Camp 4 Expansion...input sought on Sept 28th in Camp 4

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Bargainhunter

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 27, 2017 - 02:06pm PT
Posted from Yosemite NPS:

Are you in Yosemite this week?
Yosemite National Park invites the public to participate in a walk-through of the planned Camp 4 expansion. The walk-through will outline the planned facilities, locations, and design concepts for the new space.

Join Yosemite's Project Manager at the Camp 4 kiosk this Thursday, Sept. 28th at 3:30pm for an on-site tour. Ask questions and learn opportunities to be involved moving forward.

Camp 4 is listed on the National Register of Historic Places for its nationally significant role in the development of rock climbing.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Sep 27, 2017 - 02:26pm PT
The key is to retain its primary use by climbers. If too many amenities are added, the risk is it becomes an overflow site for people who would otherwise want to stay in the more territorial bounded campsites in the valley. So keeping it communal with group sites seems key. as well as the walk-in booking system. Perhaps enlarge some sites so up to 8 could stay in each site. More movable picnic tables seems like it would useful, too. Get rid of those horrible concrete barriers and perhaps put in some nice benches to mark the borders when border delineation is necessary. Some landscape architecture, in other words.

A big improvement would be a place, perhaps off toward the boulders on the right as you walk into camp, where people could wait in line all night without being in the lights right next to the road, as waiting in line all night is often the only way to get a site in the busy times. Or perhaps a full time staffer to pass out numbers for the following day, with some numbers being assured a site, then a limited number of "wait list" numbers in case of no-shows (they do this in the morning sometimes, but then it still requires hours of waiting in line). Sometimes there are hundred people waiting, it seems, when it is clear that there will be no chance for the last 50 (who have to wait anyway, to be sure). There has got to be a better system for walk-in that doesn't require burning a day or even two of a climber's trip.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Sep 27, 2017 - 03:05pm PT
Seeing as how it's on the historic register, and when that was decided the intent as I understood it was to return it to its original character as much as possible, i want to remind climbers that in the early 70's the northern camp boundary used to be the horse trail, the western boundary was well past the shallow gully, the south boundary was the road, and the east boundary was about in line with the parking lot entrance.

After gaining Historic status they changed the name back to Camp Four from Sunnyside, why not the boundaries restored also?

As to those butt ugly cement logs - wouldn't small granite boulders be more aesthetic and appropriate?

I've noticed there's a good supply of them in the park...
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Sep 28, 2017 - 12:50am PT
Good words, Kevin. Definitely room for a few more sites to the north without interfering with the bouldering circuit, but I think the western boundary is now off limits as it is a traditional area.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Sep 28, 2017 - 12:49pm PT
Classic how the Camp Four sucks rant thread has over a hundred posts of mostly griping, and this one announcing a chance to suggest improvements and encouraging direct input is apparently all but ignored.

I would suggest that the flats around the parking lot and up to the trail would be good site potential, leaving a Korridor (😃) out of bounds around the Falls Trail. The NPS might like that for ease of supervision over the barbarians that inhabit the Camp. As far as boulders for the site boundaries go, if the NPS decided to do it, they could start piling material in advance of actual changes from whatever source inside the park, or even outside, somewhere near the lot, ready to be relocated by bobcat when the plan is enacted.



rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Sep 28, 2017 - 02:06pm PT
Good point.

It sucks how other people are always posting to say that it sucks how other people are always posting to say that it sucks.

But in the big picture, women suck more for it than men like me do, and other people suck more for it than I do. That's just the way I roll.

For me, I don't care. I'm not that attached to maintaining its historical setup, and I'm not so attached to my identity as a climber and my memories of camp 4 as a climber that I think it should be the way it used to be. But if that's the way you roll, cool.

Do what's best for humans now. Climber humans, hiker humans, tourist humans, whoever those humans might be. Heck, even women humans.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Sep 28, 2017 - 02:17pm PT
Why do I feel like I'm being stalked by a crazy person?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 28, 2017 - 02:38pm PT
Kevin, you walked into that one...so Camp 4.

