Accident in the Owen's Gorge yesterday

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

Post a Reply

Messages 1 - 20 of total 178 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 10, 2017 - 10:34am PT

Heard through the virtual grapevine that a woman hit the deck at the Great Wall of China. Lots of great help right there--including an ER doc. She was carried out by a great crew to the road where the ambulance was waiting. Once stable at the Bishop hospital, she was taken by helicopter to Reno. Let's send her some good energy and hope for the best. Be careful out there, folks. Sport climbing is dangerous, too. Word is that her helmet likely helped limit her injuries.

BAd

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2017 - 11:04am PT

Thanks for posting that, Cragman.

BAd

10b4me

Mountain climber

Retired

Dec 10, 2017 - 01:38pm PT

Thanks Dean, and thanks to Viren for the report. I hope the woman's outcome is positive.

phylp

Trad climber

Upland, CA

Dec 10, 2017 - 04:52pm PT

I really hate hearing about stuff like this.
I don't know the specifics of what happened here, but based on what I see both at climbing gyms and sport climbing areas, I surmise that a surprising number of climbers do not understand the simple math of (climber distance above last bolt) plus (belayer distance from cliff) plus (extra slack in rope) plus (rope stretch in a fall) plus ( climber pulling up rope to clip way overhead).

Virenal suggests " if you see something, say something", but sadly, observing people in potential groundfall situations is so common that I mostly feel like it's none of my business.

tom woods

Gym climber

Bishop, CA

Dec 10, 2017 - 05:31pm PT

If that's the climb I think it is, it's been an accident waiting to happen for years.

It's the four bolt, ledgy thing where you can ground fall from the third bolt right? Not a 5.8 for a 5.8 climber or a tired climber.

phylp

Trad climber

Upland, CA

Dec 10, 2017 - 09:02pm PT

Tom, no I think it's the next climb to the right. 7 bolts
But I personally think many sport routes have ground fall potential until you clip the third bolt, unless your belayer is belaying close to the wall, no slack.

Ezra Ellis

Trad climber

North wet, and Da souf

Dec 11, 2017 - 02:18pm PT

I’m hoping for a good outcome,
Best wishes to the climber involved.
Some really good advice above.

Majid_S

Mountain climber

Karkoekstan, Former USSR

Dec 12, 2017 - 06:24am PT

what went wrong during belay ?

Gunkie

Trad climber

Valles Marineris

Dec 12, 2017 - 06:53am PT

I had a satellite messenger that is checked out to me from Sierra Mountain Guides and I would never think about being down in the gorge on a guiding day without a sat phone or the Delorme In Reach. It would be considered negligent for me as a professional yet I typically don't throw it in my pack on personal "day cragging" missions. There is not the best view of the sky but you could probably get a message out .... I will start carrying a 2 way sattelite communication Device on my days off!!!

I had a Garmin Inreach Explorer and I used it to call for help when I came across an injured (broken leg) hiker who couldn't walk. This was pretty much no-cell phone territory and it was late in the day on a cold March Sunday afternoon. No one else was around. I was solo day hiking and this person was on a solo backpacking trip.

I was able to text with the dispatch and they found our location via the Garmin website. SRT team showed up at 9 pm, maybe four hours after making contact. Pretty impressive. That guy would have been out there at least one more night. It was freezing cold and he had a nice warm sleeping bag and loaned me an extra jacket while we waited.

Anyway, I lost the damn unit last month in a parking lot in Tuxedo NY. Reward if found. Definitely worth the money. Will buy another after Xmas, in case one magically appears in my stocking.

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2017 - 07:07am PT

What Phyl said X100. Gotta be on your game always but especially near the deck. And most climbers most of the time are doing single-pitch routes, so there's a lot of near-the-deck time to worry about. In fact, we recently purchased an Ohm belay assist for my wife. She weighs in about 100 lbs. while I'm over 180 with gear and all, so it's easy for me to get her airborne. This thing should really help keep both of us where we're supposed to be.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

BAd

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Dec 12, 2017 - 08:27am PT

what went wrong during belay ?

