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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 7, 2017 - 09:21am PT
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a few years ago, a number of circumstances conspired to shut down my climbing for many months, two incidents demonstrated to me the fiction of "safe, accident free" climbing, and the third my responsibility to be available to help a loved one through a difficult medical procedure.
with no outdoor climbing possible, I decided to try some training, it was something I had done only sporadically in the past, and it seemed a good time to try it again to stay in some shape for an eventual return to climbing.
looking around the internet I was inspired by an image of Katie Lambert working out on a hangboard during her recovery from a scary accident. Looking around a bit more, I found the Rock Climber's Training Manual seemed to have a good training plan, and incorporated hangboard routines as a central aspect of strength training.
so I had a start.
in the past, getting injured during training eventually convinced me that training was bad. But of course I was bad at training, if you train properly you don't injure yourself, so learning how to train was just crucial if this was going to work.
the RCTM plan is periodic, and each cycle you go through the exercise of planning your training goals, so for the first cycle my goal was to learn how to do all the phases without hurting myself.
sticking to the routine I had noticed very large gains in strength most evident in forearm, and in endurance. By the end of the third period my gym grade had improved a full number grade, from light 5.10s to light 5.11s which seemed amazing to me. One period's goal was to climb a gym 5.12, which didn't happen but certainly progress in that direction was made.
this also translated to outdoors in many ways, but my lack of time out doors, and the circumstances that led to the hiatus, and to training, were perhaps more limiting...
but what was more interesting was the training I had done so far pointed to the training I could do to get better.
What sacrifice?
1) training with counter weights, and "promoting" by reducing weight as you achieve workout goals highlighted the importance of body weight to climbing. the difference of 5 pounds on the hangboard routine was directly correlated to performance in the gym. I had concluded that in order to achieve that 5.12 gym goal I would probably need to be down 10 to 15 lbs from my normal weight.
since my "normal" weight seemed to be something of a body set point for me, it requires a tremendous focus to limit eating to loose the weight.
2) the workouts are intense, for instance, on the hangboard I aim to be completely pumped by the end of the session, a pump that persists for some time. letting the body rest and recoup is an essential part of the training, it is the adaptation time.
so getting a good night's sleep is an essential component to the regime. many of you know I am a "night owl" (have been from childhood) so loosing my quiet time is a sacrifice.
Shannon Sharpe mentioned this on some internet show, about making the sacrifice to "work out" using the example of "going to bed at 11pm instead of partying to 2am." This hit home to me, though I don't party that much...
3) you have to make time to train, which usually means you're not doing something else... given the habit of your routine, it seems that training is always the "least interesting" thing to do, it is hard, to do it right pushes you physically, but the presence you have to bring to it (training is not mindless!) does crowd out other things you'd like to be doing
tending to your body is important, hangboarding can trash your fingers and hands so you have to do maintenance... I find dealing with sore muscles to be important in between,
and then there is climbing to do, which after all is the point of training.
But travel and other aspects of work and life intervene to, so you have to be willing to prioritize training.
4) eating is an important aspect, as the nutritional aspects fuel your gains... but we have all sorts of strange eating behavior, and lots of that not only affects our training directly, but indirectly too.
for me, having even one beer completely changes my quality of sleep, and my mental aspect the next morning, and mornings is usually when I train. So I have to plan my single-beer-at-night around my training plan. Sounds strange, but it does matter to me and my progress...
it's a sacrifice, maybe a small one in my case, but definitely a noticeable constraint...
5) the single focus of training goals can be interpreted as withdrawing from your normal social circle... perhaps this is one reason why young people can achieve such amazing athletic goals, they have a limited social network. As you get older that network grows, and is an important aspect of your life, it is harder to make the choice to train "for yourself" then to interact with your friends. And then there is work... for me this ebbs and flows as an obsession, as things become interesting, and then not.
anyway, training seems to reward the trainee with the desired increased performance, but those gains are not "for free" you have to change your life in order to commit to the training.
I don't have the ability to "just climb" all the time to get better, training is one thing I can do to help that happen.
It would be interesting to hear some of the collective's experience regarding training and sacrifices made to achieve those training goals.
