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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 12, 2008 - 12:54pm PT
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I'm curious here about the effect this issue--this accusation-- is having on the election. "Racism" is being bandied about right and left: pointing out the Ayer's association with Obama is racism; pointing out the association with the Rev. Wright is Racism; attacking the loose housing loan situation is racism; going after Acorn is racism etc.
Let's see if we can be coldly objective in evaluating the impact on the voters. In other words, how do you think this issue is effecting the voters across the spectrum? My opinion is it's a mistake. I don't believe the vast majority of voters are buying it. I believe it's counter productive vis a vis Obama. My feeling is Americans, on the whole, are fed up with " racism " being used as a weapon/accusation and resent it. Yes, racism exists; but to use it in the manner listed in the above paragraph won't sell and will backfire.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 12, 2008 - 01:15pm PT
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Woody:
If, after hearing McCain speak his followers begin demanding Obama be decapitated what should we focus on first?
In a public gathering citizens are advocating murder. Action is required. Action is required quite independently of whose murder is being proposed.
As a candidate for our leader McCain is surely aware of this. He had to know immediately he had to take action. Only after several incidents like this did he begin to do so.
Today's reports suggest he himself has ceased attacking his opponent's character but this duty has devolved to Palin. She reportedly says something like, if someone is guilty of doing bad things, I need to talk about it right?
Just as McCain refused to discuss character face to face with Obama during the second debate, he now absents himself from the scene and lets Palin carry the ball.
During the first few days of the financial crash very little was heard from Mr. Bush. He was absent from the scene.
Mr. McCain's campaign rhetoric has created an ugly dangerous problem for the entire country. All of us.
Now he too absents himself from the scene.
Just how incompetent or irresponsible does a person have to be to get less than 40% of the vote in the United States of America?
This is a very real question.
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AllezAllez510
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Oct 12, 2008 - 01:30pm PT
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dude...how many youtube videos are there where you have ig'nant rednecks talking about Obama "looks" like a terrorist or the name "sounds" like a terrorists name? Hell, what is it, like 30% of Americans still think Obama is a muslim? Like it should matter?
No matter what anyone says, there is a HUGE percentage of people who will not vote for Obama because he is BLACK (well, half black, but anyway...)
Race IS an issue...
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Oct 12, 2008 - 01:41pm PT
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What would you consider a "HUGE percentage"?
More than half?
How huge is "HUGE"?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 12, 2008 - 01:49pm PT
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Funny thing is, it's not so much that he's Black (or half black), it's that he has a funny sounding name and, combined with being a different color, that makes him susceptible to being branded a Muslim and a terrorist. We've already been trained to have a Pavlovian lynch response to "Muslim Terrorist" since 9-11.
Peace
Karl
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2008 - 02:27pm PT
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I will try again: how do you think this racism meme plays with the majority of the public? Do you think the majority are tired of it after all these years of having it used much of the time willy nilly. You obviously have opinions as to whether or not it's justified vis a vis yourself and this campaign; but is it helping or hurting Obama's campaign? There's no doubt there are racist nuts out there; they've always been out there. Sen Barney Frank accused McCain/Palin of racism for attacking the housing issue. Do you think that plays well with the public? How about the other issues I mentioned above? Has this meme finally lost it's impact with most people? Are most people getting to the point they resent it?
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AllezAllez510
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Oct 12, 2008 - 02:37pm PT
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"HUGE"? I've seen estimates as high as 30%. These are probably the same 30% that still give Bush as favorable rating as a president. Even at 5 or 10% these under-informed (or mal-informed?) could cost Obama the election.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Oct 12, 2008 - 02:46pm PT
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I call bullshit on your 30% number.
5 or 10% is "HUGE"?
We've lost the language.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 12, 2008 - 03:09pm PT
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I agree, McCain, from the first off, should have denounced the headcases calling for Obama's death.
But what do you expect from a guy who lets Bush/Rove drag his family name through the mud and then sux Bush's cock.
Obama ain't great by any means but he is a damn sight better than McCain.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 12, 2008 - 03:18pm PT
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The New York Times article, which in part is based on research by the Pew Research Centres and MIT, suggests that Obama's skin colour is likely to play a role, but that it is and will be very difficult to measure the effect.
Presumably the main effort of the Obama campaign over the next few weeks will be to ensure that as many legitimate voters are registered as possible, that they have the opportunity to vote, and that they are vigilant towards hanky panky of all types with registration and voting.
