Balancing Public Land Use

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Messages 1 - 20 of total 52 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Longnut

Boulder climber
West side
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 3, 2018 - 07:04pm PT
Currently we can't feed our country's need for minerals:

https://www.americangeosciences.org/critical-issues/faq/which-mineral-commodities-used-united-states-need-be-imported


Rare Earth Metals Defict:

http://www.mining.com/us-remains-almost-entirely-dependent-china-rare-earths/


Should the US strive to be more self-sufficient regarding the resources we need before we close huge tracts of land to mining?


Should other countries rape their wildlands so we don't have to?










Longnut

Boulder climber
West side
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2018 - 07:58pm PT
"In 2016, the United States imported approximately 10.1 million barrels per day (MMb/d) of petroleum from about 70 countries. Petroleum includes crude oil, natural gas plant liquids, liquefied refinery gases, refined petroleum products such as gasoline and diesel fuel, and biofuels including ethanol and biodiesel. About 78% of gross petroleum imports were crude oil."

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6



xCon

Social climber
909
Jan 3, 2018 - 08:00pm PT
we gotta rape someone?!?!
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Jan 3, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
wrt to petroleum products, why would a business pay more for something it can get cheaper outside the country boundaries?

So until you internalize the external costs, the motivation doesn't exist to change consumption models.

Do you have a specific proposal for this?
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jan 3, 2018 - 08:07pm PT
Should the US strive to be more self-sufficient regarding the resources we need before we close huge tracts of land to mining?


Should other countries rape their wildlands so we don't have to?


No. Yes.

DMT
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Jan 3, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
First, any national population has to accept the cost of paying the freight. You have to pay the actual cost of goods and services readily available for production internally.

North America is awash in petroleum and hard minerals. To exploit these domestic resources would consume more treasure and land than importing cheaper resources from areas of the planet that require military adventure and lives lost accordingly.

moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Jan 3, 2018 - 08:20pm PT
Hey, at least our grandkids will have something to dig up.

Moose
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jan 3, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
we should start prioritizing experience over reproduction, start to learn to love the bomb, use a bit less Alumi foil for our veggies or base hits, buy only recycled metals engagements rings and stuff.

first (world) millenial probs.

I mean I drive to all those crags that are better than yours and I still want you to use less oil and rubber and plastic. Hm. mmm.


Back to the OP:
A pint of blood or a quart of oil?
A trip to the new boulderness
and yon Exfoliate,
that yon breastedness
she loves mine gold mines meaningless mines and others.
That phukking toyota and its joints and the dust. And those leasable minerals and sh#t.

The air is getting greasy m'friend
and the bolts are flying free off the Drillgun




I car, delivered myself of society on the long lone highway, and I found me. I am a petroleum man. Made those journeys on the organic remnants of older lifethings. The caffeine from a NJ pineapple-mango drankmix powder and its relevance, delivered from The Turnpike of the East. AHH, THE POWER!




Similarly, early times methyldiamphetamin-methylamphetamins made for No Regrets
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 3, 2018 - 08:40pm PT
I've thought about this much as Moose posts: Why use up what we have got, if others are willing to economically sell the same to us.

Think of petroleum. OPEC derived enormous power from controlling export.


Should we use up all that we have, and become totally dependent upon other countries? Or should we use up THEIR oil, and render them powerless. No one would give a damn about Saudi Arabia, if it were not for the oil......


WRT rare minerals: We can't mine what isn't there.....
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jan 3, 2018 - 08:57pm PT
Troll. Why is it in this age of Trump people feel the need to create false personas to spread misinformation about how great their dear leader is?
Longnut

Boulder climber
West side
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2018 - 09:12pm PT
WRT rare minerals: We can't mine what isn't there.....


"Geological Survey (USGS) released a study that found that the United States had 13 million metric tons of rare-earth elements"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_element






Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Jan 3, 2018 - 09:20pm PT
Ken, It's like the basics of exploitation are deja vu all over again.
Longnut

Boulder climber
West side
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2018 - 10:14pm PT
Is the experience of Bouldering at Joe's diminished by the presence of oil & gas wells?



Which causes more visible damage to Joe's landscape, the industrial infrastructure or the hordes of Boulderers?


Which is more detrimental to Joe's wildlife, the industrial infrastructure or the hordes of Boulderers?










Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 3, 2018 - 11:36pm PT
as long as it's cheap from somewhere else, why mine it here?

http://www.mining.com/mountain-pass-sells-20-5-million
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 3, 2018 - 11:47pm PT
In 2011, Yasuhiro Kato, a geologist at the University of Tokyo who led a study of Pacific Ocean seabed mud, published results indicating the mud could hold rich concentrations of rare-earth minerals. The deposits, studied at 78 sites, came from "[h]ot plumes from hydrothermal vents pull[ing] these materials out of seawater and deposit[ing] them on the seafloor, bit by bit, over tens of millions of years. One square patch of metal-rich mud 2.3 kilometers wide might contain enough rare earths to meet most of the global demand for a year, Japanese geologists report July 3 in Nature Geoscience." "I believe that rare[-]earth resources undersea are much more promising than on-land resources," said Kato. "[C]oncentrations of rare earths were comparable to those found in clays mined in China. Some deposits contained twice as much heavy rare earths such as dysprosium, a component of magnets in hybrid car motors."[13]

So explain why we should not advance this technology in searching for these things, than tearing up wilderness.

You wonder what would be the action proposed by the OP troll, if a large deposit of this was found in the center of, and underneath the Captain?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 3, 2018 - 11:49pm PT
Mountain Pass is an unincorporated community in San Bernardino County, California, United States. It is situated on Interstate 15 in the southeast mountainous desert region of the state approximately 15 miles (24 km) from the Nevada border at an elevation of 4,730 feet (1,440 m) - the highest point along I-15 between California and Nevada. It has a population of 30.[1][2]
The most prominent feature of the town, and its reason for existence, is the Mountain Pass rare earth mine, an open pit mine for rare earth elements. The mine and its associated processing facilities, which are owned by Molycorp Minerals, are currently undergoing expansion and modernization, and returned to production in 2013. In 2015, Molycorp declared bankruptcy and the mine closed its doors again.

the OP said:

Currently we can't feed our country's need for minerals:

Sure we can. We just don't want to pay for it.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jan 4, 2018 - 12:21am PT
"In 2016, the United States imported approximately 10.1 million barrels per day (MMb/d) of petroleum from about 70 countries. Petroleum includes crude oil, natural gas plant liquids, liquefied refinery gases, refined petroleum products such as gasoline and diesel fuel, and biofuels including ethanol and biodiesel. About 78% of gross petroleum imports were crude oil."

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6
Cool fact about oil imports in 2016. Here's another one.
"Net imports of petroleum averaged 4.9 MMb/d, the equivalent of 25% of total U.S. petroleum consumption in 2016, up slightly from 24% in 2015, which was the lowest level since 1970."

Gee I hope yer leader can turn this around for us.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 4, 2018 - 12:27am PT
So explain why we should not advance this technology in searching for these things, than tearing up wilderness.

Yeah, what could possibly go wrong with vacuuming vast tracts of deep seabeds which host ecologies we barely understand and currently have no clue about what their contribution is to the overall health of the oceans?

Credit: healyje

i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jan 4, 2018 - 12:30am PT
Should the US strive to be more self-sufficient regarding the resources we need before we close huge tracts of land to mining?

Should we strive to be more self sufficient? yes, to a degree. Should we rape our public lands. Absolutely not. Never.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jan 4, 2018 - 07:24am PT
Don't feed the troll.
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