Thanks to Allyson, Linda, Will S., Bela and all for many conversations about training...
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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I have been thinking about this lately as I am just over 8 weeks post-op from open heart surgery. I am motivated more than ever to start training hard for this summer's climbing endeavors.
My social life was the big question as well, but many of my good friends also climb at our local climbing gym. So that's not a big deal. I'm done with school now, which frees up a lot more time as well as less stress.
For me, I have to stay active to stay healthy for the sake of my heart. So, I would be willing to make greater sacrifices for fitness, relatively speaking.
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Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
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A thoughtful post as always Ed.
I've thought a lot about this as well. I fully recognize that if my goal were only improving my climbing fitness and skill, my time in the gym would be better spent doing a more formal, periodic training regime. I know several really good climbers who spend months in the winter doing only weights and system board work. My friend Jed spends Saturday on his hangboard.
What sacrifice am I willing to make?
I've found that as I've gotten older my social life as become more limited, not more connected. I have a full-time job. So I also place a priority on having fun, with friends on my free time. What's fun? Probably different for different people. For me, projecting hard sport routes in the gym is fun. I like to pick grades that take me about 2-3 weeks of work. I like the process of memorizing the route, friending the falls, figuring out the clips. It's totally joyous for me.
But I'm also willing to make concessions. I lift weights one day a week, run/ski/cycle a couple days a week. Do yoga regularly. But probably the closest I come to "training" is to make one of my 2-3 gym days a week in the winter a bouldering day. I've always had endurance but power not so much. It's humbling. Little kids do V7. I work on V5. I'm not that good at it. But it does help me increase contact strength and learn to be able to do harder moves. And it still fills my need for social interaction.
I tried doing the hangboard thing a few years ago and found it the most mind-numbingly boring thing I've ever done. It's like listening to the Trump supporters on Supertopo. I just can't do it. So I "sacrifice" and put my ego aside and go bouldering.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Interesting thread, Ed. For me, sixty three years ago, gymnastics and bodyweight exercises - what I viewed as "training" for climbing - took on a life of their own. Now, at eighty, and having quit climbing for several reasons a few years ago, I still very much enjoy the "training" (although modern climbers would not call it that).
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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not to be facetious but it is presently and painfully apparent I have sacrificed my future bone, joint, connective tissue and digestive health.
Edit: albeit bulk of damage being from Martial Arts Training
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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I did a little bit of weights and hang board but I generally found the climbing gym is a better workout for sport climbing not to mention a lot more fun.
My back and knees didn't like jogging.
The mind numbing training I used to do was hours and hours of time walking on a steep treadmill with a heavy pack in winter so I could do long days as soon as the weather changed.
When I was younger and healthier I liked the rowing machine.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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My approach to health in recent years is largely a self-experimenting (biohacking) one. N=1.
Since general health could be said to underlie relative success in physical pursuits I put this forward as a primary goal and then extend my hacks and imagination to that of specific targeted training in due course.
I am in somewhat of a hurry so I don't have the time to provide a wealth of links.
since my "normal" weight seemed to be something of a body set point for me, it requires a tremendous focus to limit eating to loose the weight.
Engage in gradual sun exposure during the morning am hours. No shades, no sunscreen. Start at 10-15 minutes and work up to 45min. to 1 hour over several weeks, or possibly several months-- especially if you are very light-skinned or reside at higher altitudes.
When I started this hack I weighed 192 lbs.
Today I weigh 158lbs.
so getting a good night's sleep is an essential component to the regime. many of you know I am a "night owl" (have been from childhood) so loosing my quiet time is a sacrifice.
Exposure to artificial lighting from screens and bulbs leads to mitochondrial dysfunction and inefficiency. Circadian disruption likewise. The most benign result of night owlery for most people will be a persistent weight management problem.
Do not eat 4-5 hours before sleep. If you do the food will "light-up" your intestinal biome and interfere with autophagic/ubiquitination processes and impede your body's recuperative programs. For example, one such process involves the ferrying of sulphates by melatonin from the gut to the brain to "clear the deck" for sleep. This is done to maximize autophagic processes in the brain by using the sulphates to cool down the mitochondrial environment so that repair and recuperation can proceed more efficiently.
