The Hand, Pinnacles National Monument

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martygarrison

Trad climber
Modesto
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 2, 2008 - 02:42pm PT
All the thread on death run outs (Hd) lately had me thinking about this route. First has it been retro bolted? K-man or Clint would know. We used to do this route as teenagers everytime we went to the Pinnacles. I even made a practice of taking every potential girlfriend I was trying to woo up the thing. For those who don't know the route, it really is an adventure. Nice hike, a short pitch that traverses to great exposure and a belay on a giant knob, then what was a complete death lead on 5.7 vertical Pinnacles knob climbing for about 80? feet. In the day only two old rusty quarter inch bolts (salathe put them in?) protected this pitch. Always sporty and always a great feeling when you finished it. One of the coolest 5.6 or 5.7's I have ever done. Anyone else do this in the day and what is up with it now?
Orion

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Apr 2, 2008 - 02:45pm PT
I did it back in the day, that being a few years ago. It's a great way to finish the day at pinnacles, beers on top of a rock with a great view of the sunset.

I remember it being a pretty interesting lead becuase there were patches of brown where people had recently pulled out knobs. You could not help to think that it might be the time for the knob you where on.
martygarrison

Trad climber
Modesto
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 2, 2008 - 02:50pm PT
I should be more specific......back in the day for me was 1973. I sure hope folks still are not leading on those manky old bolts.....
Mtnmun

Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
Apr 2, 2008 - 02:52pm PT
I could be wrong, but I believe Stevie D put a new route up The Hand last year. Any beta on this out there?
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Apr 2, 2008 - 02:58pm PT
This route?



My first attempt to lead a multi-pitch route, and my first bail off a multi pitch route. Pretty sure that was in '88.

I wasn't so much scared of the manky bolts, as I was scared at the lack of manky bolts.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 2, 2008 - 03:08pm PT
The Hand was retro-bolted many years ago, then some folks from Friends of Pinnacles (myself included) replaced the old bolts.

Apparently, Salathe originally lead the thing on pins. To the few climbers of the day, this was an astonishing accomplishment.

I talked to Peter Hann about this, apparently nobody could figure out where he placed *any* pins for pro on that route. I believe he had just two, at the belay.

This is a sad story for me, one for my bonehead collection. I was helping Bruce rebolt the belay by hanging out below the Big Knob that was the belay platform, watching him remove, then hammer in new belay bolts. With not much else to do, I gazed around. Then my eye fell on something out of place. It was a PIN! One of Salathe's original belay pins.

Stupidly, I hammered it out. Then to my surprise, I discovered another, buried even deeper beneath the knob. Stupidly, I hammered this one out too.

Bruce, being the gracious man that he is, talked me into giving him BOTH pins. You see, we'd donate them to the Access Fund, where they could auction them off for Thousand$, and then they'd be able to buy up Mickey's Beach boulder or some such.

Of course, they disappeared as soon as he sent them off to the AF.

On Love Line, SteviDx and I put that up a couple of years ago. Lou Renner helped Stevi with the first 5 bolts, I came in a year later and helped him finish. Pretty cool route, IMNSHO.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Apr 2, 2008 - 03:08pm PT
Paul's comment is one of the best and funniest quotes I've ever seen about Pinns:

"I wasn't so much scared of the manky bolts, as I was scared at the lack of manky bolts."

Classic.

My leads of this route, and of another Pinnacles 5.6 on The Outcast, scared me more than any A4 pitch I've ever led.

Clint will know if the bolts were replaced, I don't know as I sit here at work, but I'd bet they have been. Kelly Rich, Steve Dalleske and Lou Renner did put up a sensational line to the left of Salathe, also on the Hand. Love Line, two pitches. It's three out of three stars.



Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Apr 2, 2008 - 03:08pm PT
such a good route!

did the first pitch lead, then followed second pitch in like 94? or so

no bolt info in the current guide book is there?

kev

climber
CA
Apr 2, 2008 - 03:09pm PT
Climbed Salathe on the hand a few years back. It hadn't been retro bolted and was super steep (and fun) for 5.6 but really runout.

Also climbed The Back of the Hand a few years ago and it had not been retro bolted and was runout on mediocre rock (pinnacles mediocre) but again super fun.

I REALLY doubt that anyone has retro bolted those since I was last on them or that the community would allow it (I'm thinking some chopping would be in order)

As far as rebolting goes I seem to recall that the bolts were old 1/4 inchers but I'm really not sure so don't count on the accuracy of that.

I'm pretty sure there is a list floating around with what has and needs to be replaced in the pinns floating around. Check with Brad Young. Also might be info on the FOP website. You should prolly also post this on Masters of Mud - people over there would know for sure.

