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Climbnrok
Trad climber
LA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 23, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
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Some background on my skill level and intentions.. I'm a pretty average skier generally. Getting into the seriously steep isn't my main target. I'm mostly looking to get out in the back country in the winter and cover some miles in a weekend warrior type style.
I'm seeing almost all AT setups for Sierra back country type trips. The guide companies appear to push the AT setups. If downhill performance isn't my main goal, what would be the downside of a NNN-BC type system? It seems like it would be more efficient/lighter, seriously less expensive, and have the ability to play better on the groomed trails like Glacier Point road or Tamarack. Even if I had to get a set of track width and a set of wide back country skis it would still be way cheaper than an AT setup. Is there some reason I'm not seeing why a NNN-BC system would suck for moderate Sierra fun?
And yes, I know I'm going to die... especially if I don't get a tele setup.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Dec 23, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
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Personally, I don't think the NNN-BC system is that durable. I would recommend a cable binding for mellow backcountry skiing. This will get you down some moderate to steep hills.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Dec 23, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
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An NNN/BC setup (waxless metal-edge ski, 75-90mm waist, BC touring boot/binding) certainly has its place. Lightweight, no need to carry skins, etc.. Lots to do on a setup like that. I use one early season. Fun? Certainly.
Mountains tend to be, well, mountainous, so AT makes more sense when you're getting into steeper terrain. Super-lightweight AT racing gear is getting popular but comes with a hefty price tag.
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cleo
Social climber
wherever you go, there you are
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Dec 23, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
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I'm a huge fan of cross-country gear, including NNN BC. A couple of tips:
1 - boots matter way more than "metal edges" for surviving the occasional fast downhill. All skis have edges, and skiing on ice is no fun anyway.
2 - you want a boot with a stiff upper section/ankle. Some NNN BC boots are decent. If you're worried about downhills, go with a *very* lightweight plastic tele boot and 3-pin bindings. Something like the Garmont Excursion paired with the Voile mountaineer.
3 - having said that, long, straight XC skis will be faster than shorter, shaped, metal-edged skis, but the latter will offer more stability on the downhill. Note that Length, Shape, and Edge Type are all part of the equation. I use both, depending on where I'm going.
I've done the Yosemite trans-Sierra, Glacier Point Road, and Ostrander Hut trips on setups similar to these. For more hill-oriented skiing (in Tahoe), I use a lightweight telemark setup.
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cleo
Social climber
wherever you go, there you are
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Dec 23, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Dec 23, 2016 - 10:07pm PT
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I have a pair of waxless metal edge mounted 205s, I'd trade.
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Mark Rodell
Trad climber
Bangkok
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Dec 24, 2016 - 05:54am PT
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From 1972-92, I spent some time on X-C skis. Yes I did some steep and high stuff, but my roots were in kick and glide, mostly off track. I moved to Asia and now have made steps to return to California. I sold my quiver of skis long ago so yesterday I went to a local ski/backpacking shop to check out x-c gear. Times have changed, of course. I saw the waxes wide offerings, all with metal edges and was not impressed. Then off to the side I saw a pair of Bonna 2000s. Cool, old wood. Then the price... 895.00
I smiled and walked out. Maybe I can golf today and then, later, hit the thrift stores for x-c gear that makes sense to this old pine tree hugger.
Oh, I am on holiday here in Redding.
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Mark Rodell
Trad climber
Bangkok
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Dec 24, 2016 - 06:30am PT
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I skied a lot, light touring gear off many summits, many wild places, sometimes on wooden boards and soft boots. All skis have edges, otherwise they'd be logs.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Dec 24, 2016 - 07:31am PT
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I saw a guy ski off top of the old Mt. St. Helens in 1978 wearing light, probably edgeless, touring skis. Wore "heel locators," briefly popular & probably dangerous.
I had a pair of those, and fortunately never took any weird falls.