Oops gotta go. (Gotta train)
More on this later.
I almost forgot. As regards food eatin' no one says it better than neurosurgeon and champion bio hacker (lol) Dr. Jack Kruse:
The Leptin Rx advocated timing with respect to the sun now you can see the literature is catching up to my 12 year old advice now. Once reset on The Leptin Rx, what should I consider doing?
Plan on eating a straight forward seasonal template of food made naturally by the photosynthetic webs and not man made machines. If you want to improve performance or longevity I would tell you adding more seafood to that template is a smart move. If you are active, you can add carbohydrates from 10% to 20-30% of your diet within the proper long light seasons. The diet is still a high fat moderate protein paleo template outlined in my book, The Epi-Paleo Rx, The diet should be seasonal tied to you latitude altitude and to the population density and technology use in your local zip code.
Upon rising within one hour eat 50% of your daily carbs with 25 grams of protein and 20-30 grams of fats.
Never miss breakfast because eating it stimulates the circadian rhythms in the brain retina and gut for gastric acid secretion in adults. Breakfast should be the largest meal of the day while sunlight is out and you should make dinner a tapas like meal before the sun sets. The key is eating when the sun is out and fasting when the sun is absent to retrain your mitochondria and shrink the respiratory proteins in the inner mitochondrial membrane to allow for autophagy which will replace poorly functioning engine in your cells. This will become critical later in the day for body composition optimization. Many will naturally begin to only eat one meal because your redox potential rises. This becomes most easy with a chronic connection to the solar cycles and grounding in your local environment.
Avoid working out prior to breakfast. It is a circadian cycle breaker because it raises cortisol at a time it is already high. Working out is optimized 3-5 PM based upon the circadian cycles for protein synthesis in diurnal animals.
For Optimal results you must get most of your daily activity between 9AM and 4PM when light cycles are strong year round. This is another reason I strongly advocate high vitamin D levels year round. The higher your redox potential the less you will rely on Vitamin D3. We evolved around the equator and equatorial sun has been shown to keep human vitamin D levels 50-150 ng/mL. Avoid sitting at all costs and consider walking to get lunch or a short run during your mid day break. The real goal here is to increase Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis (NEAT) during strong light hours. This will help shrink the distances between your respiratory proteins to make electron/proton tunneling more efficient. This has major effects when it is done consistently over time for reversal of disease by improving mitochondrial function and improving CO2 production in mitochondria and decreasing H20 production by mitochondria from oxidative phosphorylation. For example, I run upstairs and avoid elevators and I park far away from my destinations to increase my NEAT daily. I also carry all my groceries out to the car and never use a shopping cart to make it easier. I look at every aspect of my actions to make sure I am maximizing it for NEAT. NEAT is a cheap form of exercise for us all.
For lunch, if you need to eat it, (some won't eventually) you should consider eating 25% of remaining daily carbs. I use this meal as a snack now. Rarely is it a big meal for me any longer and if I am IFing this is the one meal I cut like a bad habit.
Critical point: The best time to work out biologically occurs when it is least likely to be convenient for you because of our neolithic lives won't allow it. I re-tooled my entire schedule as a surgeon to make this work optimally for me to lose weight and change my body. It is that important biologically to get to optimal. 1-5 PM is the ideal workout window. For best results, try to do the exercise in bright sunlight.
Dinner should be eaten within 45 minutes to 1 hour of this late afternoon work out while the sun is out. This will vary due to your latitude greatly. During dinner you want to make sure to include a lot of protein (25-75 grams), the remainder of your carb allotment and the balance in fats. The type of fats at dinner are also critical. Try to concentrate on 10-18 carbon fats because these are best at stimulating Cholecystokinin (CCK) that destroys the night time appetite. I use coconut oil, ghee, pastured butter, and bacon lard to get this effect in different seasons. I use the fat to cover the carbs and the protein most times in sauces.
