Why do people choose love?

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Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 1, 2018 - 03:14pm PT
This topic was suggested to me by someone I highly respect. They didn't say I should make it a thread, but after some thought I think it balances out the "Why do people choose hate" Thread very nicely. I would not want to leave only hate on the table.

And another question....does love really conquer all? We'll see.
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Nov 1, 2018 - 03:16pm PT
Hah! Lynne, saw this coming.

Me, it makes me feel better to be compassionate. To do something that brings a smile to another is important to me. I try to perform an act of kindness every day. Pollyanic? Maybe.

I'm no saint and have said harsh words to others that I regret. What one does today they have to sleep with tonight.

A kind word to another can change their day.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2018 - 03:23pm PT
John you have a good point. Going through the grocery store it is so wonderful to give and usually receive a smile. To me a true smile confirms to the other person that you recognize them as a fellow traveler on this crazy planet. And to smile at someone you need to look into their eyes...the mirror of the soul.
Timid TopRope

Social climber
the land of Pale Ale
Nov 1, 2018 - 03:37pm PT
Halloween Crack delivery system
Halloween Crack delivery system
Credit: Timid TopRope

Almost everyone loves halloween and halloween candy. I am sure many of our returning families are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.

We love to lower down the candy on an old climbing rope from the second floor, a tradition Nita and I started about 12 years ago.

I think part of the answer lies in doing things with our neighbors that make us feel more like a neighborhood and a community.

Share what you love with others and you will find it hard to hate.

PS...good idea for a thread!
moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Nov 1, 2018 - 03:51pm PT
I think part of the answer lies in doing things with our neighbors that make us feel more like a neighborhood and a community.

My thoughts as well, Andy.

Lynne, again, IMO people don't choose. We are the product of our nature/nurture.

You cant change your nature, but nurture can alter it. We are wired to love. It takes a lot to change it.

Moose
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Nov 1, 2018 - 03:58pm PT
Love v. Hate

Altruism > Narcissism

Both are drivers of success, one makes us more deep thinking and compassionate Progressive Humans, the other more like bacteria in a petri dish drowning in our own waste in a dog eat dog Republican world where only individual need is the criteria.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2018 - 04:18pm PT
Kingtut, let's not make this political, please.

I've never liked labels...they are negative. Some of the worst demagogues in history used labels to describe groups and destroy them. People are individuals and we need to get to know the person and again, share ideas.

Years ago and new to this community several in the climbing community shared their ideas with me, it didn't matter I didn't have their knowledge. They have made a difference in my thinking and I thank them for it.

Trump

climber
Nov 1, 2018 - 04:27pm PT
Iím with moose.

We can label it hate or label it love, or label labeling this way or that way, but ultimately I think itís just human behavior, where belief, and kind-hearted, and mean-spirited, tendencies are just part of the mix. And which is greater than which is kind of just a value system that we lay on top of it, partly prolly for the pro-self psychological boost of admiring our own values, and partly prolly to inspire behaviors that we, with our big brains, think would be ďbetter,Ē both in ourselves and others.

Me, Iíd probably be better served with a different belief system, but this is the one Iíve got. Reality has a way of deciding what is better on its own, regardless of what I think.

Not meaning to be political, at least in a partisan sense, just using it as an example that many of us seem to be focused on, but in the US we have a majority wins system, which has inspired a two party system, and which is prolly partly responsible for inspiring our increasingly tribally partisan politics. The same is true for humans in general - our behaviors with respect to love or hate reflect the environment that we live in, and the behaviors that are advantageous to us in that environment.

Short answer Iíd say love inspires us towards pro social behaviors, and pro social behaviors have some upside to them. Wish the opposite werenít also true. Computing socially advantageous beliefs and behaviors is a big causal force in the genesis of these big brains we find ourselves possessing and using.

The equilibrium between believing what is advantageous vs believing what is true, while maintaining a positive sense of identity, is an extremely challenging dynamic for all of us to navigate. But if what we want is to believe what is true, we might all benefit from a little skepticism about whatís truly driving our own beliefs.

Thanks again for what you do Lynne.
ron gomez

Trad climber
Nov 1, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
I believe you do choose Love. Well in reference to relationships. I was 15 years old when it was literally Love at first sight. Saw my, now wife, and it was, thatís the one. We dated and married at 22. Anyone who has been in a relationship has to make a choice, hopefully not to many times, to stay in that relationship....hopefully to stay in love. We made that decision early on, come hell or high water to put the work in to stay together, to work through problems and differences....to stay in Love with each other. EVERYDAY, I ask our Creator to give me the strength to keep working on our Love for each other. Have been with my wife 45 years, 38 of those married.
Even with other relationships, I make a choice to keep working at it and be it a male or female, if I love someone, I make choices to keep that relationship intact, strong and growing.
My 2 cents
Peace
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Nov 3, 2018 - 08:33pm PT
Why do we chose love?

I donít know of any power in my life or the lives of others close to me as strong as love.

Some people process loss and adversity in different ways. We go through the stages of grief and loss at different times and to different degrees. Some people choose to or are unable to process their loss. They find it difficult to express emotions, or cannot fathom the benefits of self analysis.

