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Roots
Mountain climber
Redmond, Oregon
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 19, 2018 - 10:28am PT
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Well actually "raking" might be difficult to do but I think Trump meant 'clean up your forest', just like you would do in your garden to keep it healthy.
It's practiced here in the Cascades...the debri is picked up and stacked into large piles. Then burned as a prescribed burn. Rural parks in town have their needles and pine cones picked up by cleaning crews...
Why do many think this is a bad idea and would not help to prevent massive forest fires?
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 19, 2018 - 10:32am PT
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I think Trump meant 'clean up your forest', just like you would do in your garden to keep it healthy.
Of course, that's what he really meant.
I'm not a fan of Trump at all but can see how the st00pid media and all these nutcase politards here would love to have a field day with this bullsh!t as usual .....
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Nov 19, 2018 - 10:35am PT
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 19, 2018 - 10:41am PT
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Please...is it too much to expect POTUS to be able to speak with more intelligence then a third grader so that internet forums don’t have to debate what he really meant?
Then again...is it too much to expect the general public to see thru Trump’s most blatant lies?
Evidently not...in both cases.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 19, 2018 - 10:46am PT
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Werner, are you suggesting that the media is involved in muckraking?
How !!absurd
--Ray King
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Nov 19, 2018 - 10:50am PT
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Roots, it is practiced here in Ca. also. As you can see it works really well!
The forests managed to do just fine without our help for a few thousand years.
They have not done so well with all of our help.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Nov 19, 2018 - 10:51am PT
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 19, 2018 - 10:57am PT
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To the rescue!
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Nov 19, 2018 - 11:01am PT
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the debri is picked up and stacked into large piles. Then burned as a prescribed burn.
Actually that's slash and burn. Exactly what I did all weekend (all autumn) the reason I am sore today all over.
Prescribed burn is selecting a prescribed piece of land/forest and then burning it during the right conditions. Is generally good but controversial. I don't really want my neighbor doing it and losing control of the situation.
Arne
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 19, 2018 - 11:05am PT
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I blame the Rake Media.
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 19, 2018 - 11:05am PT
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I bet "the" answer will be somewhere different. People managed meadows with fire. Trees were bigger. Not all areas were influenced by people.
Now, more development of forests. More buildings encroaching on second or third growth forests. Fire will have to be used differently, maybe the same, depending on the goals. Some changes take centuries, with increasing CO2 levels, there may not be that much time in some places.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Nov 19, 2018 - 11:07am PT
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...the PrOTUS is mouthy, but not wordy...
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 19, 2018 - 11:18am PT
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ionlyski
Debris is also stacked.
I would know this as I've done this work for Yosemite Fire for months.
It's hard azz work .....
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Nov 19, 2018 - 11:26am PT
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It's hard azz work .....
You got that right:)
And the burning seasons are short so you never get enough done.
Yeah I know you start with a stack but you can't really build it up higher than you can throw it until you get it lit. Then feed it feed it feed it all day long till you come in for late dinner then put your boots back on and go out at night and keep raking it into the center so it burns up nicely.
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perswig
climber
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Nov 19, 2018 - 11:32am PT
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Mooch, Rake Force! Hahaha!
Still chuckling.
Dale
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 19, 2018 - 11:32am PT
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The Miwok managed the valley pretty well BITD until whitey had a better idea.
And it costs how much to "rake" one acre?
Fun Facts
Over 43% of the total acres within the Sierra Nevada Region have a very high or extreme fire hazard rat-
ing. That would be how many million acres.
94% of the land slated for rural residential development in the Sierra Nevada is classified by CAL FIRE
as very high or extreme fire hazard.
http://www.sierranevada.ca.gov/docs/Fire%20and%20Forest%20Facts.pdf
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John M
climber
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Nov 19, 2018 - 11:37am PT
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Wawona is a hairsbreadth away from a catastrophic fire if a wind event happens at the worst time. Wawona is heavily cleared all around it. It has had controlled burns done around 95 percent of it. And still.. during the last fire east of Wawona, with just medium winds the fire almost got into Wawona. Things are and were so dry that with slightly higher downslope winds coming from the East, they probably would have lost some homes.
I use to caretake 6 properties in Wawona. I know how much raking and clearing is done. Some places in Wawona still need work from my limited understanding, but its still better then a lot of towns, and yet it could still burn. Probably not as catastrophically as Paradise, because its a lot smaller, but it could still burn.
So what Trump said was ridiculous, especially comparing Norway, which is at 60 degrees latitude and California which is at 45 degrees.
His comment was also heartless considering he was belittling people who had just lost their homes. Forest service guys lost their homes. Fire fighters lost their homes.
The only area that I believe that clearing would have helped was along the major roads. Many counties up that way have wide through ways cleared around the highways. This way people would have had a safer way to escape. And even that would not have stopped all of the deaths because some of the deaths were caused by people not even having a vehicle to escape in because paradise was heavily populated by retired folks and they no longer owned autos or kept them gassed up.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Redmond, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2018 - 11:37am PT
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Roots, it is practiced here in Ca. also. As you can see it works really well!
The forests managed to do just fine without our help for a few thousand years.
Never noticed it being done in California and I lived there most of my life...guess I couldn't see it as I was under a rock : )
I believe that forest thousands of years ago, burned without being suppressed or managed. -not what residents want now.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Nov 19, 2018 - 11:41am PT
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I believe that forest thousands of years ago, burned without being suppressed or managed. -not what residents want now
That is exactly right. Now we are in a predicament.
edit-and really, more like 150 years ago
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John M
climber
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Nov 19, 2018 - 11:46am PT
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our national forest service fighting capability was born out of some of the largest fires in history before our forests were managed. Whole towns burned down many different times.
read up on the fire of 1910.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_1910
the 1871 fire was worse.
How do you stop drought, beetle kill, and wind?
that doesn't mean that things can't be done to mitigate these worst events. but its costly.
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