Try to complete dinner by 7 PM. This is critical in autumn and winter time to get to optimal results. 8PM is the outer limit for dinner in spring and summer. I actually alter my meal times very precisely as the light cycle changes during the year. Many people might find this too regimented. I agree with this but I do it because I had a huge clinical move to make from 44% body fat. Doing this strictly my first year I lost 133 pounds in 11 months. So the details make a huge difference in good vs. Optimal.
Sleep by 11PM in spring and summer months. I stay up longer June 10th to July 10th due to summer solstice on June 21. During this time of the year I tend to have higher body fat with longer light cycles. In autumn and winter I am in bed by 10 PM. I am in bed earlier when the clocks are set back on hour in fall and heading toward the winter solstice on Dec 21st. I have found I am leanest during this time of the year. The goal of sleep in any day of the year is an optimal 7.5- 8 hours of sleep a night no matter the season. You will know when you are doing well because you will no longer need an alarm clock and your sleep wake cycle will be automatic. I found after one year of using this protocol I no longer needed an alarm clock. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3756673/
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apparently I'm not willing to sacrifice anything for it! I climb when I want to, and plan as many adventures as I can which is pretty little these days between family and work and music.
That said, I experience a lot of inertia. I'm pretty active and motivated when I'm out doing stuff, but I have a hard time getting off my butt when I am comfortable at home. I manage frequent Supertopo breaks between bouts of work productivity.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Bruce Lee keeps popping into my mind.
I'm grokking jgill, but I'll have to come back to this one.
Oh yeah Bachar too.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Good thread Ed.
I agree with Ward wholeheartedly!
I'd like to add, that after about 30 the body starts being less efficient. The digestive losses 10% ability about every 10yrz. So ass one gets older, one really needs to eat more to keep with the amount of nutrients absorbed. The same degenerization happens to muscles, pumping weights is the easiest way to rectify from turning into a marshmallow. Soft, declining muscles allows the skeletal to become misaligned causing all kinds of problems. Stretching(yoga) should be incorporated within the weight training. I like to do it after, when I'm warmed up. Always first thing is warmup! Run, jumping jacks, squat jumps, 8ct body builders, etc. And stay warmed throughout. I try to think of it all as a warmup. A warmup for climbing;)
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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I'll give up my Bengay when you pry it fr ...
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TheSoloClimber
Trad climber
Vancouver
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I first started training for climbing two years ago. I'm not too sure of the reason why I started... most likely because I didn't want to make the trek to the climbing gym. I got really into it, researching online how to actually use a hangboard (I thought you just did pull-ups) and how I could train endurance at home, etc.
In 4 months, I went from being unable to hang on any of the edges on my board, and using only slopers and jugs, to hanging on the 18 mm edge open handed with an added 30 pounds.
In the spring, I flashed a V3 which I couldn't even imagine holding onto before, and sent my first .12a in two tries. That was after a winter of training 3-4 times a week, and maybe climbing once inside.
Once you realize the gains you can make, it's a lot easier to suck it up and spend a bit of time on the hangboard a couple times a week. I've essentially doubled what I was able to do since I first started. I can even boulder outside a bit now hahaha.
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jstan
climber
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It is always tempting to think one's conditioning program should be used by others. But different people have different limitations. I started cardiovascular training for snowshoeing in the Daks at 23. I did this three years before getting into climbing. Frankly I don't know why I singled out my cardio system. Then in my 70's my heart surgeon told me the vessels in my circulatory system were small in diameter. Now I know why. Spirometry tests made at age 50, some 15 years after ceasing to climb, indicated my lungs were still performing exceptionally well. Interval training is a winner.
The body develops capabilities it decides are needed for survival, seemed to me. If so, doing something all of the time beats occasional workouts. So I did fingertip traverses and chin ups on door jams at work every hour on the hour - every day. Each session I also smashed my finger tips against a concrete wall so as to build up thick calluses. Raised my climbing a full grade.
Pacing yourself as you get older is really important. Tearing one's elbows apart in a workout seems a poor plan. Makes sense to do what is needed to allow one to walk comfortably without pain to the crematorium. That's a bit flowery, but you get my meaning.
