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Jim Lawyer
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 24, 2017 - 02:05pm PT
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I've been given some old pitons, and I'm trying to identify them. They were carefully painted and preserved, so some of the markings are not visible. I don't believe any of these have ever been placed.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Jim
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jan 24, 2017 - 02:13pm PT
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The two lower right could be Fritsch. The orange/red ones could be Camp Interalp and the upper right ones could be Salewa.
This is just a guess.
The other ones - I will not even guess.
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Jim Lawyer
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 24, 2017 - 02:18pm PT
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The orange ones, if I look very carefully, have "CAMP 3" stamped into them. Do these still sound like "Interalps"?
The other pitons have no discernible markings.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jan 24, 2017 - 02:20pm PT
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I do not now enough to know if CAMP used the name Interalp about these pitons when they did not carry the name Interalp.
The possible Fritsch pitons could have a name under the painting. The name is possibly not seen through the paint, but could be across the piton in the area just below the head where the blade starts.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 24, 2017 - 02:34pm PT
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I recall some expert on ST, likely Marty, giving a full CAMP INTERALP explanation.
Since Chouinard axes from the 1970's are marked CAMP INTERALP & MADE IN ITALY PREMANA on one side of their picks, I always assumed CAMP & INTERALP were the same company.
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Jim Lawyer
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 24, 2017 - 02:39pm PT
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I have some hexes stamped with both CAMP and Chouinard logos. Was there a collaboration between those companies BITD?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Jan 24, 2017 - 02:56pm PT
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The rings on the left look like Army issue
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 24, 2017 - 03:16pm PT
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Jim- All of the black ones are likely military issue as those are the classic four designs in production since before WW II. Dates and maker are sometimes stamped in ink on the blades of the pitons but you won't be able to tell much since they have been painted over.
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TomKimbrough
Social climber
Salt Lake City
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Jan 24, 2017 - 05:06pm PT
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They all look like army issue pitons to me.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 24, 2017 - 05:23pm PT
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Jim. RE your question:
I have some hexes stamped with both CAMP and Chouinard logos. Was there a collaboration between those companies BITD?
I do claim to be a Chouinard gear trivia expert.
Camp Interalp made Chouinard's ice axes from 1969 to 1980. They also produced his Lost Arrow pitons from 1975 to 1989, when Chouinard Equipment declared voluntary bankruptcy. (those Lost Arrows are marked Italy).
I am not aware of any hexes that they made for Chouinard. Maybe, they made some in the 1980's for the Euro market, but it's news to me.
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Jim Lawyer
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 24, 2017 - 06:38pm PT
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Here's the hex I mentioned.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Jan 24, 2017 - 07:07pm PT
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Jim, did you steal that off of one of Poko routes? Fixed for decades? How bad could that be!?!?!
Fritz, the Camp stamps were sold in Europe.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 24, 2017 - 07:51pm PT
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Todd! Thanks for your info! It is much appreciated!
Fritz, the Camp stamps were sold in Europe.
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Ian Parsons
climber
UK, England
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Jan 25, 2017 - 06:56am PT
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My understanding of the CAMP/Interalp situation is that Interalp was a sort of marketing consortium of several European mountaineering gear manufacturers, of which CAMP was one. I think it probably started in the 1970s. That might be around the time that CAMP themselves appeared to aim for a higher brand profile. The Codega Family company was around for a long time before this, although the name itself was not particularly well known. Better known were some of their products; "Cassin" branded ice axes and pitons, for example, which carried Cassin's name but not - in the latter case, certainly - their own. I presume that a snappier company name was needed to go along with a higher profile - hence CAMP [Concezione Articoli Montagna Premana], which is fairly self-explanatory even if your Italian is getting rusty!
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Nick Danger
Ice climber
Arvada, CO
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Jan 25, 2017 - 07:27am PT
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The two angle pitons with rings on the far left look like old army pitons to me. We used to call them "army angles" when we used them in the Garden of the Gods in Colorado Springs back in the mid-1960's. I think (its been a long time now) that Stubai made pitons that looked exactly like your two orange pitons. Interestingly, back in the late '60's and through the '70's I would see rusty versions of all of these pitons welded into some crack as a fixed piece on a bunch of mountaineering routes around Colorado, such as on Crestone Needle and Peak, on Blanca Peak and Little Bear, and some of the higher 13,000 ft peaks in the Sneffels area of the San Juan Mtns. This leads me to agree with one of the other posters that many of them might be old army pitons as well.
Speaking of manky old fixed pro, I recall an old Stubai ice screw banged into a crack and further wedged in with two 10 penny nails and a black ballpoint pen at the crux moves on the north ridge of Montezuma in the Garden of the Gods in C. Springs. Never trusted that piece, but clipped into it every time anyway for "psychological protection".
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 25, 2017 - 07:28am PT
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Thanks Ian.
Interalp and Camp have not always been neatly connected as evidenced by the tags on the earliest Lowe Tricams. The first ones released have Lowe, Camp, Salewa and Interalp shown followed by the second generation which had Interalp crossed out. Maestro Pennequin pointed this out on a thread here and it provides an interesting case in point even though the circumstances behind the deletion aren't clear at this point. I'll have to ask Greg Lowe next time I see him.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jan 25, 2017 - 07:43am PT
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I'm also pretty certain that all the ' blacked' are US military issue. (The orange- European??)
We called the ring angles 'tent pegs'.
Johnnyrig, has a stash or he did, I've a few flat, or 'wafer pins' left too.Around '78-9 I bought out all that Bill's Army Navy, a store in NJ, had.
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Jim Lawyer
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2017 - 07:50am PT
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Jim, did you steal that off of one of Poko routes? Fixed for decades? How bad could that be!?!?!
Ha ha...nope. This was given to me by the widow of my [now deceased] climbing friend; he climbed from the 1960s through about 1990.
Although Poke-O is sure riddled with old mank!
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Ian Parsons
climber
UK, England
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Jan 25, 2017 - 07:53am PT
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Steve.
I would guess that, by the time of the second generation Tricams, CAMP was a big enough player in its own right to no longer benefit from being part of a group; and as - I presume - the actual manufacturer of Tricams, it was their name that stayed while Interalp's went. At some point thereafter Interalp disappeared. Do you happen to know when first and second generation Tricams were introduced? It might give a hint as to Interalp's approximate timespan. [Of course, an email to Stéphane would doubtless secure the answer if all else fails!]. At the time Salewa [in Munich] had sister/subsidiary companies in Austria, Italy and [I think] in either France or Switzerland - or maybe both; having them involved would have immediately given a huge boost to their marketing.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 25, 2017 - 09:37am PT
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Ian- Maestro Pennequin is more readily available than Greg Lowe so he would be your best bet as I don't have a good handle on the exact timeline for the exit of Interalp from the Tricam labels. I will see if I can find the thread where he mentions the labeling. I am being inaccurate by calling the label change a different "generation" of Tricams as that would imply some sort of actual design modification. The only design change that I can find is the move away from the heavily cavitated Tricam on a green sling to a less labor intensive drilled out version.
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