ANYONE HERE--ponds? DE'icer? best, safe, etc...?? HELP! :)

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neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 8, 2018 - 11:25pm PT
hey there say, ... this year, i am able to buy one...

my fish (goldfish) hiberate and have lived through the winter, on
occasions...

yet-- at least, three various times, they (in one pond, or the other)
have frozen SOLILD, and fish died...

:(


other times, wow! surprise and shock, in spring:
the fish LIVED and the pond was only frozen for the first foot, :)


this year, i am thinking to dry the de'icer, for an airhole spot...
as-- the pond bottom has accumulated 'pond ground' and may
not be as deep...
plus-- the prediction show a few weeks of 20 degrees, again, and
even 17, and 19, lows...

the years that the fish made it, well, there was 'a break in the low-stretch' and it must have kept it from solid-through-and-through freeze, at those times...


so, please, those that have gone through this:


please, WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND?
i am, and have been checking, on line, and, amazon, but,
reviews are hard to grasp:

good for bad, as you can't tell who are just 'picky' and who
really relate what has happened, in good manner...



thank you so very much...
hope to be back, soon later tonight, or tomorrow, too...
night now... for now...
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Oct 8, 2018 - 11:36pm PT
dig it deeper.
careful with deicer as it is typically a salt of some sort (usually a mixture of sodium, magnesium, potassium, and calcium chlorides) and you will be adding it at a time when there is not much water to dilute the salts.
my two cents
skywalker1

Trad climber
co
Oct 8, 2018 - 11:37pm PT
A bubbler of sorts? Just a little salt? Propylene glycol? I really have no idea just throwing it out there.

Good Luck!

S....
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Oct 8, 2018 - 11:48pm PT
neebee, is there much wind where you live, that could power windmill aeration? how deep is the pond that the fish are in?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 9, 2018 - 04:11am PT
https://www.todayshomeowner.com/how-to-keep-koi-fish-in-a-pond-during-freezing-weather/

Koi ponds are deeper than yours. You may need to excavate that bilge off the bottom, suck it out with a sump pump to get more depth without actually digging the very bottom up.

Didn't you mention you used an aeration pump at one time?
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Oct 9, 2018 - 08:11am PT
Get a cattle water tank heater
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 9, 2018 - 11:36am PT
Get a couple of these instead of the fish, 37 million years or so of resiliency baked in.


https://www.abc15.com/news/national/alligators-stick-snouts-through-ice-to-survive-freezing-conditions-swamp-park-says
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2018 - 07:44pm PT
hey there, say, guys... say, all...

just got online... got to run... i will be back in a few hours...

say:

oooops, sorry guys... i meant the kind of de'icer that you
PLUG IN and it floats on top of pond...


not sure, some folks say, it worked all winter...
others, say they rust :O

i sure do not want to electrocute fish, if it goes 'wrong' ???





yes-- mouse, i wondered about trying to pull stuff up from bottom of pond,
but-- it might mess up the clear water, on top and the eco sytem, :(


oh my, yeah... i should have dug it another foot deeper, :(


--and, kunlun_shun... yes, i did have and still do have a small
pump right now, to keep water moving...
however, once it freezes, i need to have it GONE ...

water needs to settle and it will keep about 40 degrees, UNDER
the ice...

well, if i do not freeze solid, :(


has been very good some years, but, now that i HAVE a chance to try,
i want to help the fish get through...

hate to lose them... they are nice goldfish...
:)


sad, when i lost the others (they, at that time, were had made it
about three years! ) :(




okay, will be back and see the link...
and check out more, what
everyone said...

got to get nextdoor now...


thanks guys...
any more thoughts, as to if my info, helped here or not?


edit:

ahhha, ha... oh my, fear-- just saw the link, :)

nawwwwww... i will stick with gold fish, .... ;)
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Oct 9, 2018 - 08:25pm PT
Maybe a submersible bucket heater?
$36

http://www.statelinetack.com/item/farm-innovators-1000w-submergible-bucket-heater/BEW02/?srccode=GPSLTB&msclkid=edd27dd2bcce131d4499266fccce93d9&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20-%20Custom%20Product%20Type%20-%20Non-Branded&utm_term=4584001415572001&utm_content=Shopping%20-%20Custom%20Product%20Type%20-%20Non-Branded&adlclid=ADL-fa76f45c-7ba4-42cf-b9a8-bf0ca1057ad3&kwid=bingproductads-adid^80401803306866-device^c-plaid^4584001415572001-sku^133696@ADL10BMC-adType^PLA

neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2018 - 09:59pm PT
hey there, say, Thocking... going to check that out now...


:)



edit: ooops, this would be too warm... only needed it, for a small hole...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 10, 2018 - 06:35pm PT
Wet suits for the Koi...
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
hey there say, xcon... awwwwww... yep, if mine had a 'secret channel' they might head south, :))

say, rottingjohnny... wish fish COULD just slip an extra coat on:
one that would heat the pond up enough, not to fully freeze, yet,
still not 'ruin their hibernation' :))


checking more options this eve, and, going to have to decide...
pond-sites, may have to help me make the final choice...

says they need to be set-in before frozen waters...

still open for info... :)
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Oct 10, 2018 - 08:00pm PT
Just how large is the pond? If you have a water pump you could possibly recirculate the water on a contniuous basis. We used to do that to keep clarifier's from freezing over.
T H

