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Sioux Juan
Big Wall climber
Costa mesa
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 7, 2008 - 02:09pm PT
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I know it would take me longer than any assent record
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Sioux Juan
Big Wall climber
Costa mesa
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2008 - 02:20pm PT
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locker rap not jump ?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Somebody's rap rig wasn't done right once, and they speed right down the 3000 foot rope in record time. It was rapping but it wasn't a happy ending.
Speed rapping isn't the kind of record folks should be going for. Plenty of ways to get killed. Still, I admit, it would be interesting to know how long it takes a really competent person who knows the terrain to get from the top to bottom. (cause as a photographer, sometimes that's what it take to get shots)
peace
karl
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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I heard a caver had the fast record rapping a solid 3000 feet rope on El Cap when his rack bar failed .
Werner, what is the detail on this?
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al_piner
climber
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It depends on how much bolting you do on the way down .
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Majid S,
> I heard a caver had the fast record rapping a solid 3000 feet rope on El Cap when his rack bar failed .
Robert Moore, 1992 (Accidents in North American Mountaineering 1993) on a [edit:] 820 meter (150 pound) single rope
on the Dawn Wall. Insufficient friction in rappel device, got out of control and hit the wall hard.
[edit to add:]
Online reference with very few details:
http://www.extremerappels.com/XTR%20Pages/EC1996.htm
"Certainly the small black plaque secured to the underside of the ledge at the top qualifies in this regard. The plaque was placed there as a memorial to Robert Moore, a rappeller that died in an uncontrolled rappel in 1992 (Nylon Highway No. 36). The plaque is one of the first things you see once you are over the edge and serves as a sobering reminder that our sport is not without peril. Some of the team had the opportunity to speak with rock climbers that were actually on the wall during the accident, and they provided an eye-witness account of the incident. YOSAR personnel also related some of the details of the subsequent body recovery and attempts to find the cause of the disaster, which will probably never be fully known."
The ANAM report is more detailed, but still could only speculate about why he got out of control, because he was not close enough to directly observe when things went wrong.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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If Mr Moore was on a 2000' rope off the Dawn Wall then I can see a problem right away.
I tried to recreate the conditions involved with Moore's death to try and better understand what happened to him. My own opinion is that inexperience coupled with a rack 'configuration problem' put Moore in a situation where he was unable to brake. He most likely perished when he struck the wall somewhere around 1000'.
I was unable to maintain an 'out of control' rappel without physically holding the rack open. I would imagine that my rap would be at least one of the fastest if not the fastest successful rappels off El Cap. I did not time it but I would guess it was under 3 minutes. I stopped a couple of times. caveman
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Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
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What kind of a rig were you using Caveman?
Prod.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Prod, I was rappelling with a Thor rack (extra length) with 5 brake bars. I rapped most of the route with 4 bars. I adhere to the cavers 4 bar rule (never use less than 4 bars). Oh, I had no safety as I use none.
edit to add: a cavers rack is like an elongated biner with an eye at one end. It accepts multiple brake bars configured opposite each other with the braking action created when the bars are slid close to each other and speed achieved when they are spread out.
Karl, speed rapping is no more dangerous than speed climbing.
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Jason Wheeler
climber
Pleasant Hill CA
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Hi Clint,
I was doing some research on my uncle Robert Moore who died on El Capitan in 1992 and came across this thread from 2008 http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=628720&tn=0
I'm wondering if there are any pictures of the plaque you spoke of dedicated to my uncle? None of his family are aware of the plaque... Does anyone know who decided to have it put there?
Any insights you could give would be much appreciated. We are trying to track down a picture of the plaque for my uncles widow and children.
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Jason Wheeler
climber
Pleasant Hill CA
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Thank you for the reply Cragman... do you have any knowledge of the plaque referenced in this thread? Thank you for your reply.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Just don't Gugglimucci the effort...
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WBraun
climber
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I was on the recovery of the Jason Wheeler rappel accident.
How does one actually witness the accident happening if you're climbing on the free-blast?
On the Free Blast you would be completely out of sight from the Dawn wall rappel.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jason,
I was quoting from the extremerappels.com web page in 2008 which described the plaque. (It does not seem to exist anymore, and www.archive.org didn't save the particular page I quoted from).
I haven't looked for the plaque myself.
A good way to follow up would be to send an email to the user "Caveman", as he investigated the accident. He may know about the plaque also.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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"Certainly the small black plaque secured to the underside of the ledge at the top qualifies in this regard. The plaque was placed there as a memorial to Robert Moore, a rappeller that died in an uncontrolled rappel in 1992 (Nylon Highway No. 36). The plaque is one of the first things you see once you are over the edge and serves as a sobering reminder that our sport is not without peril."
My guess after reading the above is that the plaque is attached to the rock just below the top of the rappel point the cavers use. (top of the Dawn Wall)
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Jason Wheeler
climber
Pleasant Hill CA
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WOW pretty crazy that a few of you were there for this incident. This is great info. I wonder if there is an organization or place that would know more about this plaque. Who put it there?
It seems odd to me that a plaque was put there for my uncle when there have been many that have fallen from El Cap...
Does anyone have any ideas of how I might be able to further investigate?
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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I know the caver that was at the top and evidently assisting Mr. Moore as he got on rope.
I'm speculating that the folks involved in the rappel would be the plaque placers or would at least know who did it. They perhaps were recognizing Mr. Moore as SRT(single rope technique) fatality at that spot whereas other deaths did not happen at that place (that they knew of). Basically they were just recognizing the rappelling death.
I can ask the people I know about it to see if I can find out more.
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Jason Wheeler
climber
Pleasant Hill CA
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Caveman... your looking into this for us means a lot to Rob's family. Anything you can find or leads you can assist with would be very much appreciated.
Ultimately it would be great to get a snapshot or picture of the plaque.
Since we discovered it's existence Robs Sister and Widow have a strong desire to confirm that this memorial is there especially since there is no formal memorial spot due the nature of his passing...
Thank you sir for your help.
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Crazy Bat
Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
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It may comfort the family to know that his accident was the reason cavers have the 4 bar rule. My brother does some research into rappelling accidents and I know the guy who was at the top with him just before he fell. He was using the standard length rack and there was so much friction that he went to three bars. He asked my friend to hand him something and when my friend turned back around he was gone. So the loss of control happened really fast.
I've forgotten the theory as to why three bars can lead to no bars, but his death has probably saved countless lives.
If you want to have some contact information PM me.
Myrna
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