Science Debate 2008 (OT/Political)

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Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 5, 2008 - 03:50pm PT
many months ago I joined in signing a petition to the candidates to engage in a specific debate centered on Science... the so called Science Debate 2008.

No party or candidates choose to engage.

However, it seems that at least one candidate has responded to the central questions of the debate.

You can read the response here:
http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php?id=40

This is important to me, at least.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 5, 2008 - 04:05pm PT
Thanks, Ed, for an informative post. You're someone whose on-topic and off-topic posts are always worth reading.

I have to be a bit territorial on the name of the debate, though. Most of the questions posed deal with the allocation of scarce resources, and are therefore matters of economic, not scientific, debate.

John
drgonzo

Trad climber
east bay, CA
Sep 5, 2008 - 04:08pm PT
Come on, Ed.

They're trying to get elected. They need the unwashed masses of troglodytes in the fly-over states who only care about pleasing Jesus (their lord and personal savior) hence the farce a few weeks ago in that southern CA megachurch.

What voting block will they attract with a science debate?

"...While scientific literacy has doubled over the past two decades, only 20 to 25 percent of Americans are "scientifically savvy and alert," he said in an interview. Most of the rest "don't have a clue." At a time when science permeates debates on everything from global warming to stem cell research, he said, people's inability to understand basic scientific concepts undermines their ability to take part in the democratic process...

..American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century..."


article


dirtbag

climber
Sep 5, 2008 - 04:08pm PT
I guess there isn't much point in sending the survey to Sarah Palin.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Arid-zona
Sep 5, 2008 - 04:19pm PT
I wish to god that universities would take over the responsibilities of presidential debates. The media outlets just f*#k them up over and over and over again.
jstan

climber
Sep 5, 2008 - 04:24pm PT
Barack's answers go into a level of detail that shows some serious thinking has gone into the various sub-questions and their interactions. The US's course over the last twenty or more years is playing into our major weakness. Labor costs in the US have seriously reduced the income we get from selling actual goods and our technology sales helped greatly to reduce our balance of payment deficit. A deficit we are now belatedly realizing is not good. Not good at all. To the degree we do not regain our strength in technology we will be committing ourselves to lower and lower personal wages for the foreseeable future.

Perhaps one of the most blind government decisions of all has been that of tax policies preventing industry from supporting facilities like Bell Telephone Labs., a similar facility at IBM, and many others, which created nearly all of the technologies upon which our present life is based.

If ever there was a false economy, this is it.
Brunosafari

Boulder climber
Redmond, OR
Sep 5, 2008 - 04:37pm PT

Important to me too, Ed and interesting. Thanks!

Bruce
Tan Slacks

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 5, 2008 - 04:44pm PT
Our country is under assualt and don't be fooled, this is an organized, pre-meditated (sp) plan. Even though my family lives in an oasis of wonderful climbing on our secluded ranch, we are surrounded by numb nuts.

My wife has been a Biology teacher at the local high school for the last 18 years and one of our biggest worries is being physically assualted by our local Christian community. On several occasions we have had to call the sheriff out because of promised attacks on our home and person. Why?????

Because my wife teaches evolution! How can so many people beleive that science can be taught without its foundation floors me. McCain can't answer the questions, he would upset his base and he has ALREADY PROVEN he won't do that.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Sep 5, 2008 - 04:46pm PT
I (dis)liked the somewhat loaded question on Education that asked what the Feds should do.

WTF?, Get rid of the Dept of Education maybe. I mean, they're obviosly not helping. The education problem is multi-faceted but the major factor is parental influence. Holding their kids accountable for underachieving is the parents' job.

It has very little to do with money, except in terms of paying teachers a bit more to encourage more great minds to go into taeching.

Learning can be fun and exciting with the right teachers. I took 2 Business Law classes in college and one was absoluetly boring. I would literally fall asleep. The other was a joy to attend everytime I went. The difference...the teacher.