I do hope the injured climber makes a full recovery.

Do we have any information about just what type of a climbing accident this was?

Did a bolt pull?

Biner snap?

Knott failure?

Blow the clip?

all this secrecy, why?

inquiring minds want to know.

THX

S1W

climber

Dec 12, 2017 - 09:06am PT

It's been a few years, but I seem to recall that rig being a bit on the sketchy side for a 5.8 sport climb. A bit sandbagged, odd bolting, weird line, slick in places...

The climber/her belayer may not have done anything wrong and she simply may have fallen getting to the third bolt. I could see it happening on that route.

Aerili

climber

Project Y

Dec 12, 2017 - 09:46am PT

Yes, this. Definitely odd bolting. I think the 5.9 next to it is similar in difficulty but with better bolting.

henny

Social climber

The Past

Dec 12, 2017 - 09:50am PT

My understanding after talking to a couple of good climbers who were there is that the belayer was back from the wall plus had a loop of slack in the system. Sounds like the observations and math called out by phylp were likely contributing factors in reaching the ground.

The "easier" routes on the left of the China Wall are slick and kind of sporty bolting at their starts - as people have mentioned. Its not hard to envision potential for problems on those routes.

Attentive belays are perhaps even more important when the ground is proximate. I've blown clips and come off more than once (unfortunately) with maximum rope out while making clips. It can (and sometimes does) happen when you least want it to, nothing new there.

My lesson learned: a reminder that belaying is a dead serious job that requires one to be present and accounted for. Don't get lax just because you're experienced.

Good wishes for a quick recovery to the climber involved.

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Dec 12, 2017 - 10:45am PT

My understanding after talking to a couple of good climbers who were there is that the belayer was back from the wall plus had a loop of slack in the system.

That does seem to be what was pointed out in Viren's account as well.

Soft catch, brah - leave a generous loop of slack - it seems to be what is being taught in several gyms these days. I don't like it, and it's wrong.

A loop of slack is not at all what a soft catch is about. It's about managing slack and moving your body by hopping, stepping back, walking into, or whatever needs to be done depending on fall distance and weight differences between climber and belayer - to soften the impact while minimizing the fall distance, doesn't matter how far off the deck or overhung it is.

Holy cow - I think we can say for sure - this women so did not get a soft catch. What a scary injury, hope the best, sounds like she was lucky with her company and got a competent carry out.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Dec 12, 2017 - 11:14am PT

henny.... thank you very much for the reply.

root cause.... climber error and belayer error.

Those climbs my be ONLY 5.8 but I have always found them to be pretty serious because of the slick stone and poorly thought out bolting.

A good belayer is golden.

The old soft catch, one of the many misunderstood concepts, so common to today's newer "climber".

I hope the climber fully recovers, and thank you to all who assisted in the rescue.

And thank you to the DWP for being so understanding and not freaking out and shutting the place down.

henny

Social climber

The Past

Dec 12, 2017 - 11:15am PT

^^^^^ (JLP), yes. Agreed on what dynamics can/should factor into providing a "soft" catch.

Indoors/outdoors, who cares. Excess rope in the system is rarely a good thing. Between a hard/soft catch, a hard one is the obvious choice if it means not hitting something - especially the ground.

Rolfr

Sport climber

La Quinta and Penticton BC

Dec 12, 2017 - 04:35pm PT

First, I hope she makes a full recovery.

The "easier" routes on the left of the China Wall are slick and kind of sporty bolting at their starts - as people have mentioned. Its not hard to envision potential for problems on those routes.

Time to contact the first ascencionists and fix that problem, it obviously wasn't an issue when the route was new and crisp but the polish from decades of use needs to be addressed with some retro bolting.

We don't own the routes we build but have some responsibility for them, speaking only for myself, why wouldn't I want one of my routes to be safe and popular rather than a contributing factor to a ground fall. Hopefully we can avoid rehashing all the previous discussions on style, if the route was built top down there is little justification for poorly placed bolts.