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Slabby D
Trad climber
B'ham WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 7, 2004 - 07:23pm PT
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I'm gonna get me a 6mm tag line. Are there any options out there other than 6mm accesory cord? I want something that will stand up to hauling light loads or can even be doubled up for rappells in the hills.
More like a 6mm static rope.
I once saw some Euro brand rope called an Alpine Escape (??) in a shop but can't track the thing down now.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Slabby
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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I was never sold on the 6mil tag line idea...
Allways seemed like a tangled mess waiting to happen. Plus it is not as multi-functional as a slightly bigger line.
I use an 8mil static tag line, and it works for hauling, and rappeling just as well. It doesn't get too tangled, and it doesn't weigh a ton either.
You could also use an old retired 8 mill Ice climbing rope since you probly won't be hauling much weight up...
6mil just seems like a pain to deal with...maybe not though...
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dougs510
Trad climber
Nashville, TN.
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What about jugging? What's the min. diameter trustworthy? I'd say 8 or 9???
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Thom
Trad climber
South Orange County, CA
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Probably 8mm unless you're using prusiks (small ones at that, like 4mm or something if you're ascending 7mm or less). If I remember correctly, most ascenders won't grab on anything less than 8mm with any reliability.
Of course, BW's 5.5mm Spectra Cord is as strong as standard 8mm cord (3100 lbs). But what would ever grap it for ascending? 3mm prusiks? Yikes!
Ascending 200' ft. of free-hangin' 5.5mm Spectra Cord using 3mm prusiks... Gives me the willies just thinkin' about it. Oh, yeah: don't forget to tie-in short!
Thom
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Thom
Trad climber
South Orange County, CA
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Almost forgot:
T Moses:
Your BW 7mm static zip line is actually slightly weaker than standard BW accessory cord (10.6kn vs 11kn) and is slightly more expensive ($74.00 vs $68.00 for 60m).
Beware the marketing mavins.
Also, it's safe working load is only 160 lbs; at 158 lbs. myself, I don't think I'd be rappin' off it since I'm definitely over 160 with gear. Stopping abruptly on rappel (accidently or otherwise) would certainly shock load the [static] cord well beyond its' safe working load...just a wee bit scary for my tastes. I'll stick to 8mm IF I HAVE TO, otherwise standard climbing rope diameters for me thanks.
Thom
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T Moses
Trad climber
Paso Robles
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I don't use the 7mm Zip line for a stand alone rope. I use it in conjunction with a full size rope(9.8 or bigger). What ever I have with me at the time. I tie the 7mm to the fat rope with double fishermans. Sorry I didn't make this clear originally.
The working load is not such an issue when you have two ropes together (for raps).
I bought it as a light tag line, to haul small day packs or send up extra gear on an aid outing along with rigging 200' raps
I didn't think that you hauled with your "tag line". I though that was a "haul line".
I definitly don't plan on jugging on anything under 9mm. I like nice fat ropes for that.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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First of all, boyz, we is talkin' about Ziplines and not tag lines.
Tagging is usually considered to be a rather sophisticated solo strategy, though I'll confess the nomenclature isn't definite in this regard.
At least until now. I just defined it. Tagging is for soloist, zipping is between partners. [At least I think so - if anyone else has a Better Way, I'm open to suggestion]
Anyway, the Zipline is the second line that the big wall leader takes with him on lead. Since it is a critical link, it should be attached to the leader's harness with a locker.
Leaders who "get it" will run the top of their zipline through a hauling device [like a Wall Hauler or a Petzl Mini-Traxion] in a ready-to-zip configuration. This does not obviate the need for you also attaching the zipline to your harness with a locker for redundancy! If you drop your zipline on an overhanging or traversing pitch [which is the very nature of most aid pitches] you are buggered. If you do not understand what I mean by "buggered", then go try it and see what happens to you. [HINT] Can you spell, "downaid"?
The Zipline should have its own dedicated Zipline Bag - any nylon drawstring bag with a clip-in loop sewn onto it opposite the drawstring closure will work. The most important thing to know about Ziplines is to mark the middle.
As your leader is climbing, you [the belayer] are feeding out both lead rope and zipline. As you see the centre of the zipline coming up, you yell to your leader,
"You're at the middle of the zipline, dude! You need anything?"
This will allow you to zip stuff up to the leader, and still allow you to pull the zipline back down, and stack it in its bag. After your leader passes the halfway mark of your zipline, you will need to attach the top of the hauline to the bottom of the zipline, in order to get it back to you. For this reason, the bottom of the zipline also has its own dedicated locker, as does the top of each haul line. Don't use standard crabs - these are critical links, and require lockers.
Also note that when you zip stuff to your leader, you can attach it to the zipline with either an alpine butterfly knot [easier to undo] or a clove hitch. The advantage of the clove hitch is that when the leader removes the crab, there is no knot left to untie. A knot left in your zipline is an invitation to disaster as the wind whips it irretrievably into a crack.
As the leader approaches the upper belay, you - the belayer - need to get stuff ready to zip up. Let's assume a more complex scenario, that you are hauling two pigs. You will probably want to do this on longer and harder walls. While you could haul your load as a single 2:1, it is far easier and more efficient to make two 1:1 hauls, despite the need for a second haul line. Your call, of course.
In this case, you will need to get ready to put onto the zip line:
2 cordelettes
2 Power Point lockers
2 Hauling devices and lockers
1 2:1 Hauling Ratchet [as needed]
Extra crabs and slings for setting up the belay
Top of "Left" [Left Haul Line]
Top of "Right" [Right Haul Line]
By the way, if there is anyone here reading this who plans to climb a big wall, and does not own Motorola Two-Way Walkie-Talky Radio Thingies .... BUY SOME! Yelling is for BWT's! Throw in a couple corners or roofs, and some 50 mph convective winds, and communciation is impossible. Buy the damn radios.