Boulder climber
ne'erdowell
Oct 10, 2018 - 11:52pm PT
silentone

Mountain climber
wisconsin
Oct 11, 2018 - 12:02am PT
Hey there say Neebs, I just run two pumps continuously that are placed near the bottom of the pond and in the center. The pumps just shoot the water about a 12 inches above the level of the water. This is enough to keep a hole that lets in air. If your pond is deep enough it wont freeze through. Sometimes you have to clear some ice! I live in the cold north and it gets down to -30 below zero. We have been doing this for years and never lost more than a couple of fish each year. Our pond is shaped like a figure eight so we cover up one half with a board and tarps and the snow covers and insulates it. How much water does your pond hold and what are the dimensions? I know you had a pond thread out here somewhere................
silentone
I will check back here if you have any more??????????
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2018 - 12:22am PT
hey there say, oooops, forgot... thank you hobo_dan... but, those, might be too big...


say, silentone... this sounds interesting...
not sure though, i think my pump would freeze, :( it is not very big...

but, say, here is pic of my pond, in case you did not find anything,
enough, on the other thread, with pond...
(maybe the 'what are you building thread? -- can't quite be sure) ...


here are some pics... just a sec...

it is figure 8... but, has ISLANDS in the middle...
it is about 20 feet long?

but, sadly, being in the city i was afraid to dig too deep...
*wish i had gone on more foot, :(

the '8' is about 1, or, 1 1/2, and even 2' wide, at points...
(through-out the eight) ...


might be about almost 2 feet deep, but not fully, in some spots???


can you figure out how much water is in it, this way???

i just stopped feeding the fish, today...
as, it is going to be 50's, with lo's of 40, this week, and
soon, even lo's of 38...

(might have a few high 50's during the day, but, from what i learned:
still need to stop feeding fish, so they can get ready to
hibernate... not have food in stomachs... etc...



okay, going for pic... be right back:


say, THIS was back when i was first making it...
it might help, more than the way it is now...???

just plastic...  for goldfish...
just plastic... for goldfish...
Credit: neebee


Credit: neebee


NOW THIS ONE... is in the back...
has made it through winter, barely, quite a few years, but:

once, has frozen solid... :(
last year-- lost all the 11 large goldfish...

before that, they always lived... however, one
year, it nearly was all frozen through, too...
lost fish, due to low water, after and a bird? seeing them,
before i could fix it...



back yard, smaller large bathtub size  ... not quite 2 feet, :&#40;
back yard, smaller large bathtub size ... not quite 2 feet, :(
Credit: neebee

would like to 'de ice' device this one, too...
they both have outdoor garden extension cords, to pumps, right now...



this one, well, it is just a basin hole...
only once, did the fish live, here...
there are only two fish, this year...

Credit: neebee
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2018 - 12:55am PT
hey there, say, silentone... what hurt the SMALLER backyard pond, last year, i think, was:

it was 20dg for about a week straight, in the mornings...
and about, hmmm, 40? for afternoons???
not sure, on that last number...


30, seemed to be okay... whewwww... very lucky we did not hit '0'
:O

so far, not been that low, since i been here (mich) ...
though, looking ahead, we have some predicted 17, and 19dgs, coming up...

in later winter... :(



also--
i have tried covering with plastic pool tops, (kids pools) and,
a board, before, and, the FIGURE 8 POND-- WELL, covered it with whatever i could come up with to keep leaves, off...
--old screen doors from thrift store...
--bamboo plastic-face, curtain things...
--and, even some lace old tableclothes... :O


though, i do not know if snow, on ice, would have been better?
as, the one in back, froze, anyway, all through...


the '8' did not... (or at least the two 'hole for hiding' spots, must not have...


just do not know how to insulate, for less ice???
does snow cover make better, or, worse???


thank you for any more info, from your pond experience, wow, :)


EDIT-- HAVE NOW DONE THIS, AS, WAS ABLE TO BUY SCREEN:
should this be taken down, by snow time??
is to keep 'tons' of oak leaves, out...


screen...
screen...
Credit: neebee


other side, screen...
other side, screen...
Credit: neebee
silentone

Mountain climber
wisconsin
Oct 11, 2018 - 02:23am PT
Neebs, oh my..... our pond is dug deep into the ground and the two pumps are fairly powerful.......about 800 gph and that is the key to it not freezing and yes the snow makes an excellent insulator. .........also sections of plastic pipe about 3 feet long and 6 inches tall can be submerged in water to make hiding places for fish. We also have a fake plastic hollow rock with a small entrance for the fish so they can hide from predators.....raccoons and birds try to get them.............with so few fish maybe you should just take them in for the winter????????? Also our pond is like the center of a figure eight so just like 2 circles connected with a channel between them so it is a large mass of water........thanks for posting the pictures now I have a pretty good idea of what you have and I think a small heater or two might also work for you but the water has to keep moving to some degree...........
Silentone
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2018 - 02:40am PT
hey there, say... just back to read what you posted...

i think, if i used the calculator right? i might have 1436.16 gallons?
and, the smaller one, perhaps 300 gallons?
in the smaller one...

does that seem right?


okay, going to read your post now...


edit:
okay, read it, now... say, i wonder, if some year, i should
take a change and make mine larger, :O


in the large '8' pond, i have 23 goldfish in it...

11 in the tub-shape...

and, 2-- in the tiny basin...

they have two spots, under some rocks, to hide in..
but, sadly, like i said-- not too deep...



hmmm, i think i found, what to use on the amazon, though...
next:

do you think i should take the SCREEN DOWN?
OR, CAN the snow still get through to insulate it??

does it NEED any wood, over, it, too???

thanks so much,
hee hee, wow, you are UP LATE, too...

:)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:41am PT
You mid-westerners and ponds...My uncle in NW Ohio had a big pond...High Dive and blue gill...We loved swimming in it except for getting nibbled on by the blue gill...He was feeding the blue gill one winter , fell thru the ice and drowned.....
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