It is always good to get ego under control. At Home Depot I was once tempted to offer to help a small overweight Latina load 90 pound sacks of cement. Then she began easily tossing them one after the other onto her cart. I have found being wrong takes no effort.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Nice thread Ed and psyched you are getting closer to 5.12. Climbing is a lifestyle, yet I think it says something about the individual's commitment to it when he/she puts time and energy into improving their skills.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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ive found i train more to recover better, so the actual training can happen at a more meaningful level - ie coaxing my system in the direction i want it to go.
as i have family, work etc like most real humans it means getting up at 0430, so to get enough sleep i augment the nights sleep with deep naps.
so long as its quality food i find amount harder than anything else. when it becomes about that, usually due to cardio stuff, excess carbohydrates arent an issue.
agree eating in relation to sleep matters a lot simply because it has real effect on recovery.
i train functional capacity, actual ability and fine motor stuff, blended in various ways.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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for me, having even one beer completely changes my quality of sleep, and my mental aspect the next morning,
This is very interesting. I have recently found the same thing. I've always enjoyed beer and never had any problems with a couple beers on a pizza night or a BBQ etc. in terms of how I felt the next morning. But in the last six months I've definitely noticed a qualitative difference...especially if I just grabbed a single beer...I was thinking "one beer can't be having this effect". Not that I was getting a buzz from one beer, but the next morning just not feeling "right" and restless leg syndrome when trying to get to sleep. I didn't think it could be attritubted to a single beer but my anecdotal experience(s) from one beer and your reaction seem to confirm that even a single beer is affecting me. Dang.
Susan
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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I have found that now any of the fermented swill leaves me feeling more ill.
In the morning, I've got a headache? I don't get headaches!
a tea totler, my wife thinks that it is some added thing to 'balance' the bottling?
An added substance that changes how the body absorbs the alcohol?
I'm up at 3am, often, I found that even a beer with dinner at 7pm has a negative effect.
So I've been mostly dry for 6+ months.
The gym and I ?
Yikes!
I find that the isolation of movement that the machines achieve,Cause some repetitive motion injuries, Repetitively.
I saught out a trainer to set my from right. The results have reduced some of the strains .
Free weights of various types serve to remind me of the things that need surgical attention!
I do a lot of low weight reps and find the movement more important than the number of lbs moved.
As for progress? Not sure how to judge the weight comes and goes,
as does the snow - Good-bye snow - hello outdoors training - walking -
In small rock heaven - throwing down on my stones.
I hope this year will be no different, if the sun is shinning -
I'd rather be climbing.
But walking is how I've started every season.
As I said I did join and start to train in a gym.
There is no plastic pulling place, anywhere near my space,
The gym I joined would have made a great indoor/outdoor climbing center.
I was there when the Boarders Books failed and looked into gym franchise ownership.
It seemed like a glorified janitorial position!
I kept the opportunity to myself. The Borders Books became the gym I joined.
there is bouldering in walking distance, & in the parking lot,
so I'm more likely to keep going three days a week.
Butter( can't quit the carbs!?)
Home made:
Beer
ice cream
Cookies
Brownies( I cheat )
Mac n' Cheese.
Mashed Patatoes
Pizza','
Cheese( even on salad )
Cream/milk
Granola
Beef
Never did junk food or soda
But I crave for a real 'burger
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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likely every positive plan fosters some positive illusions
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Yeah Moose, on the job training is thr way ti go. Just back from P.....perfect weather in IC, heading there tomorrow.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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I exercise because without it I'd be a depressed heap of quivering man jello. I feel this way more and more. I don't think it's a function of age but just, as my life has gotten really busy with a career, marriage and three grade school kids, I've found as I have less time to exercise than in my former life, the importance of a good, stiff workout is noticeable when I can only squeak one in one or two days a week. When I was young and unburdened, I got out often, so I didn't notice the absence as much. But now my piece of mind depends on a nice long mt. bike ride or (preferably outdoor) bouldering session. I'm a much better husband and father when I can do that for myself.
BTW, I've noticed alcohol having a negative effect on sleep as well. That and reducing the amount of caffeine, even much earlier in the day, seem to make a difference. Just last night I abstained after several nights of unpleasant 3:45 a.m. wakeups and I blissfully slept until my alarm went off at 6:30 a.m.
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