Now, when you attach stuff to the zipline, at least let give your leader enough slack in the zipline to put his hauling device through one of the belay anchors. Don't make him lift the weight of all the stuff on the zipline! Have a heart, eh?
Attach the stuff with an alpine butterfly knot to the Zipline, and shout,
"Ready to Zip!"
You should also repeat back to each other a complete inventory of what's on the zipline - it's easy to forget stuff. The last thing you as the leader want to happen is to pull up 200' of zipline, only to find yer missin' somethin'! Sheesh.
Something like,
"Ready to Zip! Two cordalettes, two Power Point Lockers, two hauling devices, hauling ratchet, slings and crabs, top of left, top of right, OK Conridge - Hollaway!"
Only true Hoser Canadian Football League fans will "get" the gag....
When you attach your haul lines to the zipline, separate them by about ten feet. If the upper belay station is to the right of you, then put the right haul line on top. Have your leader pull up about ten feet, then yell,
"HO! Attaching Left!"
Now here's the part where you have to pay attention, especially if you're climbing at night! [Once it's dark, you should be in your ledge drinking beer or whisky, and listening to tunes, but sometimes you might be gunning to make a nice bivi ledge] You want to keep the left rope kinda under tension as your leader zips it up, while at the same time leaving some extra slack in right. Remember your leader is up and right of you. You want the right haul line to hang down with slack, and you want the left haul line to go straight up the diagonal under a bit of tension. This maximizes the separation between the two ropes, and prevents them from twisting.
Get it?
Anyway, what's the best diameter for a zipline?
Well, currently I use 5mm, which is fine for zipping.
When I climbed Sea of Dreams, my partner had this really sweet 8mm zipline that we used, and which I liked because it was juggable. It was new, it was not abraded, it was scary as hell, but it was juggable, and it was extremely useful for fixing pitches every now and then.
I think with proper ropework, and being extremely wary of any sharp edges, and either duct-taping the livin' bejeepers out of 'em, or better still - rebelaying beneath them - that an 8mm zipline is ideal. To me, 9mm is overkill, but might be OK. Static rope is fine for this application.
I am Dr. Piton,
and I would rather be climbing than writing about it.
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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This we have some cause to doubt.
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Melissa
Big Wall climber
oakland, ca
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"I am Dr. Piton,
and I would rather be climbing than writing about it. "
Although I was hoping you'd stay away from Yosemite, I have to admit that I wish you were climbing instead of writing about it too.
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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For what it's worth
(lost track of the original topic there somehow)
I used to run a 6mm second rope, but it scared me too much when rappelling, and I replaces it with Mr. Skinny, a 7mm that's good enough to haul a pack/water etc., and doesn't cause fervent theological conversation every time I rap off it.
It's way scary to jug. Not recommended, though I did it once in the L.A. Chimney gully where lots of weight was on my feet.
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Ben Wah
Social climber
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Rhodo Router:
Just out of Curiosity, what is the LA Chimney gully? Do you mean the chimney itself?
if you did, how is it you ended up jugging in there? Sounds like it could be an interesting tale.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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I'm gonna get me a 6mm tag line. Are there any options out there other than 6mm accesory cord? I want something that will stand up to hauling light loads or can even be doubled up for rappells in the hills.
More like a 6mm static rope.
I once saw some Euro brand rope called an Alpine Escape (??) in a shop but can't track the thing down now.
I think its Canadian...
http://www.espritropes.com/
I have their 6mm personal alpine escape rope. Really like it. Wears like iron. I pull stuff up on it quite often. Also have used in combo with a lead line for rappelling. 60m in bone dry fits in a smallish bagguette (I like feeding it out of a rope bag/bucket). Real stiff cord but I've had mine for going on a year and other than being dirty, shows not much sign of wear. Dry coating seems robust.
I don't see it listed on their website, but, they do make it. Give 'em a jingle.
Brian in SLC
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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"Wears like iron."
Do you mean wears like steel? Cause iron wears like sh#t...
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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Ben Wah-
Nanook & I were fixing pitches on Dante's Inferno, which takes off to the L of the Lost Arrow. The gully is a trough of sorts that swoops upwards to become the LA Chimney. It's maybe 5.8 or .9 Dunno if that's all that interesting, but there you have it. We didn't find any bits of soloists or anything...
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dante's Inferno?
Didn't Nanook solo that in the fall of '95 or '96? Worth a repeat?
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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No, he did it with me.
Not really.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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I remember distinctly hanging out with Nanook that fall. I had my camper van parked in the old Centre of the Universe [the legit one!] which is now the parking lot with the Train Wreck. Chongo came by every morning, but wouldn't drink coffee because he was a slackline walker, and it gave him the shakes [so he said]. I think he drinks the stuff now.
I was absolutely amazed that this kid could solo a big wall! I couldn't begin to imagine someone pulling off such a feat. Little did I know....
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eddy
climber
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Jun 10, 2004 - 10:16am PT
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Sorry to re-direct the chat, but there was mention of "safe working load" on this topic. I am also in the market for a second line, not so much for hauling as for full length rope rappels. Being new to static lines, I was naturally curious of the concept of a safe working load. Anyone know how important this factor is in using the line in concert with a dynamic rope for rappels?
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foster
climber
nc
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Nov 16, 2006 - 02:50pm PT
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bump
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