Ice Cimbing Breaking The Rulze

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tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 22, 2019 - 08:55am PT

Breaking the Rulze. One of the rules that many well known ice climbers tout is Never move up on a placement that is not completely Bomber. I would have to add the disclaimer Except when... Ideally and in a perfect world every placement we make when we are leading or soling is bomber. In real life the world is neither perfect nor always ideal. Sometimes the ice is just crap and the more you swing the worse it is going to get. One of the best examples of this is the Canadian guide swinging 5 times into the top of a massive ice pillar that collapses on the 5th swing. Sometimes we just have to recognize what is sufficient for upward progress and settle for less than bomber. I do this fairly often, especially on thin ice where you can not afford to chop it all away. I rely of footwork and body positioning to attain upward progress that will safely get you past the crap ice to a bomber stick. This requires a delicate touch, confidence and complete understanding of all the factors involved. Often just moving your feet up a few inches gets you to better ice. Ideally you will never do more than one consecutive move on a less than bomber placement but the world is not ideal

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Mar 22, 2019 - 09:06am PT

There is a reason that the difference between leading and following is considerably greater in ice climbing than in any other form of climbing.
Thanks for keeping it real for folks here most of whom never see the leaves fall off of the trees in their yards.

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Mar 22, 2019 - 09:11am PT

TFPU

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2019 - 09:34am PT

Here is a perfect though extreme example of how and why it is not always prudent to try to get that perfect bomber stick. [Click to View YouTube Video] I recently read a Will Gad article about why you should never move up on a less than bomber stick. Then I watched a video of Will Gad soloing Repentance @ Cathedral Ledge NH. Anyone who has ever led that 3rd pitch will attest that there is no such thing as a bomber stick on the exit moves past the chockstone ;)

briham89

Big Wall climber

santa cruz, ca

Mar 22, 2019 - 09:36am PT

Hell ya.....climbing post. I'm confused though....were you free soloing or lead solo? There is a rope in one shot and I can't see the rope in the other, but you have screws. I'm curious what device you were using to lead solo ice if you were.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2019 - 09:39am PT

My bad it was Steve House that soloed Repentance.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2019 - 09:51am PT

I Never rope solo on ice. Too much hassle. In the first shot I am leading but being miserly with the screw placements. Saving hardware and gas for the hard part. 2nd shot I am soloing. Myself and most of my friends in the NE that solo ice seem to follow the same system. Ice climbing is 100% gear dependent. If something critical breaks and you have no back up plan you are up the creek without a paddle. I have broken 2 picks soloing and several crampon bails. 1 mono point. Crampons occasionally fall off. The modern crampons completely fall apart when the spacer bar breaks. Soloing anything committing that I could not get off of with one tool and one crampon I wear a harness, carry 4 screws and have a skinny half rope in my pack. If something breaks or the conditions or my head are not right I build an anchor and V thread off. 4 screws. Two to build an anchor, one to make the V thread and one to drop....

briham89

Big Wall climber

santa cruz, ca

Mar 22, 2019 - 10:37am PT

That makes sense. Thanks for the info!

Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Mar 22, 2019 - 11:10am PT

Nice to see climbing content!

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber

Old and Broken Down in Appalachia

Mar 22, 2019 - 11:24am PT

There is something seriously - SERIOUSLY- wrong with ice climbers.

wbw

Trad climber

'cross the great divide

Mar 22, 2019 - 11:27am PT

Great and insightful post, Tradman.

As Donini said, the difference between leading vs. top roping on ice is far more pronounced than on rock. This is actually an aspect of climbing ice that has drawn me more to it as I turn into an old fart. With each passing ice season, I find my experience and my ability to make judgement calls on things such as ice conditions increases. It is relatively rare that I find myself in situations I don't feel are familiar, because of all of the years of swinging tools into a medium that is by it's very nature unstable.

With that said, it is an unstable medium, and judgement is never perfect. I have always considered myself to be more of a rock climber than an ice climber, and have always felt climbing ice is a pretty silly thing to do.

But I do love being out in winter conditions, and find it to be a very rewarding, silly thing to do.

fear

Ice climber

hartford, ct

Mar 22, 2019 - 11:35am PT

Soloing anything committing that I could not get off of with one tool and one crampon I wear a harness, carry 4 screws and have a skinny half rope in my pack.

I do too... Most of the guys soloing around here don't however and look at me like I'm nuts... lol. Good to see I'm not alone in my paranoia.

FWIW I've never had a CM/Petzl pick break, ever. Bend sure but not snap. BD picks seem to be much more brittle as many friends have snapped multiple picks.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2019 - 11:35am PT

Cudos for being Silly :) I can only Imagine the horror of My friend Ed Esmonds the sport climber if he was forced to rapell from the fixed threads at this station. I thoughtthe fixed threads were so bomber I only added one screw to the belay as an afterthought. Ed declared that ice is much better suited for cocktails than climbing:)

fear

Ice climber

hartford, ct

Mar 22, 2019 - 11:58am PT

Ha... I remember climbing with a good friend who was new to ice but had been on a lot of long trad/rock. He stared up as I started up something easy in Smuggs to the left of Dougs Route (the pillar was not in enough for me...). There was a 80' horizontal row of dangling daggers a few hundred feet above and he asked "Can't those fall down?". I replied, "Oh they will, all of them too eventually, but hopefully not today."

Then I needed to find another ice partner for the next trip....

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2019 - 02:31pm PT

I used to make Ed go ice climbing once a year. Ed would politely show me all the great spots that should be equipped with 1/2in epoxy bolts for belays, rappels and protection etc. all the while reminding me that fish swim in this water 9 months of the year and exactly why are we climbing it instead of crushing it up and putting it in martinis? After one particularly fun climb where perhaps I made him rappel several hundred feet from a V thread Ed must have decided that Ice climbing was dangerous. The next winter he let some drunken jamoke on a sport fishing boat fall on his leg and break it just so he would have a good excuse to not go ice climbing with me. I never had the heart to talk him into it again..

mouse from merced

Trad climber

The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.

Mar 22, 2019 - 03:11pm PT

SLR, I'm with you, ice climbing is for the mentally impaired.

Not that ice climber aren't the nicest folks in the world...one of my close associates claims to be one.

Tami Knight had them pegged long ago, along with spelunkers.

One was partially brain-damaged while the other was more so.

This is a good thread, however, with FINE pix of ice-picks and good ideas.

And silliness is appreciated.

I'm thinking of the Wicked Witch of the West on an ice pillar, suddenly yelling out, "It's MELTING!"

10b4me

Social climber

Lida Junction

Mar 22, 2019 - 03:18pm PT

One of the best climbing trips I had was an ice climbing trip to Ouray in 2011.

norm larson

climber

wilson, wyoming

Mar 22, 2019 - 04:39pm PT

Ice is nice, except when it isn’t. I never thought of rules when ice climbing. One placement at a time. Kind of like aid climbing. Don’t let yourself get too far ahead of where you are right now. Nice post. Nice to see ice that isn’t all picked out making for a less than real experience in my mind. Stay safe at least as safe as the situation allows, have fun that’s the rule.