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dondraper
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 21, 2019 - 09:37am PT
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The pc brigade has attacked John Long over his attempt to start a anti sexual harassment code.
It’s on the neutered so cal climbing Facebook page, an extension of d#@&%e David potters meetup group.
Complaint feminism Gen-Z social media activists who run this schtick whenever they can to gain and maintain their cult leader status in the outdoor/climbing overlap with the new far-left identitarian sphere (kinda a mirror image of alt-right white nationalism). And it's working! They have thousands of fans (disciples?) and companies sponsor or support them with gear, attention, and funded travel. To them, any evidence of disproportionate participation in any activity is proof of oppression/discrimination. It's not a falsifiable worldview (making it religious not empirical) since any question of their assertions, any request for clarification, or criticism by a male or a white person is simply further evidence "male fragility" or "white fragility".
It's a living embodiment of grievance studies ideas smuggled into high status climbers.
They were primary voices behind the recent online mobbing to get Alpinist editor Christian Beckwith fired from his charity as well as fighting with The Climbing Zine, various companies who have quasi-sponsored or supported them, Camber Outdoors, Evening Sends and probably more groups. It's the usual suspects of people with little real-world climbing experience, accomplishments or breadth/depth of history in the sport, but who preform recreational outrage for clicks and play social media well and constantly. If you want to give them the clicks, their numerous social media presences are constantly supporting each other's outrages and finding new targets. Many climbers buy into it to feel "woke" and righteous.
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
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May 21, 2019 - 09:52am PT
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Bunch of punters.
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dondraper
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2019 - 09:58am PT
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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May 21, 2019 - 01:11pm PT
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I really like what John wrote. As I stated on the tread, those who don't like it are the ones who don't get it and desperately need to. They are part of the problem.
I speculate that is bit of wisdom from old Largo is hard won through his many years of observation and possibly pulling his own mistakes.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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May 21, 2019 - 01:16pm PT
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Grievance studies?
lol!
I love that term, since it describes those "disciplines" perfectly. For those who care, a professor in Oregon made up a bunch of journal articles he and his cohorts submitted to allegedly peer-reviewed journals devoted to various grievance studies, many of which were published.
My favorite was titled “Our Struggle Is My Struggle: Solidarity Feminism As An Intersectional Reply To Neoliberal And Choice Feminism.” It consisted of a chapter of Mein Kampf, with the anti-Semitism references changed to politically correct jargon. It was not only published, but received several laudatory reviews.
And they wonder why so many employers sneer at graduates who majored in such things!
John
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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May 21, 2019 - 01:26pm PT
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John has nailed it IMHO. Well done.
(Is there a female Navy SEAL yet?)
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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May 21, 2019 - 01:50pm PT
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I'm having trouble calibrating my rage without seeing what is being said about Mr. Long's proposed code, which seems perfectly reasonable to me.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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May 21, 2019 - 02:41pm PT
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JL does it again.
Great work, John!
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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May 21, 2019 - 02:48pm PT
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In the limited material I saw screenshot on MP the issue wasn’t Largo’s content, but questioning him as a messenger, I.e you shouldn’t be writing this segment, you’ve never been formally trained, etc.
Possibly true, but he wasn’t looking for a new author, just feedback on a last minute inclusion.
Honestly, after the recent dustup with Christian Beckwith that involved many of the same players, I’m ready to wash my hands of the whole thing. I get that that’s the definition of privilege, but when people are being harassed for having the audacity try to start a conversation when they’re not a member of the aggrieved group, my instinct is to let them shoulder the project on their own.
You organize a festival aimed at increasing representation in the outdoors, You write a book about harassment in the outdoor community, but good luck getting half the interest (and attendant exposure) that these two did.
Edit for link to the screenshot I referenced earlier
https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116997632/removed-people-attack-john-long
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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May 21, 2019 - 02:58pm PT
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Nicely said JL!
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dondraper
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2019 - 03:29pm PT
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Now the complaint gym climbing feminists are attacking Hazel Findlay's Instagram for being white while climbing in Mongolia.
That is not allowed.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 21, 2019 - 03:43pm PT
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JL may not be a professionally trained expert, but he is a good writer, and he really sets the bar high, which is what is needed. Plus, he was asked to come up with something, and also welcomed suggestions. How can anyone pounce on that?
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WBraun
climber
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May 21, 2019 - 04:01pm PT
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JL may not be a professionally trained expert.
Thank god he ain't a specially trained monkey like them copying each others horesh!t masquerading it as some special knowledge ....
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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May 21, 2019 - 05:15pm PT
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That things sure caught fire. Surprised me.
I would remind that when one of the Z-Gen posters said that all men were, by their very nature, sexual predators, it's unlikely that such misandry (man hating) was derived entirely from living under a misogynistic, repressive male hierarchy. Some insist they are simply stating a biologically determined fact. I don't doubt some believe this, and call that being "woke." But my sense of it is their outrage runs much deeper, into personal histories that likely are dark as night. And they'll hate me all the more for such "mansplaining," when any sober person has to wonder. I don't personalize any of this, especially from people I've never met. My only concern was to try and find a way out of the mess by way of a simple code of etiquette that's not meant to solve or even address all feminist concerns, but rather to avert the sexual harassment that has been called to my attention by female athletes I know from the Adidas Athlete team, which I work with on a very part time basis. The part I do disregard out of hand is the claim that such a code will serve no useful purpose, is useless and trivializes a problem I to which I am entirely ignorant, and which it is arrogant, smug, and typical of a white male to even tackle.
There's a tendency to shut down, shame and ridicule any voice but those inside the most radical corners of this camp. The animus would curl your hair. But I'm not rapping off just yet. The code, I think, should be addressed only to males. Perhaps that way we can make some little progress. But as always, I'm open for suggestions.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
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May 21, 2019 - 05:21pm PT
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My Dad had a simple saying about how his son’s will treat women in general....” you treat your Mother, better than you would treat God.” His message was taken to heart. If you can’t figure out how a woman should be treated, you probably shouldn’t be around them. Respect...and it goes both ways.
Hope you are well John...taking The Bird on another road trip next week.
Peace
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Trump
climber
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May 21, 2019 - 05:38pm PT
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I’m gonna ponder the grievance I have with those grievance studies folks. Ah heck, I’m gonna pull the trigger and post about it!
It used to be that people’s thoughts stayed in their heads a lot more than they do in the generation of the generation z. And on an entirely unrelated topic, I am your president, somehow.
Either way though, grievance studier, grievance studier studier, thanks for your thoughts.
That John Long fella seems to do a lot of thinking. That’s cool - I admire that.
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Aeriq
Sport climber
100-year Visitor
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May 21, 2019 - 06:13pm PT
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Well written, John!
The problem with specialization is one tend to think only within that area of "expertise" - and it comes with blinders and gets predatory, apparently...
This type of thinking takes us all away from a larger understanding through semantics, vocabulary and exclusion.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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May 21, 2019 - 09:38pm PT
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John,
spot on! The current climate you describe doesn't want dialogue, especially from people who don't share their same views. It's sad to see people who claim to be enlightened and aware behaving in exactly the opposite manner.
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