Hope that helps

kev
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Apr 2, 2008 - 03:22pm PT
Kev, Kelly meant it had been retrobolted decades ago (putting words in your mouth here, Kelly, I hope that's OK). Likely in the 50s or 60s.

Robert, no, the new book doesn't have bolting information (ie types of bolts). Too much of a moving target with the huge amount of rebolting going on. Any such information would have become obsolete in weeks or months. The FA appendix does cover what routes have been rebolted and when the rebolting was done.
martygarrison

Trad climber
Modesto
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 2, 2008 - 03:46pm PT
Kelly,

Had you still been my student I would have chastised you for banging out the original Salathe pins (even though the student surpassed the teacher in ability!). One question however, as I am still a little confused, (Brad tried to clear it up), when you lead the second pitch of the Hand do you still have only two manky old quarter inchers?
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Apr 2, 2008 - 03:54pm PT
I didn't know that Marty and Kelly knew each other. Student? Teacher? Can we pry a little for some stories?
martygarrison

Trad climber
Modesto
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 2, 2008 - 04:01pm PT
I will let K-man respond to this one! We know each other well and I have followed and been proud of his climbing acomplishments for years. He might want to tell you how I let my dog destroy his back garden at one point.....
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Apr 2, 2008 - 04:07pm PT
Noting like passing the buck. I am blaming Sam Davidson for the loss of the Salathe pins. When he was with the Access Fund(AF) he told me all these stories of getting thousands of dollars for one of Harding's original Nose headwall bolts.

So, when Kelly, David Rubine, Brooks White and I replaced all the bolts on the Wilts, Salathe and Burnette routes on the Hand in fall of 1997, I carefully labeled each bolt to idetify it's location. I sent the bolts, pins(sigh) and a topo for identification to the AF.

And you know what? When I asked the AF for a $500 grant a few years later they turned me down!

Bruce

ps - last year I asked the AF if they had any records of where any of that stuff went, but apparently they don't keep records of the donations they have received or what they sold the donations for. So, alas, it appears that a rich piece of Pinnacles history has vanished.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 2, 2008 - 04:13pm PT
Marty,
Many things I have tried to forget. Then there are many things that I've just plain forgotten. Your dog, however...

One thing is clear in my mind. My first pair of *stinky* climbing shoes. Used EBs with holes in the toes & stitched on leather uppers. Bought for, what, $20 from a true Yosemite hardman.

Student surpass the teacher?? Not true in this case, buddy. Give me a few years, though.

PS. And yes, I hang my head each time I think about removing those pins...And you should have seen the look on Hann's face when I told him.

PPS: Those pictures, that ain't the Salathe route. I think it's the Thumb.
martygarrison

Trad climber
Modesto
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 2, 2008 - 04:45pm PT
A long time ago, I used to teach climbing at the state university system. I was all of 22 or something. Kelly Rich was in my first class. It was obvious the guy had ability from the get go. I believe his first trips to the Valley, Leap, Pinnacles and Jtree were in this class. We have been friends ever sense. I rented a room from him in Santa Cruz in the late seventies early eighties (he always had more money than me) and as he was traveling around South America he trusted me with his house. I was at the university and had a dog name Kye. Anyway Kelly was gone for about six or nine months in which time I never cut the grass. It was around four foot high when he returned and Kye had cut trails through the whole back garden. It is one of the only times I have seen him truly pissed. Over the years we have kept in touch and I can really say he is a great person.
kev

climber
CA
Apr 2, 2008 - 04:47pm PT
Brad,

Ahh now I get it. It's a shame so few people do those neat old routes much. There are some wonderful old classics floating around.

kev
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 2, 2008 - 05:47pm PT
Marty, that's so funny. I remember I had to rent a special lawn mower to hack the four-foot high weeds. That mower, it took down my the small tree I had growing in the front yard. Remember Tim, he just laughed (but he was happy when his shoes were found in the back yard under all those weeds!).
salad

climber
San Diego
Apr 2, 2008 - 06:05pm PT
it was one my first rock climbs. well, first 20 or 30... i led the first pitch. i remember there being an easy, but awkward and commiting move on the traversing section...cant remember if it was before or after the bolt.

that belay block was so cool!

my partner got off route on the second pitch and ended up going up that 5.7 variation that goes kind of straight up. fun and steep.

never made it back to the original finish.

i think i did loveline once too, but not sure, might have just looked at it.

always wanted to try the 50 meter must as well...
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 2, 2008 - 06:42pm PT
Marty,

Kelly answered the retrobolting and bolt replacement questions perfectly. If it wasn't clear, the (single) bolt on the "Burnette Bolt Variation" was replaced with 3/8" in 1997 on the Friends of Pinnacles trip described above.

Paul, the bolts on "Back of Hand" were replaced with 3/8" in around 1995 by Dennis Erik Strom.
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