Is 5.13 qualitatively different from 5.12 and 5.14?

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Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 4, 2016 - 09:01pm PT
Is 5.13 qualitatively different from 5.12 and 5.14?

or is it just more distance on a route (of 5.12 sized holds) on slightly steeper terrain?



Haven't asked this question in a long while, and since I can't even hardly climb 5.9 right now, I want to believe that 5.13 is still possible for me?


Is there a good soft 5.13 with big holds in the Bay Area or within 4 hours?


Pics of your favorite 5.13s are legit.


WBraun

climber
Feb 4, 2016 - 09:11pm PT
Carrying all that baggage in your head you'll never get off the ground ......
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2016 - 09:11pm PT
It is a little heavy.

And I'm a little light duty.


heh
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Feb 4, 2016 - 09:36pm PT
a good soft 5.13 with big holds

clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Feb 5, 2016 - 01:14am PT
a good soft 5.13 with big holds

Big and soft will need reinforcing.
overwatch

climber
Feb 5, 2016 - 06:50am PT
Bay area classic...Mt. MaBalls

Edit;
Yep even a geezer can handle it.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 5, 2016 - 06:52am PT
But it's 11
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Feb 5, 2016 - 07:03am PT
and short.
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Feb 5, 2016 - 08:21am PT
If you have to ask........... (I include myself in that category) Although as time goes on some of my old favorite 5.7's and 5.8's are now considered 5.9's and 5.10's.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Feb 5, 2016 - 08:34am PT
I have TOP ROPED one 5.13 in Indian Creek. As a complete expert, I can say 5.13, is just harder than 5.12. Or sometimes not. Thin face, finger cracks, laybacks, overhanging juggy and sequential sport routes, OWs etc, will all feel different. Different crags have different style of climbing and also feel different. :)

As with 5.10 5.11 or whatever, it is a variety of things that can make something 5.13. Some 5.10s are just super sustained 5.9 moves, some are not sustained at all, but have a short boulder problem. I think if one is able to consistently onsight 5.11 to 11+, maybe it is worth finding some 5.13 which suits their style and work on it for several days. See if the moves will make sense, find the personal crux, see if it is possible to overcome it. Is it a boulder problem, putting together a sequence, technique or endurance that is the problem?
Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Feb 5, 2016 - 08:39am PT
^ yeah, I really don't get some of the grade inflation on the old moderates. I's especially sad given that many of those routes were done in EB's, PA's, or worse, and before cams. Often, before nuts or kernmantle ropes. Just because it's hard for you, kids, doesn't mean it's not 5.7.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 5, 2016 - 08:42am PT
Is there a good soft 5.13 with big holds in the Bay Area or within 4 hours?


Isn't "soft 5.13" an oxymoron?

From what I can tell, they only way you get a 5.13 with big holds is by tilting the camera. From overhanging to severely overhanging. Try Jailhouse.
snyd

Sport climber
Lexington, KY
Feb 5, 2016 - 09:00am PT
"A number has never climbed anything."
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Feb 5, 2016 - 09:02am PT
Well if you look at star ratings on mountain project there was never a 5.13 that wasn't 4 stars............
darkmagus

Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
Feb 5, 2016 - 09:11am PT
Qualitatively: no

Quantitavely: yes
Killer K

Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
Feb 5, 2016 - 09:12am PT
5.12 = V4
5.13 = V7
5.14 = V11
5.15 = V14+

Works for sport routes mainly. Go bouldering. Try a few 3 move V7s and see if you can do the moves. If so 5.13 is most likely attainable with enough fitness.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Feb 5, 2016 - 09:16am PT
^ yeah, I really don't get some of the grade inflation on the old moderates. I's especially sad given that many of those routes were done in EB's, PA's, or worse, and before cams. Often, before nuts or kernmantle ropes. Just because it's hard for you, kids, doesn't mean it's not 5.7.


Well, some routes get very slippery with traffic and holds break off. ALSO, climbers at this point in time, travel to different crags and get to sample MUCH more terrain. When you are exposed to more climbs you are able to give a better opinion on the rating of a particular pitch.

It doesn't matter what a first party that climbed the route claimed it to be, it matters what it REALLY is for a party that is trying to onsight it. No one owns the rock. Individuals can't climb the route and change the rating. But I think if a route has seen many repeats and 30 parties that climb it call it a 5.8, even though the FA party said it was a 5.9, with 3 other parties calling it a 5.9, it is likely a 5.8. Makes sense? No one owns the rock. If the FA party climbed the route 5 times and their rating went from 5.9 at first to 5.7+ because they figured out every move, it does not mean the route will feel 5.7+ for someone trying to onsight.

When I personally do FAs, it is usually in the backcountry and I have only one chance to climb a particular pitch. I do my best to climb it and figure out the moves, give it an honest rating. My partner does the same, than we give an opinion. A lot of the time, we are off by half a grade, at times we are right on. If the route sees five repeats by competent climbers and there is a consensus that is not in line with our opinion, we are totally open to change the rating, as it is supposed to be an honest suggestion of what difficulties to expect. I don't want to sandbag people and I don't want them to think it is soft, so usually give an honest opinion and base it on popular climbs of similar style.

"A number has never climbed anything."

+1 CAN CLIMB or CAN'T CLIMB, have to get better. :)
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Feb 5, 2016 - 09:21am PT
on many 13s the hardest moves aren't any harder than v3, just a lot of it and super-pumpy with no real rests. think RRG.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Feb 5, 2016 - 09:37am PT
12+, that's a 5.13- brah. And 5.13- is a SOLID 5.13. F-yeah!
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Feb 5, 2016 - 10:18am PT
Supertopo ponders hard climbing - hilarious...!

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