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Levy
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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It's funny but when I saw photos & videos of Pamela's mega rig and I kept thinking that it didn't look all that hard. Now that the boyz have had at it I see that my impressions were likely correct. I look forward to news of further repeats and hopefully the belay anchor bolts get replaced.
In addition, those guys stories are very entertaining!
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Good climbing content.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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I haven’t been on the whole route, but I failed to onsight the mental block pitch. But again, I didn’t lie back it....
Maybe their approach is more expedient for getting past it in the hot sun, I’ll never know, but, it would be like laybacking the first part of Coyne crack ( which is generally looked down upon stylistically) It would have been interesting to see what they thought had they jammed it in the manner of the FFA
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Onsighting a five year epic with runouts and loose blocks where the bolts have been chopped, is that epic?
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WBraun
climber
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Sometimes you just plain pull it off in layback.
Example on FA of Freestone Dale fist jammed the OW up there.
We came and found laybacking for 40foot run out made life sweet and easier.
On Sky Dale took 30 footer trying to OW the first 20 feet or so.
Kauk laybacked it and got the FA.
Not everything is always what it seems at first ......
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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An interesting pair of routes with a lot of history. As an on and off member of the team since we first got on them in 2011(?) I have some knowledge of the rock, shenanigans and history.
This is not Indian creek quality rock. Literally tons of material have peeled of spontaneously or been cleaned. The first pitch of KA, the 5.12, calf-lock pitch, did not even appear until a large flake sporting a bolt ladder was found on the ground having calved off revealing a silt filled slot. I’ll find some photos of cleaning that out, an epic that ended in a trip to the infectious disease center in Denver and treatment for valley fever.
Another pitch had such razor sharp calcite encrustations that a series of lead rope were deeply splayed. A bolt was placed in there to keep the rope from running on those edges. Also hats off to Randy Leavitt for supplying Pam with a special rope for that pitch!
Given that history and my background in geology, I’m not going to be surprised, when I find the mental block on the ground, or all the way down the five hundred foot hillside to the road, someday.. It’s way bigger than the Texas trundle I did on Texas tower in the 90’s. A driveway sized but much thinner flake that made a deafening sound in that narrow canyon.
Or being a rock, maybe it will stay a while longer, no way to tell. I know I’d never place cams behind it!
Then there was last summers sneak attack by two inexperienced, wannabe name climbers who slunk out there in August. ( on a south facing wall, in the desert) and chopped the bolts on KA using aid and anchors from the adjacent Route dark passenger to fuel their effort. One of them claimed it was to get Pam’s attention, but not to be disrespectful, oh no. But somehow in spite of that he didn’t speak up until he learned we were going to go back up there to finish the route on a temperate weekend in November. May his name be forgotten!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Ha ha, so true Werner! I jammed Freeestone, btw, on my onsight. I like to think I wouldn’t have been comfortable with it had I laybacked, but I was young and hungry then, too!
I did end up liebacking Sky though😎
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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The number of people who try hard offwidth routes is an order of magnitude or more smaller than those who try other types of hard climbing. Forever War at Vedauwoo is another supposedly 5.13 climb that is probably closer to 5.11+ or 12-.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Pam sure has gotten some harsh treatment over the years. Those routes look grisly. True 5.11 off size is the business.
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Smassey
Trad climber
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Curious as to how many of ya’ll sh#t talkers have repeated any of her routes or actually seen her climb? Likely none. So get over your jealousy or “what you’ve heard” from blah blah blah wanna-be/never-has-been ex-partner(s). Talk-action=0.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Pack is passionate about what she does and can get testy about it. ... text messages from Pamela Pack, a professional off-width climber.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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I've noticed over the years that whenever someone is posited as "elite," or knows or understands something or has done something the rest of us have not, or maybe we too have done it but don't get recognized, a percentage of us feel "less than" and start balking, often using the excuse of providing "objective information" (re: downrating, telling the "real story" etc) to address what is a subjective challenge (she's better, smarter, more accomplished, gets more press, is more popular, etc). Jealousy turns to resentments and the rest of us have to hear a bunch of silly rants. Then again, some people just get under everyone's skin, so who knows.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Comeuppance begets schadenfreude?
Entertaining from my armchair. Especially the nuances.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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from Pete's account:
"Overall, I thought both routes were brilliant. And despite the hype on Kill Artist about the loose blocks and runout nature of the climb, I actually thought it was safe to do with the bolts gone and completely on natural protection. It does seem a shame the belay bolts had been chopped though, as it’s quite inconvenient to have to now carry up 2 extra #6's to build a belay. However, you know the tactics now folks; Seconders, offload as much gear as possible to the leader. And leader, never accept it, you know the real truth of what your seconder is trying to do :)
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Thanks for putting the time in to cleaning and establishing both routes Pamela and partners they are classics which people can definitely go and enjoy. I look forward to repeating the next ones you establish."
I was in Moab at IC when Pam was working this route and sent it [note: it's a Moab area climb, not IC]. The freaky nature of the climb is fully captured by the naming of the "Mental Block." First ascents are journeys into the unknown, and the genuine experience of the first ascent are captured in the Kill Artist video. Once the route is up, cleaned, equipped, mapped out, known, it is possible for the subsequent ascents assess the style, difficulty, objective dangers, and all that without any of the uncertainty. Tom and Pete are definitely a great team to take up the challenge of the second ascent, connoisseurs of the desert off-width circuit.
The nature of the first ascent experience belongs to the first ascent team only. Those who do first ascents understand. You get to peek in on the process with that video, but only part of it... seeing Pam wiped out after days of hard work and talking about the day's trials and tribulation over dinner are memories left only to those that were there.
You can now go and do Kill Artist and report back you own impressions of an established route.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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a percentage of us feel "less than" and start balking I don't see it this way at all.
When something legit happens, it's really just a very small % of the unknowing that cast doubt.
How many other Pams are there in the climbing world - today - frankly way more talented and fit than she'll ever be - but nobody hears about them because they've taken a place in the real game - not some fake smoke and mirrors bullshit side show - so nobody has heard about them because they're just not at the top of it?
Yeah - that's pretty much going to get called out.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Good on Pam. Like Lynnie years before, she's leading the way.
"It goes, boys"!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Actually D2R2, that’s exactly what I said to Tom Herbert when he “did it”!
And Grug tough words, for not having done it yourself😎... though to be fair, when I did it, I thought the non invert way was fairly solid 5.12
Nice fantasy caught, you have a vivid imagination, and clearly weren’t present. Or maybe you mean You toproped it?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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There are a few out there who seem to delight in the 2nd ascent just so they can downgrade it....
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Clipping a bolt is a top rope now? Like putting a cam over your head?
Are you drawing a distinction between those. How does that, work?
You’ve seen a video, I’ve led the pitch. It ain’t a toprope!
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