Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 19 of total 19 in this topic |
Norrec
Mountain climber
Fairfax, VA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 21, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
|
Hey everyone, I was hoping to get some advice/help from the vast array of knowledge here. I have been following the site for quite awhile now, never thought I would have a need to post on it due to a very long and grueling battle with cancer that I finally won. Never thought my doctor would give me approval to start training but I went for broke and asked if he would clear me to do it. He actually said yes. It has been my life's dream since I was a kid to do the 7 summits, my original place was to do them all before I was 30 but that got changed. Now I want to do everything I can to get Denali done next year. I was hoping in all the knowledge here you could help me figure out a good training schedule towards this goal. Any tips or advice would be greatly welcomed and appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
|
Best climb training is climbing
Wear a heavy pack and slog through steep, deep snow
Repeat often
Make sure you're comfortable camping and sleeping outdoors when it's 35 degrees below zero.
Go outside in 40 mph winds when it's 20 below zero and be sure you're comfortable.
|
|
micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
|
Norrec that's fantastic news about beating that cancer. Build up that aerobic core slowly so you don't go tearing something small like a meniscus, etc while training. I've had many a friend blow out a knee, tear an ACL, tear a shoulder labrum while training for a bucket list event.
You may want to go out there and grind hard because your big muscle groups and your pride and your gusto and your lungs let you, but the little insidious damage from training can add up and sideline you before you ever get on the mountain.
My recommendation would be lots of walking with a pack on. Increasing the distance, weight, and uphill (and downhill) nature of the "work-outs." Literally waking up in the morning, putting on big mountain boots, filling a big pack with puppy chow and "heading to a Starbucks five miles across town" is a great way to start. I once did that while in dental school for a few months before flying out west. I would have my wife come pick me up at a pre- arranged place. Started at 5 miles, then 10 , then got up to 15-20 mile days just walking around town. I always liked going out in straight lines rather than a loop.....more adventurous that way. Always fun walking into a supermarket and getting a bite to eat with my fully loaded Bora 95 and my Makalu's on.
Go in the heat of the day. Go at night. Go when its raining. Just wake up and go. One foot in front of the other with a nagging pack and the tunes blasting in the headphones. That's where I'd start.
Stay stoked,
Scott
|
|
Norrec
Mountain climber
Fairfax, VA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
|
Thank you all for you suggestions so far I will definitely be following everything I can.
Climbski2 I will probably do guided unless I find a group of people who are up for a private group and have experience on Denali im not enthusiastic going up a mountain no one is experienced at again did that when I was younger and it was an unpleasant experience (im not opposed to extra work and training if needed) but so far I have not found one person in the Virginia (had to move for work from Idaho sadly) area who even likes hiking much less climbing/mountaineering. On that note I would love to find a group of people just to train with or show me around the area but so far that has proved less than successful.
I have quite a bit of experience at high altitude and camping in -20 degree weather but have not had to have much experience with crampon's snowshoes were good enough in the areas I could get to at the time.
Thanks again everyone and if anyone has anything else please throw it at me.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
|
You won't really be climbing but you will be doing a lot of uphill grinding. You live near sea level in flat terrain. You want to be in as good of aeorbic condition as possible.
When I guided in the Tetons I got a number of clients who promptly told me about their marathon running. Oops ....going uphill was an entirely different matter for them.
Get out in the hills if you can and get as much vertical in as you can. In the city stairs, as boring as they are, will help a lot.
Don't worry about acclimitization....your guide wool deal with that. Just arrive in the best shape you can....your trip will be much more enjoyable.
|
|
ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
|
if doing the West Butt ...
from 16 onward is PFA
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
|
Don't go in April and be the first ones to break trail.
...Ahem.... or at least I'm told....
Biking hills like a crazy person to get my cardio in shape and then slogging steep terrain with a heavy pack did it for me.
And get your digging muscles in shape. There's a lot of digging and block cutting.
|
|
ecdh
climber
the east
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
|
Best climb training is climbing
Wear a heavy pack and slog through steep, deep snow
Repeat often
Make sure you're comfortable camping and sleeping outdoors when it's 35 degrees below zero.
Go outside in 40 mph winds when it's 20 below zero and be sure you're comfortable.
^^^
this. done. SLR eruditely nailed it.
all i could add; note he said comfortable - not barely surviving. you want to be able to look at those conditions and shrug it off as you reach for the coffee. if you cant get beyond the basic environment it dont matter how fit you are as all your juice will go on details.
oh and find a good recipe for homemade energy bars. you will have the time to make them as become popular as everyone else gets sick of Clif bars.
|
|
D'Wolf
climber
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
|
Train smart; take it slow and slowly build up the mileage of hiking & running. As mentioned previously, it's easy to overdo it and hurt yourself. Add no more than 10% per week to your total training mileage (or training time). Spend 80% of your aerobic training at slower pacing (70% of Max Heart Rate), 10% per week at slightly higher pace for lactic threshold training (80-90% of Max Heart Rate), and 10% of your time for VO2 Max training (95%+ of Max Heart Rate). There's reasons for all this; do some research.
I'd say if you were comfortable covering half-marathon distances (13.1 miles) both running and walking, you'll be able to handle the daily grind on Denali; anything less is questionable.
I spent a ton of time on a stair climber in the gym during the week then hit the mountains on the weekends. Over time, I added about 30 lbs. to a day pack while on the climber. Some people hate the monotony of treadmills and stair climbers indoors but there's method to the madness: at 90 minutes into a hard stair workout when your brain is just numb and you just can't take anymore... that's about how you're going to feel after 14 days in sometimes freezing, sometimes roasting temps; slogging all day with a heavy pack only to have to dig out a camp at the end of the day - all at altitude. That's how you're going to feel on summit day; learn to focus and grind it out. For me, the stair climber workouts are as much mental training as physical.
