How universal is the need to be accepted/appreciated?

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NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 13, 2017 - 08:36am PT
I posted something about this in another thread, and I've been wondering how much of my own experiences and observations I have projected onto others. I'm coming at this more from a point of intellectual curiosity than seeking any personal reassurances here. But given my thesis, it can hardly be ignored that part of my motivation is acceptance. I'm trying to rise above that piece for the sake of the intellectual exploration though.

My world view, my map of reality that I use to help understand my own actions and those of people around me, has this assumption built into it. Asking this question here seems like a good way to explore how sound is this part of my reality model.

I've read about it elsewhere too (e.g. Maslow's hierarchy of needs) and just refreshed myself on this:
http://m.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

That body of work affirms the existence of the need to be accepted, and later research related to Maslow's hierarchy supports the idea that it's not so much a hierarchy as it is a collection of needs that we are compelled to meet. I still think there is some priority/hierarchy there, but it is not so clear as Maswel posited. We observe people making sacrifices of their "basic" needs, even up to the point of the need to live, in support of other needs related to supporting the well-being of loved ones: children, other family, fellow soldiers. Some people make sacrifices not for other individuals, but to uphold notions of patriotism or intellectual ideals. One might say the need to be part of the group that includes these other individuals can trump the need to be alive. But the deeper motivation of these actions might be tied up in self-identity and self-consistency, the deep selfish satisfaction one feels when acting in accordance with one's value system, and perhaps leaving a legacy. If one's values are shaped by a group in such a way that sacrifice is a key value, then acting for the good of the group ahead of the individual is really an expression of fulfilling the individual. I'm thinking out loud in this part, not really reciting any carefully pre-considered position.

This interpretation seems more universal to me, as it accounts for the plasticity of cultural and family values to shape individuals and the variety of their adopted value systems. I suspect that whatever sources most inform and populate our value system, these will be the sources from whom we most desire acceptance. It is the external affirmation and validation of us living in accordance with our values (whatever those might be) that we most crave. It ties in to the thread about free-soloing in a social context, but that is just one example of the more generalized concept I am trying to wrap my head around here.

I'm getting a late start on a longish drive, looking forward to reading later what others have to say.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jan 13, 2017 - 09:24am PT
this dude's hermitage in a boulderfield was less than 500' from a cabin, but he still managed 27 years with only one, trivial, human contact

Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
sawatch choss
Jan 13, 2017 - 09:38am PT
Maybe not 100% universal; that ^^ guy is clearly an outlier by anybody's standards. I imagine that the need for this exists on something like a bell curve, and most people are closer to the middle.

We profess admiration for people who defy social norms. Perhaps this is because we recognize how hard it is to put ourselves in deliberate conflict with the larger society. And even the most 'anti-social' subcultures (gutter punks, squatters, etc) have proportionally strict rules for inclusion in their own group. (Almost) nobody wants to be totally left out.

Speaking personally, I can say that I feel, and respond to, the need to be accepted/appreciated by groups with whom I identify and it has a strong influence on my behavior.
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Jan 13, 2017 - 10:37am PT
Humans have developed instinctual/evolved psychological "needs" for things that helped our evolutionary ancestors survive. I'm sure acceptance is one of them, probably because of the way that it promotes prosocial/tribal behavior.

We're adapted to get/satisfy those things for which we have an evolved psychological need, in the same way that we're adapted to getting the things we physically need, in ways like running after prey to catch a meal, or forming beliefs that help us gain acceptance.

Our physical health/survival is tied to satisfying those evolved psychological needs the same way it's tied to satisfying our physical needs, through our mind/body connection, where eg depression or isolation is bad for your health. "What we believe" is directly translated through that connection into healthy or unhealthy effects (in addition to the indirect effect our beliefs have on our survival by their translation into healthy/unhealthy behaviors.)

With respect to universal - I expect that there's genetic variability in all of our traits, including our need for acceptance. Some people have light skin and some people have dark skin. And then if you go out in the sun your skin gets darker.

But our ability to create beliefs is just an evolved tool to help us satisfy our needs, whether our resulting beliefs are true or not. So social effects, including the need for acceptance, have a strong effect on our beliefs.

And when I say us of course I mean you - me - I'm an optimally rational believer who only believes the truth. Seems like we all need to believe that!
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Jan 13, 2017 - 10:55am PT
Yea I agree - in the balance of nature and nurture, learning plays a big part in who we end up being. But like with bees, I think the process of indoctrination starts before we're born.

If we need to believe in our own exceptionalism, as humans, or Americans, then we believe.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 13, 2017 - 12:37pm PT
Words from the Golden Age of Yosemite climbing

In the early sixties we didn’t want women to be climbing partners necessarily; we wanted sex partners. An enormous amount of our time was spent scheming for this eventuality, but we certainly talked more than we acted. Mike Borghoff once described the sex-starved day of Camp 4:
“When I first hit Yosemite in 1957, I was a mountain trooper from Colorado, as straight as a lodgepole sapling and celibate to boot. Fortunately, two derelicts then in garbage-can residence soon put me straighter with vicious amounts of Red Mountain wine. When not busy laying the groundwork for the Golden Age (that’s about all they were laying), it seemed to my neophyte eye they stayed drunk. Why not? Even many years later women were unknown to that distant world....The only thing down at Cap 4 in the Elder Days was dogshit and Trit-Delts surrounded by their betrailered parents, about as accessible as the Crab Nebula. So we had beatoff contests on the bivouac ledges, drenched our sleeping bags in semen, got drunk and indulged in towering fireside smut.”

The mores of the fifties still pervaded society in the early sixties, and many women fought hard to protect their dignity, sometimes with Victorian fervor. I remember one prim Valley waitress who, after several “dates” (in parked cars), placed my hand on her clothed bosom. “That breast,” she sighed with perfect enunciation,” is yours, and yours alone, to hold.” Wanting clothes-ripping frenzies, not a Jane Austen heroine, I got out of that relationship immediately. One by one, however, the Valley climbers lost their virginity. I personally arranged for the deflowering of Eric Beck, a deed he appreciates to this day.
--Steve Roper in Camp 4

Words from Muir appearing in the Red Guide: Everything in the universe is not hitched together or something like that.

Maybe things are and maybe things ain't,
I'm not on track for becoming a saint.
While I don't feel guilty ignoring a schmuck
I will try to help a guy down on his luck.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 13, 2017 - 12:44pm PT
Odd how this popped up on the same page, I thought.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2930703/Masatoshi-Kuriaki-has-spent-nearly-800-days-ALONE-in-Alaska
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Jan 13, 2017 - 01:37pm PT

SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jan 13, 2017 - 07:36pm PT

Talk to Sigmund.
i-b-goB

Social climber
Wise Acres
Jan 13, 2017 - 08:48pm PT


John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.


...ultimate! : )
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Jan 14, 2017 - 10:53am PT
Peater

Trad climber
Salt Lake City Ut.
Jan 14, 2017 - 11:30pm PT
I don't really have anything intellectual or intelligent to add to this post but I'm psyched to see that there are so many smart and educated people here. I've enjoyed the reading so far. Even the dog crossing the road.

Sincerely

BruceHildenbrand

Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
Jan 14, 2017 - 11:57pm PT
A friend of mine once referred to Facebook as "existence validation."
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