Trees Sons of Yesterday/New rap route needed?

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kingtut

Social climber
carmel, ca
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 11, 2016 - 02:01pm PT
Hey guys,

This is John Tuttle one of the original FA on Sons of Yesterday and it has come to my attention that the trees on the route are being slowly killed by climbing traffic.

I would like the community's input on possibly putting up an alternate rap route from the "summit" tree (probably down the Awhanee Buttress route) to effectively halve the abuse the trees get from us on the route.

They have been old friends the last 30 years and might make it at least another 30 if changes are made....? People climbing up stand on them removing bark that kills the tree (can't really be helped) but a different rappel route might help save/prolong their lives and eliminate some of the problems/accidents (rope burns etc) from people having to rap on top of each other...

Needless to say, I am not in climbing shape and might seek "service minded" members of the community to install the route.

Comments needed, feel free....
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Oct 11, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
What a great route.

If you would support it, I'm sure you could enlist some stout kids to get it done.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 11, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
Isnt this what eric Sloan is always on about? Placing a rap route that saves the nature of the original condition, and hopefully saving the trees that have to deal with the draught should be his required penance for his attempte to Comfertize and enhance = screw up free climbing routes.
He is the woot steward of the Valley, make him the tree root steward too.
toejahm

Trad climber
Chatsworth, CA
Oct 11, 2016 - 02:28pm PT
Hi John,
I have to admit I've stood on that tree many times. I'm not an arborist, but as an alternate to creating a separate rap line, you might consider a protective wrap for the trunk and possibly a traffic surface material to stand on. If I recall correctly the tree was embedded into the surrounding rock and created a pretty comfy stance, so protecting the trunk may even prolong it's life a little longer. IMHO

Cheers to a wonderful line,
peace,
Kenny
kingtut

Social climber
carmel, ca
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2016 - 02:51pm PT
I have to admit I've stood on that tree many times. I'm not an arborist, but as an alternate to creating a separate rap line, you might consider a protective wrap for the trunk and possibly a traffic surface material to stand on. If I recall correctly the tree was embedded into the surrounding rock and created a pretty comfy stance, so protecting the trunk may even prolong it's life a little longer.

Thanks for that. :)

I have to admit I hadn't considered that, but it may be worth considering, at least for the main trunks on those old guys.

I am not sure if the longevity of a wrap is a reasonable solution, long term, however I guess I should learn more about them as that could be ideal even for those climbing up.

But I also worry about the weight on them as parties stack up etc. and how this affects them long term. I think it might seem easy to dismiss my concerns, but I assure you even 15 years ago (the last time I climbed the route) their condition was worrisome. :(
Matt's

climber
Oct 11, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
I don't think it's the rapping that's hurting the trees, it's that they are directly on the route - people use them as holds, and sit on them to belay.
kingtut

Social climber
carmel, ca
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
I don't think it's the rapping that's hurting the trees, it's that they are directly on the route - people use them as holds, and sit on them to belay.

Right, people are not pulling ropes over them but the amount of standing on them gets doubled by people on the way down too plus the extra of additional parties. This is why I wonder if a separate rappel route might reduce damage and stress on them.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Oct 11, 2016 - 03:20pm PT
Hehe what a conundrum kingtut!

You don't own that route no matter what you think. Good for the goose, good for the gander. Sorry.

Put in a rap route, for sure. But your permission is not required, nor is your consultation.

Nice to have... but not required. The park and that route, belong to us all. Thanks for digging all that dirt outta there!

Cheers,
DMT
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Oct 11, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
Wrapping the tree with anything is more likely do damage/kill it than anything else.
kingtut

Social climber
carmel, ca
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
Hehe what a conundrum kingtut!

IKR? And I was just savaging erik sloan over extra convenience bolts on the nose ....I hope that saving these trees is seen/really is a different issue .....:(.

And I feel you on "ownership" issues too...I simply feel that I do have some standing to begin the conversation. :)

Final solutions might entail a recommendation to remove the anchor I placed at the tree and the one at the third pitch (or even maybe all fixed anchors) and using natural pro so people don't rap there...then directing people to another anchor to the east etc..
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 11, 2016 - 03:30pm PT

9. big pine tree is already dead. Most people don't climb the last slab pitch to reach it.
8. small bay tree is doing fine - people don't stand in it.
5. Everybody stands in this tree. It will die at some point, but seems pretty tough so far.
4.5. Tree partway up p5. Not used much.
4. This tree is dying, although people don't stand in it. Makes nice shade for now.

IF people climbed regularly to 9, they could rap an existing route to the right, and an anchor right of 5 could be placed to reduce damage to the tree at 5. But people rarely climb to 9.
Placing a rap anchor left of 5 would add risk, because if the rap to 5 hung up, it would be difficult to climb right to access the p6 crack to free the rope.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Oct 11, 2016 - 03:31pm PT
Gosh dang it! i always tell people "the trees are OFF RTE!" Ha.

wish I woulda known, I was just up there last week:D i woulda sunk in some steel for ya!

