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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 7, 2015 - 06:01pm PT
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Was climbing at Alabama Hills last weekend. Miss Colleen did a climb and clipped two mussys. These are the narrower of what appears to be two sizes. The keeper clips were gone (they're cheesey to start with). The rope was twisted from climbing so when she leaned back to lower off the twists torqued the rope out of one of the two hooks. Rather then risk the same thing happening to the other one by pulling back in, she lowered off of one hook. I don't like tow hooks or cold shuts and never have. I've seen climbers move above them and seen ropes disengage from them. They've made climbers lazy and some never learn to thread chains or rings. Problem is you need to use them on many climbs to get off. Scary. Be careful with them, especially if your rope is twisted to the point where it begins to bunch. Having to clip the mussys and go through the tying and untwisting and re-tying back in would have worked but things happened quickly. Anyway, I don't like open anchor systems.
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the czar
climber
meyers, ca.
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? climbing thru the mussys, lowering off mussy? or just, rappelling off mussy, like they are intended?
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2015 - 06:24pm PT
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She lead a climb and clipped them to lower off in the usual way....
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Ed H
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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I'm glad it all turned out well for you and Colleen
This thread needs pics
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Is Colleen very light?
Will you say more about the rope- like, really stiff in addition to being extremely kinked?
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Ed H
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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Looks awesome
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2015 - 07:00pm PT
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Thanks for the thoughts and pics Ed. Ya, hefe, the rope was kinking and, as you know, the rope kinks grow or shrink depending on how it's weighted and changes. And, from Ed's photos, you can see the retaining clips intact on those but most hooks I come across lost the retainers. The retainers aren't very strong like a carabiner gate. As mentioned, I've seen climbers clip retainerless hooks, move above them and unhook them because no retainers. I won't use mussys on climbs I put up. Also, is it anyone else's observation that mussys come in different sizes at climbing areas? These seemed to have a narrower slot then others and Colleen said she had to finesse the rope into the hooks.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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JUNK FROM THE GET GO>>Messy Hooks never like them. those are Smash Links dude. soft steel.
Not the same thing as in your photo above. Monkey Links are round bent metal for tire chains and much smaller.
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Ed H
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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Monkey links?
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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My $0.02, if you come across a pair of Mussy Hooks with missing keeper gates as in this instance, you need to be very, very, very careful how you weight the rope. If you really don't want to take a chance at something happening then just feed the rope through the quick links to which the Mussy Hooks are attached. That's not ideal, but is better than having the rope come unhooked from the hooks.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Owens River Gorge in the mid Nineties had every convenience anchor grooved out to almost half it's original thickness. I hope things are different these days.
The problem at Owens River Gorge is not with substandard hardware getting worn out. The problem there is that the rock dust that gets into your rope is very abrasive. The ASCA has been using Mussy Hooks on many of the popular routes, but even those beefy steel hooks don't last a season. Best to rappel.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Having to clip the mussys and go through the tying and untwisting and re-tying back in would have worked but things happened quickly.
Rule #1 that will keep you and everyone else alive... Slow down and do it right the first time.
No matter how much time it takes do it right, ALWAYS work together as a team and if either sees a potential dangerous issue, speak up and insist the other member fixes it and does it right. Check and recheck the system to ensure all is good and the system has no potential for failure.
The ASCA has been using Mussy Hooks on many of the popular routes, but even those beefy steel hooks don't last a season. Best to rappel.
Yup. They don't last long cus folks are too lazy and use em for TR's etc instead of setting up their own system off the hangers to do so.
These seemed to have a narrower slot then others and Colleen said she had to finesse the rope into the hooks.
Just the standard ASCA issued Mussy's. I know. I placed em over five years ago. Over 82 sets throughout the A-Hills with material supplied by the ASCA. The ones in Ed H's photo are my cammo paint job.
EDIT:
Since my days of rebolting most of the A-Hills over a period of seven months, my understanding is the ASCA has shifted away from Mussy's and are now issuing these bad boys...
So if anyone out there wants to take the initiative and go replace the totaled Mussy's at the A-Hills, contact Greg Barnes (ASCA) and have him get you set up with the new and improved Fixe Sport Anchors and associated materials then go get to work.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2015 - 11:46pm PT
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Good advise all! I was going to have her go through the routine of treating it like a clip in with gear and thread lower off like bhilden suggests but I was afraid that if she unweighted she'd pop off. Also, does anyone think mussy's twist the crap out of ropes? I ended up pulling the long end of the rope through after every climb to untwist it.
We don't have a lot of experience with mussy's. We don't normally climb in areas where they're used but since moving to the East Side we've really enjoyed going to the Hills when it's too cold everywhere else. I will get in touch with Greg. I'd be happy to replace any worn or broken hooks as I see them.
Edit: Chief. What bolts are being used? 3/8"x3" wedge? SS or steel?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Any type of hook or quick clip for a top anchor sucks. It simply teaches people to be stupid, lazy and complacent. all traits that can get you killed climbing.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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People can get themselves killed with the most fastidiously equipped anchor. I love mussies and Im not dead as far as I can tell.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Always carry a 'bail' 'biner or two. Stop and think - Check the bolts and chains - clip in go off belay - add an extra piece or two - then evaluate the risk, leave the extra if it makes the anchor safer than it would be without.
do not just slip the rope into a slot without checking the whole anchor rig out.
The chief's post covered most of the issues that have become common place .
I was schooled that this answer shows my generational gap. No one carries 'bail' biners anymore?
Bail 'biners? leaving $6 bucks at the top of a climb? Verses a one OPEN clip lower?
Learn what gear is to be used to top rope through , or lower through, or
As in this case rappel the safe old way .
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Cheers for learning the 'old' way. But people are lazy, and dumb, and you cant fix that. How the hell do people like that even learn to climb in the first place? Seriously, leaving a biner on an anchor to keep it safe is a mere pittance, a small entry fee to pay.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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I once placed an anchor on a route I did. Left two ~8" lengths of fairly heavy chain hanging down. Climb up, clip the chains with your backup, feed the rope through the ends of both chains, rappel, right?
Later on, when I came back, someone had taken a lightweight quicklink and put it through the ends of both chains and used that to lower or rap off.
I guess it was too much for modern climbers to figure out. If they knew sh*t about climbing, maybe there would be hope.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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There is the concept of having the work link replaceable, otherwise that bottom link will wear and then the whole chain has to be replaced. But linking the two chains with one crossloaded link isnt very bright.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Lead climb.
Set up your own lowering/toproping anchor using quickdraws into the bolts, preferably with a locker at the rope end.
Lower off.
Second either follows of pulls and releads, then raps the route.
If the route is followed, leave the last bolt on the route clipped to the belayers end on the way up and clean it on rappel when the top anchor is weighted from below (backs up the anchor).
This really doesn't take much more time, saves all the wear and tear on the anchors and is safer. What the mussys do is save you from having to feed the rope through links at the anchor.
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