The US was humiliated before the world after the 2000 election. No need for that to happen again - a clean, definite result is what's needed. If necessary, Jimmy Carter should be appointed to oversee the process, as he's done in so many other countries with voting problems.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 12, 2008 - 03:23pm PT
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"5 or 10% is "HUGE"?
We've lost the language. '
When elections are won by one or two percent, then these numbers could be considered huge.
As for how the race card has been played. I think at times it has been over played and people are tired of it, but then again it is happening, so it still needs to be examined, just more judiciously. As for it hurting Obama or McCain. I think it hurts McCain more then Obama because he is overplaying it. That works fine for his base, but it hurts him with the more middle of the road conservatives who can vote either way.
These are the votes he needs and he wont get them if he keeps pandering to his base. The rule is that you pander to your base to get your parties nomination, then you move toward center to get elected. The problem for McCain is that he didn't fire up his base enough to keep them active while he tries to reach the middle. Every time he tries to reach the middle, his base goes to sleep and stops working for him and so then he panders to them even more. He was a poor choice for his party.
I think this will backfire on him but I am prepared for some weird stuff to happen because I think the powers in control of America prefer McCain to Obama.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 12, 2008 - 03:34pm PT
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Anders, humiliated? That whole fiasco was more than humiliation.
It was a sham.
Gore won the popular vote and should have won the (outdated, archaic) electoral college vote.
There are those Bush supporters, or just plain outright anti-Gore people, who claim that people like me are just crying in their beer.
But it was truly an election stolen. That is not sour grapes, that is the fact and history will prove it.
Gore may be a bore, but he is miles ahead of that dickhead in the White House at the moment.
So to those people who try to tell me to get over it, go f*ck yourselves. That rigged election has immense implications for all of our lives.
Am I bitter? You are damned right I am. What is the United States, a third-world country where the vote doesn’t count? If Bush had won it fair and square, then okay. But that wasn’t the case.
Maybe it was a similar situation for the 1960 election, some may counter. If so, let’s make sure it does not happen again. And we, as a people, should not have in 2000.
Sheeple.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Oct 12, 2008 - 04:19pm PT
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Woody,
since yo uare not LEB, and seem serious about this and willing to listen, I'll say what I've seen at Chemo.
LOTS of latent racism there.
I think the racism issue as you described it will not play with people who are never going to vote for a black person for anything, ever, and there are a LOT of those from what I hear and see.
As for people who try to be fair, I don't think fringe cries of racism will affect them either. If they have already decided on Obama, they will overlook this stuff you are talking about.
As for the undecided, who can say? At this point I don't think there really are that many undecided, but again, if they are going to listen to the fringe instead of Obama himself, then maybe htey will be swayed.
However, I think more likely to sway people who are undecided is the unending stream of idiocy that runs out of Palin's mouth, and the desperate grabbing at straws, any straw, a random straw, and it changes from day to day BTW, that McCain seems to favor.
McCain seems to have lost it, and the more he says and does, the more people are going to see just how wrong it would be for him to be president.
Anyway, it's still true that latent racism may win this for McCain, but it will be a SAD day for America if that happens, and I think many people are too scared to vote based on the race issue in the current situation. OF course, some will though.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 12, 2008 - 04:27pm PT
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"I will try again: how do you think this racism meme plays with the majority of the public?'
I'm willing to bet nobody really knows, but, as evidenced by the past two elections, things have been so close that Obama must go the extra mile to be elected despite his race
peace
karl
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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Oct 12, 2008 - 05:05pm PT
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Race like every other defining characteristic will play a role in the election, whether for or against either candidate. that doesnt make anyone racist. the OP question is whether or not people are fed up with frivolous accusations of racism. I think that people are largely fed up with it, then again a lot of people are ok with feeling guilt for things that are not their fault. Those who are not have a very hard time making their point because political correctness has made honest discussion of race issues very difficult- and that is the one thing that could bring everyone closer together. I dont think that there will be a back-firing in terms of election though...I think that regardless how sick people are of the racism card being played, it has become accepted as somewhat normal. Let me clarify, lest anyone think me naive, that real racism DOES in fact exist still in this country. I just feel that the parameters of that term have been set by people who are more inclined to twist the moral outrage of the good and caring people of this nation for their own gain than to actually solve the problems and make life better for EVERYONE.
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