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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 23, 2016 - 11:30am PT
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With two tragic losses on high sierra ridge traverses I looked at some of the TR's for these routes and they look awkward and precarious. The photos seem to show lots of detached blocks and choss that you have to get around. It looks like the climbers are using running shoes for easy class 5 and a lot of soloing etc.. Who has done them and how challenging are they?
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cat t.
climber
california
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Sep 23, 2016 - 12:56pm PT
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Is it possible to accurately quantify the relative danger of High Sierra ridge climbs versus, say, trade routes in Yosemite? My gut feeling is that the former is a considerably riskier category, and one could be decently safe doing well-traveled routes and avoiding High Sierra chosspiles. My friends argue that we are bad at "gut feelings" and can't really assess risk accurately, but sometimes I think that's just an excuse to make us feel less guilty about the risky routes we've done. Would it change our decision making processes, if we could truly know the relative risk?
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
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The only high sierra route I have done is Moon Goddess Arete and we made the mistake of going to the gully too soon and learned it was full of loose rocks. I guess there is a reason to follow the ridges in choss land.
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cat t.
climber
california
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Sep 23, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
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Yeah, Mike, that's true. I guess the real question--the one my mom and my dad and Caitlin M. and Hannah and my bay-mate have all asked me this week--is whether we can make reasonable assessments of risks before choosing every individual climb, and only do routes where we truly believe we are minimizing the objective hazards. Obviously there's a grey area, and I think "trade route with a history of rock fall" falls into that category, but I really want to believe I can at least try to make decisions that the people I love would be okay with.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 23, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
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in general i think climbing harder correlates with safety, counterintuitively, as you aren't on choss and it trends towards overhanging and you tend not to run it out or solo but maybe i'm full of it.
Steepness is your friend. Ledges and loose rock not so much.
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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Sep 23, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
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Like ice climbing , every hold is suspect.
En Guard !
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brotherbbock
climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Sep 23, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
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Here is the Matthes Crest from last weekend. I love exposed ridges.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 23, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
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The more time you spend climbing, the more confident you become on easier terrain,
If you spend your formative climbing years in the Cascades and Rockies I'm
not sure that maxim holds (pun left, sorry). OK, maybe you become more
confident but I also feel your awareness should be greater. Somebody with
5.12 gym skills with a couple of years climbing in the Sierras is going to
be suspect in my eyes for quite a while.
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brotherbbock
climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Sep 23, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
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It's all about yer head man^^^^^^
Nothing else.
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cat t.
climber
california
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Sep 23, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
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Somebody with 5.12 gym skills with a couple of years climbing in the Sierras is going to
be suspect in my eyes for quite a while.
I have always been emotionally unsettled by "real" mountains, almost as though I believe they are actually some sort of vengeful gods or aggressive wild animals, that should be approached slowly at first, with small offerings, but never truly trusted.
Edit:
it's easy to mistake being aware of it with being able to control it and to continue my really stupid analogy, if they accept your small offerings--the hikes, scrambles, easy forays--should you really approach more aggressively? Do we really think we can predict when they'll unleash their seemingly random wrath?
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Sep 23, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
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I'm not sure, but I think having a roped belay would solve most of the problems except speed. Damn rope is a nuisance sometimes, but oh man if that rock comes loose and I slip....
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Sep 23, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
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A lot depends on whether you are trying to stay on the ridge proper, and whether you are willing to drop 100-200 feet from the crest to traverse ledge systems. Obviously, staying on the crest is a lot more difficult and complicated.
The worst ridges are the ones that are sawtooth - up and down. Without solid beta, traversing a sawtooth ridge is slow and tedious work, lots of exploring and poking around. Raps into the unknown are sometimes necessary.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
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I didn't start this thread to discuss or judge the people who have recently died; I am just curious about the routes.
On first impression The ridge routes seem too long for a competent but slow leader with need to use a rope here and there. You would run out of time at high elevation in the dark with a lot of loose rock. Ready made for epics. Regardless of what appears to be fairly easy ratings (5.7 or 5.8)I would think you really have to have your sh*t together to do the routes competently.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 23, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
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This topic is near and dear to me because I was hard up for a mid-week
partner and went against my gut feeling with a young phenom. He knocked
off a big one that came within an inch or two of taking my leg off. It got
me good anyway but I'm still walking. I can't walk and chew gum but I'm
good with that.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Sep 23, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
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You would run out of time at high elevation in the dark with a lot of loose rock. Ready made for epics.
Take the Sawtooth Ridge. You do it with planned bivies along the way. NBD. Heads-up though. Of course.
I would think you really have to have your sh*t together
Does this not help in all facets of climbing?
Still, rock climbing is a crap shoot. We all know this.
Like life.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Sep 23, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
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Here in the Colorado Rockies even the easier stuff like scrambling along a ridge crest can be dangerous.
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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Sep 23, 2016 - 04:06pm PT
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PSP- you should have been specific in the thread title or at least mentioned what routes in your post.
I think the possibility for an serious fall/accident just goes way up when you are unroped on 4th class terrain on these sierra ridges.
I'm finding myself reeling in my risk tolerance on these types of outings, choosing easier/shorter objectives, slowing down and pulling out the rope.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Sep 23, 2016 - 05:54pm PT
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Must be a troll post. Alpine climbing is just that. Different from cragging on a polished classic. Mileage scrambling on 3-4th class is the only thing that can prepare you for being in roped on exposed 5th class in approach shoes. And if you have all the experience possible, if you lose your focus you can f*#king die. Climbing is dangerous, climbing mountains even more so. Alpinism on high altitude peaks with much more danger is even more so. Whatever you do, pick your poison without expecting to be 100% safe. Can die top roping if not careful.
Several ridge traverses were some of my favorite outings...The FULL Evolution Crest traverse is particularly bad ass. Double the size of the Evolution Traverse. More difficult and more chossy in places. Wouldn't recommend it to every friend I have...
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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Sep 24, 2016 - 06:31am PT
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If you don't like soloing, and don't ever solo
climb,don't even think
about getting on one of these traverses!
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