OT: GOP tax plan calculator

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Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 6, 2017 - 05:00am PT
My taxes go up on day one and continue to rise for the next decade. Hope you fare better.

https://www.wsj.com/graphics/republican-tax-plan-calculator/

ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Dec 6, 2017 - 05:13am PT
Takes you to a subscription or login page for Wall Street Journal. After a few clicks to see if I could get around that process I quit. Got another calculator link?

Arne
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 05:22am PT
Sorry, I didn't realize this was a subscription page @ WSJ.com

This is a really good interactive calculator, too. It shows current tax law impacts versus the GOP tax plan impacts. I looked around and only found fill-in-the-blank kind of things which only calculate next year's tax liabilities.

EDIT: This one is OK:

http://tpc-election-calculator.urban.org/
Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Dec 6, 2017 - 05:44am PT
My taxes go down by over $3,000.

Just to be clear, I didn't vote for Trump, and I think the tax plan is a huge mistake. I don't need a tax break, but will enjoy another vacation I guess...
Jody

climber
Occupied Territory
Dec 6, 2017 - 07:13am PT
Roughster, then back up your talk with a little walk. Send in an extra $3000.
John M

climber
Dec 6, 2017 - 07:41am PT
Roughster, then back up your talk with a little walk. Send in an extra $3000.

For this to work it requires everyone working together. Thats why people don't follow your notion. Much like depending on churches to feed people, or house people, etc doesn't work. It requires everyone having a part in it for these kinds of things to work. Sure, churches feed and house some people. But "some" doesn't cut it. Government is about "we the people". Churches are "we the believers". There is a difference. This is not a bad difference. Just a difference. So no.. him sending in his tax break doesn't work. We either all pull together on the same plan, or not. He is saying this current tax plan isn't necessary for his income bracket. Why is that so hard to understand? Its doubtful that you are in his income bracket. So no.. your idea doesn't work. Its simplistic. Thats different form simple.
Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Dec 6, 2017 - 08:27am PT
Roughster, then back up your talk with a little walk. Send in an extra $3000.

That was per the posted calculator. Now in reality I still actually do expect my taxes to drop a smidgen, but not a ton. What I would be surprised is if either of those tax calculators accurately account for the inability to write off state and local income taxes and mortgage interest. Those two provisions right there impact pretty much every single person in California with a particularly hard hit to those with home(s) and an established career. They initially planned on eliminating your ability to claim property tax, but instead now allow a cap of $10K (at least the senate version).

When this goes into effect, and people like Jody see what it is going to do to their taxes, there is going to be some quick changes of heart.

I'll be fine, but this tax plan is going to put a huge chunk of the population even closer to zero safety net.
Gunkie

Trad climber
Valles Marineris
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 08:53am PT
What I would be surprised is if either of those tax calculators accurately account for the inability to write off state and local income taxes and mortgage interest.

The calculators seem to account for those items because there is input for those things. Whether or not these input parameters are just window dressing, I cannot answer as I did not build the calculator. However, these calculators do correlate based on my numbers.
Jody

climber
Occupied Territory
Dec 6, 2017 - 08:57am PT
I haven't itemized for years...since the mortgage interest I was paying dropped to such a low level that even when I factored in charitable contributions, etc. the standard deduction was more.

Jody

climber
Occupied Territory
Dec 6, 2017 - 08:59am PT
So, John M, there is no principle here...just big talk but nothing to back up the big talk except, "I am not going to do it unless everybody does it"...that is a cowardly position to take.
Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Dec 6, 2017 - 09:12am PT
Jody:

So, John M, there is no principle here...just big talk but nothing to back up the big talk except, "I am not going to do it unless everybody does it"...that is a cowardly position to take.

So you would propose I send an equivalent amount of tax savings I get to continue to fund further tax cuts for the ultra wealthy and mega corporations that need tax breaks even less than I do and that I don't support? I have ZERO confidence that it would be used to help the people who need it.

This is your logic?
Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Dec 6, 2017 - 09:14am PT
Gunkie:
The calculators seem to account for those items because there is input for those things. Whether or not these input parameters are just window dressing, I cannot answer as I did not build the calculator. However, these calculators do correlate based on my numbers.

I hope they are right, don't get me wrong! That would mean I will be pleasantly disappointing by either getting that full $3K or even more :)
John M

climber
Dec 6, 2017 - 09:45am PT
I am pointing out the futility of doing what you suggest. And as roughster points out, he would be enabling a program that he doesn't believe in. As for it being cowardly, its no more cowardly then a first responder knowing the futility of acting before there is enough support for an action for it to do any good. In other words wasted effort. As a first responder, if all that you had was a bottle of water at a car fire, would you throw that water on the fire knowing that it would do no good, or wait for an appropriate response.