One thing I learned on an Ecuador trip, don't listen to people who give you this advice...
Fill you pack with water bottles for weight and hike to a summit somewhere then dump the water for the downhill to save your knees. Horrible advice. I didn't do that, but the point is that I didn't do enough downhill training in general for that trip and my legs were screaming coming down Chimborazo after already doing Antisana and Cotopaxi.
You need that eccentric muscle strength in you legs coming down. Train for downhill stress as much as uphill. Keep the weight in your pack coming down. A lot of people are great at going up hill but fall apart coming down.
Also, train side delts (lateral deltoid raises). You're going to lift that little, meaningless, featherweight ice axe out to your side about 150,000,000 times with each arm - you'll feel it before you know it.
Good luck in your training!
Thom
|
|
Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2016 - 06:35am PT
|
Don't forget the whiskey, weed and skis!
Guided group? Learn to snowshoe,Doh!
|
|
trailridge127
Trad climber
Loveland, CO
|
|
|
Jul 23, 2016 - 07:50am PT
|
In addition, to the great advice posted. Denali(west buttress especially) requires the ability to suffer and persevere both mentally and physically. Congratulations on winning your battle with cancer. Being that this is a long time dream of yours and you must have mental tenacity to overcome what you have, I think you will do great. While you are there take it all in the good(incredible views and experiences) and the bad(sleds and whole lot of work). In the end you will have a good time. Good luck and be sure to post how your trip was.
|
|
clifff
Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
|
|
|
Jul 23, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
|
Practice breath holding or pranayama to oxygen stress the body. The body will respond by building up the blood's oxygen carrying capacity.
By cold stressing the body one can reawaken one's ancient animal abilities of cold tolerance:
The Power of the Cold Shower
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jglxMHd4uxI
Extreme Winter Survival
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUvDJSdFe7s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScmQxuRrFww
Carbon Monoxide Hazards with Backpacking Stoves
Carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning in tents is a real danger for those that use lanterns or stoves in tents and snow caves. CO is an odorless, tasteless, colorless, nonirritating gas formed by the incomplete combustion of stove fuels and has a way of sneaking up on unsuspecting campers. This poisonous gas can cause minor symptoms such as headache, nausea and fatigue, but can also result in long-term cognitive impairment or death. Between 1990 and 1994, there was an annual reported average of 30 fatal CO poisonings in tents or campers in the USA. And considering the frequency and amount of deaths caused by using stoves in enclosed spaces, it appears that the deadly dangers of using a stove in a tent are not common knowledge.
http://zenstoves.net/COHazard.htm
I bet that over 50% of high altitude climber deaths are due to their physical and mental abilities being compromised by carbon monoxide poisoning. They go out and make poor decisions or lose their balance due to CO poisoning. Cerebral and pulmonary edema are due to low oxygen at the cellular level. Carbon monoxide poisoning greatly impairs the delivery of oxygen to the cells.
http://www.google.com/?client=pub-5123488992444294#domains=supertopo.com&hl=en&q=cliffhanger+monoxide+site:supertopo.com
|
|
ecdh
climber
the east
|
|
|
Jul 23, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
|
Clifff: does this actually have much effect? In willung to be convinced, but for the time required im wondering what the results are compared to the more specific effort of creating oxygen demand simply by aerobic threshold training.
I get the oxygen exchange process from breath retention, but figure lung capacity and diaphragm strength would matter more as amount of O2 isnt the issue, ambient pressure is. Its endurance of breathing rather than individual breaths that counts.
I agree that respiratory development helps a lot, based on the apparent fact that the diaphragm loses huge efficiency at altitude and thus compromises respiration at the bud, but like hypoxic mask training seems little research into it, and the time spent in it can be used with better effect.
As it goes i use exercises that work on diaphragm expansion and find it really helps recovery on uphills with oxygen demand.
Happy to be enlightened tho, it all helps.
|
|
clifff
Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2016 - 12:22am PT
|
Ecdh - The only experimental data I have is the time I climbed the 3 big volcanoes (17,300 - 18,700 feet) in central Mexico and had no problems with altitude.
Pranayama - breathe in slowly, hold breath, breathe out slowly, hold breath, repeat. Pranayama and breath holding requires no dedicated time at all, since it's just changing the way you breathe you can do it anytime ie: watching TV, reading, driving, or even exercising or climbing.
With pranayama or breath holding the body experiences the same oxygen stress that high altitude would cause, and the body responds the same way - by building up the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood. I think that even a few minutes a week would have big benefits.
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2016 - 04:06am PT
|
The wind, combined with the cold, can be murderous
|
|
yosguns
climber
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2016 - 02:38pm PT
|
Norrec,
How's the training coming?
Allyson
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
|
Energy bar recipe that worked well for me in relatively balmy weather:
http://www.supertopo.com/tr/A-Pictureful-Wintery-Weekend-in-Yosemite-Nov-2012/t12339n.html
Bacon, eggs, carbs, pine nuts, butter, all cooked up and in a blender.
You can also do it with tofurkey or turkey bacon, egg whites, rice, etc. to address pig avoidance, gluten intolerance, low-cholesterol diet, etc.
Pretty tasty and satisfying when you are cold and hungry- can't speak for how it goes down when you are wheezing and dying at altitude and minus 40.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
|
Anyone with stories (good or bad) of getting red blood cell injections to short-cut the aerobic training process?
|
|
| Messages 1 - 19 of total 19 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!