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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:49pm PT
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Erik,
You are a criminal. Those are not your bolts to sell. That is theft from a national park of historic value. Should go to the park archives or museum collector, like Ken Y.
Contact those you've sold to, refund the money and return the bolts to the public. Those are not yours!
edit-I'l leave my statement stand but in fact I was crackin up when I said that
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:52pm PT
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Sloan, you sure are a piece of work.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 16, 2018 - 10:46pm PT
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Those are not your bolts to sell.
Why not?
It's just big wall trash.
We used to take those broken off and throw them in the dumpster.
Worthless junk if it's not holding you .......
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 17, 2018 - 05:43am PT
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I wonder if he has any old registers for sale
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Apr 17, 2018 - 06:48am PT
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Cool stuff. I hope they find a home. And I'm with Werner, its all trash and I'm glad he is selling it. It's totally his call and those who are hating on him are just hatin' for hatin's sake. If it was Honnold selling old historical mank found on routes I doubt anybody would have any beef.
I found an old poop tube on a ledge below Pine Line once. Any takers?
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Apr 17, 2018 - 06:52am PT
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We used to take those broken off and throw them in the dumpster.
I suppose but after 50 years doesn't junk become historical junk?
Robbins, Porter, Denny, Harding........
At $175 a pop they don't look destined for the dumpster.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 17, 2018 - 07:04am PT
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after 50 years doesn't junk become historical junk?
YES^^^
Totally unethical what he is doing with the older stuff- particularly the stuff put in by famous figures.
He's mining a NP for personal profit. Shame on Werner for condoning it.
They get their panties in a bunch if you move a broken piece of glass that is over 50 years at Facelift. It's a matter of retaining historic perspective. The over- 50-year stuff should be left in place even after the new bolt goes in IPMO... or if it gets removed... hand it over to Ken or the NPS.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 17, 2018 - 07:14am PT
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The crazy thing is that there are people who would actually shell out that kind of money for, as Werner says, junk.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 17, 2018 - 07:19am PT
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I never said I'm condoning it.
Don't put words where they are not.
I questioned, "why not?"
It is an observation.
It's big wall trash after being removed and replaced, put there by climbers.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 17, 2018 - 07:22am PT
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One mans junk is another mans trash.
Looks like he has sold some of them, potential buyers requesting provenance, Wooty's's word is not good enough?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 17, 2018 - 07:43am PT
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This is the only piece in this collection of old bolts that is super rare. Nose bolts are hard to come by, and this one, if not original, is pretty darn close. I replaced it at the base of the Great Roof pitch. Warren Harding, or one of his many partners, placed this bolt.
From the first post on MP. It seems to me that it is either original, or it is not. If not, then Harding didn't place it. Who's really to say?
This makes me regret not yanking the old spinner up on Castle Rock Spire as I climbed by it twirling in the wind, ding-a-ling-a-ling. One chance in five Steck placed it in 1950.
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:14am PT
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I just checked out Erik's post. Cool looking stuff. I had never seen any Robbins or Harding hangers that were homemade. Rare indeed!
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brotherbbock
climber
So-Cal
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:29am PT
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All I gotta say is.....
WOOT!
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:39am PT
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Oh well. I straightened my panties out.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:46am PT
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Interesting topic aside from the fact that many of you seem to really dislike Eric Sloan.
I feel strongly that since he did the work to remove them and that they were no longer functional in a safe manner and needed replacement, he is the owner and can sell them. But I really have no idea what I'm talking about....just a gut feeling and an opinion.
Did a little snooping on the interwebs.....
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/heritagebranch/heritage/ArchSignificance.pdf
Does anybody out there in Tacoland actually know much about the laws of the land regarding "relics" and the possession/ownership of what might be considered historical?
If you go metal detecting in Virginia and find some civil war buttons or bullets can you sell them? Is it truly finders keepers out there?
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:52am PT
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I still remember hauling from the belay right after the great roof, looking at some really old bolts flexing....Yikes! At that point, I would have paid $100 for someone to replace one of those bolts (if I had $100...).
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:52am PT
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As a somewhat minor part of my work I deal with the various cultural resources legal regimes:
Here are some basics as a starting point:
https://www.doi.gov/museum/laws-and-regulations
My advice on this matter would be that invoking federal cultural resource protection laws to protect rusty climbing mank and tat would cause far more harm and hassle in the long run for climbers.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:56am PT
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I thought national parks were about ‘take only pictures, leave only footprints’?
I guess there is a caveat; ‘unless yer entitled’.
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John M
climber
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Apr 17, 2018 - 09:04am PT
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Plenty of museums buy the artifacts they put on display. Perhaps if the community does value them, then they should think about joining together and buying a few of the more important pieces.
10 dollars each from the people just on supertopo would buy a few of them.
I am not condoning this. My own feelings are that they belong to history. But how many here have their own collections of artifacts? Some of which you paid good money for.
The fact that they came from public land perhaps has some merit. But I really wouldn't want to get the park service involved in this. It can get really weird when they do. Just settle it among yourselves. Can you imagine the park service having a say in what gets replaced on routes. Ugh..
Edit:
I thought national parks were about ‘take only pictures, leave only footprints’?
I guess there is a caveat; ‘unless yer entitled’.
So roger brown should just leave all of the manky bolts he has replaced over the years? I do get that pieces having important history should get some consideration. But what is that consideration? and who decides a piece has historical importance?
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