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Hoots
climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Dec 24, 2016 - 07:50am PT
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From what you are describing in terms of tours, a NNN setup with some good boots and a pair of metal edged scaled skis (with some kicker skins or full skins) should suffice.
What you lose is edging power on firm traverses, the obvious down-skiing trade-off, and the ability to skin up slopes much greater than about 12 degrees without starting to slip backwards if you are going skinless.
OK, now off to enjoy the powder day!
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Dec 24, 2016 - 10:23am PT
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I ski a fair amount in Yosemite and I would recommend simple 3-pin tele bindings with a wide Backcountry ski with a pattern on the bottom. For rolling terrain around here, putting on full skins all the time is a huge PITA.
I have the Rossignol BC 110 skis and love them.
Honestly, my ideal setup would be Voile Vector BC skis with a tech pin binding and high end Dynafit boots. A friend bought that setup last winter and was able to fly around the rolling terrain as well as crush some downhills. The scales dont really slow you down much unless your a true Alpine skier, but that sh*t is boring.
Edit: I would NOT recommend NNN style bindings or skinny skis that go along with them. Not durable or wide enough for BC touring in the sierras.
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Mark Rodell
Trad climber
Bangkok
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Dec 24, 2016 - 12:53pm PT
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Take something simple and pure and max. it out until it is only available to a few. I loved the simple nature of x-c. What is more pure than three pins, wool and an open glade?
of wax...jack rabbit red or green... wet or dry....make a snowball and you decide.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Dec 24, 2016 - 02:16pm PT
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For "mellow Sierra touring" go for back country gear!
Medium weight cross country skis with the NNN-BC bindings/shoes is all you need.
Learn to Telemark. Take a lesson or two to shorten the learning curve.
Keep your pack as light as possible as presumably what goes up must come down and going downhill in any snow condition with a load is really not a lot of fun. Been there, done that more than once.
Even just coming out of Ostrander with a big pack in deep fresh powder on BC skis was a serious workout.
Coming down from Shepherd Pass with tele gear and a load was a BITCCH.
My ancient knees can't tele any more so it's either XC or AT for me these days.
Unless I'm specifically going for the steep and the deep I much prefer back country/Tele skis and a light pack.
Now I just need to finish my carpal tunnel surgery recovery and get me arse out there. At least I haven't missed many good powder days this year.
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Urmas
Social climber
Sierra Eastside
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Dec 24, 2016 - 04:05pm PT
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You missed a good powder day today, high Traverse! I was telemark skiing on Mammoth Mountain today and it was wonderful! Of course the back country would have been great as well. Thank you for recommending telemark lessons. Folks can learn about some options at: skiwithurmas.com (shameless self-promotion)
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Dec 24, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
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^ I've taken telemark lessons with Urmas as part of the Bear Valley Tele Fest. Seriously, it improved my tele skiing by at least 100%.
Not sure if its being offered again for 2017, but the season long program of 5 x 3 hr sessions for $399 seems like a good deal for anyone with easy access to, or living on the Eastside. Urmas is one of the best tele instructors on the planet.
https://skiwithurmas.com/season-workshops/
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Climbnrok
Trad climber
LA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2016 - 11:29pm PT
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Thanks for all the great feedback.
What's the smallest width ski you would consider taking up Tioga to Tuolumne?
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Climbnrok
Trad climber
LA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2016 - 02:50pm PT
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65mm too small?
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east side underground
climber
paul linaweaver hilton crk ca
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Dec 25, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
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urmas is the man.......oh yea skinny skiis suck...heh heh heh
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Dec 25, 2016 - 03:54pm PT
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Get a splitboard
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Urmas
Social climber
Sierra Eastside
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Dec 25, 2016 - 04:29pm PT
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Brick, guess how much you would have to pay for an Alpine ski or snowboard private lesson at Mammoth?
The answer is: $225 - $240 per hour! Telemark lessons are a much better value, although still way pricey. I've heard it said that skiing is returning to its aristocratic roots. Too bad, in my opinion.
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