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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 10, 2008 - 09:40pm PT
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Acorn, Barney Frank, etc.
Do I have it wrong?
Juan
McCain-Palin 08
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Oct 10, 2008 - 09:44pm PT
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Democrats took out Juan's laptop? Those weasels!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 10, 2008 - 09:45pm PT
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(Not your party) is more to blame for (fill in recent current event) do I have it wrong?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 10, 2008 - 09:45pm PT
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hey Juan, were your parents Dems?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 10, 2008 - 09:46pm PT
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"hey Juan, were your parents Trolls?"
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nature
climber
Santa Fe, NM
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Oct 10, 2008 - 10:45pm PT
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It's really too bad his parents never came out in the light of day.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 10, 2008 - 11:22pm PT
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I thought Beth Rodden was to blame for Meltdown, that is if "blame" is the appropriate verb for someone who establishes a new 5.14 climb.
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jamesellis
climber
Bremerton, Washington
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Oct 10, 2008 - 11:27pm PT
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God I just love the empty claims with no supporting evidence to back them up. I hope someday more people are as politically knowledgeable as you.
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Thom
Trad climber
South Orange County, CA
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Oct 11, 2008 - 12:05am PT
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Community Reinvestment Act, passed under Carter, required banks to make what were basically "subprime" loans. Democrats insisted discrimination existed in the form of "red-lining".
Under Clinton, the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act required Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to get on board with the CRA. Their ultimate goal was 50% (!) of their business to be in this area.
Senate Finance Committee is controlled by the democrats.
House Committee on Financial Services is also controlled by the democrats. Here's what they say about themselves: "The committee oversees all components of the nation's housing and financial services sectors including banking, insurance, real estate, public assisted housing, and securities." Congressman Barney Frank (Dem and Chairman) swore up and down for months that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were not in trouble and that problems were over blown.
If there were any issues within the banking, housing, or securities industries that the democrats took issue with they most certainly could have taken action since they control the finance committees in both the House and Senate — but they didn't.
T.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Oct 11, 2008 - 12:10am PT
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Juan are you snorting "Cosmic" Glue? and what are your credentials in economics? You couldn't even give me a straight answer on a telescope 2 years ago and now you're filling the pages of ST with Repugnant crap. What's the story dude? Half my degree is in econ and accounting and this crap has be coming down the Pike for some time, Open up and say AWE.....
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 11, 2008 - 12:18am PT
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Mark- Howzit? Bout time for winter aid climbing dude.
Econ? What say you ? Edify us pleez.(but not on a Juan thread).
hope it's good.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Oct 11, 2008 - 12:24am PT
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Phuck the Econ, all the classes I took were from Proff's that were spewing random Econ thought's from smith etc.,,, Lets do a winter wall grade V bro.... or a Late Fall wall and enjoy 60' + degree temps up there. Us ol' folks should reconsider grade V's as the 40+ generations grade VI and just be happy to be out there.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 11, 2008 - 12:26am PT
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blame?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 11, 2008 - 12:34am PT
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well i hear 50 is the new 30ish. so stands to reason that Grade V is the new Grade VIish...or somethin.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 11, 2008 - 03:52am PT
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Let's be real clear here. Reagan (and Bush I) expicitly and enthusiastically embraced financial socialism in the housing market to boost a lagging economy. Only under their administrations, the mortgage giveaway was exclusively aimed at the middle class. In 1992, the Democrats were just finally saying so long as you're giving away government largess, how about at least spread it marginally wider. Their intentions were good, and in fact the Clinton Administration put breaks on the whole affair in its first term, though loosened up in their second while under siege.
But the party really only hit high-gear after Senator Phil Gramm killed Glass-Steagal's Depression-era firewalls. And once the hyennas in W's administration got in office, they further greased the tracks of the runaway train by crippling much of the remaining oversight and enforcement. They deliberately did nothing to stop it because they realized the housing market 'bubble' was the only thing that could prop up their [url="http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm" target="new"]long-planned[/url] war in Iraq.
[ Juan, think of the chart above as a seismograph - now just who's earthquake was this...? ]
Note in particular, the rise of Asset Backed Securities (ABS) issues coincides with the war; just in time to prop up the economy as it started to correct itself in the face of that crisis. Oh, and it wasn't just mortgages - those ABS issues also comprised the Student Loan Crisis which saw a parallel frenzy of fraud as the banking community figured they could roll those loans into the ABS mix along with autos and credit card debt. Essentially, all forms of our common debt were rolled into the MBS/ABS slice-and-dicer to feed a very large and all encompassing Ponzi scheme built on 'vanishing' risk.
In fact, if your read the details of the 'technical analysis' currently all the rage in the financial sector today, it all revolves around the fact that all our debt was sliced-and-diced so finely and repeatedly that it is now largely impossible by almost any means for the ABS holders to trace those instruments back to individual houses, automobiles, students, and cardholders - the whole debt market effectively acted as a massive money laundering operation the scale and scope of which the Mafia could only have wet dreams about.
A good friend, who in the late 80s got his Ph.D. in Accounting (Auditing / Regulatory Oversight), summed it all up succinctly:
"Corporations, absent appropriate regulatory oversight, are indistinguishable from organized crime."
He said it was pretty obvious from the go-go, junk-bond 80's where this was all headed. He noted that that same crowd mounted sustained and continuous attacks against government oversight from the 90's on once the 'easy money' and lootable piles of unprotected cash of the 80's dried up and they were all faced with the prospect of actually having to go back to [honest] work.
So, while there is plenty of blame to go around, make no mistake about it - this was all a socialist party thrown by Republicans and then crashed at the eleventh hour by financial felons in the banking industry and the hooligans on Wall Street...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 11, 2008 - 04:54am PT
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Joe, good analysis. ^^^^^
I really do not like to get too personal on threads, but Jeff has always appeared to me as an idiot. No offence intended Juan, just how I feel.
Blame can be apportioned to several 'parties' and people, but it is partially the system, though I do believe in a free market, but a free market with a conscious and ethics.
When you get greedy felons involved in the mix, masquerading as politicians and corporate leaders, then the system's cracks begin to appear.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 11, 2008 - 08:19am PT
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Faced with the real data( many thanks Joe) we have today, any reasonable guess as to
what the polls should be would be around 90/10 or perhaps 80/20. Why do we have
something like 60/40? Forty percent of the people want to see the US fail while leaving
them time enough to exit with their booty and go live in Switzerland? I don't think so.
Jeff has his issues. Where I might be able to help, I will. But his posts do highlight the
absurdity posed by the 60/40 split. For that we should be appropriately grateful.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Oct 11, 2008 - 10:01am PT
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As Several hav esaid, efore the bush hyenas guted the firewalls and unleashed the dogds of greed, thigns wer OK.
IN fact, it's a FACT taht before the idiotic interest only deal were pushed, but lower income mortgages had the highest repament rate of any loan class.
YOU can look that up too.
Someone could do us all a favor by destroying Juan's internet connection. He's been more than a little tiresome for quite a while now.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 11, 2008 - 03:43pm PT
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Somebody had it figured out!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 11, 2008 - 03:51pm PT
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"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."
Q: Guess who said this?
I no more trust business than government - both need informed, vigilant regulation and oversight. To prevent excesses and evils of all types.
A: Adam Smith, in The Wealth of Nations (1776).
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