Like many others I have experienced the tragic loss of close loved ones who died at an early age in life. My brother died many years ago at age 25, and just recently my son died at the age of 41. When my brother died it filled me with such anger and guilt that I ran from the pain and dulled it with drugs, alcohol, climbing, meaningless physical relationships, and whatever way I could find.

Many years went by with my heart numbed but in turmoil before I became sober and began growing up emotionally. Finally, just last summer, I took the long delayed pilgrimage to see the place he loved the most, where his heart was fullest, and where he planned to settle but then so tragically died.

Losing my son is a different story. It has set me on another path and a new kind of journey. My mother died at age 70 in 2005, and not long after I began to write, learning to process my grief in a more constructive manner. It was sad, for she had worked so hard to earn her doctorate, spending a lifetime in education, only to have it whisked away by cancer is such a short time. She died one year to the day from her initial diagnosis, brain tumors and stage four lung cancer.

That year that we spent talking on the phone, and the many visits I took to see her before she passed left an indelible impression on me, for we had buried our grudges and finally excepted each other for all our successes and failures. The takeaway was one thing and one thing only. For all the pushing and pulling we had put each other through during our lives there was only one thing left for us to give to each other in the end. What remained between us at that point was pure love.

For me there was an acceptance and deep empathy for a mother who could not see her family and her hopes for them to full fruition. I understood then and there the full weight and finality of death. What remained for me was to hold her hand, and to tell her as she lie gasping for a breath in a coma, that we would all be fine, that the family would be fine, that it would be OK for her to go when she was ready.

This was the takeaway, the only thing that remains of our lives in the end, if we choose to acknowledge it is love. When my boy died just two months ago, I propped myself up and steeled myself to be strong and support my family in all their grief. I also went through my own private grief, although I did take counsel from several friends and family who had also been through the loss of a child. Along with the shock of losing him so suddenly, I felt great uselessness and anger, but also a guilt so debilitating it threatened to unhinge me.

About a month after he died I could no longer maintain. After some difficulty at work I was washing up at the garage sink and was in a state of complete exhaustion. I had become so absorbed in work I had completely forgotten all about losing him. Then it hit me. He was gone and he was never coming back. Waves of sorrow encompassed me. I sobbed alone as I washed the tears from my face and into the sink. Later that evening, I resolved to never again focus on any negative aspects of our lives together, and to always remember only the good times, and the love, always the love, which we had between us as a father and a son.

I have recently felt some of the burden lifted from me. I know I will always miss him, and I know we never completely get over the loss of people that we love. But I have been fortunate to have loved deeply, and have experienced great love from my spouse and from my family during this life. And love has been the most powerful gift, and the value of it has been the most difficult lesson to learn for me than any other.

-Tim Sorenson
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Nov 3, 2018 - 08:47pm PT
living is giving, as a stupid person's wise bumpersticker said.

love received, seems to me, is the reason we later pay love out. I mean biology and neurochemistry, possibly even an evolutionary and rational self-interest, begat it all in the first, sure, but human giving and learning of love is how it happens these days.

trouble is, this love thing is pretty front-loaded on the enjoyment and backside on the cost. it's pretty f*#kin' worth it, you ask me.

cheers, love
Aeriq

Social climber
Location: It's a MisterE
Nov 3, 2018 - 08:48pm PT
Because the path of happiness.

Because the alternative.

Because it is hard work, and work of the heart is work of self.

Because love is ultimately the best reward of life.
another nickname

Social climber
Yazoo Ms
Nov 3, 2018 - 09:16pm PT
Depending on definitions (unclear), "love" may be a prerequisite of "freedom."

That is, one hears that freedom is impossible without self-understanding, which is arguably impossible without self-acceptance, which is perhaps more-or-less same as the very old advise that "you've got to love yourself first" blah-blah-blah.

BITD, (discredited) existentialists would merely say (in a variant on self-acceptance) that one must "choose one's self."

Sinners all.
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Nov 3, 2018 - 09:56pm PT
Because love is ultimately the best reward of life.

Kinda what I meant. At the end of each day I sleep a lot better if I have shown kindness to others. Being kind exposes one to being taken advantage of. I've enough miles under my belt than to let that happen. Don't give money to beggars. Don't have a Utopian mindset; there are a lot of bad people out there.

Just my thinking the world spins better when people care about each other.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Nov 3, 2018 - 10:29pm PT
Just give some more because life ainít fair when you're looking for love.

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 3, 2018 - 10:36pm PT
Don't think about it, choose it, do it.
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Nov 4, 2018 - 05:48am PT
Well, I always found it was more fun
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 4, 2018 - 06:49am PT
I keep waiting for J Geils to have his say.
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Nov 4, 2018 - 08:41am PT
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Nov 4, 2018 - 08:56am PT
Love is not easy.

Broken heart
knowing I'm to blame.

Resisting lashing out.
Reflecting on what
I did wrong.

Do what I can
to make things right
and move on.

Love transcends through action.

Love is the essence
of humanity
to self and all
others.

Not instinctual but
learned and felt.
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