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alannamal
climber
B.C.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 8, 2015 - 08:37pm PT
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Are you guys stoked that the Keystone XL Pipeline got nixed by Obama? I checked in here thinking there would be a bunch of folks pleased that big oil got a swift kick in the balls, but nothing?
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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I'll take a pipe load.
Not that type of pipe load...
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alannamal
climber
B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
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We don't need pipelines or oil trains. Or oil tankers. Or any of that dirty shit!
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alannamal
climber
B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2015 - 09:09pm PT
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Jim, do you think it's partly because the pipepline would have run through so many places where people with voices that kind of get heard were a big part of why it got cancelled? It's not like it's a bunch of indigenous people in some 3rd world country were getting their habitat violated, it was us! And we said eff that.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroads own all the rail lines which run from western Ca into the US. They run about 80% of the oil and charge other carriers to use their tracks to haul the rest.
BNSF gets about 3x the money than the pipeline would cost ($30/gallon vs $10/gallon.) State Dept. estimates.
BNSF is owned by Berkshire Hathaway (remember that guy named Warren Buffet?)
Buffet was a major contributor to Democrats in general during the last two election cycles, and hosted numerous huge fund raisers for President Obama.
The numbers say that Buffet could lose $2B/year if the pipeline goes through. So Obama nixes the pipeline despite the fact that it will be safer, emit less carbon that railway engines, and cost less.
Time to follow the money folks.
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couchmaster
climber
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Alananimal said: "We don't need pipelines or oil trains. Or oil tankers. Or any of that dirty shit! "
"We"? Speak for yourself. How do you manage to live without using any of that modern sh#t? You walk everywhere including to your climbing area? Keep the heat turned off in your home. Never, ever use any electrical lights, never use hot water, washer and dryers, refrigerator, freezer, watch TV, Go shopping at a store or use phones or any of that other modern Shit?
Interesting. How were you able to type this post then?
In either case, the Canadians are now free to reroute the pipeline to the west coast and run tankers to China. None of those tankers will ever spill any of that sh#t into the ocean. But if they did, I'm sure the ecology of the ocean is much better able to handle it rather than a spill onto the dirt of the sensitive environments of Nebraska, Oklahoma or Iowa. So may I send my congrats on "stopping" (cough*rerouting*cough) the pipeline? Big win. Not.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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The project gets the POTUS nix a week after Keystone announces they are dropping their application to build?
That's supposed to be a victory for Obama? Pretty much like closing the barn door after the horses have left, methinks.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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I agree with Dingus that Obama’s decision is largely symbolic.
Here’s my $0.02…
With WTI trading @ ~ $45/Bbl, Athabasca Tar Sand mining, processing, and transportation is a long way from being profitable. Obama’s timing is interesting considering low oil prices and the upcoming UN Climate Change conference in Paris. Unless one’s objective is to completely shut down Tar Sand mining operations, many of the crude shipping alternatives to KXL may, in fact, do more environmental harm than good. Tar crude via KXL is destined for Gulf Coast refineries and foreign diesel markets, mainly in Europe & Latin America, so KXL has nothing to do with US energy security.
Even the left leaning, tree-hugging Truthdig.com website posted this cartoon…
Identifying reasonable alternatives to KXL and weighing their pros and cons in terms of carbon footprint and environmental risk is complicated and requires an understanding of world oil markets, global demand for diesel, crude transport methods, existing contractual relationships between the Canadian Govt, TransCanada Corp, Kinder-Morgan, Gulf Coast oil refiners (e.g., Valero, Shell, etc), BNSF Railway, etc.
Although this paper is a bit outdated, it provides some interesting insights on KXL…
http://priceofoil.org/content/uploads/2011/09/OCIkeystoneXL_2011R.pdf
More than anything else, oil prices will be the likely decider…
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=crude-oil-west-texas-intermediate&months=60
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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The whole KXL fiasco reminds me of politics in an old-fashioned banana republic. You pay, or you don't play.
Fortunately for the economy, the pipeline was economically irrelevant with current oil prices. Nixing it now - after the application was withdrawn - allows the POTUS to pay tribute to his silk-stocking contributors without offending the middle-class workers he purports to champion. I find the cynicism rather breathtaking.
John
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Me too, John...that was my point, exactly.
I'd like to give Obama the benefit of the doubt that there were other political or timing dynamics at work that resulted in this sequence of announcements, but either way, it's not very flattering to him.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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There's a political calculus in every policy decision. That's why it's known as politics.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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President Obama's denial of the permit at this point is pure theatrics ahead of a climate change conference.
DMT
Transparent posturing.
Meanwhile, the Chinese are doing their part.
A thick cloud of toxic smog which was more than 50 times the recommended health limits has blanketed northeast China, in what appears the worst bout of pollution in the notoriously hazy country on record.
Pollution is a major source of anger for many Chinese, and despite he country’s Communist leaders repeatedly saying that they are tackling it, large swathes of the country are regularly clouded in toxic haze.
Does the TPP include any emissions agreements?
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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I don't know EdT, does it really matter? The inclusion of that possible provision is as cheap and durable as the cardboard the crap comes in anyway right?
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alannamal
climber
B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2015 - 01:48pm PT
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Couchmaster, I wasn't saying we don't need energy. Obviously we do. But we don't need to continue to get the bulk of it from dirty fossil fuels. Because that's turning out so good now is it?
Also, how do you do that thing where you can put someone else's post in a box so people know what the hell you're referring to?
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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You mean like this?
While transparently posturing a politician injured multiple body parts.
You copy the passage and select the " tool and then you paste the passage between the [quotes]
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couchmaster
climber
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Alan, like TT says, when you post, there is a group of items right above the box you are typing in. One is a box with a quotation mark in it. You can either click that and paste in between, or you can just type [quote and [/quote. Note that the words both need the ] after the e, if I put it in there you won't see the whole thing which is [quote] and /quote with brackets.
It's the box right under the G in the word message. Photo of what it looks like:
Here's another thing that might help you if you don't know it. When you come back to revisit a topic, as it gets many multipages long. Just click on the number on the far right under the "msgs" column, not the title, to get to the end of the thread.
As far as Obama goes, this President has done much better than most of the other Presidents. We still don't have a comprehensive energy policy, but the choices they have made have been good, and that comes from the President picking good energy secretary's (now Munez). Competent, super smart knowledgeable on the subject guys, instead of stupid assed political hacks ie, Bill Clintons Bill Richardsons choice). So good for President Obama.
However, we are left with this, quote:
"In either case, the Canadians are now free to reroute the pipeline to the west coast and run tankers to China. None of those tankers will ever spill any of that sh#t into the ocean. But if they did, I'm sure the ecology of the ocean is much better able to handle it rather than a spill onto the dirt of the sensitive environments of Nebraska, Oklahoma or Iowa. So may I send my congrats on "stopping" (cough*rerouting*cough) the pipeline? Big win. Not. "
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alannamal
climber
B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2015 - 03:12pm PT
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run tankers to China.
Our newly elected PM has said no to tanker traffic on the west coast, so maybe time to start looking at renewables!
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 16, 2017 - 07:46pm PT
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dude that oil is ORGANIC. like, earth friendly.
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