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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Feb 19, 2019 - 04:28pm PT
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I can really only think of two ways that they will stop Gluey Louie from doing this.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Feb 19, 2019 - 04:58pm PT
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It would be a hassle, but if you could get the State Legislature to pass a law saying it is illegal to glue and chip, then a few bigger, stronger climbers can make a "citizen's arrest." If the climbs are on federal land, makes it more complex, but maybe get something legal in place, so at least there is a precedent if he tries to relocate elsewhere.
To younger climbers who support him, if a route is over your grade, you have two options, stay off that route or top rope it. There is nothing at all wrong with top roping a route that is a bit above your grade, and hang dogging.
Years ago, when I worked at Tuolumne Lodge, one of our cooks wanted to throw his beer cans in the river. He was an old, broken down alcoholic who had lived in the city his entire life. Some people just don't get certain things.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 19, 2019 - 05:38pm PT
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Time for a visit from the Glue Crux Clan. Nawmean?
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Levy
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Feb 19, 2019 - 05:43pm PT
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For what it's worth, I have known Louie for many years and have enjoyed many a day at the crags with him. He is very motivated and friendly but I have seen firsthand how his ethics rub off on a new group of climbers who have gone on to establish new routes with an ethical style that I for one find appalling.
Here in Southern California, I saw how his friends pretty much hacked to death a crag near Acton. There is a classic crack climb, established by Ron Carson and Scott Loomis called the Electromagnetic Crack. This is one of the better cracks in the Los Angeles area. My friends & I had eyed some other potential routes but they were a bit too blank and we left them for a future generation. A few years pass and I hear from friends that a new slew of routes had been done there by friends of Louie's, Brent, Gary & Graham. I went over to see what had been added and it was disgusting how they hacked numerous pockets into the rock to force some 5.12's.
This is a perfect example of what the Ten Sleep community is worried about and they are correct in that by not condemning these practices, we inadvertently condone this kind of behavior which leads to the rock being damaged and opportunities for cutting edge routes lost forever to future generations of climbers. I applaud their efforts to nip this in the bud.
William Leventhal
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Feb 19, 2019 - 07:11pm PT
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If the article is accurate, sounds like he's doing this at least partly to support a "climbing ranch" business. At a minimum, get people to boycott that.
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couchmaster
climber
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Feb 19, 2019 - 08:39pm PT
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Aaron Huey is THE man! Damn Californian climbers will show up, screw your sheep, bag yer routes (with glue no less) and piss on your ropes. Sorry Wyoming boyz. But it wasn't me this time and rest assured I never touched your sheep. Except maybe in my dreams. You'll best get it straightened out mano E manno I suspect, that's the best way. The negativity you'll create by a massive whinny bitchy publicity program like this is counterproductive. Simply sit these guys down and talk it out like real Wyomingsianions or whatever you call yourselves these days.
More background links:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2655577&msg=2655727#msg2655727
http://www.aaronhuey.com/
Screw it, stunning pic I'm putting it up again (clearly not my picture) go to Arron Hueys site there's craploads more, all good stuff:
Such a fantastic picture.....never met the man but can't believe he'd let petty sh#t like this become an internet shitstorm without sitting down and working it out person to person. Could be wrong. I struck out with Bernie in 2016.
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mike a.
Sport climber
ca
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Feb 19, 2019 - 09:33pm PT
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Feb 19, 2019 - 09:46pm PT
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Slippery slope? Just chisel your way out.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Feb 20, 2019 - 08:11am PT
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It's an issue worth a very serious discussion.
Levy sort of mirrored my initial thought . Louis is an industrious guy and has made many valid contributions in his climbing career . It's unfortunate that he allowed himself to go so far down this rabbit hole he can no longer see or respect the spirit of outdoor climbing or preservation of the natural landscape at all. I find it very distressing to see this lack of ethics and selfish behavior being taught to the next generation of developers. It's sad this is what Louis will be remembered for.
So... How do we move forward as a community preserving these resources for the future? Every climbing are is unique- how do we establish (and enforce?) ethics for a particular area? If this is being done on public land - it endangers access for everyone. I'd say some self- policing and removal/ restoration would be in order In this particular case.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 20, 2019 - 09:40am PT
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Another tagger/ vandal from SoCal soils wyo at all our expense....
Great that he has a good sid, maybe he will return to it. Or go back to so cal....
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Nick Danger
Ice climber
Arvada, CO
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Feb 20, 2019 - 11:03am PT
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Send this guy to some urban concrete bridge abutment or highway retaining wall and let him scratch that particular itch there - sort of a win-win. Just don't let him out into the woods with anything more than a rack of stoppers and hexes.
