Making a Murderer (OT plus Spoilers)

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GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 7, 2016 - 10:24pm PT
For those who haven't caught the episodic Netflix documentary....


1985 - after years of back-and-forth with small town families in rural Wisconsin, Steven Avery is tried convicted of Rape after an investigation by the Manitowoc Sheriffs dept.

2003 - DNA testing catches up and Steven Avery is released - Gregory Allen, the true culprit, had committed several violent crimes since 1985 and at the initial trial Manitowoc PD warned the Sheriffs department that Greg was a possible subject, which was roundly ignored, and his DNA was found on the sex crime kit.

2003 - Steven Avery files 36 million dollar lawsuit. Insurance for the department do not cover and the suit would be criminal and paid by the county.

October 2006 - Theresa Halbach goes missing.

November 2006 - Her Rav 4 and remains are found on Steven Avery's property, and in the week long search a key is found by the same sergeants responsible for Stevens 1985 arrest, Sergeants not allowed on scene due to a conflict of interest. A key not seen in the first few days of searching but was found on the floor in plain view where there was none before.




That's when sh#t starts to get interesting. I've watched three episodes now and I'm obsessed. There's some dark sh#t going down in Manitowoc...



justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Jan 8, 2016 - 07:54am PT
Locked down in my studio with the cold weather I'm mining Netflix right now since we don't have cable and the video joint closed.

I'm about where you are on that series. I'm interested to see where it goes. It's extremely disturbing to contemplate the whole scenario as a real event.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 8, 2016 - 08:09am PT
Netflix has another documentary even more disturbing. Down in Texas a guy was executed even after it was proven that he was innocent. Gov. Rick Perry disbanded a state committee that was about to announce he was innocent. Rick Perry murdered a man for his own political gain.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jan 8, 2016 - 08:19am PT
I did a marathon on Making a Murderer.
Very worth it.
I'm left totally conflicted. You'll enjoy it. It is troubling on many levels.
I'm now doing the Podcast "Serial" on rainy day gym workouts. It's supposed to be compelling also.

Susan
Prod

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2016 - 08:22am PT
OOOOOHHHHHHHHH!!!!

It's a goodie!

2 sittings in 2 days. Only stopped to pee.

Prod.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 8, 2016 - 08:24am PT
I just saw last night that Nancy Grace has already called this one.

A documentary to show that cops lie all the time. Novel.

At least three witnesses to the Laquan McDonald police killing were questioned for hours, threatened by officers and ordered to change their accounts to match the official Chicago police version of the shooting, the attorneys for the teen's estate say.

Next up:

Whole nother can of worms and considerably shorter

[Click to View YouTube Video]
this just in

climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
Jan 8, 2016 - 08:26am PT
Great documentary. Though documentaries tend to be one sided, those cops are lying their asses off.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jan 8, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
I wonder if Avery will dedicate his life to finding the "real killer," a la OJ Simpson. The evidence of guilt in the two cases is about the same.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
Remember during the preliminary hearing, when katz retold the story that Brendan had told the interrogating officers, with extra pizazz and gore that wasn't in the original account? Right after saying "children under... um... 15 should leave, this is really bad stuff", when he described a brutally messy scene with zero evidence to support it, including the extra events he made up?

Great prosecuter, I would definitely trust him.


For my point, I think Steven Avery *probably* did it - but that doesnt' exonerate the terrible police work that led first to his original mis-trial and then almost a second.

Imagine this - Steven Avery is guilty but is let off like O.J. because as#@&%e cops plant evidence and push an agenda.

THAT would be bad.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
Victims in this case, as I see it, ranked in order of how unfortunate:

Theresa Halbach
Penny Beernstein
Brendan Dassey
Steven Avery


The last two are contentious - the first two are not.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jan 8, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
Brendan is such a sad soul. To be smart enough you know you are limited intellectually and then get, somehow, pulled into a situation that was way beyond anything he could cope with, layered on top of being a teenager. My heart did actually break for him.

Susan
MattB

Trad climber
Tucson
Jan 8, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
Haven't seen it, but somewhat familiar.

County framing murder over lawsuit, or is there deeper motive?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 10, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
Just finished watching it.

Powerful stuff, and very complex.

One thing to remember is that there is bias in everything we view.
John M

climber
Jan 12, 2016 - 06:37pm PT
I'm on episode six now. This is painful to watch. They framed this guy twice. I don't know who killed the woman, but I don't believe Steven Avery did. If he did, then he is the greatest actor ever.

That is at least how I see it up to episode 6. Just had to say something because this is so terrible. Someone got away with murder and with framing this guy.

I would put him at the top of Greg's list. Two framings and more then 20 years in prison.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 12, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
Jesus! They deal in cat parts?!?!
John M

climber
Jan 12, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
Its not even remotely elementary.. What the cops did to Brendan is proof of that. If even half of what he said was true, then they would have found blood evidence in the trailer or the garage. They found neither, nor did they find evidence of a clean up.

the gun is easy to explain if you believe the cops were planting evidence. which I do believe.

Is it possible that some of the Averys are messed up? yes.. they aren't that intelligent and so easily swayed and easily messed up.