But you are correct in asssesssing the weirdness of the juxtaposition of the two threads on our front page.
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Sep 28, 2017 - 05:35pm PT
My bad.

Kudos to you on the righteousness of sharing your thoughts about camp 4 modifications to a thread that's announcing a meeting where you can go to share your thoughts about camp 4 modifications. And for pointing out how other people suck for pointing out how other people suck. Aren't you great?

It's crazy of those other humans that they didn't use their time as wisely as you did. Maybe some of them even sucked so badly that they actually went to the meeting and shared their thoughts with Yosemite NPS.

But you be you.
WBraun

climber
Sep 28, 2017 - 05:43pm PT
Maybe some of them even went to the meeting.

What's wrong with you?

The meeting is tonight and maybe YOU should go instead of constantly mumbling on the internet ...
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Sep 28, 2017 - 05:47pm PT
My bad. If he's your buddy he's my buddy too. MAGA!

The meeting that's announced as being at 3:30 today in this thread (that we're posting to at 5:50) is tonight?

Oh you know how those stoopid humans are. They get all these crazy ideas that a meeting announced as 3:30 is at 3:30, and that other people suck for doing the same things that they do.

But what're ya gonna do? Post about it to the internet, or something? Stoopid humans. They suck.

I do appreciate that all you awesome humans are just awesome perceivers of the truth.

But are we, really?

From where I sit, it doesn't seem like we're quite as awesome as we tell ourselves we are, or that other people are quite as stoopid as we tell ourselves they are.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Sep 28, 2017 - 07:36pm PT
Man ove rbord
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Sep 28, 2017 - 07:54pm PT
^^^
LOL
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
Sep 28, 2017 - 10:37pm PT
Hell, I feel bad for bumping the thread. I personally don't want to see it change. Just thought there was interesting conversations in there. I love that place, as much as an ectended period of time in there can where on you.
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Sep 29, 2017 - 05:37pm PT
Whats wrong with you?

It's a good question. It's a question I ask myself. Sure, I'd appreciate your help with it.

From your deep first hand experience of being a human, and understanding of the human condition, what's wrong with me?

How are your kids, that you love more than yourself, doing? How are your transracially adopted kids doing? How are your mentally ill kids doing? How are you doing?

Please do share with me, from your deep first hand experience of other people being stoopid humans, what's wrong with me.

I like what I see of you. You be you. You be a stoooid human, the way that you're a stoopid human. I don't have a problem with that.

But maybe there are other ways of being a stoopid human than just the ones you approve of.
c wilmot

climber
Sep 29, 2017 - 05:47pm PT


As to those butt ugly cement logs - wouldn't small granite boulders be more aesthetic and appropriate?

Yes.

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Sep 29, 2017 - 06:14pm PT
I mentioned elsewhere that boulders could likely be harvested from the rockfall site, right down the street from Camp. Then the barriers would have a story, just for soul's sake

Some big wood Slab benches milled from Yosemite trees on the dividing lines along with the rocks would be nice

This is Yosemite National Park, after all, here for all Americans for eternity

Unless it keeps falling apart like this

ron gomez

Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
Sep 29, 2017 - 06:34pm PT
Good input by Kevin and John. Hope it doesn't get "modernized" as it is a historical place. Noted how much work already being done in the parking area and I hope the grand plan isn't already in work with "input" only a part of the formal plan. Werner, perhaps you might have a bit more insight? Haven't stayed in years, but last time was there with The Bird and he got booted from the SAR site when we went to check it out, that was a bummer. Camp 4 was always a great place to be, hope it returns to it's former feel.
Peace
Credit: ron gomez

Rbord, is boring
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 30, 2017 - 03:36pm PT
Double the number of campsites expanding down Valley and add a second bathroom building with better utility sinks.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 30, 2017 - 03:49pm PT
Or take out the lodge and put it there😎😎
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