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Feb 20, 2019 - 05:54pm PT
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Bear ...with me : why can't people like this just find some bigger route to climb? Who the hell cares if someone else did it first? So many bad ass routes out there that I would be super proud to be the 5 to nth millionith to climb. Topropes are for chickenshits while one chisels their way to fam...…? Count me humbly out, looking to make some $$$$$ for a REAL adventure. Have no kids to worry about, anyone want to join in ;)
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couchmaster
climber
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Feb 20, 2019 - 06:43pm PT
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Clearly you're going to miss out on the upcoming crucifixion. ^^^As a minimum people seem to need to fire up an internet shitstorm so that people who can't spell Ten Sleep, have never been there and can't find EVEN Colorado on the map let alone spell it....it's in Colorado right?. Anyway, lets get the pitchforks and torches out, someone needs to sh#t on his ropes and kill his dogs because folks can't have a personal conversion man to sheep direct like most folks in Colo.
COME ON BITCHES WE'RE OFF TO BURN HIS HOUSE DOWN AND KILL HIS DOG!
PS, the above is full on sarcasm. Seriously guys....most of us don't know the guy, don't know the routes, don't know you, don't know sh#t from shinola but we all still get to weight in on it all anyway? Seriously, this is f*#king wrong. This thread is worse than the chipping. The chipping/gluing accusations suck, but this is suckier. This is what you guys want? Really? Can't we treat each other a tad better. Please, please, sit down and have an honest discussion together. Mooch? You want this bullshit to spin out of control with the things idiots like us will bring to a sh#t show?
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dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
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Feb 20, 2019 - 06:49pm PT
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+2 what justthemaid said..
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RURP_Belay
Big Wall climber
Bitter end of a bad anchor
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Feb 20, 2019 - 06:52pm PT
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Good points Levy and Maidy.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 21, 2019 - 07:45am PT
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Hey, if he has a job you could picket his workplace like he’s a granitic abortionist!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 21, 2019 - 10:20am PT
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I haven't seen Louie for years, but when I knew him, he was a friend and a really great guy to hang with.
I'm not personally into his (apparently) present style, but I'm with Couch on this one.
This thread is much ado about very little. It's a STYLISTIC rather than ethical issue. Or, at least, what most are calling "ethics" is on a REALLY broad continuum! SO broad that making an "ethical" case is tendentious at best!
We've all climbed routes with bolts for pro. Indeed, the "free" climbs on even sacred El Cap were almost entirely retrobolted. We've engaged in rock-destruction for countless decades, and unless you are basically free-soloing everything, you've engaged in it too. And that "norm" is totally accepted, but it's widespread rock-destruction.
We've all at least implicitly acknowledged that our sport alters the rock in all sorts of ways, but we've adopted a set of "acceptable" alterations and then called anything outside that norm "ethical violations." But what Louie is (apparently) doing are not "ethical violations." He's outside the STYLISTIC norms, and that's about as lofty of a statement as you can sustain.
Access issues? Well, that's a tenuous case to make. It varies wildly by area, and some areas have ceased to allow even drilled protection. Others have realized that a wide spectrum of "rock destruction" is really relatively minimal, even by (apparently) Louie's style, and rock climbing has such an established history, that the wanton destruction is considered to be part of the established land-usage (as in Yosemite). It is rightly recognized as minimal by comparison to the established value of the usage.
If there ARE noises by the relevant land-managers to the effect that they are actively uncomfortable with the level of destruction at a particular area, well, having known Louie, I'd be really surprised if a friendly conversation regarding the concerns of the land-managers wouldn't have the desired effect. But maybe some of the climbers posting here are much more "concerned" than are the relevant land-managers! Does anybody even KNOW?
Beyond that, I'd say that ANY time a group of people gets itself all fired up over PERCEIVED "ethical" issues, and where that group of people just KNOWS that it has the "high moral ground," that is a group that is off the rails and fixing to do something much worse than whatever "ethical violation" it's all fired up about in the first place.
Be it religious fundamentalism, left or right-wing fundamentalism, or a group of climbers holding forth with religious fury, ALL forms of fundamentalism are a huge mistake.
So, maybe let's ratchet the rhetoric back a bunch of notches, talk with the relevant land-managers about their ACTUAL take on the area in question (or maybe, better yet, leave sleeping dogs lie), and have some ongoing, CIVIL conversations with Louie.
And if you don't get your way, well, guess what? It's a free country, and climbing remains one of the last bastions of freedom of expression. It's ironic seeing climbers over the decades turn into religious fundamentalists. From Robbins v. Harding to the many other similar incidents that have emerged, it's always the "Valley Christians" with the "high moral ground" finding "ethics" where there AREN'T any!
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Feb 21, 2019 - 10:34am PT
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....but if you could get the State Legislature to pass a law....
Solves nothing.... ever.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Feb 21, 2019 - 02:57pm PT
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Maybe all these "routes" are like Refiner's Fire, sprayed about but never climbed?
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