGO Gold)* INR 18,000
US $371.70/-
Precious Metal Ceramic (BEGO Gold) * INR 18,000
US $371.70/-
Metal Free All Ceramic (Empress 2) INR 8,000
US $165.20/-
Metal Free All Ceramic (IPS e.MAX) INR 8,500
US $175.52/-
Metal Free All Ceramic (Procera)* INR 14,500
US $299.42/-
Full Dentures (Regular ) INR 7,000
US $144.55/-
Full Dentures (Hi-Strength) INR 10,000
US $206.50/-
Valplast Partials (starting from) INR 5,500
US $113.57/-"
Peace
Karl
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!