I don't support people behaving foolishly for the sole purpose of "standing up for their belief".

xCon

Social climber
909
Dec 6, 2017 - 10:13am PT
Trump proposes massive one-time tax on the rich
By Phil Hirschkorn/CNN

November 9, 1999
Web posted at: 6:24 p.m. EST (2324 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Billionaire businessman Donald Trump has a plan to pay off the national debt, grant a middle class a tax cut, and keep Social Security afloat: tax rich people like himself.
Trump, a prospective candidate for the Reform Party presidential nomination, is proposing a one-time "net worth tax" on individuals and trusts worth $10 million or more.


 
By Trump's calculations, his proposed 14.25 percent levy on such net worth would raise $5.7 trillion and wipe out the debt in one full swoop.




http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/11/09/trump.rich/
locker

climber
Dec 6, 2017 - 10:44am PT


Nicely put...

"For this to work it requires everyone working together. Thats why people don't follow your notion. Much like depending on churches to feed people, or house people, etc doesn't work. It requires everyone having a part in it for these kinds of things to work. Sure, churches feed and house some people. But "some" doesn't cut it. Government is about "we the people". Churches are "we the believers". There is a difference. This is not a bad difference. Just a difference. So no.. him sending in his tax break doesn't work."...
Jody

climber
Occupied Territory
Dec 6, 2017 - 12:53pm PT

So you would propose I send an equivalent amount of tax savings I get to continue to fund further tax cuts for the ultra wealthy and mega corporations that need tax breaks even less than I do and that I don't support? I have ZERO confidence that it would be used to help the people who need it.

YOU are the one that said you don't NEED a tax cut.

Great, send in extra then.

I have ZERO confidence that it would be used to help the people who need it.

You just made a great argument for an even BIGGER tax cut. Thank you.
John M

climber
Dec 6, 2017 - 01:25pm PT
So then Jody your argument is that we should do away with all government, since there is no tax cut large enough. Come on Jody. Government in and of itself is not evil. The will of the people can be evil. The will of its leaders can be evil. But government itself is not evil. And the way to combat that evil isn't to simply starve it. If you look closely enough at evil, then you will find that if you use that tactic, and you don't have complete control over it, then it will find other ways to surface.

We both would likely agree that our military in and of itself is not evil, but I would certainly say that it has behaved in evil manners at times, and that the military industrial complex has too much power. So is the answer then to starve it to death? would that be your solution?

My argument is that though there is corruption, we still need government. Including in doing the good of educating our populace. Making certain our populace doesn't starve. And making certain it has housing. When I speak of these things I do not mean as some would imply, that I am for a communist society. I am not. Everyone who can work, should work. And they should be able to retain a majority of their efforts. But the government is there for a backstop. Which is why I am for feeding the poor through such programs as food stamps. I also believe that the government ts there to protect the rights of people. which is why I am for regulating the internet and not allowing large corporations to monopolize it.

Love your neighbor as yourself applies in how you treat government.

So what we need to do is help both parties find balance.

We don't need to spend more then the next 8 largest countries on our military to have an effective military. That is out of balance.

We also don't need to make certain everyone is wealthy or 100 percent safe. There has to be balance in both parties. Starving our government so that nothing can really be done is not an appropriate response. Its a fearful response. Its a response that says man will never learn.

Is there a lot of corruption now? Yep.. But I am not giving up on man because God won't give up on man. Never the less, we are in a time where man's actions are coming home to roust. Sometimes a parent has to do that with a child when that child is willful and refuses to learn. The parent has to let them reap the consequences of their actions.

I laugh heartily and with joy at women finally finding enough power to as a whole voice their objections to men abusing them. I believe that Trump played a part in that. His over the top ugly and biased attack of women while supporting abusers and being an abuser has helped tip the balance. So yes, good can come from evil. and also yes, Hillary's attack on women who were abused by Bill also helped tip the balance.

I eagerly await seeing what will come next. What corruption of the carnal mind will be exposed next.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 6, 2017 - 01:29pm PT
somebody check that boy for an allergy to logic
Jody

climber
Occupied Territory
Dec 6, 2017 - 02:51pm PT
Love your neighbor as yourself applies in how you treat government.

Oh, and the left is applying that to how they treat Trump? Don't make me laugh.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Dec 6, 2017 - 03:41pm PT
As typical,
any thread with Jody becomes infested with his lack of reason.
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