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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Dec 17, 2017 - 08:11am PT
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Agree. Well written, and very personal. That took a lot to put out there.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2017 - 09:49am PT
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@xCon: Such a troll.
free pass tommy and her got on murder
So do you call, say, killing an intruder who seems to have every intention of killing you and/or your family "murder"? This was simple self-preservation. Oh brave one behind the screen, how would YOU have handled it? Remember, their captors had ALREADY EXECUTED SOMEONE during their captivity. Rodden et al. had every good reason to believe that would be their fate. Yeah, I give them one hell of a big pass. What they did took tremendous courage. Take a hike, punter.
BAd
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Dec 17, 2017 - 10:07am PT
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Parenting starts when you let those sprouts out from under your own shadow, and let them find themselves. Maybe their families support was mis-directed? to be/go pro, 1st, confidence and poise has to come from with-in - a place where doubt and control balance with confidence 1st?
but what do I know?
I'm crushed that the genetics were transferred to my children; both climbed the walls and rocks as kids. As the years have passed so has the love of climbing. May be getting it all, all to fast?
PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL, IT IS SAD THAT THE YOUNG MAN SURVIVED TO HAVE TO FACE THE MUSIC FROM HIS TRIBE,
BE GLAD, AND LIONIZE THE CHILDREN OF OUR TRIBE! aND BE PROUD, THAT WE HAVE HAS SUCH SOULS TO BOTH SURVIVE AND THRIVE. . .
GREAT CLIMBERS BOTH TOGETHER AND APART.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Dec 17, 2017 - 10:25am PT
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Wonderful piece. Working in the first person is tricky. Tends to be the me-myself-and I show and she did a nice job with it.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Dec 17, 2017 - 11:04am PT
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Very good article.
There was an article a few years back about how she took a lead fall, suffered a concussion, and was still suffering the effects months later. Did she make a full recovery?
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2017 - 03:58pm PT
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Of course she couldn't hit on everything, but I know, too, that she went through a pretty serious shoulder injury and surgery that took a lot of rehab. She's a resilient, tough woman. It's really cool to see that her life is working out.
BAd
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 17, 2017 - 04:34pm PT
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ive always thought that the free pass tommy and her got on murder at the time was telling
You think? That's a revelation.
So you think a person who is kidnapped at gunpoint has no right to escape, causing severe injury or death to the kidnapper in the process?
You DO NOT know what was intended. MAYBE kidnapping, was that what they told you when you interviewed them? Maybe kidnapping after rape? Maybe rape and dispose of the evidence? Who knows?
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Dec 17, 2017 - 05:09pm PT
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they were going to be ransomed. their captures had zero interest in any harm coming to them. fear of being murdered was unreasonable even for the kids they were at the time
Wow! This is a brand new psychological disorder. It’s like some kind of Pre-Stockholm Syndrome by proxy.
One can never know what a kidnaper will do, and even if the plan is to ransom the hostage, that could change to rape and/or murder as the circumstances change.
I think the hostage should work off of the assumption that the kidnaper will certainly murder him or her eventually. Then the hostage should decide if he or she would rather die or take the life of the kidnaper for a chance to survive.
Then if the hostage has the will and the opportunity, the hostage should try to escape, and if that requires injuring or killing the kidnaper, they should do so.
Excellent article by Beth Rodden.
edit
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 17, 2017 - 05:22pm PT
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Beth and Tommy two very fine human beings.
Thanks Beth ....
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katiebird
climber
yosemite
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Dec 17, 2017 - 05:29pm PT
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Bump for some excellent writing and exposing oneself with such honesty.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Dec 17, 2017 - 06:21pm PT
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It's funny. Maybe all of our most important climbing stories are really stories of growing up.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Dec 17, 2017 - 07:03pm PT
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Pushing the teen over the cliff was understandable given their fear and immaturity, but spinning it as a heroic coming of age adventure was not the best. Glad the guy survived..I,d love to hear his story
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Dec 17, 2017 - 08:02pm PT
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Wow! This is a brand new psychological disorder. It’s like some kind of Pre-Stockholm Syndrome by proxy
I was thinking the exact same thing... lol...
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Dec 17, 2017 - 08:14pm PT
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I thought that he was executed by the Kyrgyzstan government
I remember reading that somewhere too. All I can find in a search now is a story by Greg Child from 2003, that mentions meeting Ravshan Sharipov, the guy Tommy pushed off the cliff, in his cell in Bishkek where he was awaiting his death sentence:
https://www.outsideonline.com/1821591/back-edge
and from Greg Child's book about the incident: https://tinyurl.com/y7uq2m5b
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Dec 18, 2017 - 12:18pm PT
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If somebody has you at gunpoint and is ordering you around, and previously that kidnapper head shot another person in cold blood, you might not like killing the kidnapper, but he laid down the rules of engagement and only the person who does not value their own life simply lets the kidnapper has his own way, based on abstract principals.
Maybe "hero" does not apply to Tommy in this regards, though an argument could be made that "cowardice" or fear-frozen would apply to the person unable to act on their own behalf. The notion that you can reason with such a terrorist is probably just a notion. Why chance it.
I hope I'd have the sac to do what Tommy did, knowing I'd probably hate myself for doing so, but then, we'd all still be alive.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Dec 18, 2017 - 12:26pm PT
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Nice coming-of-age story in a context of climbing.
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Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
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Dec 18, 2017 - 12:29pm PT
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Glad the guy survived..I,d love to hear his story While you will never hear the IMU soldier telling "his" story, you can still hear another person's "his" story -- TC laid out the events in great details in his book, The Push. I don't think anyone has the right to pass judgement without having been through the ordeal themselves.
BTW, Beth Rodden's article was put out only weeks before the book came out. Both her article and his book exposed a lot of raw emotions, and I give kudos to both of them. I think readers ought to read both as well.
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