Brendans first lawyer was utterly and completely incompetent. shamefully incompetent, to allow a 16 year old client to be interviewed without him present. And to have his own investigator lead that young man that way. Brendan is functionally mentally retarded. A functional IQ of 73 and a verbal IQ of 69.


blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jan 12, 2016 - 10:04pm PT
Having a hard time reconciling some of the above comments and today's CNN article http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/12/entertainment/steven-avery-appeal-feat/index.html
Is CNN in on the conspiracy?
It neglected to mention that he was framed, and noted that his appeal focuses on a near guaranteed loser (one juror pressured the others to vote guilty?!) and an invalid search warrant (which may or may not be loser, but is hardly a claim of innocence and being framed).
The notion that police would frame someone because he has a lawsuit pending against the county seems pretty nutso (might the police think that the case would get heightened scrutiny and their framing would be uncovered?), but I suppose stranger things have happened.
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Jan 12, 2016 - 10:10pm PT
^^except the conflict of interest coupled with the "increased scrutiny" Meant absolutely nothing in regards to a conviction in the second case.


Where was the blood, jizz, and spit in the room?


It's the judges that failed the state.
Rolfr

Trad climber
La Quinta and Penticton BC
Jan 13, 2016 - 09:30am PT
Do we all believe everything a film maker produces? There are a lot of inconsistencies and items the film maker left out for better drama and increasing the ratings.

I am not disputing there was a miscarriage of justice , but why is everyone so eager to assume the film is unbiased. !

Dig a bit deeper and you will discover numerous inconsistencies and biased reporting on both side.

Example ,Making A Murderer did mention Avery’s whole “young and stupid” phase that led to him being charged with animal cruelty, but what the show didn’t mention was how explicitly cruel it actually was. In the show, the animal cruelty incident was depicted as Avery just having some youthful fun of chucking a cat over a bonfire, assumingly to watch it freak out when it lands on the other side, and accidentally misjudged his throw.

What actually happened was that Avery and his friends found some gasoline and oil, drenched the cat and then threw it in the fire to watch it burn.

"When they brought out the fact that he lit a cat on fire, I think that's when people started to turn against him," said Chris Avery, 57, Avery’s aunt by marriage, according to Madison.com. "It's almost hard to put your face out there.
John M

climber
Jan 13, 2016 - 10:19am PT
but why is everyone so eager to assume the film is unbiased. !

can you point to anyone who has said the film is unbiased? At least on this thread. I don't think that its unbiased.

I also though see the holes in the polices case, and the abuses. why was so much of the evidence against him found by the police force who supposedly took themselves off the case because of the lawsuit against them? evidence that places that woman in both the garage and this trailer and was not found by the other police department that searched for weeks and months. Something that they have no other evidence of. No blood in the trailer, though supposedly her throat was cut. No blood in the garage, though supposedly she was shot 11 times. The cop who found the key, a key with only Stevens DNA on it, though it was her key, this key was found by a cop who wasn't supposed to be there. Plus the evidence was tainted because it had both the lab persons DNA and Stevens, yet no DNA from the person who used that key for 11 years. A cop who had good reason to frame him as his future was at stake. This key was found months after multiple groups of police searched this very small trailer.

Then who found the bullet that supposedly killed her? A bullet found months after multiple searches were conducted in a garage where no other evidence was found. They dug up the cement floor where there were cracks to try to find blood. No blood found, though she was shot 11 times. They also found no evidence that it had been cleaned up as they found other DNA. Just not the woman's. There were also no blood splatters and if you saw the pictures of that garage, then you would find it every difficult to clean. Nothing was found.

Then there is the facts of where her body was burned. Why were bones found in 3 different burn places? A burn pile out of sight of Stevens trailer and out of sight of much of the rest of the property. A burn barrel. And the area next to Stevens house where most of the bones were found. Why would Steven move the body from a burn pile away from his home, to one next to his home. That makes no sense unless you realize she was burned in the pile away from the trailer, then her ashes were put in the barrel and she was transported to the spot near the trailer. Why would Steven do that?

As for the bullet coming from Steven's gun. They didn't find the bullet in the woman. An officer who shouldn't have been searching found it in the garage where no other evidence was found, except for shell casings, which were found all over the property. No blood, no hair, nothing.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. At this point we have no way of knowing who actually killed this woman. Which is very sad to me. Plus I believe Steven was framed.

Is the film biased? Of course it is. But watch it and listen to his lawyers. They of course want to win, but these are very thorough and decent people. I don't believe they would lie for the camera just to win. Plus they would have to be brilliant actors and so would steven.

This whole thing is a tragedy. And there is definitely evil afoot in that police department. Watch the interviews of Brendan and tell me thats not evil.

Plus if you think a police department isn't up for framing someone, then watch and see how they convicted him of the first attack, one which he served 18 years for and which he was found innocent because of DNA. One which they knew there was another guy who matched the description, but they refused to look at, and who was found to be the person who did the attack. They framed him. That police chief did the composite drawing off of either memory, his own, or off of a police mug shot. Look at the hair. It looks exactly like what Stevens hair looked like at the time and not what the real guy who did it looked like. So they tainted the only witness that they had, the woman who was attacked.


This police department is corrupt and the whole thing is a travesty.

Edit: also.. watch the testimony of the FBI guy, who testified that he could say unequivocally that all six blood splatters did not have the persevative in it, though only 3 samples were tested. and then watch the lab expert who testified for the defense and tell me that something isn't hinky there.
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