Anyway, the Fed always ruins sh#t under it's 'guidance'. The only exception here is the military.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Sep 5, 2008 - 04:51pm PT
Ed

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

I've refrained from joining any of the political shouting matches that have filled ST lately, but this initiative deserves comment and support. Apolitical support.

Since moving to your country seven years ago, I've become more and more convinced that the biggest enemy to your freedom is ignorance within your borders, not attack from the outside. Which is not to say there aren't dangers out there, but that they pale in comparison to the dangers at home. Reading Tan Slacks' post above is truly frightening.

D
elcap-pics

climber
Crestline CA
Sep 5, 2008 - 05:45pm PT
I'm with you Ed.... the ignorance of the majority of the right wing in the areas of technology and science is truly frightening, not to mention that they want to destroy rational thinking in analyzing many of our most serious problems. Strangely enough we live in a time of great progress and great ignorance too...
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 5, 2008 - 05:52pm PT
Wow - amazing stuff. A real discussion of real issues, such as the interaction of science with policy. Thanks, Ed!
cintune

climber
the Moon and Antarctica
Sep 5, 2008 - 06:21pm PT
That figure of 1 in 5 not understanding the solar system seems a tad unbelievable.

A big part of the problem, though, is the rampant glorification of anti-intellectualism that underliies and reenforces reactionary behavior.
Ouch!

climber
Sep 5, 2008 - 06:32pm PT
Thanks Ed. That was very interesting and enlightening. Serious stuff.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Sep 5, 2008 - 06:37pm PT
Very good stuff, Ed.
It'll be interesting how McCain answers the questions.
Ouch!

climber
Sep 5, 2008 - 07:01pm PT
Well, I'll admit I ain't very smart but even I can see that if you can think, you are a pinko elitist.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Sep 5, 2008 - 07:25pm PT
Assuming that Obama's response is truly from him and not some underling, then the guy impresses me just a bit more. But I suspect that perhaps he had a bit of help with his responses. Nothing wrong with that and there is nothing wrong with delegating tasks that are better left to a colleague who knows more about a certain subject.

I too would like to see what McCain's responses are.

Learning can be fun and exciting with the right teachers. I took 2 Business Law classes in college and one was absoluetly boring. I would literally fall asleep. The other was a joy to attend everytime I went. The difference...the teacher.


Yeah, I can identify with that (I'd think that many of us can). At Columbia College (Yosemite Community College District) back in 1975 (or was it 1976) I was taking two Natural Resources courses. One was with Ross Carkeet, an excellent professor - you didn't want to miss his classes, the other was with an unnamed professor, and for the first time in my life I fell asleep (literally) in a class. He knew his stuff but he would have been better off in research than teaching.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Sep 5, 2008 - 07:52pm PT
Patrick, I think it is very safe to assume that Obama answered the questions himself without any help. The questions were not that difficult for a Harvard Law graduate and Consitutional Law Professor to handle. Also, given that he alone writes all his speeches, including the convention speech. You can google
"obama speeches write his own?" for verification.
Jeremy Handren

climber
NV
Sep 5, 2008 - 08:12pm PT
Nice idea Ed....however you only have to look at the opening article of another thread

"intelligent commentary on Palin choice (OT and long)"

to see a rationale for why such a debate would be a complete irrelevance.
Al Gore pretty much covered the same ground in his book, " The assault on Reason". Its a sorry state of affairs.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Sep 5, 2008 - 08:33pm PT
Yeah right, Norton. The guy does everything himself. Where's he find the time? I don't buy it, and I see nothing wrong with him having help. But some of you (and I am not necessarily pointing at you Norton) think this guy is Superman.

Compared to Bush he is Superman, and McCain as well.

Google?

Google bullshit and see what you come up with. I think I will start a Wikipedia entry on myself. Do you know I was the first to free solo El Cap, and that I single handedly saved an Amazon tribe from...


I hope you get the picture.
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