Way great route, btw! It's the cherry on top of the man made Serenity Sundae.

Thanks John for peacefully reaching out to the tribe)) BTW, are you related to any Tuttles from Auburn?

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Oct 11, 2016 - 03:34pm PT
Maybe a protective wrap like this to keep the unwashed masses off them?











Credit: the Fet

Just Kidding. I applaud you for starting this conversation and can think of no one better to bring the up that one of the first ascenders.

Although this is kind of a different issue than adding bolts to a route; adding a rap route is almost a new decision. I sounds like the proposed rap route path may impact another route more.

Personally my vote is to add the rap route. I'm VERY against changing the nature / difficulty of a climb. But I'm not against bolting in general if there isn't a better solution to a problem and/or it reduces other impacts (see the Gunks for a good example of where rap routes have prevented a lot of impact). I'd rather see the tress live longer than worry about some more holes in the rock.
kingtut

Social climber
carmel, ca
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
Thanks for that Clint. Just the guy I hoped might post.

Please see my edited post above for some thoughts that might entail removal of the anchors at 5 and 6 to send people to a rap route (perhaps) in the middle between SoY and AB....?
W.L.

climber
Edge of the Electric Ocean Beneath Red Rock
Oct 11, 2016 - 03:44pm PT
some thoughts that might entail removal of the anchors at 5 and 6 to send people to a rap routeWhy tinker with the removal of anchors on the route?
Just keep it the way it is and if anything install a rap route like initially discussed.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Oct 11, 2016 - 03:49pm PT
I simply feel that I do have some standing to begin the conversation. :)

For sure, carry on. I love your route probably done it 20-30 times over the years. Just love it!

DMT
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 11, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
I updated my photo above.

A route already exists between Sons of Yesterday and Ahwahnee Buttress,
and it has fixed anchor/rappel bolts with chains/quicklinks.
I think one of these anchors may be at D7, but I'm not sure, because it's been awhile since I have seen it.
My initial question is whether D7 can be reached from 8, which is where people usually stop.
It can be reached from 9. (A bolt anchor at 9 to replace the big dead pine tree would also be wise).

New rap stations could be added:
E6 just to the right of 6 and
E5 to the right of 5.
Just having these could stop the raps to the tree at 5.
And they would ease collisions between people rapping and climbing.

But it would be even better if the D7 rap anchor can be reached from 8 - it would be somewhat diagonal.
If this rappel is hard to do, it might also be possible to place a higher anchor at 8 which makes the diagonal rappel easier to do.

There is still the related issue of doing this diagonal rap and having your rope hit people at 7 or climbing on 6/7.

I'll try the diagonal rappel from 8 the next time I'm up there (probably in the next month).

P.S. I don't think it is necessary to remove existing fixed anchors, especially at 6. People often don't make it to 8 before dark so they start descents from many spots.
If the anchor at 5 was removed, I think people would still make a gear anchor at the tree and stand in the tree.
kingtut

Social climber
carmel, ca
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
A route already exists between Sons of Yesterday and Ahwahnee Buttress, and it has fixed anchor/rappel bolts with chains/quicklinks.
My initial question is whether it can be reached from 8, which is where people usually stop.

New rap stations could be added to the right of 6 and to the right of 5.
Just having these could stop the raps to the tree at 5.

But it would be even better if the upper rap anchor above 6 could be reached from 8 - it would be fairly diagonal.

If this rappel is hard to do, it might also be possible to place a higher anchor at 8 which makes the diagonal rappel easier to do.

There is still the related issue of doing this diagonal rap and having your rope hit people at 7 or climbing on 6/7.


Originally the route never stopped at "8" because it was too short a pitch, and we did the slab too (8 + 9) to the (now dead) pine to complete the link to AB. That is how the topo that was published in Climbing that I sent in was drawn.

How the anchor at "8" got doubled up and used for rappelling is probably due to the bad bolt we placed on the slab (since replaced). I left for Japan shortly after the route was done and Drew and Vince never fixed it. People probably backed off the slab and someone doubled it up...But the pitch should not end there as originally intended, for what its worth....

Point being, if that "8" anchor is removed and only one bolt is left to start the protection of the slab then people go to "9" to finish and getting on the "rap route" should be easy.

Thanks very much for your photo and participation.

ps. removing anchor at 5 is probably pointless, I agree, but if there isn't some kind of incentive to go past 8 the rap route might not accomplish much.
Mr_T

Trad climber
Northern California
Oct 11, 2016 - 04:19pm PT
Never been to the top of the slab (9th). Would it be possible to extend the route to the rim?

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7474841,-119.5767274,572a,20y,61.14h,62.78t/data=!3m1!1e3
kingtut

Social climber
carmel, ca
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
There are some big knobs and a crystal pocket (IIRC) at e5...D7 looks good but e6 is the issue if a decent spot is there IDK.
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